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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« on: March 20, 2007, 08:53:21 AM »
You have to see this green in person to believe it.

From the website:

Green 231  
Blue 211  
White 189  
Red 135



A long iron is needed on this par 3, which has a fairly large green that slopes from left to right.  To miss this green to the left is to ask for trouble.

Sorry I don't have time for more, this hole deserves it, but we're having problems at work!

More to follow later.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

TEPaul

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 11:43:04 AM »
I mentioned this hole recently as an example of a design configuration that will allow a low run up shot through the approach. It's a cool shot because you have to keep the shot fairly low and get it on the ground early and scooting up the approach incllne and also get it enough to the left on the approach to have it bounce and run to the right and up onto the left to right cant of the green. It's a fun shot and one made more interesting by the fact you don't have to carry the ball anywhere near the full extent of this pretty lengthy par 3. But the key is you have to keep the shot low all the way and get it on the ground pretty far back or it won't work well even in firm and fast conditions. Basically it takes imagination and balls to hit a long iron really low on a 231 yard par 3. Americans generally aren't even capable of visualizing such a shot. This particular shot option is very vaguely reverse redanish.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 11:46:03 AM by TEPaul »

Mike_Cirba

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 11:48:12 AM »
Tom,

I was just going to ask if this isn't a reverse redan.

I'm sure Patrick will disagree with us.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 11:48:32 AM by MPCirba »

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 11:52:05 AM »
I mentioned this hole recently as an example of a design configuration that will allow a low run up shot through the approach. It's a cool shot because you have to keep the shot fairly low and get it on the ground early and scooting up the approach incllne and also get it enough to the left on the approach to have it bounce and run to the right and up onto the left to right cant of the green. It's a fun shot and one made more interesting by the fact you don't have to carry the ball anywhere near the full extent of this pretty lengthy par 3. But the key is you have to keep the shot low all the way and get it on the ground pretty far back or it won't work well even in firm and fast conditions. Basically it takes imagination and balls to hit a long iron really low on a 231 yard par 3. Americans generally aren't even capable of visualizing such a shot. This particular shot option is very vaguely reverse redanish.

Most golfers that I've come across would be bashing a driver as hard as they could hoping to get anywhere near the green, provided that they were foolish enough to play Oakmont from the tips (which many would be). But I agree that it would take some tremendous balls for better players to try the shot in the open. I'm sure Mickelson will play it...
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

TEPaul

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 11:54:38 AM »
I'll tell you one thing about Oakmont's design and that is ironically like a few of those really old American championship designs (Merion East, PVGC) it does not have anywhere near as many bounce and run-in approaches as one would expect on a course that old but the ones it does have that way are some of the neatest I've ever seen.

If Oakmont is as firm and fast in the Open as I think they would like it to be I bet even the best players in the world will almost have to play some form of bounce in approach on at least #1, #10, #12 and #15. And I think if they wanted to they could even try it on #16.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2007, 11:56:11 AM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 11:57:55 AM »
How would Tiger play #16 in neutral conditions?

Good question but I think he'd probably take about a 5 iron and hit it about nine miles in the air!  ;)

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 12:37:12 PM »
Tom:

From tee to green, is the terrain slightly uphill, slightly downhill, or pretty level (re. your ground-game thoughts)? Any thoughts on the prevailing summer wind? Given George's comments about left being dead, do you think 16 plays as a hole in which the kind running draw you describe carries with it the potential for the most reward, but also the most risk (if the draw doesn't draw, or simply runs out in F/F conditions into the bunkers left)?


George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 01:43:45 PM »
Tom:

From tee to green, is the terrain slightly uphill, slightly downhill, or pretty level (re. your ground-game thoughts)? Any thoughts on the prevailing summer wind? Given George's comments about left being dead, do you think 16 plays as a hole in which the kind running draw you describe carries with it the potential for the most reward, but also the most risk (if the draw doesn't draw, or simply runs out in F/F conditions into the bunkers left)?



