[John_Conley]

Thought I'd chime in real quick on the golf I played in New England with absolutely ideal weather.  Oh yeah, and I missed yet another hurricane.

Wintonbury Hills
This is known to many because of Dr. Brad Klein's involvement with the city of Bloomfield Hills in getting a municipal course ready for play.  Designed by Tim Liddy under the Pete Dye badge, the site was not their first choice and is less than ideal.  Despite a rugged hilltop, powerlines, wetlands, and land constraints - for example, the driving range is about a third of a mile down the road - Wintonbury Hills is delightfully playable and intrigues the player with ground game options not found on many new courses.  Fairways tend to be wide and the greens are almost as wild and kooky as Sand Hills'.

The Ranch
Add up '666' and you get 18.  This 18 was my first trip around a track designed by Damian Pascuzzo.  For lack of a better name, I will now call doglegging short par 4s offering a big advantage for long-hitting risk-takers as Enghfers.  (Anyone who has seen the par fours at Sanctuary knows the origin of this moniker.  The Ranch has about four Enghfers (#2 and #6 on the front, at least one, maybe three on the back!) and two KRAZY downhill par 5s (#9 and #16) that evoke memories of Kapalua Plantation.  Immaculately groomed but offering no level lies, I loved it.  A few holes left me scratching my head... yet dying to get another crack at their wackiness.

The Orchards
Unusual site of the 2004 U.S. Women's Open - the clubhouse is hardly big enough for a foursome to have lunch - the Orchards is a sweet Donald Ross layout with a nice blend of long-short, easy-hard, fade-draw, up-down, and plain-busy.  Put simply, great design balance.  A clear strength is that it is very rewarding of shots executed according to plan, but rather penal on misses.  Many modern longer courses have been stripped of character.  This is a direct and distinct contrast to the modern work of Fazio, Hills, or Rees.  In keeping with the theme of the trip, flat lies are a rarity.

Longmeadow
It had been 7 years since I'd played this course and it was every bit as good as I remembered, maybe better.  Knowing that this has fallen off the Golfweek "America's Best" says a lot about the 100 courses on the list; Longmeadow is a solid 7 in Doak parlance.  (Whether Tom Doak afforded this ranking, I know not.)  Home to the 2005 U.S. Junior that will be televised on ESPN.  Make a point to watch if you want to see a great par 70.

Next year may be Taconic, Crumpin-Fox, Pittsfield, and Whitinsville.  It sure seems like there is a lot of great golf in the area.

One final thought, the Orchards has a lot of similarity to Eau Claire - the course I have called "The Best Course You've Never Heard Of".

[Steve Curry]

Bill beat me to it, John, that's the central Mass tour you took.  

We out here in the Berkshires are the true Westerners.  Here in the Berkshires we have two other tracks that would probably pique your interest, Stockbridge Golf Club and Wyantenuck Country Club.  Both very well maintained and great classic character, not to mention two wonderful Berkshire towns in Stockbridge and Great Barrington.


Steve

[Scott_Burroughs]

What part of western or central Mass. is Wintonbury Hills in again?  

[John_Conley]

Redanman:

Olde Kinderhook: is that the newish private club in Albany?

I gather you are calling Springfield something other than Western.  I've been to Pittsfield for a wedding once.  It is just a tad W of where I was, no?

Bloomfield is obviously in Connecticut, but for me it was a Mass weekend as I stayed in Longmeadow.

Is Berkshire Hills the old Stiles/Van Kleek course just a few miles S of Pittsfield near Lenox?  I know there is a resort course there.

JOHN

[DTaylor18]

John, there is a resort course there called Cranwell.  Probably not a course worth visiting, but the resort is nice.

Thanks for the course update, there are some interesting names on your list.  I have been a proponent of the Ranch for some time now.  A lot of people on here don't love it, but i thought it was a lot of fun.  Is it perfect, no, but there are some fun holes including, as you mentioned, the ski slope par 5's.  it is also an extremely well run palce, which is why they charge so much for that area.

glad you liked the Orchards.  You know how much i love it there.  The clubhouse is very small, it is really a pure golf club.  The balcony overlooking 6 holes is unbeatable as an after round watering hole.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Defending John, The Ranch, The Orchards, and Longmeadow ARE in the western 1/3 of Mass. geographically.

This reminds me of the the New Jersey guys who say Princeton isn't north Jersey.  Technically, it's in the northern half of NJ geographically, but "locally" it ain't north Jersey.

The real question is, do you still talk funny like the folks in E. Mass and N. Jersey?  

[Ken Fry]

John,

I grew up in Western Mass.  There are some excellent courses.  The views of the surrounding Berkshire Hills and Green Mountains are something I miss in the flat midwest!

Courses in Pittsfield:  Berkshire Hills - Tillinghast design, Country Club of Pittsfield - Ross design.

Williamstown:  Taconic - Styles & van Kleek

Lee:  Greenock - little know Ross 9 hole gem

Lenox:  Cranwell - Styles & van Kleek, use to be much better but development around the course has changed some of the design.

All these courses are out in Berkshire County (what it seems most people are calling WESTERN Mass.  Let me know if you need any other info.

[John_Conley]

Defending John, The Ranch, The Orchards, and Longmeadow ARE in the western 1/3 of Mass. geographically.

Thanks, Scott.  It looks pretty darn far W to me.  I just checked another map.  I was in the Western part of Massachusetts, even if it is not "Western Mass" in someone else's parlance.

Quick, name the city where you'll find the following schools:
West Florida
North Florida
South Florida
Central Florida

The term "South Florida" is often used to describe the 3-county area of Dade/Broward/Palm Beach.  But you could be in Immokalee and be in the South of Florida.

