[Mike_Cirba]

Some recent unrelated discussions here have me wondering if what we really are all looking for are golf courses with "soul".

On one, a modern course designed by a famed architect was criticized for having "no soul", and characterized as "lifeless".

On another thread, Tim Weiman talked about a rough-hewn, unknown design in Ireland that he thought others here would appreciate despite admission that it was hardly a "great course" in the traditional sense.

Then I began to think about Painswick and other less than world-famous "great tests of golf" we've discussed here and I began to wonder if it doesn't somehow all tie together.  

Don't our favorite courses almost have their own personalities, their own peculiarities and individualities, their own "soul", despite their inanimate nature?

It isn't only age or history...some brand new courses exhibit "instant soul", while others that are generations old are still stale and listless.  

What do you all think accounts for this?  What factors converge to give a course its soul?  Is it some intangible, inscrutable, inexplicable combination of setting, natural features, and the alchemist hand of man that brings lifelike attributes to a golf course?

Somehow, the term "authenticity" seems to be integrally-related, but I'm still thinking that one through...

I'd love to hear what others think...

Thanks for wading through another "spiritually related" thread by yours truly!  

[Matt_Ward]

A course with "soul" in my book is one that ALWAYS inspires you. How does that aspect of inspiring occur? For me, it's the melding of never ending shot challenges linked to holes that weave effortlessly through the property. A course with "soul" never tires or bores you.

Clearly, courses with "soul" are meant for the long haul. They are not created to appease the current fad or moment.

Mike, I would add the qualities of constant thought provoking situations that never, ever become common and routine. A course with "soul" calls for you to invent and craft shots and to handle a range fo situations that never become trite or pedestrian.

A course with "soul" is like a woman who is never easy to discern but one you cannot wait to see again. I'm lucky to have married a "soul" mate and been dam lucky to have played a very special grouping of courses that have the quality you are speaking about.

[Scott_Burroughs]

other than history:

-presentation
-walkability (proximity of greens to tees, etc.,"walk in the park test")
-'natural golf site' (desert settings need not apply)
-management's commitment to the origins of the game
-remoteness/feel of remoteness
-players actually walking
-parents/children playing together
-non-snootiness (exclusivity is O.K.)


less so:
-appreciation of amateur golf
-openness to golf architecture/history lovers and students

[Tim_Weiman]

Mike Cirba:

Great question. I'm not smart enough to give a good answer.

But, I am reminded of something a close Irish friend said last summer following a round at Dooks.

Walking back from the 18th green, I said "I love this place...it is just so cool".

My friend replied with a puzzled look on his face: "yes, it doesn't deserve to be considered cool, but it just is".

So, what makes Dooks so undeserving and yet so cool. Why does it have "soul"?

For one thing, it stubbornly violates the rules playing to no more than 6,000 yards. It proudly reminds you that the game should be about fun. The course should be a pleasurable place to spend a few hours. Dooks proves to be an essay in how silly the golf technology arms race is.

Then, too, how many places can you find a short par 3, where you can land in the middle of the green and still four putt? Where is else is making par more of a triumph?

Finally, how many places can make you feel happier just to be alive? The setting overlooking Dingle Bay is just magic.

So, for me that is "soul": a place that doesn't follow the rules, a place with its own character and a place that makes you feel good to be sharing time with friends. For that, Dooks is hard to beat.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Can I use the old pornography defintion of knowing it when I see it?

I have studied a lot of porn....uh, courses, and for me it includes a dose of history,gobs of natural elements, and a sense that the course is happy to be what it is.

My soulful experiences come on historic courses when the weather is perfect for the place, and the sky a certain color blue, or even steel blue.  In some places, like Scotland, the weather has to cooperate with your image for a soulful experience.....

Mike mentions authenticity.  Probably no CCFAD can lay claim to being authentic, since by defintion, it is trying to copy the country club experience.  Many are attempts to outdo someone else, and by that standard never attain the zen like quality of comfort in what they are.

I often use the word "sincere" to describe designs.  I haven't played Rustic Canyon, for example, but whatever your opinions are, I suspect it is "sincere" since its minimalism reflects the site, and it is apparently strongly and unabashedly a second shot course.  So it does what it does without being self conscious about it in the least.  

Many older clubs, while technically not great designs perhaps, have soul/authenticty/sincerity because they are as comfortable as an old shoe in their role of "elder statesman" and play it well.  

