[JESII]

The Shotlink numbers surprised me as well, I doubt you will find a player out there pulling out there three-iron from 199 with anything but a gale in their face. I guess the reasons for this have been explained already though.

My first-hand experiences as a player with the following approximate yardages:
Driver - 275 - 285
5 iron - 190
9 iron - 140
The below estimated comparisons are based on three years professional golf with four tournaments each on the Nationwide and PGA Tours and countless others on various mini-tours.
On the mini-tours I was in the 30th percentile for yardage
Nationwide tour - 50th percentile
PGA Tour - 75th percentile

What does this mean?

To me it means the better players put more effort into accuracy than distance. This however seems inconsistent with recent statements about the relative lack of correlation between accuracy and success on the PGA Tour.

[JESII]

To me it means the better players put more effort into accuracy than distance. This however seems inconsistent with recent statements about the relative lack of correlation between accuracy and success on the PGA Tour.

remember geometry?

Q.E.D.

Help me out here, I must be a little slow on the uptake.

[Brent Hutto]

Mr Sullivan,

I think people misinterpret comments like Vijay Singh's recent one about bombing away with driver even if you end up in the rough. If for Vijay hitting driver meant a spread of 50-60 yards with no real idea where the ball would end up that would not be his strategy.

He doesn't mean he's forgetting about accuracy to get the extra distance from the driver. He means exactly what he says...being in the rough rather than the fairway is not a reason to avoid the driver. He's planning a shot with the driver that is accurate enough to put the ball in a good spot, even if he can't guarantee a perfect lie in the fairway.

Would you interpret that comment similarly?

[JESII]

Mr Sullivan,


Would you interpret that comment similarly?

Yes.

[JESII]

Brent

I did not intend my one word response to end the conversation, I simply thought you were going to follow with a line of questioning. After rereading our posts, I don't change my yes answer, but I would ask you if you think Vijay is aiming for the rough.  

[Brent Hutto]

From what I can see on TV and from my limited experience watching college and club-pro level tournaments locally, it seems like on some holes players have a certain area that they think is favorable for the next shot and they are more concerned with getting the ball to that position than with the absolute difference between fairway and rough. So they might pick a line that brings into play an area with both fairway and rough.

I took Vijay's comments to mean that there was a place he could reach with a driver that was close enough and at the right angle that being there is a big payoff. So maybe he was looking at a spot with some fairway to hit but a risk of being in the rough instead. Or maybe in some cases he really is aiming at the rough. I'd imagine he really had at least a certain amount of fairway there to aim at but the "risk" of rough was preferable to the certainty of a harder shot by laying up.

I watch a few holes of a women's college tournament at my club yesterday. One girl hit a great approach shot from a bare lie under some trees (her tee shot almost found a lateral hazard lining the right side of the hole). She missed the fairway by 20 yards but her ball ended up well inside the two others who were playing from the fairway. The scorer sitting at that hole said the only birdie she'd seen all day had come from someone who'd driven the ball over in the woods. Because of the hole location and the wind (15mph and swirling a bit) it was just really hard to get the ball close from further left where the fairway was.

[JESII]

Brent

The angles you speak of are very important to these guys for the visual benefit more than the real benefit. They absolutely aim for the sides of the fairway that will give them the best look at the hole, but they never prefer the rough to the fairway without a physical obstruction between them and the hole.

Now, how does any of this relate to the topic of the higher level tours having players that hit the ball shorter than do the lower level tours? In referrencing the Vijay quote I was simply noting how it does not gel with my observations of the distance / accuracy ratio in professional golf.

[Doug Siebert]

The Shotlink numbers surprised me as well, I doubt you will find a player out there pulling out there three-iron from 199 with anything but a gale in their face. I guess the reasons for this have been explained already though.

My first-hand experiences as a player with the following approximate yardages:
Driver - 275 - 285
5 iron - 190
9 iron - 140
The below estimated comparisons are based on three years professional golf with four tournaments each on the Nationwide and PGA Tours and countless others on various mini-tours.
On the mini-tours I was in the 30th percentile for yardage
Nationwide tour - 50th percentile
PGA Tour - 75th percentile

What does this mean?

To me it means the better players put more effort into accuracy than distance. This however seems inconsistent with recent statements about the relative lack of correlation between accuracy and success on the PGA Tour.

Wow, that's interesting on several levels.  In particular, I'm surprised you were relatively shorter than your fellow competitors the higher the level of tour you are talking about.  I would have naively assumed that on the minors there are a lot of players who are just bombing it long, and joining the big show makes them learn some element of control.  I guess I got that impression from seeing the Nationwide guys driving longer than the PGA guys in the stats.

Also, the "more effort in accuracy than distance" thing doesn't conflict with what VJ said.  VJ was only talking about FIRs as being unimportant.  I don't think any golfer good enough to play in any tour would argue that accuracy with the irons is unimportant!

[JESII]

Doug

Maybe I was not clear, but your natural assumption was correct in regards to my relative length as compared to players at various levels. The Big Tour guys hit it shorter than the minitour guys and the Nationwide guys fall in between.

I think what Vijay means, similar to what Brent is saying, is that it's more important to be on the correct side of the golf hole than to be just anywhere in the fairway. What they are doing by aiming down one side or the other as opposed to the center is giving themselves a wider margin of for error.

Visual Hypo:

If you can make birdie from 20 yards into the right rough 3/10

And from the right first cut 4/10

And the right edge of the fairway 6/10

And the center of the fairway 4/10

And the left edge of the fairway 3/10

And the left first cut 1/10

And from 20 yards into the left rough never in your wildest dreams


Where are you going to aim?[/color]

The right side of the fairway obviously because you have 20 yards on either side to miss and have a realistic chance at birdie, and they feel they can get up and down for par from anywhere so very few drives take par out of the equation the way it does for you and I.

I know, hypotheticals are hypotheticals, but this is how they make their game plans.

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