[Tommy_Naccarato]

After Pete L. displayed some pictures of this course the other day, I felt it was time I finally got off my duff and posted some, including a color aerial I got from Mapquest before they shut down their access to the Global Explorer.

Here is a golf course that I feel gets little if any talk or deserving praise, and while its obvious with some of the more affluent nearby private clubs, I can't help to think that if I lived on Long Island, I would probably be frequenting Tallgrass alot.

This is a once flat turf farm, which Gil Hanse dug out a depression and created a feature that is reminiscent of a quarry wall that runs a great length throughout the property. This gave him the fill to create greensites and other movements, as well as other surrounding areas where he created some beautiful bunker work that is reminescent of a Heath or Moorland course in England.

The greens are of great interest, and when there last June, after being literally drenched for months with snow and rain, the course was in phenominal shape. It was raining even while I was there, but it didn't stop the people from playing on a Wednesday morning, as the course was packed with people. Some fo them I talked to play there as much as three or four times a week, they love it that much.

Sometimes here on GCA we talk of architects who were given flat sites and created something out of nothing. What Gil and Co. did here is nothing short of a miracle, when one sees the amount of movement in comparing it to the property that surrounds the entire area that was just like it before it was a golf course.

I know of a few GCAers who have visited here, but little is said of just how good the course really is.

for me, it brings back memories of a Moorland or Heath course like Sandy Lodge, and the holes are totally fun and strategic

Tallgrass in the grass.

#1 Green

#2 Approach

#3 Approach

#4 Redan

#6

#10

#11

#12

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy Naccarato,

It's a good question.

Pete L informs me that the golf course is a public facility in Shoreham, New York, and that it's quite a good golf course.

I intend to visit it this spring or summer.

I also don't understand why Applebrook doesn't get more recognition as well.

Perhaps some who have played the golf course can give us their assessment.  Do you know what the total acreage is ?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat,
I found myself when looking at this aerial, asking the same question because its not on a lot of acreage, yet, it seems as if there is ample space between most of the holes as well as there if any of them are close, one is elevated over the other.

It reminded me of looking at the use of land MacKenzie had when looking at the photos of the N.L.E. Bayside in New York.

I will find out exactly how many acres though. Does anyone want to take a guess?

[corey miller]

Tommy-I will give you the guess 95 acres.  For a really wonderful job that Gil did on very very limited acreage, look at the new nine at South Fork GC in your new summer home of Amagansett.

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy, this really does look like a fun course.  I'm curious about the drainage.  Where does the water go from that major depression which you can best see in the hole #11 photo?  The only Gil Hanse course I've played to date is Rustic Canyon so I'm favorably disposed to his design style.  I'm playing his Craighead course at Crail in May and look forward to a look at that.  How accessible is Tallgrass to out of town visitors, i.e. sleeping in the parking lot?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Corey,
If you need to get ahold of me, I'll be staying with the Speilberg's!  

Panhandle Bill,
I'm sure if you call the club and tell them your coming from out of town, special accomadations could be made. It doesn't seem like the same type of Rustic "I can't get through to them" crowd, but I can see why so many would want to play here all of the time. I mentioned to the head pro that we should in the future have a Rustic vs. Tallgrass Ryder Cup and his eyes lit up!

So are you going to take a guess on the acreage?

Meanwhile I'll find it out right now.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Not surprising, but very impressive photos. I regret I didn't have time to visit Tallgrass when I was on Long Island last fall. I look forward to my next opportunity.

I'd like know what the budget for Tallgrass was? If that was a dead flat turf farm, it appears there was quite a bit of dirt moved around and played with. Any idea Tommy?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Just got off the phone with Jim Wagner, and he's going to find out all of the details.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy,

The Spielbergs live in Easthampton, about $ 10,000,000+
from the Atlantic Ocean.

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy, if you could post a scorecard, it would be easy to scale off a hole on the aerial and calculate the dimensions in square feet / 43650 = acres.  Without that assist, I'll guess it's 700 yds x 1000 yds = 144 acres.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Pat, Whats a few Mil here or there amongst friends?

Bill, I would suspect that to be pretty close. I lost the scorecard I had from there, unless there is one on Long Island Golf.

Also, Tallgrass features one of the most innovative cart paths I have ever seen--its in the bunker! The huge one that flows along the 11th hole.

Also notice the old road that is on the South end of the Before aerial, was utilized as a bunker/waste area for the 5th.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tommy,
205 acs.
$55 before 2 o'clock, $48 after 2 , $35 after 4.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Redanman,

Actually, it's on Apaquoge (sp?) Way, which is $ 10,000,000+ from the ocean front properties.

[les_claytor]

WOW!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Thanks for the info Jim.

Its funny, when your out there, it doesn't look anything close to that many acres at all. Have you played it?

Les, is that WOW about the golf course or the price of East Hapton real estate?  

[David Kelly]

Tommy,
Can you compare and contrast Tallgrass with Rustic Canyon? Some of Tallgrass's green surrounds look similar to Rustic.

