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Jimmy Muratt

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Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« on: September 02, 2004, 04:08:37 PM »
Here's a good read from Ron Whitten regarding the Redan.  The main focus is the 7th at Shinnecock during the US Open.


The Redan Hole

by Ron Whitten

I really don't get it. One of architecture's most beloved par 3s - the Redan Hole, with its pitched, sloping green that runs right to left and front to back - became one of championship golf's most hated holes at the 2004 U.S. Open at Shinnecock Hills Golf Club. Players called it unfair, spectators gave it catcalls and golf writers termed it a travesty.

Doesn't anyone know how to play that hole?

I confess I did not attend the 2004 U.S. Open. What I know about the play on Shinnecock's seventh is based upon news reports and television coverage, particular evening wrap-ups on The Golf Channel, which seemed to delight in replaying various spinouts and pileups around the seventh green.

The 7th hole at Shinnecock was the center of controversy - and high scores - at this summer's U.S. Open.
Hardly anybody in the Open played the Redan the way it's supposed to be played. Most of the shots played to the seventh were fired at the flag. Balls ended up short, in the deep diagonal bunker in front of the green, some landed pin high and rolled downhill to the back left corner and many bounded past the flag and into the back bunker. If you know anything about architecture, you know the way to play Shinnecock's Redan hole is to aim at the top, the right front corner, regardless of where the pin is located, then let the ball roll onto the green and let gravity feed the ball down to the flag. In four days of network coverage (which, admittedly, did not touch much on the seventh hole, I saw only one golfer play the Redan that way. I also saw Phil Mickelson go for the flag, as did Tiger Woods and Ernie Els and many others. On Saturday, only 27 percent of the field hit the green. On Sunday, only 15 percent, but one of those was Tim Herron, paired with Tiger that day. Herron played it correctly, hitting short right of the green, bouncing it onto the surface and rolling it down to the hole, which was in the right center. Herron's shot stopped 15 feet away and he made his putt for birdie.

The problem at Shinnecock was exacerbated by the extremely harsh maintenance to its greens that week, cut to a tenth of an inch and then rolled for additional smoothness (and swiftness). With very little irrigation all week, the greens were stressed out, which became clear at the Redan hole on early Sunday. Kevin Stadler and J.J. Henry, in the group first out, both triple-bogeyed the hole, then watched a crew lightly water the putting surface as they left. Ain't fair, Stadler later said. "I don't know how they're going to justify having the golf course play equal. It was borderline unfair to start with, and then they made it softer for everybody right behind us."

For a time, the green was syringed between groups, then between every two groups. Just for a few minutes, enough to keep the grass cool and alive, not nearly enough to saturate the surface or reach grassroots. But players were certain that others were getting a spongy Redan, while they weren't. Chris DiMarco bogeyed, then watched the hoses come out after he left the green, and cursed at officials. "Everybody should have had the same thing. If you're going to syringe it for one group and not syringe it for another, I think that's wrong. It's not golf. It was wrong and I let them know that," he told Golf World magazine.

Query to Stadler, DiMarco and others: Should greens not be syringed during tournament play if the temperatures get so warm as to put the turf in jeopardy? So what if that little bit of water slightly alters the playing characteristics of the hole? Don't rain squalls do the same thing? Don't gusts of wind? It's an outdoor game, guys. Conditions change constantly. You complain about unfairness. Would you rather go back to the old days, when anytime it rained, the entire round was cancelled, including rounds already posted, in the interest of fairness? Of course not.

After the tournament, I spoke with Mike Davis, the U.S. Golf Association's Championship Director. It's always tough to maintain consistent green speeds when one green has considerably more contour than the other 17, he said. In hindsight, maybe the USGA should have mowed the Redan green at a higher cut. But I think the fact that this Redan was rock hard and mowed so tight as to look light brown from the tee ought to have persuaded some players, or at least their caddies, that they needed to be a bit more creative on their tee shots. Granted, conditions in a U.S. Open don't usually reward creativity. Just ask Seve Ballesteros. But it's a game of how many, not how.

DiMarco offered his solution to Shinnecock's Redan to Golf World magazine. "They just need to redo that green," he said. "The seventh hole had been sitting there for five years. There's one hole out of control every year [for a U.S. Open]. It's just unfair. It's not golf."

With due respect to DiMarco, who is a top-flight player and a nice guy to boot, the game will be poorer if we start going around obliterating classic old Redan greens because modern players can't play their usual game of darts on them. The Redan, originally created by Davie Strath at Scotland's North Berwick, and popularized in the United States by C.B. Macdonald and Seth Raynor some 90 years ago, has withstood the tests of time, through hickory shafts, steel shafts and graphite, through gutta perchas, Haskell balls, balata and now solid ones. If the game is indeed returning to its old bump-and-run, play-it-along-the-ground roots, then Redan holes ought to be cherished and trumpeted, not bulldozed into submission.

