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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« on: November 10, 2004, 07:49:56 AM »
Reading another thread below about revenue from a US Open....
Try this scenario....
kid gets his tour card....
pays PGA $450 in dues just in case he is chosen and can play on Ryder Cup team
PGA profits 30 mill from these players
Texas Open held same week gives 6 mill to charity
Ryder Cup gives 2 mill to charity
How do you think the tour players really feel??
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2004, 09:06:41 AM »
Dean Beman set the bar for greed and Tim Finchem has eagerly raised it.  I was surprised when Tiger and Co. folded about getting paid for playing in the Ryder Cup.  Their position, while unpopular, was certainly justified.


Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2004, 09:41:45 AM »
It certainly is a different animal from the one of the mid seventies and prior.
The competition had intensified, but the players desire to be involved really has not..at least on this side of the pond.
hal is a friend of mine, and said "you cannot believe how hard it was dealing with all those wives"
yes you read it correctly "wives"....what is all that about, who the hell cares about about the wives !!!
As Hal said how many high profile wives do you know, or see on the Europes side..none..yet the American wives feel the need to be inside the ropes..being seen all the time.
Hal actually believed that was his biggest problem!

The money aspect is inevitable as long as tv is involved, and after all we all want to watch it...should the players be paid? should it be an honour?
Two sides to that argument, but the monies generated, should be churned back into the development of the game..the first tee perhaps...I agree that the millions of profit should not just dissapear into the pockets of the PGA, and the 2 million donated to charity is a disgrace.

Ther are so many problems with the "behind the scenes" of the Ryder Cup...course selection has become an issue of deep pockets...especially on the European side..
Who really wants to see the Ryder Cup played at Celtic Manor/
a mediocre golf course at best?
But the same can be said of USPGA sites..Valhalla..Whistling Straits...not many peoples ideas of true major championship venues....multiple problems..money generated problems..just them show up and play...forget the tens of thousands on uniforms..just tee it up!!!

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2004, 10:23:59 AM »
yes

Notice the spirit of the GCA matches-no results were posted for 2 days,and few noticed or asked.If much of the public lost interest,would that be a bad thing?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2004, 10:55:40 AM »
Dean Beman set the bar for greed and Tim Finchem has eagerly raised it.  I was surprised when Tiger and Co. folded about getting paid for playing in the Ryder Cup.  Their position, while unpopular, was certainly justified.


While I am sure Finchem would like to control the Ryder Cup it is controlled by the PGA of America and not PGA Tour, Inc.

While I'm not sure the $2,000,000 is a disgrace or not I have been told that quite a bit of this money is used to help fund the retirement monies for PGA of America members.  This is primarily the Club Pro's and assistants all over America.

Doubt anyone would ever get a full accounting on all this unless you were within the inner circle of the PGA of America Board.
Best,
Dave

tlavin

Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2004, 11:11:09 AM »
Just back from Pinehurst where I had a beverage or nine in the Ryder Cup lounge.  Take a look at the pictures from the matches of old and you will come to an inescapable conclusion: avarice and commercialism have RUINED any spirt of the Ryder Cup matches here in America.  I went to Oakland Hills this year and I'll never go to another match here in the States again.  They've turned it into the fricking Super Bowl of golf and the players act like they could care less.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2004, 11:11:31 AM by tlavin »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2004, 11:15:31 AM »
yes

Notice the spirit of the GCA matches-no results were posted for 2 days,and few noticed or asked.If much of the public lost interest,would that be a bad thing?

Jeff -

Huckaby has been offline since the GCA matches ... when he returns I'm sure he will pontificate about said matches ... ;)

Mike
"... and I liked the guy ..."

JakaB

Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2004, 11:20:23 AM »
Mike,

Huck was only one of seven northerners to lose in singles at the Dixie Cup....not to mention the 12 points he lost to me and my partner at Athens CC in the Shivas Scotch format....We have now found out that he did suffer from a double secret palm bone blister..
« Last Edit: November 10, 2004, 11:25:13 AM by John B. Kavanaugh »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2004, 11:22:54 AM »
I presume you guys are talking about the USA team as we do not get that impression on this side of the pond about our team.

I wonder what Rich thinks being an American living over here?

Brian
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2004, 11:29:21 AM »
I presume you guys are talking about the USA team as we do not get that impression on this side of the pond about our team.

 Brian

Brian:
You are correct.  The European players continue to take this seriously and play appropriately.  Too many of the US players think this is just an exhibition.
Best
Dave

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2004, 02:50:37 PM »
As the PGA was meeting a couple of years ago and telling Tiger that people are remembered for their Ryder Cup records.  Tiger asked" does anyone in the room know JN's Ryder Cup record".  No one answered as he smiled and left the room.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

john_stiles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2004, 03:40:38 PM »
I went to Ryder Cup at Kiawah in 1991 and didn't think anyone (players, officials, and all the spectators) thought that was a joke.

Also, had a chance to volunteer at this year's Ryder Cup but had to cancel because of my schedule.  Anyway, it was difficult to get excited about the event.

I think the increase in all the 'Cup' style competitions has diminished all of these events.  They have all turned into these 'made for TV' productions.   My interest has waned for most events as any opportunity to play is better. I am down to the Masters, US Open, and The Open as far as must see golf events.

President's Cup back at Manassas in 2005 brings a big yawn.
Where is the 'smilie' for a big yawn ?

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2004, 05:13:40 PM »
john - what about the 84 Lumber Classic as a must see?  They even have a couple of lions in a cage along one of the fairways so that Daly can feel "prideful".

