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Jason Henham

Chevy Chase Club
« on: March 26, 2002, 05:55:32 AM »
Does any of the Donald Ross aficionados know how close to his original design the Chevy Chase Club in Maryland is? I'm living in the DC area at the moment and was wondering whether the course is worth a visit.

Thanks,

Jason
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Craig Disher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2002, 06:13:58 AM »
Arthur Hills built a completely new course on the site although I believe the routing is close to the original. There wasn't much of Ross left anyway. Here's a link to a recent aerial

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?mapdata=5SWr5yNjh4%252birp%252bsqwthXwq4yV939qRkOmCfCplExciLQvHd4tkTFbWRJBpRrLOHdUJJ7f2Pi7c66cFZ42Acgl7z5PysbtOQd6SMsMP1JdQ
%252bCn7OgBCmZJjiVR2qqcP5rLzueQVNS7N10FpqPo6QHffm7DTFORmPcpYc0dUge3lM2x2YofEWMv9
ApZvfcUN%252bgkdqEGNfSX6tJhHUVkPpxZMbWeBQ7e6fGZMcfPeNup8zyy6lzDPl8ZKZ1W4G8fgLi89
W3hvCr6%252fzBsSRzN%252fcqnKZj%252fxTMDUbKX07bxIw71c%253d&click=center&m
ap.x=251&map.y=313

Ross was very active in the DC area but all of his work is gone, sad to say. The only remnant is Washington G&CC which because of its small area couldn't change his routing. It's a wonderful course and would be worth a look.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2002, 06:17:25 AM »
Craig,
    There's often a problem in cutting-and-pasting long links into this DG, so for some reason the links get broken up and thus don't work.  They need to be edited like this:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?mapdata=5SWr5yNjh4%252birp%252bsqwthXwq4yV939qRkOmCfCplExciLQvHd4tkTFbWRJBpRrLOHdUJJ7f2Pi7c66cFZ42Acgl7z5PysbtOQd6SMsMP1JdQ
%252bCn7OgBCmZJjiVR2qqcP5rLzueQVNS7N10FpqPo6QHffm7DTFORmPcpYc0dUge3lM2x2YofEWMv9
ApZvfcUN%252bgkdqEGNfSX6tJhHUVkPpxZMbWeBQ7e6fGZMcfPeNup8zyy6lzDPl8ZKZ1W4G8fgLi89
W3hvCr6%252fzBsSRzN%252fcqnKZj%252fxTMDUbKX07bxIw71c%253d&click=center&map.x=251
&map.y=313



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:03 PM by -1 »

Tom Macwood (Guest)

Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2002, 10:01:29 AM »
Jason
I'm not an expert on the history of Chevy Chase, but I recall Klein refering to CCC as a Ross revision of an existing course and done very early in his career (1910?). I do know Alison revised the course in 1923 and some of his changes are still apparent, as are some of the Ross features that he retained. But it does appear to be a complete hodge podge of styles, I think everyone and his brother has had a crack at this course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2002, 10:32:38 AM »
I am fairly confident that Tom is right. This course was remodeled by Ross, which I think was equivalent to a new course in the scale of its remodeling. Alison did work to it in the 20s, and the Art Hills bulldozed it, keeping only the routing.

What's strange to me is that this type of work was undertaken. I can't remember what the course looked like, but I assume this must have been a membership choice to redesign. Art Hills seems to have at least done a decent job at Siwanoy, I wonder why he wasn't permitted to attempt the same at CCC.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Craig Disher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2002, 01:42:13 PM »
CCC built 6 rough holes in 1895 but by 1898, nine had been built on part of the land the club now uses. In 1909, the club purchased land which expanded the property to its present size and hired Ross. His course opened in 1910. Colt & Alison modified the course, and more recently Ed Ault tweaked it as well (there's hardly a course in the area that didn't use his services to some degree). †I think Ross's original plan is at the Tuft's Archives in Pinehurst and I've seen a 30s aerial of the course - presumably with Colt's modifications. That would be an interesting comparison.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2002, 01:47:39 PM »
Scott Burroughs, could you move the cursor over a mile or so and post the aerial of Columbia?  I love that course!  Great collection of fun holes on very interesting terrain.
Thanks for doing so if possible -
Bill McBride
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2002, 02:03:34 PM »
Didn't Ault/Clark screw that one up too? (Columbia). That's probably even more of a tragedy, seeing as how Travis courses are rarer than Ross ones.

