[JakaB]

Dick,

I thought you might enjoy this review of Wild Horse from www.1golf.com ..note what I highlighted...my $5 course is for everybody..

Golf Course Location-Wild Horse Golf Club is located just north of Gothenburg, Nebraska on Highway 47 and then west.

Golf Course Description-Wild Horse Golf Club is an 18 hole public course. 1999 is the first year this course has been opened and it is in wonderful shape. It is a links course with thick, thick native grasses as real penalties on nearly each and every shot. The fairways are mostly wide enough, but lots of virgin sandhill sand traps both near the greens and at those strategic places in the fairways help to increase your handicap.

The course is par 72 and measures 6,805 from the gold tees to 4,688 from the green tees.

Tee boxes are marked with horse shoes. Believe me... you will appreciate any luck you can get from those shoes. Course rating is 73.0 from the gold to 66.3 from the silver tees. Slope is 125 from the gold and 108 from the green.

This course is not for everybody. If you are a beginner, you could get frustrated at Wild Horse. Balls can be lost at the drop of a bad tee shot. Even if you see where it went your chances of finding your ball in the thick rough is slim.

The large brick clubhouse is to be completed late in 1999.

Course Conditions-For the first year opened, Wild Horse has developed into a great golf course. The greens are large and lightning fast. Mark my word... this course will be on the Golf Digest's best golf courses list in the future.

Uniqueness of this course-The uniqueness of Wild Horse is its virgin sandhills beauty. The sand traps are "blow-outs" and the native grasses are a cattlemens delight!!

Other Local Attractions-If you golf the Sandhills Golf Club in Mullen you must not leave Nebraska without driving less than 100 miles south to Gothenburg and enjoy a round at Wild Horse.

Update-September 2002

We returned to Wild Horse Golf Club. What a beautiful matured golf course. The fairways are in great shape. If you land in the fairway you are treated to a much longer drive that you expected with a great roll.

The greens are lightning fast. You must land in front of the green and roll the ball up to the flag.

The golf excursion to Wild Horse Golf Club is to become an annual event.

[RJ_Daley]

This course is not for everybody. If you are a beginner, you could get frustrated at Wild Horse. Balls can be lost at the drop of a bad tee shot. Even if you see where it went your chances of finding your ball in the thick rough is slim.

John,

Ask anyone on this entire GCA discussion group that actually played WH, and see if they agree with the above quote.  Outside of a few isolated areas of rough, I am telling you if you saw approximately where your ball landed in the rough at WH, your chances of finding it (if you aren't a totally blind Kiwi) are about 90 or >% you will not only find it in less than 2-3 minutes, but should be able to advance it.  As for everyone being able to play it, I am here to say that forward tees at WH offer the hackingest of players a chance to have a very enjoyable round.  

[JakaB]

Dick,

Go to www.1golf.com and read the many reviews of the Nebraska and Dakota courses...these guys need to be a part of GCA....They are the Matt Wards of the sand hills...who can argue with good hard field work..

[mike_beene]

it's been a while since I played it,but Pine Dunes in east Texas might qualify.Not to plead total ignorance,but is Wild Horse the course that the guys who sometimes work for Coore did?Seems like they were doing a Nebraska course when they did our renovation.

[Brad Swanson]

Brad,

I have just been informed that the Scarlet Course at Ohio State has been put on the 100 top twenty courses better than Wild Horse....watta you think about that..

John,
   Unfortunately my new professor position here emphasizes obtaining research grant money more than improving my declining golf skills, so I have to admit I have yet to play it and cannot yet comment.  It is cheaper to play than Wild Horse (for faculty and students at least).

Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[JakaB]

Brad,

That is some funny stuff that you haven't played the Scarlet....I'm going to propose the Warren Course at Notre Dame just cause C&C did it....the study of their strategic template at around $30 is good enough to make the list...I couldn't believe how the first hole was a near duplicate of Cuscowilla....and that is a good thing at that price.

note: College courses are evaluated at the Faculty and Student prices just like Bethpage and other munis are on the list because of resident pricing....I was dissapointed in the high cost of Stanford so it is off..

[Tony_Chapman]

Dick,

Go to www.1golf.com and read the many reviews of the Nebraska and Dakota courses...these guys need to be a part of GCA....They are the Matt Wards of the sand hills...who can argue with good hard field work..