Just a clarification: those comments are the Oakmont website's, not mine. And I think Tom P is saying a running fade, if there is such a thing, as a draw would not fit the green orientation unless you're one of them thar cursed lefties. :) (There's actually quite a few on the board, but I won't out them!)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2007, 01:46:09 PM »
Sorry, my mistake! I meant running fade, or some sort of shot that Tom describes.

TEPaul

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2007, 03:29:25 PM »
Phil:

I don't think I'd try a low draw--not on purpose anyway. The topography? Seems to me the hole is along a gentle left to right hillside that sort of feels like it dips through a very gentle valley from tee to green front. The approach inclines right in front of the green.

Ask Wayno Morrison what his shot strategy was off the tee on #17. All we could see was it started out by having him forget to bring a club to the 17th tee and have to borrow one that was more than a little messy in initial execution. If you ever play with Wayno my advice is to stand behind him at all times. Consistency seems to be a foreign concept to him---it's either birdie or off the world. ;)

wsmorrison

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2007, 03:38:18 PM »
Tom,

You forgot to mention my pushed 3 iron on 16, pin high but well to the right below the green.  Don't you remember my flop shot to 3' and miracle par?

As to the 17th, I was only 4 over at the time (including an ugly double on 12) and being my first time around and with a tired caddy on his second loop (he was a bit suspect as you may recall), I didn't forget a club, I brought my driver to the tee.  Well, that was clearly the wrong club.  Since the caddy was well up the fairway, I borrowed Mark's funky looking Ping somethingorother and proceeded to slice one into Ohio.  I think it was the shaft  ;)  Anyhow, that was a bad hole for me on the scorecard.  Next time, I'll bring a 4-iron and smooth one right down the middle---or off the world.  I was on quite a bit that day and I surely must have reminded you of Tiger Woods, especially off the first tee!

TEPaul

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007, 05:30:49 PM »
"Tom,
You forgot to mention my pushed 3 iron on 16, pin high but well to the right below the green.  Don't you remember my flop shot to 3' and miracle par?"

Of course I do. Nobody has ever said you don't have some electifying talent Wayno. I've just never seen anyone short out as dramatically as you do the next minute. I'll tell you, come June at Oakmont Tiger would pay a lot for some of the holes you had that day.


wsmorrison

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2007, 05:35:26 PM »
Maybe I'm a flask golfer and don't know it.  I'm going to try that next time out.  When I sense I'm about to lose it, it'll be time for a wee nip or two.

TEPaul

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2007, 05:39:35 PM »
"Maybe I'm a flask golfer and don't know it.  I'm going to try that next time out.  When I sense I'm about to lose it, it'll be time for a wee nip or two."

If you do and you want me to play with you just give me a set of binoculars because I want to be at least six holes over. Make that eight holes over----I think you could probably still hit me six holes over.

wsmorrison

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2007, 05:54:33 PM »
In that case, I'll just get me a guru.  I wouldn't want you playing 8 holes away.  Jeez, there won't be any room for you to hide at Merion.  My brother spent a few days with Hank Haney...I'll see what good it did him and get him to buy me a few lessons; at the 4 Seasons of course.

TEPaul

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2007, 06:21:19 PM »
And my brother-in-law had a lesson from David Ledbetter. When I asked him how he was as a teacher he said he wasn't that great. When I asked him why, he said because all Ledbetter said was:

"Harry, do you think it would be possible for you to slow your swing down to a remotely visible blur?"   ;)

Ryan Farrow

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2007, 06:52:31 PM »
I stumbled upon a photo filter in Photoshop that replicates the feel of an old picture. Thought I would use it on this set because the originals donít look that great.









Here is a before and after of #9 and the clubhouse:






Ryan Farrow

Re:Week 16: The amazing 16th at Oakmont
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2007, 04:17:30 PM »
A few more shots I didn't know I had:






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