[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Charlotte Golf Links was fun and worth the $.

JWK

[John Nixon]

While The Fort is IMO one of the best courses in Indy, I would be surprised if you can still get on there for $50. Maybe a twilight rate....

[Andy_Lipschultz]

Old Works
Rustic
Tokatee
Wailua

Of course, locals in Hawaii play most of their courses for under $50. A couple years back Poipu Bay was around $30 and Prince was about $50. I think Wailua was around $12. It's enough to make you get a fake I.D. before you go on vacation.

[Scott_Burroughs]

It wouldn't surprise me one bit that this list was another Golf Mag list the editors threw together (like the Best 45 in the last 45 years list was), with no input from the GM raters.  Yes, this is very midwest-centric, mainly why I've played so few.  My travels have rarely taken me to the midwest.

BTW, I've played 4:

Pacific Grove
Rustic Canyon
Wailua
Draper Valley

Over half of the posters on this thread play the majority of their travel golf comped...could that have anything to do with the lack of searching out affordable courses

Hmm...  Of the 8 rounds of golf at public courses this year (not counting my home course), I paid at 7 of them, 5 for $25 or less.

[THuckaby2]

I've played 7.  Wish I could get to more.  Not many are in or near CA, sadly.  In the interest of full disclosure, given we are examing the rating system again:

4 - Wild Horse - paid
11 - Black Mesa - comped
21 - Riverdale Dunes - paid
28 - Rustic Canyon - comped once, paid many times thereafter
42 - Pacific Grove - I am busting up at the thought of getting comped there - paid obviously
45 - Wailua - paid
49 - Papago - paid

I am generally with Mr. Cirba re public courses, in that the only time I'd seek special treatment is if it's a pain in the ass to get a tee-time, and a nice guy makes it happen for me (ie Tommy N. at Rustic for me) or it it's part of a group outing and a nice guy makes that happen (ie Mike Nuzzo at Black Mesa).  In those cases, when they tell me the round is comped, I find it kinda weird to then demand to pay.

In any event I don't think whether I paid or not effected my feelings about any of these courses... but I'm sure John will tell me one way or the other!    For me, the issue of being comped doesn't exist at most of these... they'd have to be on the Best New or Best in US lists for that to even be possible, and for most of these, that likely happened right when they opened (like Rustic and BM) but thereafter it's not even possible, as they tend to not be on the Best in US nominee list.  So it really is a non-issue.

In any case in my mind they are all damn fine courses.  And yes, when it comes to bang for one's buck based on costs of other courses around it, Rustic remains the heavyweight champion of America.

TH

[RJ_Daley]

Doesn't Barona Creek have some twilight and specials for still about $50?  If so, I'd certainly put it on the list.

Since I've played very few on the list I can't really compare my regular hometown course, but for $38 non-res and $26 res, Brown County GC in Green Bay may be right up there.

[THuckaby2]

Doesn't Barona Creek have some twilight and specials for still about $50?  If so, I'd certainly put it on the list.

Since I've played very few on the list I can't really compare my regular hometown course, but for $38 non-res and $26 res, Brown County GC in Green Bay may be right up there.

RJD - I think the rules are that normal fees have to be $50 or less.  But hell, get Barona inside of this and I am with you - it is a damn fine course and belongs on any list one cares to compile.

BTW, I wasn't comped there either.  

TH

[HamiltonBHearst]

I can see no reason why a rater would not always pay at a public course.  Perhaps, Mr. huckaby has the answer, but in general these places should not even know you are a rater.  Now, how many of you raters "pay" at private venues?  Are you 7 for 8 Mr. Burroughs?  Is it insulting to the host to offer to pay for caddies?

[Mike_Cirba]

Now, how many of you raters "pay" at private venues?  Are you 7 for 8 Mr. Burroughs?  Is it insulting to the host to offer to pay for caddies?

I go expecting to pay.    

I always request a caddy if they are available and always pay for them.

I will normally buy a shirt or hat or something from the shop to show my appreciation.

[Allan Long]

I've played three - Rustic Canyon, Prairie Highlands, Wailua.

Was hoping to see more from this area on the list. I would think that Wilmington, Bryan Park and Tanglewood would fit the criteria.

[DMoriarty]

For the record, I can't remember ever being comped at ANY public course . . . .

