[Adam_F_Collins]

As some of you know, I'm working on a paper which attempts to show golf courses as perhaps the most important type of pleasure garden of the modern era. (By important, I mean socially, politically, and economically). As you may also know, one of the most difficult aspects of writing is deciding what to include and what not to.

I have a couple of questions for you:

• If I were going to pick 5 architects which best represent the past 150 years, which would they be?

• For each one of the architects, I would attempt to focus on one example of a course design - which should correspond to each?

Your opinions are appreciated.

[Brian_Gracely]

Ross - Pinehurst - One of the original courses (the whole village) built to facilitate a place where people could promote better health, social interaction, and competition of this new game in the US.  From this background, Ross learned how to find the funding to build this prior hobby/skill into a viable business and expand golf across the US.

Not sure of the others, but I might target a few concepts:

- The ultra-exclusive metropolitan country club, where this new form of a board-room facilitated golf as a business vehicle. (Merion, Oakland Hills, Winged Foot, etc.)

- The residential/retirement community, where golf just became a part of the culture of a community like the grocery store or school

[Mike Benham]

Not sure of the others, but I might target a few concepts:

- The ultra-exclusive metropolitan country club, where this new form of a board-room facilitated golf as a business vehicle. (Merion, Oakland Hills, Winged Foot, etc.)

- The residential/retirement community, where golf just became a part of the culture of a community live the grocery store or school

The course that is 100% manufactured - the Stadium Course at TPC Sawgrass would be the course that defines this concept and Pete Dye.

[Adam_F_Collins]

I'm writing this to a non-golf readership. I'm trying to capture important shifts in architecture, while discussing courses that can demonstrate as well as larger spin-off effects or relationships beyond the course.

For instance,

Morris - Old Course
The establishment of structures, rules, regulations, and the norms of the game - "home of golf" - relationships with other clubs and courses

Ross-Pinehurst, As Brian mentioned - "golf mecca", promotion of health, social interaction, and golf itself

MacKenzie - Augusta National, Relationship with professional golf (Jones) The business side of golf, Roberts, the formation of the club, the important connections to power and influence through Eisenhower, the rise of The Masters

Pete Dye - Sawgrass - the rise of "stadium golf" and courses designed specifically for the inclusion of large crowds - Larger budgets, more advanced construction techniques.

Tom Fazio - Shadow Creek - just for sheer spectacle, the amount of money spent, the lengths that technology and funding can go in relation to the development of golf courses.

Tom Doak - Pacific Dunes - The return to "the Natural", Renaissance in golf course architecture, a renewed focus on GCA history and the golden age philosophies.

Not that these capture it, but this is what I'm grappling with.

[Brian_Gracely]

I'm writing this to a non-golf readership. I'm trying to capture important shifts in architecture, while discussing courses that can demonstrate as well as larger spin-off effects or relationships beyond the course.

Tom Doak - Pacific Dunes - The return to "the Natural", Renaissance in golf course architecture, a renewed focus on GCA history and the golden age philosophies.

Not that these capture it, but this is what I'm grappling with.

For Bandon Dunes, I might suggest a slightly different angle.  
Yes it captures all the minimalist/naturalist stuff, but it also shows how a portion of society will travel to remote locations to find some of the pleasures that might have inspired them years ago.  

....and Old Tom didn't design The Old Course, but that might be an interesting aspect of how the early UK communities embraced golf and how that's evolved over the years (both in the UK and especially in the US)

[Dan Kelly]

Tom Doak - Pacific Dunes - The return to "the Natural", Renaissance in golf course architecture, a renewed focus on GCA history and the golden age philosophies.

Wouldn't this place rightly go to Coore & Crenshaw at Sand Hills?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I would have to cheat a little here..
1 The Philly group as your first "architect" inluding Wilson, Flynn, Tillie,Colt, and Colt...Yes I know Colt is not a Philly group memeber, but becomes one for these purposes because of his involvement with Pine Valley.

2. Dr Mc
3.C.B.MAC
4.R.T.JONES
5.p. DYE
Of course there are those who will place Fazio, Nicklays, Doak,c&c,and a host of others, which will show why it is so difficult to limit you paper to just 5 architects...50 would be a better number to handle the past 150 years.
As one who has had to write 3 different thesis papers I know that 50 is not feasible..good luck.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I am so embarrased I left Ross of my list altogether..there you go..impossible to come up with 5

[john_stiles]

I'm just tossing another name in the ring.....

C.B Macdonald ( National Golf lInks) ...........if for no other reason then he (and Raynor) built many courses for the extremely rich and powerful........the playground gardens for THE powerful economic and political figures of the day....and not mention his influence in formation of the USGA, early days of Chicago Golf, schooled at St. Andrews under Old Tom, his golf writings, his golfing prowess, etc.

Non golf types would recognize  Augusta National and all it's exclusivity and power, etc.  .........but IMO Macdonald/Raynor catered to the formation of the clubs by the most powerful leaders of the day.

