[Patrick_Mucci]

Rick,

Why wouldn't a club want to screen off the outside views from the interior of the golf course ?

[Rick Shefchik]

Patrick,

I'm not saying they wouldn't. Obviously many clubs prefer their privacy. I'm saying it can be a trade-off: a sanctuary vs. the golf course as it was originally intended to be played.

My guess is that some clubs didn't anticipate the full impact of their choice.

[Scott Coan]

Patrick,

You whack that hedge and...

"The corridors of play have been opened up, the sunshine more available, air circulation better, the turf is healthier and the wind is more of factor when playing the golf course.

All benefits of a tree clearing program."

And your greens staff does not have to maintain an ornamental bush surrounding a tee.

Scott

[Patrick_Mucci]

Scott,

Patrick,

You whack that hedge and...

"The corridors of play have been opened up,

The corridors of play are unaffected, the base of the hedge is below the tee grade[/color]

the sunshine more available,

The tee faces west, hence the sun rising in the east and setting in the west exposes the tee to the sun for the entire day, without any shade hitting the tee.[/color]

air circulation better,

Prevailing winds are out of the East, and the hedges are relatively low, hence air circulation can't get substantively better.[/color]

the turf is healthier

Reread the above.
The turf can't get any healthier.[/color]

and the wind is more of factor when playing the golf course.
How is the wind a factor when the ball is sitting on a tee ?[/color]

All benefits of a tree clearing program."

All of which have nothing to do with the hedges on this particular tee.

How would you suggest that errant tee shots be prevented from hitting golfers on the adjacent practice putting green ?[/color]

And your greens staff does not have to maintain an ornamental bush surrounding a tee.

At most, it's a once a week pass with an auto trimmer and totally inconsequential with respect to labor costs.

The hedge serves as an effective barrier to errant tee shots, visual distractions and an attractive buffer from the nearby cart paths.[/color]

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Hole #6
Before

After

Hole #7
Before

After

[Kevin_Reilly]

#6 new is unfortunately the victim of that path and water dispensor (is that what it is) on the right.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Hole #8
Before

After

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kevin,

#6 new is unfortunately the victim of that path and water dispensor (is that what it is) on the right.

The cart path in the old # 6 was to the left, but not in the photo, as was the water cooler.
The path is mostly invisible to the golfer.

What would you have done with the cart path ?[/color]

[Kevin_Reilly]

I don't know, I've never been there and do not have more to work with than these photos.

My comment is more to do with the fact that the path is such an eyesore, that the photos of that one hole in particular could not be used in a "benefits of tree clearing" presentation as someone above mentioned.

Whether or not the path is visible to the golfer, I'll take your word for it since you have been there and I haven't.  In the picture though, it dominates the picture, which is unfortunate.

[Scott Coan]

Patrick,

You said

"The corridors of play are unaffected, the base of the hedge is below the tee grade"

and

"the hedges are relatively low, hence air circulation can't get substantively better."

but then

"the hedge serves as an effective barrier to errant tee shots, visual distractions and an attractive buffer from the nearby cart paths."

I have not personally seen the hedge but my opinion is that is serves no purpose other than being an ornament in some committee-persons long lost beautification program.  It would also funnel foot traffic over the same entry and exit points causing increased wear and tear.

It looks to me like one entire side of the hedge was already removed.  I think you'd be better off without the whole thing.  

It does provide a bit of a visual barrier to the cart path but you can still see the path if you are over 3 feet tall.  Where do you stop.  You could shade the cart path on tee# 6 with another hedge as well.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I don't know, I've never been there and do not have more to work with than these photos.

I'd suggest studying the photos more carefully before drawing conclusions.[/color]

My comment is more to do with the fact that the path is such an eyesore, that the photos of that one hole in particular could not be used in a "benefits of tree clearing" presentation as someone above mentioned.

Did you happen to notice where the picture was taken from ?
Behind the tee.
Did you happen to notice how the cart path only parallels the tee then disappears to the right.

If you can only see the cart path, immediately next to the tee, while standing on the tee, and it can't be seen as you look to the green, how is it an eyesore ?

Are you suggesting that cart paths be 25 yards removed from tees ?[/color]

Whether or not the path is visible to the golfer, I'll take your word for it since you have been there and I haven't.
Look at the picture.
Once it veers to the right at the end of the tee, can you see the cart path along the right side of the hole or at the green ?[/color]  

In the picture though, it dominates the picture, which is unfortunate.

That's more angle the then anything else.  Just like you couldn't see the cart path on the left in the old photo, it's not that it wasn't there, just that the angle didn't capture it.

Also, those brown mounds are now Spartina grass, eradicating the harsh look of the dark mulch and dirt.

You may want to look at some additional photos in Ran's review[/color]

[Patrick_Mucci]

Scott,

I have not personally seen the hedge but my opinion is that is serves no purpose other than being an ornament in some committee-persons long lost beautification program.
How can you say it serves no purpose if I've already told you that it serves as an effective barrier for errant tee shots for those on the practice putting green and range ?

It is highly functional.[/color]

It would also funnel foot traffic over the same entry and exit points causing increased wear and tear.

Foot traffic has access to the tee from four entry points, hence, no wear and tear exists.[/color]

It looks to me like one entire side of the hedge was already removed.  

No, the entire hedge remains, that's just an entry point at the rear of the tee[/color]

I think you'd be better off without the whole thing.
Would you assume liability if a tee shot should hit a golfer on the practice putting green or range ?[/color]  

It does provide a bit of a visual barrier to the cart path but you can still see the path if you are over 3 feet tall.  Where do you stop.  

