[Jeff_Mingay]

Which are the very best courses throughout the world built upon clay - old and new?

And, of the new ones, I'd like to hear about some of my fellow architect's experiences with clay, and the difficulties it causes in terms of achieving your ultimate artistic goals.

This post stems from my own experiences over the past few months renovating an existing golf course on a clay-base site. I did the design and shaping work on this project, and man... the clay definitely warped my initial visions.

In short, it's very, very difficult to shape... particularly on an in-house project with limited equipment, resources, and materials.

Anxious to hear some other stories about [miserable] clay...

[Bob_Huntley]

Titirangi G.C., Auckland, New Zealand had an awful clay base. Summer conditions were great, winter just lousy.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Bob,

Speaking of an old course like Titirangi, it's amazing to me that some really good work was done on clay-base sites with horses and drap pans, back in the days prior to the advent of large scale earth moving equipment.

Having experienced working with bad clay equipped with bulldozers and excavators, my hats off to the shapers and constrution men of the past. Shaping golf features with clay is frankly very tedious, and frustrating.  

I'll take this experience with me into the future, when perhaps I'll leave some paper plans with a crew to shape a clay-base site. Instead of ranting and raving about how things didn't turn out according to plan, I think I'll have some sympathy.  

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff,

As I pointed out several times when writing the wrap-up for the GOLF Magazine rankings, 16 of the top 20 courses in the world were built on sand.

The four which aren't?  Pebble Beach, Augusta National, Merion, and Oakmont.

[Jeff_Mingay]

I know it, Tom... which is why I'm dreaming of sand after the past week!

Of the "other four", which ones were pure clay? I'm thinking Oakmont might have been. Was Pebble Beach though?

And, Augusta's property was a successful nursery beforehand... was the site pure clay?

Again, my hats off to the guys who shaped those courses

[Craig Sweet]

The Old Works in Anaconda, Montana is built on clay. It certainly isn't one of the "very best" courses in the world, but it is unique.

The site was a Superfund clean up location and clay was hauled in and spread 12" deep to cap 100 years of mining waste.  

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