It wasn't so much a shift in architecture as it was the powerful reinforcement, in the early days of the first American golf boom,  that the strategy of the course was paramount .........

[Bill Gayne]

Breaking down the list into 30 year increments and limiting to U.S. or British Isles. Some of the dates may overlap as I'm just going top of mind.

1850-1880 Oakhurst Links
1880-1910 NGLA
1910-1940 ANGC
1940-1970 Harbourtown (this one is tough)
1970-2000 Sandhills

British Isles
1850-1880 St. Andrews
1880-1910 Ballybunion
1910-1940 Wentworth
1940-1970 Turnberry
1970-2000 Loch Lomond

[RDecker]

I know it's difficult to consider Ross for the merits of one specific landmark course but certainly his Henry Ford type productivity and his bringing quality architecture to the masses needs to be recognized.

[Adam_F_Collins]

....and Old Tom didn't design The Old Course, but that might be an interesting aspect of how the early UK communities embraced golf and how that's evolved over the years (both in the UK and especially in the US)

I've seen Alan Robertson credited - did Tom Morris have anything to do with TOC architecturally later on?

What course would we connect Old Tom to? Do we just connect him to the town and the new course? It seems like he has so much connection to St. Andrews. We could also connect Colt there through the Eden course...

[SPDB]

Tom Doak - Pacific Dunes - The return to "the Natural", Renaissance in golf course architecture, a renewed focus on GCA history and the golden age philosophies.

Be careful on how much you let an unrepresentative population (GCA.com) guide your thinking on the state of the art.
Also, I quoted the above because you talk about "the return to 'the Natural'" without first establishing the natural, i.e. to what it is returning to (unless Old Tom was your historical pt. of reference, which would be a mistake IMO)

[Adam_F_Collins]

Tom Doak - Pacific Dunes - The return to "the Natural", Renaissance in golf course architecture, a renewed focus on GCA history and the golden age philosophies.

Be careful on how much you let an unrepresentative population (GCA.com) guide your thinking on the state of the art.
Also, I quoted the above because you talk about "the return to 'the Natural'" without first establishing the natural, i.e. to what it is returning to (unless Old Tom was your historical pt. of reference, which would be a mistake IMO)

Great points, surely. I plan on discussing "the natural" on its own. The role of nature and how man defines it is often of central importance in the study of garden history, so I would show some attitudes and viewpoints on the subject - perhaps writings of various architects like MacKenzie, Tillinghast, etc.

Your point about state-of-the art is well taken. What would you suggest? Perhaps a few shorter descriptions and examples are warranted for each time period...

[ian]

1850-1880 - the birth of organized golf clubs
St. Andrews, evolution with an assist by Robertson

Golf design simply begins here and there is still no other more important course.

1880-1904 the birth of the architect
Sunningdale by Willie Park Jr.

The move of golf to London's heathland represents an important landmark event in design, it eventually led to the age that followed after the war because it expanded the idea of where golf can occur.

1904-1939 - between the wars - the golden age
THe National Golf Links of America, Charles Blair MacDonald
There are probably others who are equal or better, but he is the start of the amatuer architect, who draws upon other designs for inspiration. He leads us to Frownes, Wilson, Crump and many others who changed the concept and imagaination of what can be designed.

1940-1970 - modernization
The Dunes Golf and Beach Club by Robert Trent Jones
Actualy pick any early Trent Jones really. His courses defined the time with there mass production, machine created shapes and easy maintenance formula was copied by practically everyone in the business. He was also the best publicized architect in history. The Dunes of Myrtle Beach fame shows the mass marketing of golf destinations and the rapid rise of resort golf.

1970-2000 - the second golden age
The Vintage Club by Tom Fazio
This club represents his rise to prominance, and the modern architects to work with any site and in any enviornment. Tom is symbolic of golf architecture being driven by marketing as much as by talent. Golf architects have publicists and marketing people who make sure there.


I looked at this excercise as not what do I like the most, but what had the most influence in it's time. I broke the 5 periods up to the logical times that seemed to represent fundimental changes in thinking. I'm not pleased with the last two, but I look forward to the next phase which I think is currently under way.

Ian

[Tyler Kearns]

ST. ANDREWS - the gold standard
NATIONAL GOLF LINKS OF AMERICA - revolutionary rejection of the Victorian age course in North America & the emulation of the strategic design from across the pond
_____________ - something from the Robert Trent Jones portfolio (I am not familiar enough with his work)
TPC @ SAWGRASS - the modern age, heavily manufactured
SAND HILLS - the new golden age, a return to a more natural aesthetic

TK

[T_MacWood]

Ian
Has Fazio been more influencial than Dye?

How big an impact did Macdonald and the NGLA actually have? It was the first great American course and Macdonald was a force, but his design career was quite short and other than his porteges very few followed his model. Who had the greater impact Macdonald or Colt?

