[Doug Sobieski]

Shivas:

You are absolutely correct that it can and does happen. Take Stephen Keppler at Atlanta several years ago for example. He was and still is a club pro, and finished 4th if my memory serves me correctly. For the sake of my curiosity, who was your buddy? I'm guessing that I was working there at the time, and am trying to refresh my memory.

Doug

[Guest]

With all the discussion on driving distance, quite frankly what is just as mind boggling to me is iron distances.  What stands out in my mind was Tiger's second shot on 13 in the final round of last year's the US Open.  He had something like 273 left - and he flew a two (or was it a three?) iron hole high!

I remember the days when Jack hit 5 iron from 175.  Now 175 frequently is an 8.  Yeah, the pros are bending the irons on the strong side, but these are still big distances.  

[John_Conley]

John V:
Thanks for doing the research, which actually supports my claim that Annika would not average 266 on the PGA Tour.

Adam:
I understand it is how many and not how far, but even Paul Runyon said that your ultimate potential is a direct function of driving distance.  Carrying that logic through, Annika will have a lot less room for error than an average male professional.

Here's another basketball analogy.  Some kid set a school record with 54 points last night when he drained 11 3s.  (High School)  Now when he goes to college, it won't matter that the stripe is fixed at 19'9" and that the hoop is still 10' or that the ball is the same.  He'll find the course conditions much more difficult when his defender is taller and reacts much quicker to get in his face.

Sobe's story about Damon Green is a good one.  Even Annika missed 20% of her fairways last year.  Let's say there is no penalty for doing so on the LPGA, and 1/2 shot on the PGA Tour.  I'm oversimplifying, but it doesn't change the point.  She'll give up 1.5 shots per round that she's not giving up already just because of the rough length alone.

[Matt_Ward]

I would hope people would highlight two different aspects into the discussion -- total distance versus the ability to carry the ball.

When you get "hot" fairways on the PGA Tour the total amount of distance achieved is somewhat stretched. I don't doubt many PGA tour players can carry the ball 260-265 yards in the air -- but ask them to do that at say 275-285 yards and I believe the field narrows considerably.

Just check out total driving distance stats and I think you'll find that carrying the ball is the real test of power because turf conditions can be so different and sometimes very beneficial. Case in point -- the distance Ernie Els was getting at the Mercedes Champiosnhips at Kapulua.

No doubt the distance that strong players are getting is increasing but to think that "everyone" is doing it is a bit much. Measure distance at sea level and when wind and turf are nonfactors. I don't doubt that the very top can do all the distance gain so many talk about -- but those numbers are not as great as many might think.

By the way I have also covered a full range of PGA Tour, Senior Tour (Champions) and LPGA events over the last 25 years so I view these things through personal observation as well.

[Paul Richards]

Matt:

Keep in mind that somewhere I read that Ernie Els hit a ball that traveled in the air 7 seconds!  If you think about it, that is rather amazing!!

Crunch!!
One-mississippi
Two-mississippi
Three-mississippi
Four-mississippi
Five-mississippi
Six-mississippi
Seven-mississippi
ball lands!

[A_Clay_Man]

I feel that going deeep is not a bad thing for the game. Some argue about the ever increasing size of the canvas, needed to stay current, and even bigger more expensive facilities out in to the furture are going to be prohibitive. I say what is wrong that? To me it implies that the house lined fiascos of the last 50 years may cease to be built. (that won't suck) And then only courses where the emphasis on golf will win out, built by the lovers and dreamers who carry the platitudes of this enigma forward.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Driving distance is one thing........
Vijay has 219 left in Phoenix on Sunday he smooths a 5 IRON to about 10 feet and drains the putt.  

Come now....these guys are hitting their 5 irons as far as most Saturday hacks can hit their driver.   Not only are these guys good, they are using training methods and equipment that simply make a mockery of today's golf courses.  

For those of us who simply want to go out and tee it up for a few bucks on the weekends, the game is fine but the pro's and upper level ams need to be reined in.  Lighten their golf balls and let's get back to playing golf instead of laser tag.

[Steve Okula]

 I wish this whole topic of men vs women would go away with everyone realizing that men and women are just made differently, WHICH IS OK!  Neither sex is superior to the other, just different.

Jeff F.

Vive la différence!

It's good to see more golf pros posting here.

[corey miller]

Professional baseball uses wood bats and amatuer uses metal.  why can't the pros just use different equipment as a mandate for participating in the tournaments.  The major companies could still sell to the masses.

I do know if metal bats were used in professional ball a few pitchers would probably be killed.

[Bill_McBride]

I just got an interesting tidbit from Fred Funk's caddy via a mutual friend.

Fred averaged 260.2 yards in 1997, finished 164th on tour.

He averaged 273.0 yards in 2002, finished 163rd!

So he added 12.8 yards per measured tee shot, getting the most out of new driver and golf balls --- but so did everybody else!

So why am I not 12.8 yards longer with my Ping ISI driver and my Pro V1 golf balls?

[A_Clay_Man]

The Competion ball took a hit today in the windy conditions in the desert. As the final round of the Hope proved, a guy who hits it to the moon, still has to think his way around a golf course. And execute the finese shots under the pressure of leading on Sunday.

[Paul Richards]

For a lot more info on this topic, see the other thread entitled "Interesting Comment by Mickelson."

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