Mike, I think this is precisely the point.  Why would the bulk of raters (you and the many other thoughtful posters here excluded) pay $40 bucks at a low profile public when they could get comped (and lunch?) at a high end monstrosity down the road?   With no comps at all, don't you think that many more raters would file in line behind you at the less known/ less expensive public?  

[THuckaby2]

I can see no reason why a rater would not always pay at a public course.  Perhaps, Mr. huckaby has the answer, but in general these places should not even know you are a rater.  Now, how many of you raters "pay" at private venues?  Are you 7 for 8 Mr. Burroughs?  Is it insulting to the host to offer to pay for caddies?

Hammy - as I say, the only times I've taken a comp at a public course are those in which the tee-time had to be set up for me (out of convenience, or as part of a group outing), and in connection with such, the comp was offered.  Maybe my etiquette is off, but refusing such at that point just seems wrong to me.  Outside of that, hell yes even when doing an official "rating" at a public course, it just seems more normal to make your tee-time and pay your freight, as you say.  That's what Mike does, that's what I do.  And remember, at least for me, most public course aren't nominated to be rated anyway.  Good lord, I must play at least 50 normal paid rounds on public courses for every 1 that I'm doing as part of a "rating."  Thus the whole thing seems a non-issue to me...

Now re private clubs, it's like this:  many I am required to "rate", and the only way to gain access is to call and ask them, and tell them what I am doing.  In that case, I just follow their rules.  If they say no, then that's that.  if they say yes, then what I pay is up to them, and I ask no questions.

As for offering to pay a host for caddies, jeez if someone hosts me I offer to pay for everything I possibly can.  I'd say it's normal to go overboard on the caddies, if they are part of the deal.  As a guest, one just ought to be happy to be there period, and payment should just be a given.

Hopefully this makes sense.  I think I do this properly...

TH

[Evan Fleisher]

1...4 courses for me.

2...Can't think of any to add at this time except maybe Manakiki in Cleveland, Ohio.

3...Yes, Aldeen in Rockford is less than 2 hours away.

[THuckaby2]

For the record, I can't remember ever being comped at ANY public course . . . .

Mike, I think this is precisely the point.  Why would the bulk of raters (you and the many other thoughtful posters here excluded) pay $40 bucks at a low profile public when they could get comped (and lunch?) at a high end monstrosity down the road?   With no comps at all, don't you think that many more raters would file in line behind you at the less known/ less expensive public?  

Dave:  Obviously we discussed this at length before.  It seems to me to remain a non-issue, because at least the way GD does it, one's choice of courses is pretty much predetermined... You are assigned new ones to do, and there's no distinction between cheap and expensive, public and private.  Outside of that, on the Best in the US list, well there just aren't many $40 and under courses nominated period.

So you make a good logical point:  it is normal to go for the maximum "value" when choosing between courses, and in that case the lowered priced ones might get overlooked.

But you have to understand the lower-priced ones don't tend to be nominated at all... so the point is moot...

And in the odd case that they are nominated, well hell yes they get their proper due, because they stand out so much, most raters want to see them just to find out why.

TH

[Jim Sweeney]

Played eight.

Have not played The Fort in INdy- less than two hours away.

Two KY courses on the list- Old Silo and Lassing Point. Both good courses but IMO not as good as Kearney Hill in Lexington. A Pete and PB muni you can walk for $23.00. Host to the 1997 US Publinks and soon (hopefully) the women's Publinks. Conditioning has been an issue but it is improving and now on par with Lassing.

[HamiltonBHearst]

Mr. Huckaby-From your description, I would say you do things properly also.  

[THuckaby2]

Mr. Huckaby-From your description, I would say you do things properly also.  

Thanks.  I do try and it is important to me.  To that end, I have had a lot of good teachers, several of whom frequent this board.

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

Are you 7 for 8 Mr. Burroughs?  Is it insulting to the host to offer to pay for caddies?

Paid at 2 of 5 new private venues this year.  One told me up front that I was "all set", although I paid for the forecaddie.  Other two I offered to pay, but one host refused (this was after the round), the other club said I was all set (I was playing with a local pro).  3 had caddies, paid and used on two, on other, only 1 person in group used a caddie, and I was fully expecting to pay for the round itself, but he was the guy who refused afterwards.

