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1
Golf Course Architecture / Re: What factors make a great routing?
« Last post by Tim_Weiman on Yesterday at 11:54:32 PM »
I tend to care very little about the ins-and-outs of routings, and tend to see it from a mostly practical standpoint and less artistically, but I'm no architect so I'm sure I'm susceptible of being blind what I'm not educated enough to notice. Still, where I notice routings is in the final hole, and less so, with the first hole and the turn.

I am strangely passionate about final holes, and I see very few courses that I think do them very well. To me an interaction between the clubhouse and 18th green can give a hole a character rarely seen in causal golf. If I ever have Bandon money, I would want to build a course where the 18th green was tucked into a horseshoe-shaped clubhouse (with the building in play) overlooking the green so everyone could watch people play in. Most courses seem to leave a significant interlude between the course and the bar, or just dump people into the parking lot.

I wrote about one of my favorite first holes (#1 at Lions Muny), and the reason why I think it works is that the routing puts the first tee right in the middle of everything. That everyone at the course is watching you take a tee shot is a good way to make and easy shot feel hard, and turn a gentle handshake into a firm one (note that the middle and front tees are progressively father a way, so the pressure of being watch diminishes for less skilled players).

Returning nines is practical, but, again, I think a routing that ignores that has room for giving a course a unique personality. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a nut for a halfway house, again because I see a halfway house as rare opportunity to impart the tone/brand of a course through its architecture, and without that halfway house, you can only do that with the clubhouse.

The last thing I would add is that pace of play can be significantly impacted by routing. Looking at the subject through, I guess it should be called "gate theory" of pace, it'd be interesting to try to use the routing to add/remove "gates" depending on the current pace issues. I think it would be interesting experiment, but I don't think most people take that stuff seriously.


Matt,


If you have a passion for finishing holes I think you would enjoy the 18th at Stonewall. The approach plays downhill with the old stone farmhouse to the left very close to the green. Absolutely beautiful scene providing a fun final shot.


If I lived near Philadelphia, Stonewall is definitely a club I would want to join.
2
Golf Course Architecture / Re: Warne and Wolf in NZ
« Last post by Paul Rudovsky on Yesterday at 09:23:22 PM »
Jeff and Michael--My trip a few weeks ago was very short but was about my 5th or 6th golfing trip to NZ.  First major one was in 1977.  On this year's trip I returned to Paraparaumu which I had last seen in 1977.  Remembered almost none of it but think the land on which the front nine is built might be among the best pieces of land for a golf course anywhere in the world.  Loved the front and back nine is very good.


Played Kinloch 1x (in 2016) and thought it was one of the 4-5 hardest courses I had ever seen.  Had long talk w HP after round and he said the course had to that point gone thru six different owners (as I recall the HP was there for all of them).  After a while he said he almost never sees a visitor coming back for a second round either on the same or a later trip.  He also said the first owner had asked JWN to build "the world's hardest course"....and I would add that he forgot to say to make it fun to play.


Sorry I missed Waverley...as this was most likely my last trip "down under" unless I fall for the 7 Mile Beach swansong
3
Golf Course Architecture / Re: What factors make a great routing?
« Last post by Matt Schoolfield on Yesterday at 08:01:28 PM »
I tend to care very little about the ins-and-outs of routings, and tend to see it from a mostly practical standpoint and less artistically, but I'm no architect so I'm sure I'm susceptible of being blind what I'm not educated enough to notice. Still, where I notice routings is in the final hole, and less so, with the first hole and the turn.

I am strangely passionate about final holes, and I see very few courses that I think do them very well. To me an interaction between the clubhouse and 18th green can give a hole a character rarely seen in causal golf. If I ever have Bandon money, I would want to build a course where the 18th green was tucked into a horseshoe-shaped clubhouse (with the building in play) overlooking the green so everyone could watch people play in. Most courses seem to leave a significant interlude between the course and the bar, or just dump people into the parking lot.

I wrote about one of my favorite first holes (#1 at Lions Muny), and the reason why I think it works is that the routing puts the first tee right in the middle of everything. That everyone at the course is watching you take a tee shot is a good way to make and easy shot feel hard, and turn a gentle handshake into a firm one (note that the middle and front tees are progressively father a way, so the pressure of being watch diminishes for less skilled players).

Returning nines is practical, but, again, I think a routing that ignores that has room for giving a course a unique personality. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a nut for a halfway house, again because I see a halfway house as rare opportunity to impart the tone/brand of a course through its architecture, and without that halfway house, you can only do that with the clubhouse.

The last thing I would add is that pace of play can be significantly impacted by routing. Looking at the subject through, I guess it should be called "gate theory" of pace, it'd be interesting to try to use the routing to add/remove "gates" depending on the current pace issues. I think it would be interesting experiment, but I don't think most people take that stuff seriously.
 
4
Golf Course Architecture / Re: What factors make a great routing?
« Last post by Wade Whitehead on Yesterday at 07:41:20 PM »
Par threes that face in difference directions.

This would seem to be a reasonable goal on just about any site.

WW
5
Golf Course Architecture / Re: Midwest USA GCA Knockout 2024 Edition
« Last post by Ryan Taylor on Yesterday at 07:34:09 PM »
I'll play again. Detroit Metro or Traverse City/Petoskey area will work. Thank you.
6
Golf Course Architecture / Re: What factors make a great routing?
« Last post by Tom_Doak on Yesterday at 07:14:30 PM »
Fundamentally, routing is about finding a bunch of good holes that fit together and make the best of the terrain.  After that, there is a lot of scope for art, but the art will go unnoticed if the golf holes arenít really good.
7

Not sure the record will ever be broken.


I can't imagine anyone else trying to do it with the time, money, and access constraints. Yowsa it makes me tired just thinking about it.
8
Golf Course Architecture / Re: What factors make a great routing?
« Last post by mike_malone on Yesterday at 05:41:16 PM »
If you have decent topography, one of the keys is to use it in different ways. What I mean by that is by going over rolls and often on diagonal orientations.


When looking at a new site, those kind of choices are not always the most obvious. The most obvious are often through valleys, along a ridge or straight uphill or downhill. But as Tom Simpson said, the best choice is rarely the most obvious one.


Which shows that the routing is not constrained by the land. Much creativity can be used. I love how Flynn often chooses to go along the ridge rather than up and down the hill.
9
Golf Course Architecture / Re: 4 at Riviera
« Last post by Joel_Stewart on Yesterday at 05:07:53 PM »
How high should we hit a shot and still expect it to release off fairway height grass? How soft were the approaches at Riv the week after an atmospheric river hit CA?


Its not that the approaches are soft, its the kikuyu is sticky and unpredictable.
10
Golf Course Architecture / Re: OT - Anyone bump into this guy in 2023?
« Last post by Joel_Stewart on Yesterday at 05:04:50 PM »
I played with him three times and set him up at two other places.


He's a good guy, the life of a party.  He's also a good player (2 handicap) and raised quite a bit of money for the First Tee of Seattle.


Not sure the record will ever be broken. 
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