I agree that the Ryder Cup is on its way to oblivion if they don't get the damn money out of it.  The opening ceremonies on TV this year were the most embarrasingly bad golf-related television I've ever seen.

While they're at it, get the wives out of the event.  Make it about the players for cryin' out loud.  

Another idea - put the top US player from the US Am on the team along with the top European from the British Am.  

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2004, 08:24:41 PM »
What the Ryder Cup needs is something like the atmosphere at The Tommy Bahama Challenge played yesterday in Scottsdale at Grayhawk for viewing on New Year's Day. Imagine Gary McCord as the Team USA Captain and David Feherty as the Team Euro Captain. Here is the story and  the results:

Tommy Bahama Challenge
MATCH 1: David Howell, England, (66) tied Chad Campbell, U.S., (66).

MATCH 2: Kevin Na, South Korea, (70) tied Zach Johnson, U.S., (70).

MATCH 3: Chris Riley, U.S., (70) def. Paul Casey, England, (72).

MATCH 4: Ian Poulter, England, (68) def. Hank Kuehne, U.S., (70).

U.S. won team title in one-hole playoff.

Campbell won individual title in par-3 shootout.

 
 
 
 U.S. gets a slice of revenge
Bahama victory eases Ryder loss

John Davis
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 10, 2004 12:00 AM

Gary McCord got bragging rights. David Feherty got a pie in the face. A U.S. team finally got a trophy. And Chad Campbell got a measure of revenge and a new Mercedes.

There were lots of laughs and plenty of good golf shots as the Americans defeated the International team in a one-hole playoff Tuesday in the first Tommy Bahama Challenge at Grayhawk Golf Club in Scottsdale.

Each team won two of the four stroke-play matches. The Americans prevailed in an alternate-shot playoff on the 18th hole after Kevin Na of the International squad hit his approach shot into a water hazard. advertisement  
 
 


McCord, who captained the U.S. squad, "celebrated" by smashing a cream pie into the face of International captain Feherty, his fellow CBS golf commentator.

"This is a fitting conclusion," McCord said. "You have no idea how good this feels."

Although they put the emphasis on "fun," it also felt good to the U.S. players after the Europeans rallied to tie them. Through five holes, the Americans led all four matches. When they made the turn at 9, the U.S. was leading in two, with two tied.

As they headed into the homestretch, things got a little more serious.

"Absolutely," Campbell said. "Even though it's a fun event, you still don't want to lose, and everybody feels the same way. It's fun for a while, but when it comes right down to it, you need to play some golf."

Na's approach shot on the playoff hole left the Internationals facing a double bogey, while the Americans were looking at a par putt, and the International team conceded the match. Members of the winning team received $100,000 each and the losers got $75,000 apiece.

Paul Casey of England, a three-time All-American at Arizona State and a Scottsdale resident, said the pressure started building when the matches tightened up.

"We were all miked, but there wasn't as much banter going on as people might expect," said Casey, who lost to Chris Riley in a match between two Ryder Cup players. "It got very quiet on those last three holes."

The medalist honors were shared by Campbell and England's David Howell at 4-under 66. Howell had trailed Campbell by 2 shots but rallied with five birdies in the last 10 holes.

That created another playoff of sorts, with the individual winner receiving a new Mercedes and $20,000. It was decided in a shootout on a makeshift hole of 81 yards over water to a pin cut near the water hazard. Each player got two attempts, and Campbell won on the last one, hitting his shot 18 inches from the hole.

Campbell didn't even know if he would play in the event until two days ago. His father was hospitalized with heart problems last week, causing him to withdraw Friday from the Tour Championship, where he was the defending champion. Campbell said his father was due to be released from the hospital in the next two days.

What made it all the more gratifying is that Campbell and Jim Furyk had lost to Howell and Casey in a close Ryder Cup match in September.

"We pushed," Campbell said. "At least I won the playoff and got the car."

Casey said he would much rather hold the Ryder Cup.

"No matter what McCord says, winning the Ryder Cup feels better," Casey said. "This event is just about winning money, and it was probably worth it to lose just to see Feherty get a pie in the face."
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

seanc

Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2004, 08:53:47 PM »
When did the opening ceremony become a rock concert?

Give the winning team more money $100,000 vs. $80,000 for example.

Donate 80% of the income to charity.

Nobody inside the ropes ala Masters.

Play at the top 50 courses that are interested in hosting.

No more corporate tents.

Limit ticket sales to 10,000 per day.

One permanent uniform(s).

Minimum 2 cups per captain and paid.

6 players in       6 players picked

In general, class the thing up.


Gary_Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2004, 10:18:32 PM »
Is the Ryder Cup suddenly a joke just because the USA team lost?  Things were pretty good in Brookline except for some rowdy fans and an unsportsmanlike display from the USA team after Justin Leonard's putt.

I think the Ryder Cup excesses would have long been forgotten if the results of the matches were different.  We wouldn't be talking about the opening ceremonies or the other unrelated stuff.

Certainly a step in the right direction is to cut the USA team qualifying points to the previous 12 month period... just like the Europe team.

Nick Pozaric

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2004, 09:22:46 AM »
Good post Gary. The US is looking at a diff selection process.  And like you said if the US had won, none of these discussions would be taking place.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2004, 09:25:09 AM »
Nick,
I still think the Detroit opening ceremonies were a desecration of the great sport of golf.

Nick Pozaric

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup...has it become a joke???
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2004, 08:48:29 PM »
Nick,
I still think the Detroit opening ceremonies were a desecration of the great sport of golf.

I agree, i was embarresed to watch, Trump and the other celeb were horrible, especially reading their lines off the cards

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