[Phil_the_Author]

How about this,

A golf course can be said to have "soul" when, after playing it for the first time, you can't wait to bring someone back to show them what you "discovered". It is a golf course that, the more you play it, the more people you tell about. Finally, it is a course that you look forward to the day your son is old enough so that you can "share the experience with him."

[Mike_Cirba]

Some really great answers guys...

Jeff;

I was thinking of the word "sincerity", as well, and it's obvious that you've given this lots of thought from your answer.  I particularly like your phrase that a course with soul is simply "happy to be what it is", eschewing artifice or pretense.

As an architect, are there things you can try to do to "inject soul" into a course you're designing, or are there just too many factors outside of your direct control?

Personally, I find that many new courses that have soul also seem to have very heavy architectural detailed involvement.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

I'm deep.

Most courses - average sites, surrounded by houses, don't have a chance for great soul, even if they hired James Brown to sing behind the bushes.  

But, heavy involvement helps.  The soul injection comes from matching design elements to site qualities.  The architect must know enough - perhaps enough soul - to figure out what is best on a site, and then not overdo it.  Sometimes, that soul comes direct from the bottom of a bottle.  And the worm never gets credit as co-designer.

I take it your reference to detail refers perhaps to something like C and C bunkers versus smooth ones?   C and C put the perfect bunkers at Sand Hills for example, a perfect blend of their style and the site.  But  smooth bunkers can be happy what they are, and perfect for some other place....

In a funky way, I always thought Avocet captured the soul of Myrtle Beach - psuedo funky course in a psuedo funky place.  You wouldn't compare it to going to St. Andrews, but if you are going to Myrtle Beach, it is a place you would take your friends.

[GeoffreyC]

An additional factor would have to be those who have walked the grounds and played before us.  

Seminole and Century have soul from Hogan spending hours on the practice grounds and describing his play over certain holes.  

What could have more soul then St. Andrews with the ghosts of Alan Robertson and Old and Young Tom Morris looking over your shoulder.

Mike- At Pasatiempo this weekend you might see the good Dr. MacKenzie walking around in his pajamas and some beasts looking up from the barrancas.

This is part of the soul of any course.

[RJ_Daley]

I believe we all have differing senses of asthetics and skills.  So when it comes to defining what gives a golf course soul, it is so unique and dependent on our individual tastes and playing skills and preferences, that one man's soul links is another man's cow pasture.  It might be a disappointment if as Phil says above, we find a place that beckons us back time and time again, never disappointing, and then you can't wait to take your son or daughter to also experience that feeling.  Trouble is, the kid may not have the same set of triggers, and it may just be another one of Dad's quaint old places... :-/

All those intangibles of style, atmosphere, surrounds, details of playing challenges and charms, and sense of belonging, are recepticles that we plug into in different ways.  But, I also know it when I see it.  I just can't explain it. And, it occurs for me in vastly differing venues.  So there is no consistent explanation or list that I can produce.

[A_Clay_Man]

Using Einstein's theory I'd say that all courses have souls. Some, as Jeff so hillariously points out, some are great and others are ...um... not so great. Just like people. I think in this case(gca)we can safely assume art is imitating life.

Some places that fall into the not so great category leave you with that stale or dull feeling. But just as confusing there is probably some poor soul out there who feels that that same place has a great soul.

We were hanging Sheryl's first solo show yesterday with the gallery director at the college. This woman just so happened to be a golfer. As we were deciding on the flow and presentation I quipped how that if it's done right people won't even realize that they have been wowed by design. It's a natural process that when done properly goes unnoticed but when it's done poorly it really shows.

[Paul_Turner]

Nevermind SOUL.  

What golf architecture needs is some PUNK ROCK!  

The last decade with its CCFADs, was like some bloated 1970's concept album.  

We need the GCA equivalent of The Clash and The Pistols to blow things apart, and give us some real golf courses.

I miss Joe Strummer  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Paul,

I almost made an analogy to "Concept" Albums, too.  I remember the band Chicago.  They put out three albums of hard charging, bluesy, hornsy, rock and roll, and then decided they needed to be "deep."  They weren't.  Thats when they lost me.  Lyrics still marginal, tempo way down, whole thing awkward.

A good analogy.  To me, a concept course can't have soul either.  Just my opinion.  Acutally, Tripp Davis' Tribute here in Dallas comes real close, especially on one of those steel blue sky, blue northers days we get here in Dallas.