John - I shudder to answer what you wrote about this guy who lives in a small town and has review every small town course in our state. To say the guy has a clue, would be stretching it a bit.

The guy has "reviewed" 51 golf courses in the state. Only 13 even have 18 holes. If, out of all the courses, he has played he could pick the 18 best - 14 of them would be from WH.

[George Pazin]

Not to plead total ignorance,but is Wild Horse the course that the guys who sometimes work for Coore did?Seems like they were doing a Nebraska course when they did our renovation.

Yes, Mike, that's the course. There is a wonderful piece on it in the My Home Course section written by Dick Daley. There is also a profile of a Texas course designed and built by the Bunker Hill guys in the Courses By Architect/By Country sections.

Great post on #49, Dick - that's why many of us find the ratings/rankings game silly.

BTW, one of the earliest mentions on this site of Wild Horse was by Tom Doak, stating that he felt it was the best course built that year - '99 - and I think even that it was one of the best courses built in the 5 years leading up to that. And I don't think Tom D is simply overenamored with hairy bunkers.

[Tom Renli]

Two more I will throw out, might be a strech:

Wilmington Muni - sand based surface, Ross

Swope Park - Kansas City Tillinghast muni, hosting a 2005 USGA event

Both less than $30 peak, non resident.

Thanks, Tom

[JakaB]

Putting a list like this together is hard work....I really feel for Brad and Ron....so far we have:

Oak Glen (Stoy)
Rustic Canyon
Bethpage Black
Bethpage Red
Tabacco Road
Clearcrest
Oak Hollow
Black Mesa
Pinion Hills
Lakota Ranch
Devils Thumb
Old Works
Southern Pines
The Rawls Course
Cape Arundel
Red Rock
Apache Stronghold
Trophy Club
Rock Hollow
Purgatory
Scarlet
Harrison Hills
Diamond Springs
Warren Course

76 trombones to go.....

as I typed two more arrived

Wilmington Muni
Swope Park

We are past half way half way there....

[George Pazin]

So I guess the criteria is now simply that someone said a course was better or a better deal? Wonderfully scientific analysis - I wonder why Brad Klein and Ron Whitten didn't simply rank courses this way - the heck with actually trying to rate, let's just simply throw out names of courses with no supporting evidence other than "I think it's better".

[JakaB]

George,

Don't try to hijack this wonderful thread that just might open some eyes and doors for people who thing $30 is half a days work or an upgrade on their kids coat....but...Last time I played with a rater from either Golf Digest or Golfweek they were people with opinions....not wizards or gurus...just people very much like the ones who have provided their opinions on this thread.   If you recall I originally said there were 20 courses better than Wild Horse but I would come up with a list of one hundred and then ruin my day by cutting it down....I'm even leaning withthe thought of The 100 Top Twenty Affordable Courses list being an official BBGE event....which explains why I have not nominated any of my brothers courses...I just can't see through the love to get a clear enough picture..kind of a shame because the new one in Wyoming would be a dead lock winner...

[Joe Hancock]

So I guess the criteria is now simply that someone said a course was better or a better deal? Wonderfully scientific analysis - I wonder why Brad Klein and Ron Whitten didn't simply rank courses this way - the heck with actually trying to rate, let's just simply throw out names of courses with no supporting evidence other than "I think it's better".

George,

Isn't this the very reason there is always controversy with Ratings? There isn't anything "scientific" about what is or isn't good. Cheaper is fairly easy to determine, but "good" is awfully subjective when it comes to judging golf courses. We tend to think we know best here on GCA.com. The truth is there are a lot of people who don't like the same types of courses as the GCA.com party line. Are they wrong? Are they uninformed? Are they just plain stupid?

I listen to a lot of jazz, but I have no musical knowledge or training. When I'm asked what I like about the music I listen to, it's just because I like it, not because I've made a passionate pursuit of knowing why I like it. However, I know I like synchopation....

You're right in that this group on GCA.com knows enough to qualify their answers...or should be able to.

Joe

[JakaB]

I'm putting Pajaro on the list.....Played in the pouring rain using persimmons and blades with no umbrella and it still was a perfect day.  The super at Wild Horse couldn't carry Pete's jock strap and the breakfast was unbelievable....most people wouldn't play it on a trip to Pebble...but they should and if they did it would beat out WH on most lists.

