[Brian_Gracely]

Watching all these threads about tsumanis, flood, mudslides, coastal erosion and all the other spankings that Mother Nature chooses to give us, I'm wondering why more people aren't making an investment in their future ability to play links-like courses and joining these clubs in NE, CO, SD, etc.  

Sure, I understand the argument about them being remote, distant, inaccessible, etc., But considering the riskiness of alternatives, I'm surprised some of them haven't tried to pull together a plan to find less than super-wealthy investors (ie. late-30 through early-50s golfers) that might want to be out there in the future.  Sort of the CCFAD concept, but for a lifetime of one-week trips instead of risking the dollar value in the UK, or coastal erosion, etc..

I think there is a market concept being missed here...(although my concept might be completely the wrong one)

[Mike Hendren]

Interval membership.  Sounds so much better than "time share."  

Honestly Brian,  would members of such clubs really like bozo's like me traipsing around the property one week a year?
Never, never let the Hee Haw Gang into your club.  You think Druid Hills has problems!

Mike
Less than super-wealthy
Late 30's through early 50's.

[JakaB]

Both of you guys play anywhere you want in the country without the need to bother with monthlies or intitiation fees....Why would anyone with over a thousand posts on this site go to the expense of joining someplace over 200 miles from home when unlimited access is more the norm than a problem.

[Brian_Gracely]

Honestly Brian,  would the members at those clubs really like bozo's like me traipsing around the property one week a year?
Never, never let the Hee Haw Gang into your club.  You think Druid Hills has problems!

Mike,

I don't know any of those members, so I'm not going to assume I understand them.  

But I think it's an interesting angle to explore.  The Muirfields, Prestwicks, R&As of the world don't want the Hee Haw Gang in their clubhouse when they are having tea, but they gladly allow them to visit on occasion to keep their costs down to very reasonable levels.  Would it completely unreasonable to think that the members might like to spend less money to be a full-member at those clubs, considering they don't get there as often as their local clubs?  

[Kevin_Reilly]

How low would the intiation and annual fees need to be in order for it to work for the group you described?  Interval ownership works with airplanes and real estate, so I imagine that it could be extended to a golf club, but I would think that most wanting to join a golf "club" don't want to share it with a large number of other owners.

Here is how the interval economics might work....

22 weeks of play
50-60 golfers per day (max amount to feel like a SHGC-type "club")
1,200 weekly intervals available

assuming that all want to bring 3 guests, that means 300 foursomes.

Net net, I think the economics of "interval" ownership would look more and more like regular ownership.  For example, how much cheaper would a timeshare ownership be than Ballyneal at $35k....$20k?  Annual fees would be similar, as timeshares charge maintenance fees as well.

Maybe my analysis is off (back of the envelope), but I'd rather pay $35k to join Ballyneal than to join the "Sheraton at Dismal River"  

[Tyler Kearns]

$$$

[Tony_Chapman]

$$$

I find this odd, being that Sand Hills has a waiting list at the moment.

[Tony_Chapman]

Both of you guys play anywhere you want in the country without the need to bother with monthlies or intitiation fees....Why would anyone with over a thousand posts on this site go to the expense of joining someplace over 200 miles from home when unlimited access is more the norm than a problem.

Geee...from this website, I have gained access to Raleigh Country Club. I guess that must be the reason.

[JakaB]

Tony,

You don't want to know the list of courses Brian and Mike have played in the last two years....and only one of them is a rater and neither is a Lowman.   Next time you come to Southern Indiana, Illinois or Missouri let me know....I'll fill your card right up...

[JakaB]

Brian,

I was thrilled to get to play Athens CC....even the food was perfect.......One thing about this thread that has caught my attention is that besides the obvious minimum of $1,000,000 per year that rater comps suck out of the golf community....a guy has to wonder how many national memberships go unsold because of having 1000 of the most serious golfers in the country a big ole free pass....the shame of it all...

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I spent the first 6 months after I took the Bar exam doing title work to save money to open my practice in SW North Dakota and NW South Dakota and Easter Montana. In the days of Johnny Carson he did a skit where he played a farmer from Nebraska. The outfit was a hat with a red ball on top. The farmer was a bumpkin in every sense of the word. I would say 70% of the people I met and I might add I was only meeting landowners and professionals, looked and acted like the Carson character. It took a week for the Sunday Minniapolis paper to get to me on the train. The mayor, chief judge and clerk of court(one person) for one county did not have a college education. I loved the Badlands and the wide open spaces but OMG I cannot immagine that area being my summer home each year. I think those clubs are for the jet in and out crowd. It would shock me for there to  be a density of projects that would allow for qualty of life offsite like you find in the mountain projects further west.

