[Marty Bonnar]

La Nancy has decided to Winter in Spain's deep south this December and has graciously consented to allowing the FBD to accompany her.
Any recos from this fine body as to 'must-plays' in the area around Marbella/Malaga?
I know about the Torrequebradas and Sotograndes obviously but I assume there's a few wee 'Hidden Gems' which I mustn't miss?

FBD.

Oh and PS Is Valderamma worth the HUGE Green fee?

[ForkaB]

El Fat

Fuggedabout the gowf--it's all just Florida without the alligators, the cart girls and the all you can eat buffets for $7.99.

Go to Granada, Seville, Cordoba, etc. and get some kultur.  We need some more of it up here in Scotland.

Regardless, enjoy.......

[James Edwards]

Martin,

I can safely say that I have spent more time playing the courses in and around Puerto Banus (due to the the lads holiday which frequents that part of the world every year in the first week of June for the Ryder Cup - 5 europeans and 5 Americans from my Golf Club) than most!

Valderamma is without doubt worth the money.  The greens are tiny, I mean tiny! but the condition of the place is spot on.

We played a good course this year called Los Flamingos just up from Puerto Banus, and it has some wonderful golf holes.  You cant go wrong with San Roque Old and New where the tour school was held a matter of days ago, Torremalinos is a solid layout, Marbella Club, another great carry golf course, Alcadesia which is down by Sotogrande on the coast overlooking the rock of Gibraltar.  Santa Maria is a fun little course as well as Los Naranjos.  There is a course on the main road leading to Marbella, called Rio Real which again, is worth a visit as it has so many memorable holes which far outweigh the other less impactive ones.

Directly above Puerto Banus you have got LA Quinta which again is worth a visit, but for spectacular golf up in the hills you cant go wrong with La Cala or Zagaletta the original which is in the most exclusive part of Spain I have been told.

The toughest course I would send you to play is Monte Mayor and I set you a challenge here and now that If you do not lose a ball all the way around, I will buy you a bunch of balls when we finally get our game with Ronan and Brian!  It is tough!

Il think of some more.

[Marty Bonnar]

Muchas gracias, mi amigos.
Great suggestions, Gentlemen (from opposite ends of the vacationing spectrum obviously!) We'll certainly try to play a few of your suggestions, James (in between kultchur vultchuring our way around Espanas architectural and landscape architectural treasures, Rich!)
All this, naturally taking place between the Tapas, Cerveza, Sherry, Paella and Cigaros-fuelled evenings!)

Adios!
FBD.

PS James - Is it worth a trip to Gib and maybe over to the Dark (in)Continent?

[James Edwards]

Martin,

Funny you should say that - I did it recently.

Gibraltar is definately worth visiting as I dont think it will be in the possession of the British much longer  .  It is quite a sureal experience to see Marks N Spencers in the highstreet and all the British Pubs and Fish N Chip shops alike!

Tangiers is a must and prepare yourself for a culture shock and watch the pockets.  Last time I was there my partner had her purse stolen without us even knowing about it - clearly!  All the kids come running up to the boat as soon as you arrive and swarm around you confusing you whilst one knabs your goodies!!

All the same, it is well worth seeing the Casbar and getting a token camel ride for the pictures!

[mikes1160]

Martin,

The Marbella Club Resort is worth checking out. Dave Thomas designed it - some tricked up holes, but beatiful vistas - on the 18th, you can see Gilbrater and Morocco in the distance.

[Ville Nurmi]

Wouldn´t it be quite a drive from Malaga to Gibraltar?
Around Malaga I would suggest Parador GC. It is an older layout by the sea. It should be good.
Almost all of the newer ones are housing projects or they are set to the mountains, so if you wan´t more relaxing golf try out the older courses.

Ville

[Tommy Williamsen]

Consider taking the ferry to Morrocco and play in Rabat.  It is worth it for the experience and can be done in just a couple of days.

[Tommy Williamsen]

It is also worth the time to play on the coast of Portugal.  San Lorenzo and Val Do Lobo. It is an easy drive.

[JohnV]

Can't say much for the golf in Spain as I only played Pals up in the northeastern area.  But remember what the boys at Monty Python had to say about Spain before your book a tour:

C: Yes well Ive been on package tours many times before and so
   your advert really baught my eye.
A: Good, good, jolly good.
C: Yes, you're quite right, whats the point of going abroad if
   you're just another tourist carted around in buses surrounded
by sweaty miners sons from Kettering and Boventry with their
bloth baps and their bardigans and their transistor radios
complaining about the tea, ooh they dont make it properly here
do they - and stopping at endless Majorcan bodegas selling fish
and chips and Watneys Red Barrel and calamares and two veg and
sitting in their cotton sunfrocks squirting Timothy Whites sun
cream all over their puffy raw swollen purulent flesh cos they
overdid it on the first day.
A: Absolutely, absolutely.
C: And being herded into endless Hotel Miramars and Bellevueses
   and Bontinentals with their International luxury roomettes
   and draught Red Barrel and swimming pools full of fat German
   businessmen pretending to be acrobats forming pyramids and
   frightening the children and barging into the queues. And if
   you're not at the table spot on 7 you miss your bowl of
   Campbells Cream of Mushroom soup - the first item on the menu
   of Internaional cuisine.
A: Absolutely, well what we'd like....
C: And every Thursday night theres bloody cabaret in the bar,
   featuring some tiny emaciated dago with 9 inch hips, and some
   fat bloated tart with her hair Brylcreamed down and a big arse
   presenting flamenco for foreigners. And then an audio-typist
   from Birmingham with flabby white legs and dihorrea trying
   to pick up hairy legged wop waiters called Manuel.
A: Will you be quiet!
C: And once a week theres an excursion to the local Roman remains
   where you can buy Cherryade, and melted Ice Cream and bleeding
   Watneys Red Barrel.
A: Please....
C: And one night they take you to a typical restaurant with local
   atmosphere and colour and you sit next to a party of people
   from Rhyl who keep singing "Torremolinos, Torremolinos".
A: WILL you be QUIET!.
C: And complaining about the food.. ooh its SO greasy isnt it.
   You get cornered by some drunken greengrocer from Luton with
   an Instamatic camera and Dr Scholl sandals and last Tuesdays
   Daily Express and he drones on and on and on about how Mr Smith
   should be running this country, and how many languages
   Enoch Powell can speak and then he throws up all over the
   Cuba Libres. Then sending tiddly postcards of places they dont
   realise they havent even visited.... to all at number 22,
   weather wonderful, food very greasy, but we have managed to
   find this tiny little place hidden away in the back streets
   where you can buy Cheese and Onion crisps and Watneys Red
   Barrel. And spending four days on the tarmac at Luton airport
   on a five day package tour with nothing to eat but dried BEA
   type sandwiches and you cant even get a glass of Watneys Red
   Barrel cos you're still in England and the bloody bar closes
   every time you're thirsty. And the kids are crying and vomiting
   and breaking the plastic ashtrays and they keep telling you
   it'll only be another hour although you know damn well your
   plane is still in Iceland and it has to come back and take
   a party of Swedes to Yugoslavia before it can come back and load
   you up at 3am in the morning. And then you sit on the tarmac
   for four hours because of 'unforseen difficulties', ie. the
   permanent strike of Air Traffic Control; and when you finally
   get to Malaga airport and everyones swallowing into Vioform
   tablets and queueing for the bloody toilets and queueing for
   the bloody armed customs officers, and queueing for the bloody
   bus that isnt there waiting to take you to the hotel that
   hasn't yet been built. And when you finally get to the half-built
   Algerian ruin, called the Hotel del Sol, by paying half your
   holiday money to a licensed bandit in a taxi; thers no water
   in the pool, theres no water in the taps, theres no water in
   the bog, and theres only a bleeding lizard in the bidet!
   And half the rooms are double booked and you cant sleep anyway
   cos of the permanent 24 hour drilling of the foundations of
   the hotel next door. You play with appalling apprentice
   chemists from Ealing pretending to be hippies, and middle-class
   stockbrokers wives from Esher, busily buying identical holiday
   villas and suburban development plots just like Esher, because
   the Labour Governments got in again.
   Meanwhile the Spanish National Tourist Board......< fade out>

[ForkaB]

.....and don't forget the Spanish Inquisition..........

[JohnV]

Gee Rihc, I wasn't expecting that comeback.

[Paul_Turner]

Martin

I'd love to see pics of The Real Club De Malaga; a Simpson+Colt course.  Not sure of who did what, when.

[Marty Bonnar]

"Oh, this year I'm off to Sunny Spain, Y Viva Espana!,
I'm taking the Costa Brava Plane, Y Viva Espana!"..

Enough of that!

Gents,
Like two delicate Swallows (or maybe one delicate Swallow and one lumbering great Goose!), we fly south this very evening. Thanks for the recommendations. Will report back upon our return.

"Torre-Molinos! Torre-molinos and Bleedin' Watneys Bleedin' Red Bleedin' Barrel!"

"No, no, NOT the Comfy Cushion!!!!"

Buenos Golfos,
FBD.

[Gerry B]

valderrama, sotogrande, marbella club and rio real are all really good.
Have played Royal dar essalem in Rabat, Morocco -3 courses -the red is the best -but not worth the trip IMHO and the food sucks.

[Philip Gawith]

is that course in morocco the place where butch harmon spent some time helping the king hone his game before he discovered the other king?

re valderrama - not the most welcoming course, but worth the effort. the most striking thing is the conditioning of the course which is unmatched anywhere i have played. also, the cork-tree lined fairways are very distinctive, although you get a similar effect at the old san roque course.

[Gerry B]

philip:

it could be. one of the three courses had a tee box that only king hassan was allowed to tee off from.my caddie said that the king was a sandbagging 15 handicap. one of the other courses was closed mondays to the public so his highness could have the place to himself.  
the caddie fee was about 6 dollars -i gave my caddie 30 dollars the 1st day and he was my friend for life. would go into the swamplike hazards  to look for errant tee shots - and i am talking about hazards that any normal person would not even consider looking for a lost ball

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Martin,
I just had Malaga. Horrible stuff, really.

And it really hurt when I would go to the bathroom to urinate!

[Forrest Richardson]

You should contact Cabell Robinson, a golf architect who lives part of the year in Spain. He is very familiar with new work over there, including hidden gems, as they are known on this site.

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