Forty years ago, a great many Redan copies on American courses did have their features altered. Greens were reduced in size to accommodate the turning radius of riding mowers and to fit irrigation heads for automatic sprinkler systems. Deep bunkers were filled in to allow the use of motorized rakes and to permit older golfers egress. Luckily, the land forms themselves, always looking like the listing bow of a sinking ship, were retained, and in recent years many a Redan par 3 has been reclaimed. They've done so at the Seth Raynor-designed Blue Mound Golf and Country Club (where once the back portion of the green contained a row of spruce trees), and are attempting to do so at Somerset Country Club in Mendota Heights, Minn., where the Redan is just about the only remaining evidence of Raynor's original layout.

If DiMarco is correct, and every U.S. Open has at least one "out of control" green each year (think of the 18th greens at Olympic and Southern Hills), then the solution is to raise the height of cut on those greens, not dig up those putting surfaces and flatten them. Especially not a classic Redan green.

Golf holes exist for players - whether championship caliber or high handicap hacker - to analyze a correct manner of play, and then execute that manner. Firing at the flag should not be the correct manner of play very often, and should never be so on a Redan.

One last note about Shinnecock's Redan in the 2004 Open: Retief Goosen was one of only six players to par the Redan hole all four rounds. Not surprisingly, he won the championship. People attribute that to his deft putting, but I think it had a lot to do with game management, too. With four pars on Shinnecock's tough Redan, Goosen obviously knows how to analyze and execute.

link to article:  http://tinyurl.com/53mmg
« Last Edit: September 02, 2004, 04:09:49 PM by Jimmy Muratt »

Rick Shefchik

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Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2004, 04:30:37 PM »
So about 90 percent of the golfers good enough to make it to the U.S. Open were too stupid to figure out -- in two or four tries -- how to properly play one of the most famous par 3 holes in golf?

I know TV showed just a couple of players executing the proper shot, but isn't it fair to surmise that many others at least tried to play it the right way, but couldn't pull it off?

My guess is that there was a five-foot square area on which you could land your ball and have it roll onto the green and not roll off. That even 10 or 15 percent of the pros on any given day managed to execute that shot speaks volumes about their talent. I simply don't believe that a player as smart and as talented as Tiger Woods spent four days trying to drop a ball in the middle of the 7th green and cursing the golf gods because it wouldn't hold.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Brent Hutto

Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2004, 04:31:14 PM »
I believe Whitten has it just right. While watching the hole being played on TV I thought there must be some reason that the traditional approach to a Redan green was being avoided by player after player. It appears the only reason was that one player after another thought it his right as a top-level professional to stop a ball on the green by the hole regardless of how the hole was designed and maintained. I guess if they played a big-time tournament at North Berwick they'd insist that the Redan be flattened and the wall on 13 dynamited, to boot.

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2004, 04:41:21 PM »
I can guarantee you that the members at Shinny have no intention of changing that hole and would doubt that even the USGA would not advocate any changes.  The statement by Chris Dimarco is amazing, I lost a little respect for him just now.

Regarding the 7th, I've played that hole many times and never figured it out.  In fact, I pretty much have given up on hitting the green and try to leave myself the best possible place to chip (front or back left) depending on the pin location.

Tom_Doak

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Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2004, 04:46:16 PM »
I agree, and I don't.

I wouldn't change the hole for any amount of money.  But I don't think the slope in front of the green allows you to play the bank shot from the right with any high percentage of probability ... and if you aim for that spot and the ball takes one big bounce, you're over the back right and looking at double bogey, or worse.  They weren't trying the "proper" shot because there was too much risk ... they'd rather miss down the back left or in the front bunker, and not make worse than 4.  [unless they chipped past the hole coming up the hill like Phil]

It isn't the best example of the Redan, and it was slightly too firm and fast on the last two days.


Dan Bock

Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2004, 04:52:52 PM »
The design was not the problem - it was the conditions created by the USGA!

I'm sorry but those guys are good (as the PGA commercial says) and on Saturday (I think) to see Vijay Singh float a beautiful iron onto the front of #7 and watch it trickle (and I mean trickle not roll) over the green and down the slope is a tricked up hole in my eyes.  Mickelson's 3-putt was ridiculous as well.  The USGA (like some of the other golf associations I have seen) always seem to want to "leave their mark" rather than letting great golf courses play the way they were designed.  The USGA likes to get very close to the line and in doing so they sometimes cross it as in this case.

I bet the greens at North Berwick don't roll at 12+ on the stimp.

They watered the green on #7 because it was almost unplayable, not to keep the grass alive - Dimarco had a good point - they should have figured it out before any players got there.

Matt Kardash

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Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2004, 05:44:44 PM »
The reason no one used the right bank was because of that up slope in front of the green. Probably 9 out of 10 players who hit just short of the green didn't get a bounce forward because of how the green is elevated. And if a player missed there then he had an almost impossible chip down the hole. So, in actual fact the percentage play was to try to go long and left and make some kind of chip and putt from there.

The hole would be better in my opinion if the fairway short right of the green was elevated higher than the green with a downslope to the green. That way you could really feed the ball onto the green.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Bob_Huntley

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Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2004, 06:12:43 PM »
I second Tom Doak's take on this one.