Didn't there used to be a "hell's half-acre" type bunker? Looking at the overhead, you can tell this course has been changed, "The Old Man" would never build a course with so few bunkers, and they would be in the line of play.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2002, 02:04:39 PM »
oh sorry - here it is (you'll have to scroll down to get the bottom holes)

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?pan=n&mapdata=5SWr5yNjh4%2fjQSzDvge6dGg7NXjHhj4LnfUOoA2aG59VeWV%2fIZgur1qqdjsDdi%2fnPSQ5yyLMh1BH6StZXPuBVVcQV8FUN5CJ%2fP0rZ
cbw8ECCo5dtJywGsr2zYLwI%2bx8fjR3ZPnAhD2%2bdllD0NfYkfeQPmhH6eTWQImgWwInwi%2bdHEyt
HApsh8oAfeo6AH0Sk1lYb8OPDCw0GTWAC6S5zPrAcCCVh82NWYB67TGndrCaz3x3IyflS%2fuXi%2f6%
2f1ZWsdvxQv%2faW0Dw1etrnzHlXHIRAN016BO%2fiwiL%2fpxuAJF7PfRdd7tr45Y5g7CdkPrnlq53G
5%2fZnYbvudUSW3jlJ%2fm68xxlQkpYtilDp3FJIHadqDONuXkrwPHGTsZTADYuHD
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2002, 02:42:05 PM »
Inadvertent duplicate here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:03 PM by -1 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2002, 02:44:02 PM »
bill - it's in the post above your last one.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Columbia CC
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2002, 02:53:45 PM »
SPDB, thanks for that photo. †Reminds me how much I love playing that course! † What a nice variety of holes - solid short par 4's like #2, #3, and # 17 (!), good long par 4's like #6 and # 18, good par 3's like #16 over the pond and # 14 (I think) over the ravine. †The Hell's half Acre bunker was, I understand, on the sixth hole, which is tough enough as it lies today, 440 yards with OB left, hillside right, and the small green a long way down there. †That's followed by a really nice short par 4 and downhill par 3 Short hole, and then a series of very tough long par 4's. †The finish of blind short par 4 17th and longish par 4 up to the clubhouse 18th is very entertaining. †I think Clark / Ault must have done a good job retaining the original feel of Columbia because it still reeks of antiquity, in the nicest possible way!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:03 PM by -1 »

Jason Henham

Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2002, 02:31:30 PM »
Thanks for the input and the pics everyone.

So, even though a few people have had a hand in what remains at Chevy Chase, the course is still worth a look?

Jason
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Will Smith

Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2002, 06:13:34 AM »
Chevy Chase is defenitely worth a look. Hills did not do a complete redesign.  He did a very good restoration/renovation. The first thing he did was an aggressive tree cutting program, really opening up the course making it really fun to play. The greens roll true and fast. there is little undulation but all are pitched in an interesting and challenging manner. The very first green runs away from the line of play. The courese is par 70, 6,800 yards. Its a member's course and more enjoyable (not as difficult) than Congressional. The reports are right though, everybody and their mother has had a crack at Chevey Chase.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ChasLawler

Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2003, 11:35:51 AM »
Being relatively new to ths forum, I was looking back through some of the old posts, and found this thread about Chevy Chase Club.

Chevy Chase Club is a wonderful layout, and IMO more than holds it's own with Congressional (Blue) and Columbia CCin the DC area.

I don't know too much about it from before Arthur Hills put his stamp on it, but I do know that when Hills bulldozed the site, he kept the original routing, and replaced every blade of grass on the course with bent. I believe they may have alternated nines as well. The current 9th hole is a 249 yard par 3 which usually plays into a breeze. If I recall correctly there were quite a few members who weren't ecstatic about that as the finishing hole.

The superintendent does a wonderful job maintaining the course. The fairways are immaculate, and CCC consistently has the fastest and smoothest greens in the DC area - or at least that's what me buddy tells me. They're certainly the fastest greens I've putted on. The greens have a lot of subtle undulation to them, and it's not uncommon to have a 3 footer for par turn into a 20 footer coming back for bogey.

