[Mike_Cocking]

In an effort to build and design more creative putting surfaces, one's that perhaps put a great demand on placement, would it be feasible to have a course that will not prepare greens faster than say 8 on the stimpmeter.

It seems during the design phase a number of architects are reluctant to create bold contours, knowing that for a tournament they will be unplayable.The result is often fairly flat greens that may just tilt a little back to front, right to left etc.

I remember looking at a photo of Mackenzies Sitwell park (I can't remeber the green off the top of my head but I'm sure you know the one), and thinking what a shame more of this isn't possible today.  Likewise 11 at Yarra Yarra which most would not be game to replicate.

The question is can we go back?
 

[Chris Kane]

Mike,
I think it depends on the location.  In Australia, there isn't as strong a "stimpmeter culture" as there is in parts of the United States, which could make it possible here.

I know that in Melbourne, a green is fast or it isn't.  People aren't so interested in the stimpmeter reading as they are interested in how fast the putts roll down the slope...if there is a lot of slope on the greens, they're going to be quick, even at 8.

Take for example a downhill putt on 11 at Commonwealth: that putt is going to be scary whether the stimp is at 8 or 12.

It's when people start using a stimpmeter measurement as a sign of greenkeeper skill (higher = better) that there's a problem.  We need to get away from that.

[Tom_Doak]

Michael,

All you need is a sympathetic client and an equally sympathetic membership.

Also, the more remote the location, the better.  High Pointe's slower greens didn't work because a lot of the players were coming from a Jack Nicklaus course with fast greens just down the road, and they couldn't adjust.

However, the green speeds in Bandon vary with the seasons, and not too many people complain about it.  (Sadly, quite a few do.)

Somehow they have still managed not to care much about green speeds in Scotland and Ireland.  But here in the USA, it is definitely a losing battle to build greens for a Stimpmeter speed of 8.  Trust me, I've fought it.

[Tom_Doak]

P.S.  We'll go back when they ban some chemicals for golf course use, and superintendents need to cut the greens a bit higher to keep them healthy.

[Jim Sweeney]

I often play a Hurdzan Design course in No. KY called Lassing Pointe. Green Super. Jerry Coldiron is committed to the Audubon program and healthy grass. He uses organic fertilizers and keeps the greens a little higher than most places. They are always in wonderful condition and putt beautifully. It is only in the last year or so that we've seen any significant poa- and the course is now 11 years old. What poa is there is the result of unrepaired ball marks.

A few years ago Lassing hosted the Kentucky Open. It took Coldiron a few weeks to bring those greens from their normal 8 or 9 to 10+, then it was right back to their normal speeds. The golf course was wonderful for the tournament, and show no ill effects from being in tournament condition.

A few years ago I heard former USGA President and R&A Captain Bill Campbell tell a story about introducing the Stimpmeter to a Superintendent in Scotland. After Campbell explained that its purpose was to help insure that the green speeds were consistent throughout the course, the Super. replied, "Mr. Campbell, why on earth would anyone want to do that?"

It's a very different culture over there.

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