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George Pazin

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Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« on: February 12, 2007, 03:39:02 PM »
From the website:

Green   379
Blue   328
White   307
Red   271



This short par 4 is best played with a long iron or 3-wood to reach the plateau in the fairway.  The short iron approach shot is to a flattish green that slopes from back to front.

What isn't apparent from the diagram - the plateau is up on a significant hill, so the hole plays longer than its yardage for mere mortals (the big boys just fly their drives 300, so it's less of an issue for them... :)).

I don't remember the drainage ditch crossing the fairway - I thought it ran alongside.

Note the bunkers are strategically placed in the preferred landing area, in terms of the angle to the green. (Of course, many contends that with today's technology, angles don't matter. But they do to mere mortals!)

Yardages and overhead to follow.

Odd story of the week:

During the stroke portion of the '03 Am, JohnV tipped me off to something I had thought of: he said the playoff Wednesday morning for the matchplay sometimes yielded some fun and exciting play. So I showed up early Wed. morning, and after I crossed the bridge I saw the players coming down the 10th, the first playoff hole. I think there were about 10 or 11 guys playing for something like 6 or 7 spots. The 10th did a marvelous job paring things down quickly. I think 5 guys parred and were in, 3-4 doubled and were out, and 3 were left in the playoff for 1 spot after bogeying the hole. So they trodded over to the 11th tee.

I was standing about 50 yards out, watching the guys tee off, and I thought I had mistakenly seen on the guys top his tee shot. No way a guy playing in the Am could do that, I thought, I must have seen it wrong. Well, they started walking up the hole, and then they stopped quickly, while one of the guys and his caddy assessed the ball sitting IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 3 FOOT WIDE WALKING PATH! Talk about your narrow fairways to hit. Well, he calming pulled out a club, knocked it up on the plateau, wedged it to about 10 feet, and just missed continuing on in the playoff with his lipped out putt.

That guy might have shared the top shot with yours truly, but he sure as hell handled in better! :)

Last Week: The terrific 10th at Oakmont
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 04:32:32 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2007, 03:44:40 PM »
First thought that came to mind was, why don't they extend the fairway to the left short of the draining ditch. Carry the bunkers, and gain a good angle. Seems good risk/reward to me.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kyle Harris

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2007, 03:46:10 PM »
Thanks for the winner on the pass line, George.

The real money on a craps table is taking odds when hitting the point though.  ;)

Dollar C&E for the crew!

peter_p

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2007, 03:54:47 PM »
It looks like a driver off the tee should easily carry the drainage ditch unless you go left. What shot would they then face? Uphill/blind/less than a sand wedge?

Garland Bayley

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2007, 04:07:55 PM »
It looks like a driver off the tee should easily carry the drainage ditch unless you go left. What shot would they then face? Uphill/blind/less than a sand wedge?

Perhaps for you and J.B. Holmes.  ;D
Proportionally estimating, I get at least 300 to carry at the very right.
I get 285 to carry the furthest, left fairway bunker.
Guess we need that yardage book George.
 :D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ryan Farrow

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 04:09:19 PM »
Peter, carrying that ditch is no easy task. I hit a pretty damn good drive up to the last bunker. I would think the pro's could carry the ditch but it is certainly not easy. O yea, I clearly remember a 3 putt bogey on this hole from about 12 feet.


Mark Chaplin

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2007, 04:24:50 PM »
Whilst I've never played Oakmont where would the advantage be in risking the carry over the ditch? Surely spoon/wedge will always be the safe bet and with the pros being so good from around 100yds yield a few birdies as well.
Cave Nil Vino

George Pazin

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2007, 04:27:45 PM »
Your wish is my command....



That hill is significant. I don't see too many people attempting a 300 yard carry uphill in US Open conditions, especially when the reward is pretty much just a shorter wedge.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 04:30:47 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

George Pazin

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2007, 04:35:20 PM »
The overhead:

Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2007, 04:41:37 PM »
Darn! Missed the bunker carry distance by a yard! I guess though that the angle gain is not significant given the apporach is only 100 yds in from the center of the fairway short of the ditch. I hearby retract my risk/reward comment, but I stand by the observation that it did not rain golf carts in NM last year.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ryan Farrow

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2007, 10:30:50 PM »
I was pretty sure that no matter where you are on 11 FW you have a  terrible angle. The pictures kind of show this. The only good angle to the green is from 10 FW but even I can stick a wedge on this green from 11.