[Jeff Shelman]

I've played six on the list:

Willingers
Lassing Pointe
The Fort
Piper Glen
Papago (though it was 10 years ago)
Aldeen

I personally think Willingers is a bit too high on the list. It's pretty good, but not that good.

I agree with Jim Sweeney about Kearney Hill being a good pick for the list. Another that could/should be on the list is our guy Jeff Brauer's The Legacy just outside of Des Moines. I don't know what the rates are at Lawsonia these days (maybe they've snuck over $50), but both courses are very solid. Another good one is Stone Creek in Urbana, Ill. It's $35 to walk, $50 to ride.

And while we can all sit here and complain about certain courses not being on the list and certain courses being on the list, I applaud Golf for doing this list. Part of the game's problem is that there are simply too many courses with triple-digit green fees, especially when many of those courses are barely worth $50. As someone who travels quite a bit (and gets to play some golf when on the road), these are the kinds of places I look for. Now it doesn't have to be under 50 bucks, but I'm not a big fan of paying more than 75 very often. If I do play someplace with generally higher rates, I usually play twilight.

While there are certainly places that are worth dropping big cash to play, I don't think the list of courses worth more than 100 or 200 a round is very long. Most of the time, I can get as much or nearly as much enjoyment out of a good 50 or 60 buck course.

[George Pazin]

Only 2 for me, Black Mesa and The Rawls Course. No surprise coming if you've read my posts - I'd put TRC way ahead of BM. On this list especially, as I'd assume golfers seeking out less expensive public courses are probably less capable as well (pure guess on this, but I'd be surprised if I were wrong).

Doesn't that list seem awfully biased (sorry, hate using the b word) toward newer courses? How many courses on the list are over 15 years old? Hard for me to imagine there aren't a lot of older courses that are dirt cheap that I wouldn't prefer.

[Mike_Cirba]

David Moriarty;

Huck said exactly what I wanted to re: choosing "value".  

A course is either nominated and is on the list to be evaluated or not, public or private, high-end or lower scale.  

The same works in the private category, as well.  I've played courses that cost $50 million to build and yet find myself rating them a full four points behind Wild Horse, for instance.

It's really about the golf course itself, not the associated flotsam and jetsam.

[JakaB]

For the record, I can't remember ever being comped at ANY public course . . . .

Mike, I think this is precisely the point.  Why would the bulk of raters (you and the many other thoughtful posters here excluded) pay $40 bucks at a low profile public when they could get comped (and lunch?) at a high end monstrosity down the road?   With no comps at all, don't you think that many more raters would file in line behind you at the less known/ less expensive public?  

David,

Thanks for the clarification...it is not even about raters...even if they do think the golfing world revolves around their opinion...Recently this poor non-rater was comped at Crooked Stick when I had a wedding to attend in Indianapolis....if I was a paying customer I might have played one of the thrifties on the above list....I didn't and now Crooked Stick is my number one rated course in Indy...fair...you bet.

[Rick Shefchik]

I will echo Jeff Shelman's comment about Willingers. It is the only course on the list I've played, and though I have nothing to compare it to except what I've read about some of the other courses listed, I was surprised to see it ranked 5th. Seems too high.

I've played there a half dozen times and I'd play again, but there are courses under $50 in the Twin Cities area I like just as much, if not more...some of the holes are kind of funky, contradicting the description in the magazine about "pure, straight-ahead golf," or whatever it said.

If you're in the area, by all means play Willingers. By today's prices, it's a good deal and a big golf course. I just wouldn't race across the country because GM rated it #5 on some list.

[JohnV]

I've played 7 of these.  I was comped at 2 of them, but only one of those was because I was a rater.  The other was at an outing where one of the architects invited a bunch of us to play for free without regard to who was a rater and who wasn't.  The one where I was a rater was only because someone else told them I was before I got there.

Eastmoreland in Portland should be on the list.  Also possibly Heron Lakes - Great Blue if it is still under $50.

[Dan Kelly]

I just wouldn't race across the country because GM rated it #5 on some list.

I wouldn't race across the county.

If I were visiting the Twin Cities, I'd play Keller or University -- and save myself not only some green fees, but an hour of driving (at least).

If Willinger's is the No. 5 course in the country where the green fees are less than $50, we have a serious, serious shortage of good courses under $50 in this country.

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