Answers:
Pensacola
Jacksonville
Tampa?
Orlando

Now, "Central Florida Community College" is then where?  Near Ocala, of course.

Anyway, thanks to Mr. Fry I have some others to seek out!  How does Greenock compare to others?  Is it good, or just fair?

Pictures of Olde Kinderhook look pretty good to me.  I'd like to see it some time.

[THuckaby2]

Similar geographic oddities occur out here in CA.  In the local way of looking at things, really anything north of San Luis Obispo is considered "Northern California".  But if you made the distinction purely based on latitude, it's hard to call even San Francisco truly north!  There's a huge northern part of the state that gets little attention, as such is dominated by SF and LA.  Such is life.

In any case, interesting brief writeups, JC.  It all sounds great to me.  You also picked a darn good time to get away from Florida.  

TH

[Mike Benham]

Similar geographic oddities occur out here in CA.  In the local way of looking at things, really anything north of San Luis Obispo is considered "Northern California".  But if you made the distinction purely based on latitude, it's hard to call even San Francisco truly north!  There's a huge northern part of the state that gets little attention, as such is dominated by SF and LA.  Such is life.

In any case, interesting brief writeups, JC.  It all sounds great to me.  You also picked a darn good time to get away from Florida.  

TH

Just to keep this off topic, which is what Huck does best, here is a link to a map of California to demonstrate his point ... it also is a map showing the epicenter of the earthquake we just had 10 minutes ago ...

http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/

[THuckaby2]

 

I'm on the 23rd floor of a high-rise here in Oakland.  We felt the earthquake BIG TIME.  The building was most definitely swaying.  But we all survived and the world shall still get its bleach.

They must have damage down where the epicenter was...

In any case, thanks for the map.  My very much off-topic point was that it's hard to call SF "northern" CA looking at such a map, but yet we do... just as other states call things Western or whatever that really aren't.  Just supporting Mr. Conley in his efforts here, you know.

OK, so hurricanes in the east, earthquakes in the west... are freain' locust plagues that far off?

TH

[THuckaby2]

Right on!  Or so it seems....

We really do need three different states.  SoCal (Mexican border through SLO), Northern California (Santa Rosa northward) and REAL California (the rest).

 

[Ken Fry]

John,

It's been many years since I've been on Greenock.  Growing up in that part of the world as a younster, you think all courses were done by Donald Ross or look like they were!

I'll echo Steve Curry's comments about Wyantenuck and Stockbridge.  Steve would be a very good consultant as he is in the area and I have not been back in a long time.

There is another course in Dalton named Wahconah Country Club.  Wayne Stiles did the front nine in 1925 and Geoffrey Cornish completed the back nine in 1959.

[DTaylor18]

I have heard some good things about Wahconah.  Clearly Taconic is the gem in the area.

[Dan_Callahan]

I heard a rumor that The Ranch, which has been struggling financially, had gone under in recent days. Can anyone confirm?

I played Wintonbury yesterday and it was in terrific shape. It they've allowed me to take a cart on the fairways so that I could actually use the GPS for more than just the neat graphics. Among those of you who have played there, have you ever seen a course with greens that are as difficult to hold? The greens aren't incredibly fast, but it is nearly impossible to get a ball to spin on them. I usually back up my sandwedge a considerable distance, but at Wintonbury, the best I can do is a hop followed by an awful lot of trickle. I don't know if it has something to do with how the greens were built. . . ?

[John_Conley]

Dan C.:

Paths only is no fun for sure.  We walked.  I thought they were firm and I see you found them that way as well.  My guess is they are that way for two main reasons - new and elevated.

[SPDB]

Everything W of Boston is Western Mass. Not too dissimilar from the New York City rule that everything N of 125th St. is Upstate NY.

But perhaps the best (and most accurate) expression of geographical relation to NYC -

[Brad Klein]

Hey, the Western Mass. Section of the PGSA includes most of Connecticut, so if JC wants to include that area and Kinderhook in his Western Mass. trip that's fine with me.

At Wintonbury, superintendent Greg DuBois keeps everything lean and mean, and there's no thatch layer or over-watering to rely on, so you have to run the ball in. It's only 6,620 yards, par-70 (125/70.9) so the difficulty has to be somwehere, and there it's in the greens.

Interesting how Crumpin Fix is now surpassed, and Danbury's Richter Park hardly has any reputation anymore.

Steve Curry's Berkshire Hills is a certifiable, gem, with great longer holes on the front and some neat, intimate holes on the back. I can't think of a Tillinghast course that would be so dramatically transformed by a thoughtful restoration.

Greenock still has loads of character, one of New England's better Ross 9-holers. Cranwell is also wonderful, esp. the 11 or so Stiles and Van Kleek holes that are still preserved.

[Steve Curry]

Wahconah, I should catch hell for not mentioning it.  Wahconah has a front 9 that rivals Taconic for Stiles and Van Kleek character and quality and a less so back, routing - S & V with the construction done under Cornish supervision.  Though the back ends solidly with a long 4 par 16, tough 3 completely fronted by a massive bunker for 17 and a fascinating 5 for the finish with a massive ridge to challenge the long drive and or second shot and huge green with an incredible complex

Steve

 

[RDecker]

There is alot of fine golf here in Western Mass. and Berkshire County to be more specific.  All the above mentioned courses are worth a look.  Here at Greenock any GCAers are always welcome and I think the changes at Cranwell have definitely been for the worse but even so the back 9 still offers some of the finest golf in the county and probably the trickiest set of greens around.  The back 9 circa 1980 was in my estimation the best in the county.  Pittsfield is sporting a new set of Mark Mungeum bunkers and has virtually no Ross left but a good track nonetheless. Taconic , the Hills and Wyantenuck are extremely good and if you can manage a round during the fall foliage the eye candy is unrivaled.

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