Sorry my pictures pictures don't show much.

In front of the left side bunkers.


Past bunker complex that is shared with #10.


From 10 FW to 11 green.


Looking back to the FW from the approach.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 10:35:20 PM by Ryan Farrow »

Jeff Doerr

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2007, 10:09:51 AM »
Thanks again George for this great series. I'd love to see them utilize the blue/white tees to bring all the options into play.
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2007, 10:27:36 AM »
I'm not sure what anyone will gain by trying to fly blind over the ditch from the tee.   Wouldn't that leave an awkward 30-70 yard pitch, which could be really ugly if they didn't find the fairway?

I think everyone will likely just lay up to the top of the plateau.

Jason Topp

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2007, 10:48:13 AM »
George - these threads are among my all time favorites.  Thanks for doing them.

Jason Topp

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2007, 10:50:31 AM »
Is there any reason to hit it into 10 fairway off the tee?

JohnV

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2007, 11:37:20 AM »
Jason,

I played with one of the better players from the club who tried that a couple of years ago.  He didn't make it and was left with a tough shot from the rough.  I'm not sure it really is worth it, but as a precaution they have narrowed the 10th fairway up there.  It won't have any real effect on the play of #10 but will probably discourage anyone from trying it.

Adam Clayman

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2007, 12:36:54 PM »
How deep (penal) is the front bunker?

These guys might just try to put it in there, downwind?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

George Pazin

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2007, 12:42:21 PM »
Like pretty much all the bunkers at Oakmont, it is quite deep and difficult, though the big boys don't seem to have as much trouble with them as mere mortals.

That initial hill is big, and it is all uphill to the green from the plateau as well. I'd be stunned if someone could reach that bunker with anything other than a Jason Zubac prize-winning drive.

Then again, JohnV related the story of Trip Kuehne hitting it 375 up the same basic hill on #9, so maybe I'm underestimating those guys.

 :)

Hey, that gives me an idea for a new thread! See the big board.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2007, 12:43:02 PM by George Pazin »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2007, 12:44:24 PM »
Yes thanks George,

These are the series of threads that keep on giving. They keep me captivated.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ryan Farrow

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2007, 12:48:18 PM »
How deep (penal) is the front bunker?

These guys might just try to put it in there, downwind?

That bunker is at least 10 feet deep. Its an easy shot for the pro and tough for the average player. I have seen many balls roll back in that bunker or get caught in the rough.

JohnV

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2007, 12:49:32 PM »
It is deep.  I have a picture of my boss in it at home.  I'll try to post it tonight or tomorrow morning.

Garland Bayley

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Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2007, 02:00:26 PM »
It occurs to me that this is the hole that has had the most discussion about strategy in placement of the drive. As has been pointed out before, most strategy seen so far has been the decision of how far to drive. Here the discussion has been about driving into the adjacent fairway for the best angle to the green, attempting the heroic carry of the ditch,  attempting the even more heroic carry to the greenside bunker, carrying the bunkers on the left for a better angle, and laying up on the hill short of the ditch.

It also seems to me that from the picture, this is the most unique hole seen so far with the crossing ditch and no fairway bunkers right.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JohnV

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2007, 04:51:06 PM »
The bunker on #11. Probably only about 7 or 8 feet deep.



Click Here for larger version

TEPaul

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2007, 05:07:46 PM »
Have you ever felt you know a golf course pretty well having played it quite a few times over the years but there's one hole that seems to escape you---eg you just don't know it very well?

Well, for me that would be #11, and bigtime! God only knows why.

Kyle Harris

Re:Week 11: Yo 'Lev! The 11th at Oakmont
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2007, 08:25:04 PM »
Well, I was waiting for this one, and hoped to rehash that age old debate with Huckaby. To me, this hole is nothing like any of the previous ones at Oakmont, and am definitely awaiting Sir Thomas's comments in that regard.

What is so elegant about the hole is that it fits into the big picture perfectly, despite being so different in terms of scale, length and even bunkering and severity.

Ryan,

Your shot from 10 is very telling and that omnipresent ditch is there again on the preferred landing area. We've discussed this for the 3rd hole, but how about extending the fairway right up to the ditch?

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