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Brian_Gracely

Re:Would Pine Valley still be #1 if ....
« Reply #250 on: December 07, 2004, 12:06:49 PM »
I started this thread like 10yrs ago (or so it seems) and it's finally dawned on me that I doubt that there will ever be another course that will be ranked #1...except those occasional Pebble Beach re-rankings.

Why is this?
a) Pine Valley is apparently pretty damn good.  

b) There will never be another architect (or club) that takes 4-6yrs to scout, route, design and build their course.  

c) Quirk is dead in modern golf, and ultimately all great courses have quirk

d) Patience is no longer a virtue, so the absolutely need to get a course ranked, rated, review, disected, evaluated, photographed, marketed will override any allowance of a "grace-period" to let the course grow in, adapt to playability, solve drainage/growing issues, etc...  
« Last Edit: December 07, 2004, 12:17:26 PM by Brian_Gracely »

Andy Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Would Pine Valley still be #1 if ....
« Reply #251 on: December 07, 2004, 01:54:26 PM »
Brian
I suspect you may be right re Pine Valley being forever #1, but I am not sure I agree with your reasons.  

Quote
Pine Valley is apparently pretty damn good.
 
While the course is undoubtedly pretty damn good as you say, so are many others, and a just claim could be made for the Old Course or for Sand Hills or for Cypress Point or for....
I think the hard part is getting to the top of the hill, but once there, it is damn hard to get dislodged. Tradition and inertia go a very long way to maintaining the status quo.

Quote
There will never be another architect (or club) that takes 4-6yrs to scout, route, design and build their course.
You may be right, but somehow I doubt it.  I suspect there will always be wealthy people who are willing to spend whatever it takes and take as long as it takes to make it just so.  Sorta like Bandon, or the European Club.  Would Sand Hills have been better if C&C had taken longer? Maybe? Do archies still go back and make modifications as needed?

Quote
Quirk is dead in modern golf, and ultimately all great courses have quirk
As much as we both love Tobacco Road, this must be wrong, 'cause they don't get much quirkier  ;)  But the better point may be that modern quirk perhaps is not appreciated, but if it is on an old course it is a selling point (i.e. hitting over the 'rail sheds' on the Road Hole, or the Windmill at NGLA etc)

Quote
Patience is no longer a virtue, so the absolutely need to get a course ranked, rated, review, disected, evaluated, photographed, marketed will override any allowance of a "grace-period" to let the course grow in, adapt to playability, solve drainage/growing issues, etc...
Yeah, probably true, along with the issue of getting the product to market quicker to start the cash register ringing. But I can easily envision, as I said above, exceptions to this rule. Perhaps TDoak can actually add something to this area, whether he feels he can always take all the time he wants etc.  
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

TEPaul

Re:Would Pine Valley still be #1 if ....
« Reply #252 on: December 07, 2004, 04:12:40 PM »
It's odd and sort of funny how these threads debating what should be #1 take place so often. Maybe Sand Hills will take PVGC's place at #1 one of these days but PVGC has been #1 for a long, long time against both Pebble and Cypress except once about two years ago when Pebble Beach replaced it as #1 for a single year. I don't see that either Pebble or Cypress have done anything recently to take PV's place and PV hasn't done anything recently to lose it's place. Obviously not everyone thinks PV is #1 in the country or the world but clearly more people think it is than any other course in the world.

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