[wsmorrison]

Below is an article from the December 1923 Green Section Record regarding hole lengths and green sizes of 12 notable golf courses.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Wayne,

In a promo piece written around 1927 when my home course opened, one of the highligted features was large greens.

It's difficult to read the small print, but it appears the greens in 1922 are averaging 5,200 to 8,400 square feet.

Since these numbers are PRE Depression, I wonder what their square footage was in 1932 ?

[Tom_Doak]

Wayne:

Thanks for printing that.  Did it come from the GREEN SECTION RECORD?

I like being reminded of the variety of sizes of greens at Pine Valley -- everything from 2500 sq ft to 12,000, with an average a bit over 7000.  One of our guests in Australia was very surprised by the different sizes of the greens at Barnbougle, but I have good precedents for everything I do!

I was most surprised by the numbers for Inverness at over 6000 sq ft per green; it can't be more than 4500 sq ft average now.

[wsmorrison]

Pat,

Let me try to post a better image.  In the meantime, the largest and smallest green sizes are both found at Pine Valley with the smallest at 2500 sq. ft. on the 303 yard 8th and the largest at 13,000 sq. ft. on the 425 yard 18th.  The smallest average green size measured 4850 at Apawamis and the largest averaged  8427 at Indian Hill Club.

In our travels, we have seen greens shrink and outlines become simplified.  This is evident at nearly every course including such notables as The Country Club in Brookline and Shinnecock Hills.

[wsmorrison]

I think the replaced image is a bit clearer, I'm working on a better version.  Sorry about the first image.

Tom,
Yes, this is from the December 1923 Green Section Record and was part of a 4 page article that I am attempting to post.

[Brian Phillips]

Wayne,

Just e-mailed you Pine Valley and Merion, let me know if you want any others done or anyone else wants other courses blown up.

I also emailed you the report in pdf format..

Cheers,

Brian

[wsmorrison]

Brian,

Thank you very much.  I was able to post the entire article (I won't go to jail will I?) from the Green Section Record.  CV Piper's position clearly is that the green size should correlate to the length of the hole on par 3s.  Piper was scientific in his approach and seemed to really embrace variety.  He states that some 2-shot holes might require a 140 yard tee shot and then a 200 yard shot to the green.  I don't think this idea ever took hold.

[Neil Regan]

Wayne,

  Here is a clearer image of the table.

[Neil Regan]

Here are the numbers for Pine Valley then and now (courtesy of TEP)

[/i][/u][/size]	PineValley[/i][/u][/size]	[/i][/u][/size]	[/i][/u][/size]	[/i][/u][/size]
[/i][/u][/size]	1923[/i][/u][/size]	[/i][/u][/size]	2000[/i][/u][/size]	[/i][/u][/size]
Hole#[/b][/i][/u][/size]	Length[/b][/i][/u][/size]	.    Size[/b][/i][/u][/size]	.     Length[/b][/i][/u][/size]	Size[/b][/i][/u][/size]
1	421	8,200	427	8,307
2	352	10,000	367	11,361
3	184	8,500	185	8,740
4	431	8,000	461	9,686
5	205	8,200	226	5,707
6	365	8,000	391	5,918
7	551	6,300	585	7,647
8	303	2,500	327	left=2,977,    right=2,685
9	411	7,000	432	left=6,316,    right=6,379
10	134	7,500	145	5,185
11	395	6,300	399	4,622
12	312	5,200	382	5,934
13	433	10,000	446	9,910
14	164	5,000	185	5,680
15	597	7,000	603	6,825
16	428	9,000	436	11,399
17	335	4,500	344	3,975
18	425	13,000	424	11,070
[/b][/size]	6446 [/b][/size]	134,200 [/b][/size]	6,765 [/b][/size]	131,259  131,030 [/b][/size]

 

[Neil Regan]

Here is a link to the original article:


The Size of the Putting Sward
Research by C.V. Piper in the USGA Journal December 1923  

[wsmorrison]

Good going, Neil!  I was just compiling the then and now at Pine Valley (the now from Finegan's book) and saw you already did it.  Thanks, now I can stop  

I also wish I knew how to post links, that way I wouldn't have to scan, manipulate, upload and post.  How the heck do you do that?  I'm a computer genius only compared to Tom Paul, otherwise I'm rather ignorant.

Happy Holidays!
Wayne

[Neil Regan]

And here is a link to a brief GCA discussion of this article from exactly 1 year ago today, including information about the definition of a green.





        GCA Discussion of this article December 2003

[wsmorrison]

Neil,

It is interesting to note that about half of the greens are similar in size while a number are considerably smaller (5,6,10,11,16,18) and surprisingly a few considerably larger (2,4,7,16).

[Neil Regan]

Wayne,

  I notice that the Pine Vallley and Apawamis numbers all end with 2 zeroes. Whoever supplied the numbers probably guessed.

[JohnV]

Since I hadn't heard of Indian Hill, I went to Google and looked around.  The first site I went to said that it had small greens.  I guess some things have changed since 1923.

[BCrosby]

I noticed that the piece was published by the Greek Section of the USGA. Always nice to hear about the USGA's international out-reach efforts.

Bob

[wsmorrison]

"And here is a link to a brief GCA discussion of this article from exactly 1 year ago today, including information about the definition of a green."

Well, Neil, great minds think alike.  My mind is only 1 year to the day behind yours  

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