I'm also not sure Willie Park-Jr would want to be the spokesman for all the dark years of the 80's and 90's.

This is a very difficult exercise....the one period it seems that everyone agrees on is RTJ. His impact on golf architecture is hard to ignore or discount.

[ian]

Tom,

Very good questions!

Has Fazio been more influencial than Dye?

Probably should be Dye, but Fazio represents the period more. Dye to me single handedly ended the Jones era, is a very worthy choice with landmark courses like the self contained drainage at OLd Marsh and the site recovery like Whistling Straights. I guess I was looking for an architect who best sums up the times. I thought these were the times of high profiles, advertising and marketing where talent wasn't the first choice (marketability was).

How big an impact did Macdonald and the NGLA actually have? It was the first great American course and Macdonald was a force, but his design career was quite short and other than his porteges very few followed his model. Who had the greater impact Macdonald or Colt?{/b]

Colt. This was the one I struggled with the most. I agree with the idea of Colt mainly for the early travel and the growth of the travelling designer. His influence over design is huge, but I also thought he came from the era where I selected Park.

I'm also not sure Willie Park-Jr would want to be the spokesman for all the dark years of the 80's and 90's.
This was about finding the first guy to build a signifigant course inland, therefore changing the idea of location forever.

This is a very difficult exercise....the one period it seems that everyone agrees on is RTJ. His impact on golf architecture is hard to ignore or discount.

I answered this because I thought this should be an excellent discussion. Think about the questions
What are the periods?
Who defined the period?

[Tyler Kearns]

Tom,

In a more global sense, Macdonald may not have as signifigant influence as the work of H.S. Colt. I am guilty of a North American bias simply because I have yet to venture across the pond to see the great designs of Great Britian & Ireland.

TK

[Adam_F_Collins]

This is a very difficult exercise....the one period it seems that everyone agrees on is RTJ. His impact on golf architecture is hard to ignore or discount.

Tom, would you agree that The Dunes Golf and Beach club is the one to focus on in relation to Jones? Would you also agree on his contributions?

Also, Ian suggests that course design begins at St. Andrews and most would agree. But what name or names do we connect with her in the context of this discussion?

To quote the St. Andrews website:

"The Old Course has evolved over time and was not designed by any one architect. The people who played a major role in shaping it are Daw Anderson (1850s), Old Tom Morris (1860s-1900)and Dr Alister Mackenzie (1930s)"

No mention of Robertson...

[Matthew Schulte]

I would think you would have to put Colt's influence ahead of C.B. Mac not only because he was the first to travel to the extent that he did, but he was also really the first truly enterprising architect.  He showed everyone else how to treat architecture like a business.  He was truly the first "Professional Architect" in the modern sense.

Not to mention showing that true greatness can be acheived beyond the linksland.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

There's another aspect to St A's and Scotland in general, that of the golf course being for prince and pauper and it's still largely true.  As a St A's citizen you can still get an annual ticket for a modest sum enabling you to play all the courses run by the St A's Links Trust.  

Surely Woking was the course that alerted golfers to the potential of the Surrey heathland.  Golf had been played on Blackheath for several centuries and Wimbledon Common for many years.  Inevitably they were Scots who were behind these early home counties golf courses/clubs and they were mostly Scots who exported the game throughout the then British Empire and to South America.

[Brian Phillips]

Anyone who doesn't think that Colt had one of the greatest influences on the history of design needs to travel a little more in Europe.

The man had one of the largest architectural offices (when talking of a quality portfolio) in the world ever!  Not just in the old days but even when you compare it to these days.

The guy taught MacKenzie!!  If it wasn't for Colt looking after the man at Alwoodley and then letting him have a major hand in the Eden course where would MacKenzie be now?

Alison, Morrison, Colt and MacKenzie...what a team what a company...

You have to ask yourselves...what influence did CB MacDonald have on the rest of the world...not just America..?

Yes, he changed the profession and the way of thinking of design but what else did he really, really do?

To me it's a no brainer...Colt is the most influential architect in Europe if not the world during his time.

Brian

[ian]

Brian,

Point taken.

This was about choosing a representative for the time, not the best architect in practice. I could argue for Colt because of hos use of working drawings, tree planting plans, and integrated housing developments; but the change MacDonald brought to the American landscape was staggering. In turn America ended up having a massive influence on the rest of the world's golf.

The toughest question is what was each era defined by. What was the defining moment in architecture for that era? I picked 5 eras, but are they actually correct.

[Tyler Kearns]

Brian,

In regards to C.B. Macdonald, you wrote, "Yes, he changed the profession and the way of thinking of design but what else did he really, really do?".

I agree that Colt was more prolific, was an equally talented architect and that his influence is measured on a global scale - and that probably qualifies him as arguably the best of his era. However, C.B. Macdonald's work at NGLA went against the grain, and shifted the tide of architecture. That is very, very signifigant, and should not be discounted. In the world of architecture, he initiated a new age of design, and that age is exemplified by NGLA.

TK

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