You stop when the hedge has reached sufficient height to block errant tee shots.  There's a relationship between the tee grade and the height of the hedge, but, you knew that, right ?[/color]

You could shade the cart path on tee# 6 with another hedge as well.

Why, is there another practice putting green or range next to that tee ?[/color]

[Scott Coan]

Patrick,

Please explain to me where the hedge on the right side of the old picture has gone in the new picture.





Then please explain how this 2 foot hedge will shield any errant tee shots.

Thanks

[Patrick_Mucci]

Scott,

The hedge on the right hasn't gone anywhere, it's still there.
Only the angles have changed.

As to a two foot + hedge serving as a shield.
Take a look at the hedge,
Then notice how the land falls down away from the tee and hedge to a lower grade.
Now go back and look at the tee grade, the hedge and the lower grade to the left and right of the hedge.

Have you figured it out yet ?

If not, repeat the exercise until it comes to you.

The club is not fearful that errant drives will burrow underneath the tee, going subterrainian, then resurfacing and striking golfers on the adjacent putting green.

[Scott Coan]

Patrick,

I agree with you that all dwarfs on the putting green are completely protected by the hedge.  

[Kevin_Reilly]

Patrick, trust me, leave this photo out of a "benefits of tree clearing" presentation.  It would be like a plastic surgeon using before and after pictures of a pretty woman to show the benefits of a nose procedure...except in the "after" picture the woman has a cold sore on her lip...no one would notice the improved look of her nose.


Re-take the picture from the red or white tees and destroy this one.  But, I could be wrong.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kevin Reilly,

Take a closer look at the cart path, especially as it nears the water cooler.  Did you notice the path veering to the right ?
The 18th tee is adjacent to the 6th tee at a 90 degree angle.
That cart path services both tees and as such, width is needed in that area.  It looks fine despite your fixation with irrelevant observations.

The before and after photos depict what was and what is.

Scott Coan,

At 6'4" I can't see the tee from the putting green.
In addition, I can't see the lower half of a golfer's body as they tee off on # 1.  The hedge serves a vital function, despite your inability to grasp the concept.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Jesus Christ Pat will you quit egging Scott on.  You know the place cold.  You have been there for years, probably decades and you keep letting him banter with you about how the place really is.  I swear to God you have people post some brilliant stuff and it goes no where then you have a discussion go on for pages about a hedge.  Scott you are probably a nice guy whom I will meet some day and enjoy your company, but for godsakes will you shut the fuck up and maybe learn something. This is just unfucking believeable.And I am not sorry for my rant ,  yet...

Oh now I find I post the fuck word and the software bleaps it well I'll be fucked, this is unfucking believable again, fuck, fuck, fuck!!!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kelly Blake Moran,

I was enjoying listening to Scott and Kevin's astute analysis and wise words and having a little fun.

If nothing else it demonstrates that photos alone don't tell the entire story, especially if you don't know how to thoroughly examine them.

More pictures will be posted.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

God help us!  I think I may pass on my coffee and have a bloody mary instead.  Fuck Fuck Fuck

Man that software is good

oops those words and phrases got through, sorry!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Hole #9
Before

After



Hole #10
Before


After



Hole #11
Before

After


Hole #14
Before


After

[Mark_Guiniven]

Odd photos given the subject of this thread.

The '10th old' looks decent. That's about it.

[James Bennett]

Great photo's.  So, Patrick Mucci is 6' 4'' tall.  Cripes!  I've just had a vision.  Given the green bold print that he sometimes uses, Patrick might be a 'jolly green giant'. (I'm only 6' 1").

Looks like a great rejuvenation of an old girlfriend.  The change in views because of the additional light and the removal of the 'wallpaper' along the fairways is terrific.

Removing wallpaper can also expose some crack's, or some crows feet on the old girlfriend.  Some people have commented negatively on some aspects of the photo's. I guess it depends on what you want to look at - do you see the great things now exposed, or the lesser things that were previosuly hidden and less obvious?  

 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jame Bennett,

I'd encourage you to go to the courses by country and read Ran's write up of Boca Rio.

If you look at the photo of the old 14th you'll see a stand of trees to the right.  Those trees remain, but, they're on an island in the middel of a lake.  The changes were dramatic.
And despite what the detractors, who have never seen the golf course, say, it's a spectacular golf course that is fortunate to have the consumate green superintendent.

More pictures will follow.

Mark Guiniven,

You might have missed the removal of trees in the photos.
Read Ran's write up, then let me know what you think.

Not that I care, but, I'm just trying to be polite.

[James Bennett]

Patrick

thanks for the link to Boca Rio.  I've quickly scanned it for now.  The method of disposing of the trees, and the types of trees removed was particularly interesting.

About 10 months ago, I saw some of the work that Mike Clayton's grouop has been involved with in Melbourne.  Some dense tee-tree was removed, allowing the original heathland plants to return, and the air, light and views from hole to hole to return.  Particular examples I saw were at Peninsula North and Spring Valley.

We are in the midst of Master Plan discussions at our club (with Mike Clayton) at present.  A member information night is coming up in a fortnight.  

We have significant overplanting of many trees (IMO), including pinus radiata and cyrpress pine (IMO) at very close spacings.  We also have some melaleuca (not my favourite).  Don't know what an Australian Pine is though?  Our plan includes possible vegetation strategies, so options for disposing of such trees such as Boca Rio are useful to consider.  The other tree management papers on this site have also been useful.

Whether we proceed with the Plan will be determined over the coming months.  Exciting is one word to describe the experience.   ;DThere are a variety of emotions involved.

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