[Mark_Fine]

The answer to this question if there is one, will vary from course to course.  You don't walk off an Oakmont or Winged Foot West or The Ocean Course for example and think about the course having "soul".  You think about looking for a tourniquet!  You realized you just played a great golf course but the word soul doesn't necessarily come to mind  

[Ran Morrissett]

Does it boil down to strategy? If a course has tons of strategic merit, by definition, doesn't it have soul? I can't think of a single example where that's not true.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm enjoying this...

Geoffrey;

Can't you think of modern courses where Giants have never tread that still reek of soul?

Paul;

Wonderful analogy, but which modern architect is this generation's Elvis Costello?...a pioneer of a more stripped down, back to basics style who may have strayed experimentally for awhile, but is still adeptly capable and able to conjure up more magic in his little pinkie than most pretenders can with diligent effort?

Jeff;

Avocet and Chicago are both good examples of the kind of thing I'm thinking about.  Avocet is wonderfully reflective of a lot of unique things in the MB environment, and there was a time when Chicago's music would simply make you feel...thought was simply unneccessary.

Adam;

Great point about how the most soulful courses often take you through a sophisticated routing and magical mystery tour without any conscious thought on the golfer's part that they are along for the ride.  The word "effortless" comes to mind.

Mark;

Are you saying that a course that beats you up is generally without soul?  If so, what type of course fits your definition better?

Ran;

While it's true that most courses with soul are strategically oriented, I can think of plenty of courses that have lots of strategic options but the personality of Donald Rumsfeld.  

[T_MacWood]

I would disagree Winged Foot and Oakmont have plenty of soul in my book. When I think about the courses that have soul, and those that do not, I think of honesty. They don't have to be blessed with spectacular natural advantages (although it helps), they don't have to be the work of genius craftsmen (although it helps). But they possess a certain amount of honest naturalness and/or honest craftsmenship. The lifeless designs exhibit obstentatious decoration, the idealized often comes across as insincere bordering on vulgar.

John Ruskin observed, "In all things that live there are certain irregularities and deficiencies which are not only signs of life, but sources of beauty,...No human face is exactly the same in its lines on each side, no leaf perfect in its lines, no branch in its symmetry. All admit irregularity as they imply change; and to banish imperfection is to destroy perfection, to check exertion, to paralyze vitality."

[Forrest Richardson]

What gives a course its soul? The architect. It is he/she who uncovers the soul and guards against ruining what was there to begin with. It is he/she who manufacturers soul in its absence and need. Later, it is the cries of joy and defeat across the moors of fairways that continues the soul forever in our memory.

[johnk]

The most basic element of architecture is paramount, and easy to underestimate:

The ROUTING - a beautiful walk, avoiding too many contrived
tee shots - creating a few downhill tee shots, taking advantage of natural vantages, walkability, creating solitude yet with expanse.  The first tee, the last tee.  And finally the challenge laid out before you - variety in direction and shot requirements...

The routing is the window to the soul of the course.

[Jeff Fortson]

I would have to say that there a few elements individually or combined that give a course its soul in my book.....

#1 -  The Architect    -   When playing a course I can usually sense the being that created it and the presence he has left there.  For instance, when I play NGLA I feel like C.B. Mac is in that house across the water that he used to live in, watching me play through a telescope and laughing at every decision I make in regards to strategy and execution.  Even a modern course like PGA West gives me the feeling like Pete Dye has left his presence there.  I truly feel that a course is like a painting or a piece of music and usually embodies the feelings and vision of the person that created it.  ITS ART WORK!

#2 -  History  -   This can be anything from prestigious tournaments, matches, or stories of certain events.  I guess a good example would be the Masters.  ANGC would be a great golf course without the Masters but the Masters gives ANGC its place in so many of our hearts.  The tradition, Bobby Jones, and the drama are what etch it into my heart.

#3 -  The people that play the course  -  This could be as or more important from a personal outlook.  There are courses out there that mean so much to us as individuals that are not well known TRACKS (reference to the Track or Tract thread).  It could be a course you grew up on, are playing now, or both.  I have a place in my heart for some courses that would get slaughtered in this DG on their architectural merit yet they still mean so much to me.  They are places that I grew up playing a lot with my dad,  friends, or on a team.  I think ultimately these are the courses that last in our hearts forever.  Unless you are or were lucky enough to be a member of a prestigious club or live near a prestigious public facility this factor could be the most defining in giving a course its soul.


Jeff F.