[Brian_Gracely]

Shivas,

Considering that you worry quite a bit about amateur status, how do you justify the amateur status of raters that accept a large value of comp'd rounds?  

[Mike_Sweeney]

I think there were openings at remote Fishers and Shinnecock in the 1970's. It took something like 50 and 70 years respectively to fill out the memberships.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Brian Gracely,

In part, because you just don't decide to play them one morning and plan to be home in the afternoon.

They are "destinations" not conveniences, and certainly not spontaneous choices.  They require effort, planning, time, scheduling and money.

Those are pretty good impediments.

[Tom_Doak]

Crystal Downs' membership limit of 300 was first reached about 1990.

[Joe Hancock]

Anybody who's seen me play knows that the latter will never cause me to lose amateur status....

Dave,

Don't be so sure. There is the possibility of putting a beer-induced, silky smooth stroke on one of those fifty footers for 10k at a fund raiser event.

Joe

p.s. I get my amatuer status back this year....

[Jason McNamara]

$$$

I find this odd, being that Sand Hills has a waiting list at the moment.

Tony,

Would you happen to know to what extent (if any) the number of applicants was driven by the course's recognition as a Top 100 course?

SB might be a great course (haven't played it or Sand Hills), and Ballyneal and the Prairie Club have amazing potential.  But it is a case where the really strong demand happens only if/when the course cracks some 'best of' list?

Dismal River will work because it's Nicklaus, and because it's immediately adjacent to Sand Hills.  (Your buddy's already at Sand Hills, you grab a membership at DR...)

Jason

[Doug Siebert]

Since I live in Iowa, these "inaccessible" courses are more reasonable for me, since they are within a day's driving distance and I could get a day and a half worth of golf out of a time period as short as a three day weekend for not much money.  If I was a member of SH, I'd be doing this several times a year (BTW, just curious, anyone know how much SH is and how much it costs to get on the waiting list?)

So believe me, I've been thinking about this a lot.  I'm not a member of any club now, and since there's only one course anywhere in the area worth being a member of (Cedar Rapids Country Club, a very nice Ross a bit more than a half hour away) I don't really have many options.  But really I prefer doing what I do now, and playing an assortment of courses that aren't as much of a haul.

For me the "rating" isn't so much important as how good it is.  I haven't played any of the courses being mentioned, but SH certainly sounds like a wonderful place.  Its too bad it is rated so highly, I'm sure there must be some members there who just do it to impress their buddies that they belong to a course in the top 10, but when they bring their buddies out are probably bitching about the super needing to crank up the sprinklers a bit!  You know, the same ones who complain about how brown TOC is and wonder what the big deal is about it....but they play it anyway just so they can say they did.

Oh, as far as Johnny Carson, he was born in western Iowa near the Nebraska border, so that's probably why his impressions of Nebraskans were so good

[Jason Hines]

I am starting to get a bad memory in life, but wasn’t SH membership full before any of the top rankings came out?  I know they had critical acclaim prior to being ranked number one that sure helped sell memberships.  Someone might be able to confirm, but the last I read, the majority of members at SH are those of us that have red balls on our hats.  ( the ball on my hat is actually blue  )

Does anyone know the actual status of memberships of these clubs?  Are they having any trouble?

The interesting thing I would like to know is how much extra revenue is projected from the hunting and lodging of SB, DR and Ballyneal?  I imagine these amenities add another facet and several more months of revenue to the clubs income statement.  

Just curious.

Jason

[Buck Wolter]

Doug-
Has anyone tried to answer the question under your name?

My guess is that all of them are the 2nd best school in their state!

Buck

[Larry_Keltto]

I joined Ballyneal. It's already been tremendous fun.

[Doug Siebert]

Doug-
Has anyone tried to answer the question under your name?

My guess is that all of them are the 2nd best school in their state!

Buck

Very funny...

Only four schools to have finished in the top 10 last three years in a row -- though USC certainly seems to have been a cut above the rest during that time and probably this fall as well since they are getting pretty much their entire offense back!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I listened to the hawkeyes replays each sat night on the way home from the LSU game as a little boy. The hawks sucked back then but it was fun and became a tradition on the long 4 hour drive home. I enjoyed the bowl game this year somewhat less. lol

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