Probably the best thing about the club is that they do not allow carts - walking is mandatory unless you are 70 and older or have a note from your doctor. So there's not a whole lot of concrete or ashalt on the course.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

MBL

Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2003, 12:44:19 PM »
Played it over the weekend and was quite impressed.  After weeks (months?) of rain in the DC area, the greens were firm and true, fairways damp but not soggy.  Clearly, the supt deserves accolades.

That said, I was hoping to see a bit of Ross there, but outside of the lack of framing around the greens, he did not appear to be in residence.  However, the feel of the club from the staff in the golf shop to the 'walking only' rule, made me feel as if Bobby Jones was going to step around a corner at any minute.  

Made for a very enjoyable morning.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2003, 01:16:29 PM »
MB - Not surprising you didn't see any Ross there, it has been overdone a number of times, by Alison, Ault and most recently
Art Hills whose work was substantial.

Barely a shred of ross left there, if at all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2003, 01:17:03 PM »
great Country Club, though. how many can claim a hockey rink?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

T_MacWood

Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2003, 05:01:46 PM »
Not so long ago I spoke with a former superitendant at Chevy Chase who was involved in an investigation into the course's history. It turned out the course dated back to the turn of the century and in 1911 they called in Ross to advise on their existing golf course. Very earlier in his design career Ross spent one day at the course, made some recommendations and then moved on. Alison completely redesigned the golf course in the early 20's, however the club's long time (over 3 decades) greenskeeper - a former Ross hand - promoted the idea the course was a Ross. As far as I know Ross never claimed or took credit for any work at CCC.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2003, 03:09:16 AM »
Rhod McEwen Books in Aberdeen has the original drawings by Alison for sale at around £3000. †I wish I had that sort of money.

A Series of 16 Original Plans Drawn by C H Alison for Chevy Chase G C c1920ís nine actual sheets in toto, gridlines to one side and blank to verso
* Contained in the original green wallet with Alisonís handwritten label to front ĎChevy Chase Club/Report...16 plans relating to various holesí, five sheets have writing and plans to both sides, other four have writing and plans to one side, first sheet entitled General Notes, the next three entitled Various (with 16 plans), and the last five are detailed plans for 3rd, 6th, 7th, 17th and 18th holes respectively, original architectural plans from this period are scarce and these are a wonderful example of primary source material in the field by one of the pre-eminent architects of his day, and partner of Harry Colt [Ref:1606]


Brian
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:06 PM by -1 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Sean Remington (SBR)

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2003, 10:08:20 AM »
 I worked at CCC from 1983-2000.  Tom is correct that CCC is not an original Ross design.  Ross only made a visit and recommended changes to an exsisting course in 1910.  Alison was hired to build a NEW golf course in 1921.  His course took three years to finish and opened in 1924.  Chevy Chase Club employed Dick Watson as Greenkeeper from 1932 - 1964.  He was from Scotland originally and came to the states to build courses for Ross.  It was fairly well excepted that Mr. Watson used his extensive construction experience during his 32 years in charge of the property.  Photographs show changes but none were on a large scale.  This is Alison's routing.
  The other architects credited with work at CCC did not have a real big impact and the routing stayed the same until 1996 -1998 when Mr. Hills was hired.  The Club dictated a routing change as they wanted to build a new sports center where the original tenth green was.  Other Club driven issues were the need for imporved practice facilities and the desire to create an on site irrigation source.  The Club also wanted to return the course to a look and feel of the classical era from witch it originated.  It basically came down to a desire to build a completely new golf course that would look mature very quickly.  From what said in an earlier post this was accomplised.  Mr. Hills was very willing and happy to leave CCC with it's exsisting character and feel.  He was able to do this even though the clubs goals required him to build a new par 3 hole, three other greens in new locatons, a 3.2 acre lake and a new practice facility that is one of the best in the area.
    There are two books of the CCC history. One by Lynam and most recently by Bob Thompson in 1992 for the centenial.  CCC is a wonderful country club with a great history.  Don't pass up a chance to play here, if you get it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

MBL

Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2003, 12:25:28 PM »
SBR-
Thanks very much for the input.  Your contribution - enabling others to learn about an historic spot - is just exactly what makes GCA such a great site!  Thanks again,
-MBL
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Sean Remington (SBR)

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chevy Chase Club
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2003, 08:58:10 AM »
MBL -

   My pleasure.  GCS is great and I have learned so much from lurking around.  I was happy to finally see a topic I actually knew something about.  Thanks to you and everyone else who make GCS such an interesting site.

Reguards,
SBR
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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