[Andy Levett]

If architects were musicians...
Donald Ross = J.S. Bach: Prodigious output of timeless classics, considered old-fashioned by many for a while after his death before true merits rediscovered.
Dr MacKenzie = Beethoven: Learned from everyone's favourite (Mozart=Harry Colt) before taking his art to a new level which left some people scratching their heads at the time.
? = Rolling Stones: Used to be vital but now keep on churning out the same old stuff in a sad parody of their younger selves.
Jack Nicklaus = Liszt: Used great ability as a player as an entree to composing difficult works that best suited his own technique (Liszt played with a high fade). In later years as his playing ability faded his compositions became less one-dimensional

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I'm going to claim cowardice here because I selfishly waited to see what everybody else was going to post, so I could then post myself. I'm a bastard.

So here I go.

Yesterday I made a post to Jeff Brauer, going on aimlessly about a hole on a course that really introduced me to the word "strategy." I even went last night and captured and aerial of the course and of that paticular hole, had it all cropped and spruced-up to post, but then said to myself, "Nobody is ever going to understand what I'm posting here, they'll never be playing this course--EVER, and I'm not sure I want to admit it. It might just show how much of a golfing ghetto-slum that I'm from!"

Yet, if someone called me tonight and said they had a tee time for tomorrow, I would be there in nothing flat! (But more then likely would be ready for a wheel chair after four holes)

But quite obviously, there must be somethig out there that has a form of sprituality for me to want to go back. Unlike me to say this, but the course has more memories for me, from the times I have had there, instead of any assemblence of golf architecture to study. I think the place was an accident that happened, and it got really fun to play from there!

I can list a dozen-million memories on each hole on that course in the 20+ years I have played there. There was the time that Terry brought his neighbor on Saturday, who jokingly said, "Where is the first tee and what is the course record?" and then proceeded to the first tee where he pumped three out of bounds, into the houses.

There was the time Pat fired his tee shot on the 5th. It exploded off the tee, hit the white tee marker in front of it, and bounced back behind the tee box and into some rough just barely in front of the out of bounds. He proceeded try to blast his tee shot out of the thick grass--only got under it with so much spin, and it actually went backwards, again--this time, out of bounds!

There was the time we were on #15, and the lone neighboring house whose backyard abutted the right fairway had an unattractive hazard of two doberman pinchers that barked fiercely when every you got as close as twenty feet away. Imagine my surprize one day when I underestimated the safety of the backyard fence, and the dogs chased me down past the 17th hole.

This was the place where I learned to never say, I got it now! on a golf course.

The point being with all of this is that a golf course can dictate experience not just form the architecture, but the friends, family, aquaintences and even adversaries that also share the joys of this very personal game called Golf. It is from all of that, where the experiences become just more then passing memories--but more of an embodyment of Spirit, which of course is where Faith resides in the Soul.

I have been fortunate in my life to experience a lot of GREAT golf courses with Soul. But I would have never known what any of it was if I hadn't understood exactly what motivates it all. I may have found it on this obscure golf course in Corona, California, but I never knew just how much it really existed until I sat my first foot on the Old Course, St. Andrews, Fife, Scotland.

Anyone that thinks that there isn't any Soul in that should never even reply.

[Mark_Fine]

I didn't say a course like Oakmont doesn't have "soul".  I just said that if you think about a course like Oakmont, the word "soul" wouldn't be the word that immediately comes to mind despite the fact that it is loaded with strategic interest.
I'd have to think a bit more about when I would use this word to describe a goal course.  

[A_Clay_Man]

This is as good a time as any to discuss the difference between the orig river course at BWR and the one that exists today. IMO The addition of the new nine altered the soul of the course. And while the new nine has at least 7 really really strong golf holes I find that that nine 5-13 has it's own soul and is completely different from the original. And to me it isn't all about the strategy it was about the ebb and flow like the river it sits adjacent to. My favorite stretch is actually on the valley nine near that serpentine creek that sits between the green on the 3rd hole and goes to the par 3 Mercy which is the sixth hole on that nine.

Since soul has such a spiritual conotation it really is something one feels. Which implies that if a course or even just a string of holes has made the golfer feel. It probably has done all it can do to make the experience worth every bit of minutia we extract and post about.

[Ran Morrissett]

Mike,

What are some examples of  "plenty of courses that have lots of strategic options but the personality of Donald Rumsfeld"?

Also, what are some examples of courses that are more or less void of strategy yet have plenty of soul?

Cheers,  

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