[Michael Goody]

tallgrass is on my list (and has been) of places to play.

hanse did do a very nice job at south fork cc fitting 9 new holes into a small space.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

David,
The contrasts are similar in the ideals of play: wide fairways offering all sorts of options and a wide use of natural contour and man-made contours that look totalaly natural. The greens are really good, but I would give the edge to RC there everytime.

Just to let you know, I can usually spot earthmovent with little or no problem. It wasn't until I captured the image yesterday off of Terraserver that I found out that the quarry-like walls were in fact man-made by Gil & Co. This is one of the great qualities you can see in great natural architecture--where you can't notice what is and isn't man-made.

The main difference between the two in their dress is that Tallgrass has many areas of tallgrass abounding the place not unlike Rustic has/had beore the fire with it vast native fauna. I also think you could play this course everyday and not get tired, but I also say that about Friars Head, and if given the choice, you can find me down straight down the road over there! (But I think you knew that already!)

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy, are #6 and #12 both short 4's?  They look REALLY short if so, and very inviting with trouble around the greens.

[Jeff Fortson]

I've played Tallgrass 6 times, 3 times in competition.  It is a fantastic course and one of the reasons I can't wait for KPIII so I can play Rustic.

#6, #10, #12 are all short par 4's and theoretically reachable.  #6 is the most reachable.

If you haven't played here and you have the opportunity you MUST play it.  It gets little press or accolades and I think it deserves much more praise.

#4 is Redan-like but not quite as angled or severe as most.  

#17 is a semi-blind 200+ yard par 3 with a fantastic green.  

#16 is a great dogleg right par 4 with a great green complex.

THe only eyesore and out of place thing on the course is the drainage lake on #15 the par-5.

Play this course.

Jeff F.

[SPDB]

Da Tomasso -

Haven't played there yet, but I have tried to (unfortunately, it keeps some pretty distracting company out there).

Is there a tee for #11 close 10 green? Looking at it from the air, it would seem a perfect spot for one as it would set up all sorts of interesting strategy. It would seem that it would force the really aggressive player to carry the huge hazard on the left for as long as he can muster in order to get a view of the green (and not have to carry either bunker or faux quarry wall). You see what I'm talkin' bout?

[SPDB]

Also Pat & Redanman -

Technically Georgica Pond is in Wainscott, and I'm not certain if Pat thinks Georgica fronting property is more or less than oceanfront prop. if he thinks less, he's more crazy than I thought.

$35 mil. will get you a nice spread on Georgica, and the kind of speedy drainage that haunts a golf course superintendent's dreams.  

[Jeff Fortson]

Sean,

The 11th tee is about 30 to 40 yards away from the 10th green due south.

#10 green is fantastic and has probably the smallest bunker I have seen in New York defending the front left corner.  10th green is thin and long with steep drop offs on each side.  It's a really neat grren.


Jeff F.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Tommy,

When I first played Tall Grass, I had never heard of Gil Hanse, yet the greens and bunkering gave this feeling of being at Merion. I started to do some research and saw that Bill Kittleman was a consultant to his company, and the pieces started to fit. I would rank it Top 5 of public LI behind Bethpage Black and Red, Montauk and competing with LI National. Mr Ward tells me I need to see Spring Lake however.

My guess is 130 acres, similar to Merion, but it never feels cramped out there.

Basically Gil Hanse and I believe Rodney was on on-site person, took a sod farm and dug out a big V type of wedge or boomerang along 2,3 and over to 11 (see long skinny bunkers)to create some elevation. It is a pretty interesting concept, and probably alot cheaper than moving the dirt on a hole by hole basis.

A couple of issues:

At 6500 yards, it is shortish and must be played from the back tees, but a couple of the distances get ackward especially 17 a Par 3. Maybe a 1 or 2 too many short 4's.

1 is a little too easy par 5.

6 a short reachable Par 4, not sure if the green is big enough to really go for it.

10 again the green is too skinny to hold a driver, but the layup off the tee is typically a 6 iron short and right of the fairway bunker for the best angle in. 12 however is a great short 4 to go for the green.

16 lines up ackwardly off the tee, and they had to put in a white OB stake in the rough right as too many players were going down 17 to cut off the angle.

If you go in the Tall Grass which has been cut way back, it typically swallows them up, which can be slow on a public course.

My business partner's office is nearby, so that is a frequent choice when we have a "board meeting".

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Sean,
I thought for sure you would have played this one. As a public daily fee, I cna't think of much better out there, but like you said--the other stuff out there tends to make one put the blinders on when traveling the expressway.

Mike,
What was it Captain Thomas said about a soft opener? But yes, I'm sure there are a lot of people putting or eagle on that green. I wonder how many of them end up with par?

You are correct, after talking to Jim Wagner earlier today he informed me that Rodney was the guy on this one. Hopefully if Rodney is by a computer tomorrow he'll chime in.

Looking at all of these pictures makes me want to them to get started on their Sandhills project ASAP! AS I said before, I think from a standpoint of a really cool looking and fun golf course Tallgrass fits the bill.

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