73 to go...

[JakaB]

I just saw Pete L's name and remembered Balboa Park....Sam Snead, Ernie Els coming of age and a working mans 18th at Pebble...

72 and we are done..

[Matt_Ward]

George P:

I just don't "throw out names of courses with no supporting evidence other than "I think it's better"."

I have personally played the ones I would say are the equal of Wild Horse -- even though I have tremendous respect for what the course in Gothenburg is about.

I'd be happy to do a course comparsion / hole-by-hole, whatever it takes. To simply think I'm doing the elementary sandbox analysis of "my toy is better than yours" is really disingenuous on your part.

Mike C:

You missed my point entirely. Wild Horse gets tremenous ink because it happens to be the poster child of what public golf can be about. I don't doubt it has a number of unique and worthwhile attributes. I also didn't attempt to minimize the unqiue topography that makes such a drive from Denver or Lincoln so interesting as you come to Gothenburg.

However, to be fair ...

Wild Horse's relative isolation causes much of the fascination.

It also happens to be in the same "neck of the woods" of the best modern course, I believe, since 1960 -- Sand Hills. Spillover can be a positive force -- see Maidstone as an example because of its location next to Shinnecock and NGLA. Ditto Spyglass with Pebble and Cypress.

I stand by what I said -- the width of the holes is indeed a plus. Ditto the manner by which the wind whips through the property. Ditto the wild and wooly nature of many of the unique bunkers created by Axland & Proctor. Mother nature --more so than the actual design / totality of the holes, is the underlying force at work.

Yet ...

The totality of the holes -- from a strategic aspect are not at the same level as such places as Pinon Hills, Black Mesa, Rustic Canyon, The Trophy Club, Red Rock or Devil's Thumb, to name just a few. Each of the aforementioned places gets far less ink than Wild Horse and much of that stems from the ignorance of the masses and some of the posters here on GCA. Again -- I will state this before the barking dogs begin to yelp -- Wild Horse does have a number of solid holes but not for the consistency / totality of the other courses I just mentioned IMHO.

The thing most people fail to grasp is that the portoflio of courses they can muster for comparison purposes is rather limited and therefore when they do in fact play Wild Horse it becomes the "standard" that supposedly others can't touch. In esence -- the next visiting person ratifies what the previous person found and so forth and so on. I salute Wild Horse and I see that as a good thing -- but the reality is that people fixate on one course and fail to supplement their homework with visits to other just as deserving -- more deserving actually -- other layouts in the USA. I credit Wild Horse for kicking the ball off the cliff but for people to simply assume it's the be-all / end-all is a testament to the inability of others to travel and see other worthwhile candidates.

Clearly, it's my opinion and I'll let it go at that.

Wild Horse is a tremendous layout -- just because I have named other courses that I believe offer more comprehensive shot values and strategic dynamic aspect doesn't diminish by one iota what the Gothenburg layout provides and what it will hopefully continue to inspire in future designs in the public realm.

[George Pazin]

Joe -

What I was trying to point out was the silliness of John's list (not that John needs any help from me to point out how silly this is ).

Brad Swanson asked John to provide his list of courses. John seems quite content to simply take people's opinions that support his position, while ignoring the people who disagree with his premise.

To me, this would be like Brad or Ron ranking courses in the following manner:

Brad: Gee, I think Pine Valley is the best course in the world. Anyone else have an opinion?

Poster #1: I like TOC - The Ocean Course. It killed the Ryder Cuppers back in '93.

Poster #2: I prefer Bethpage Black - it's a beast, look what it did in the Open a couple years back.

Poster #3: Don't forget about TOC - The Old Course - it set the standard.

Poster #4: You guys always forget about the Aussie gems - RM is hard to beat.

Poster #5: Obviously Shadow Creek is the best - I got service there like you wouldn't believe.

Poster #6: La Reve is gonna be better.

Poster #7: You guys are overlooking Trump National, Trump International, Trump West, Trump Toilet, etc.

Poster #8: How about The Bridge? It's long and hard.

Poster #9: I think my home course is the best course out there.