It was not the hole, but the usual arrogance of USGA Committee men assuming that they are the best arbiters of what is needed as a test of Championship golf. The same organization butchered the greens at Pebble Beach on Sunday in 1992, produced apoplexy with their treatment of Olympic's 18th green in 1998, and then Shinnecock this year.


A_Clay_Man

Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2004, 06:25:42 PM »
Whitten's got this one right.

And all those blaming the usga, are you really sure they were "in-charge"?

Bob-Was MM they same super in '92?

Rick- If there was the five foot area you claim was there, why shouldn't the pros hit that spot? Heck, I have seen more whining out of supposed superior playes because they miss their spot by less than a foot than I care to remember.

The open was the most exciting in years and it didn't end in a playoff, the same way the pga championship did, or as a majority of tour events have, recently.

Goosen's shot on eleven was one of the best of the week. All he got was a smattering of applause, completely unwiorthy of the fine shot he had played that Sunday.

Rick Shefchik

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Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2004, 06:46:34 PM »
Adam -- The wind was blowing a bit on Saturday and Sunday. :)

And yes, wind should be a factor in golf. I just wanted to see the hole play the way it was designed to be played, and not just by three or four guys out of 150 who were either surreally fabulous that week (Goosen) or just lucky.

Again, we're talking a matter of degrees here. I've said all along I generally liked the course setup. Seven simply became a bit too much. My main point with my initial post here, however, was to dispute Whitten's asertion that the pros were all firing robotically at the flag as though they expected the ball to stop there. I don't think that was the case at all.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

George Pazin

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Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2004, 08:44:00 PM »
Didn't Johnny Miller indeed say repeatedly that no one was trying the required shot - but that the required shot in his mind was a high soft cut against the bank?
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

wsmorrison

Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2004, 08:57:00 PM »
I hope everyone keeps in mind that the Flynn tee was not used to play to this Flynn green and has not been used in years.  The Flynn tee was obsoleted at some point and the club went back to using the Macdonald/Raynor tee.  Although only 10 paces or so to the left, the Flynn tee would enable shots in to the right side bolster to help hold the green even under conditions pushing the envelope.  With modern grasses and the conditions the USGA imposed upon the club, the green was pushed a bit too far especially so from the tee they played from.  I hope that in the future the Flynn tee is restored.  The removal of trees on the location of the Flynn tee has been done for some time now and should give the club the impetus they need to bring this tee back into play.

wsmorrison

Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2004, 09:00:35 PM »
I also heard that the players overwhelmingly chose the wrong strategy to play the hole.  I doubt the club will change the green, if they do we should form a human circle around the green and prevent any changes.  I think Johnny Miller got it right, this time.  I also agree with Rick, the hole should be played the required way (specific shot testing by design) and from the proper tee.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2004, 09:18:23 PM »
Got it Rick, Thanx.

Whittens major point seems to echo many who've been saying for along time, that the loss of shotmaking, is a real detriment, and one that was highlighted by the severe set-up.

They also failed to display their superiority(mental) on #10.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2004, 10:14:18 PM »
A lot of good points and more reason to appreciate Whitten as a writer--He is still the same GREAT wrtier I have always appreciated, even though I disagree with a lot of things he says and does or at least the way he goes about things.

My disagreements are much the same as Rick's, Tom's and Wayne's. The tee needs to be reconfigured to its original Flynn placement as well as the atention to detail on how its prepared just for regular member play--The USGA should follow it from there, and realize that they need to protect the architecture instead of trying to test the World's Best and protect par.  They would have to take into consideration that the Redan is--and in complete disagreement to the one-sided views of Johnny Miller--a hole with options. Holding an Open at Shinnecock as well as any major golf tournament is supposed to identify the best player--the one who executed all of the shots and executed the right type of game. Ron is right. Retief Goosen did exactly that and Phil Mickelsen wasn't far off either. It was exciting to watch the two of them battle it out.

Still we can't forget that what was lost here was the USGA's inability to allow the golf architecture to control the style of pla. But one thing that Ron doesn't point out is the inability of Tom Meeks, the lies of Walter Driver, and the inability of David Fay to properly handle the situation, Tim Morghan may be somewhat at fault too. More then anything, all of them for not wanting to take the first and right step in putting their foot down and stop the out-of-control situation when they had the chance.  A lot of mistakes and no one to be held accountable for any of it.

But we are all human. We all do make mistakes. Its just you think these people would have learned something from Olympic and Southern Hills.

Jerry Kluger

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Re:Ron Whitten's defense of the Redan
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2004, 10:08:43 AM »
I was disappointed that more players, including Els, weren't more imaginative in how they played the 7th, and for that matter, the rest of the course.  Whitten's point about issues with greens at most opens reminds me of number 10 at Congressional in 97.  The members play it as a par 5 while the USGA moved the tees up and played is as a par 4.  With water right, bunkers and deep grass left, and a swale down the middle of the green, players who went at the pin usually wound up with a bogey or double bogey.  Els, the eventual winner, played short of the hole on Sunday, and chipped in for birdie.  I believe he did that intentionally as he recognized how to play the hole and excecuted his plan very well.  I was surprised that he, and for that matter others, did not play a bit more convservatively on the front this year.

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