Brad: Okay, our new top 10 is as follows:

TOC
BB
TOC
RM
SC
LR
Trump whatever
The Bridge
Poster #9's home course
Pine Valley

Now that's a great list, just as good and just as scientific as John's!

At least Brad and Ron make an attempt to have people quantify their thoughts.

As to the rankings game, I agree wholeheartedly with Dick Daley's post #49 - rankings threads always boil down to "I'm smarter than you/I've played more courses than you/You're biased and I'm not/etc." and generally add nothing to the discussion on this site.

Matt -

I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to John's methodolgy (if you can even call it that) on this thread. You have been very clear in expressing your thoughts, even when I disagree with them!

BTW, I said I perfer TRC to Black Mesa, not Wild Horse. I have't had the pleasure of playing WH yet.

[Brad Swanson]

note: College courses are evaluated at the Faculty and Student prices just like Bethpage and other munis are on the list because of resident pricing....I was dissapointed in the high cost of Stanford so it is off..

Sorry Charlie, this is my thread, and my rules say the $$$ considered is for the general public.

Cheers,
Brad

[THuckaby2]

JK - good call in this context (which seems to me to be bang for the buck?) re Pajaro.  And if you think the breakfast is good, you should have stayed for lunch and post-golf cocktails... man that is one of the great friendly bars in golf, by my reckoning.

As for it making more lists, well... until the day bang for the buck, or value, or how much one pays or whatever is made a part of it, I don't see that happening.  The course is really cool, for sure, but take price and friendship for Pete out of the equation and I don't see Pajaro measuring up in terms of Top 100 lists anyway.  Would it beat out Wild Horse?  Man that's a tough call, as Wild Horse is pretty damn great.  Let's just say that I sure would love it if it did, as the homer I am, and thinking how cool that would be for Pete...but I remain kinda cynical.  Most people don't "get" Pajaro.  It has none of the views of the famous courses, and not much outward flash.  And try as Pete might he's never gonna get it as screaming firm and fast as Wild Horse, nor should he really given his clientele.  In any case a lot of the coolness of the course is pretty darn subtle, like how #18 green slopes away but you really can't tell how much and how neat it is outside of multiple playings.  Of course the place does also suffer in this context due to lack of exposure, but we're trying to fix that.

TH

[Brad Swanson]

The super at Wild Horse couldn't carry Pete's jock strap...

Jaka,
   This comment alone is possibly one of the most crazy/stupid things youy have stated here, and that's saying alot!

Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Joe Hancock]

George,

I think I was agreeing with you, just that I was listing (!) the reasons why.

While Barney can come up with some preposterous threads, I find most of them to be provocative in an unusual manner. The fact that he doesn't approach things so scholarly doesn't make him any less intelligent. I think......

Joe

[George Pazin]

Just to clarify, I don't think JK isn't intelligent - quite the contrary, in fact - and I, too, often find his provocative threads entertaining. It just bugs me that he seems to be presenting his list as fact when it's merely a compliation of wild assertions.

Maybe I'm just ornery today.

Hope to see you at the winter gathering - I'll be cheerful then.

 

[JakaB]

George,

This is as controlled enviornment as any rating process...1500 people who are no different and even in most cases the same people who rate for Ron and Brad....I just think they do your little exercise and average the results....I mean...do you really think Huck knows the difference between the shot values of Winged Foot and Cuscowilla...it is all just opinion.

Here is my offer to you to improve the list.....You have the right to name one course....anyone of the above mentioned and it will be forever struck from The 100 top 20 Affordable Courses....I trust your judgement and don't feel you need to have played the course you wish not to be on the list or that your choosing one course to be off the list is an endorsement for the remaining courses.....careful...it is a weighty resposibility..

Brad,

Pete is Pete Galea...not Pete Dye or Pete L or Pete Barbuti...Pete Galea is the super at Pajaro....the best in the business bar none...

[THuckaby2]

I mean...do you really think Huck knows the difference between the shot values of Winged Foot and Cuscowilla...it is all just opinion.

hey wait a second... I sure as heck... well come to think of it I don't... and if I do it sure is just my opinion... oh never mind.  JK has me nailed again.

 

[Dan Kelly]

JK has me nailed again.

You're easily nailable.

-----

Don't tell me we're going to get into the business of ranking superintendents, now!

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