Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Tommy Williamsen on February 28, 2023, 09:21:26 AM
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Pickleball is the latest new game to sweep the nation. People are giving up tennis to play it. I live at a little resort in the VA mountains. We have (had) member four tennis courts. One has been turned into three pickleball courts. Two others will become pickleball courts in the spring, leaving only one tennis court. I know the country club outside DC, where I was a member for 30 years, is doing something similar. I suspect other clubs are building courts.
What's happening where you live?
Do you play?
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In the northeast, Padel still reigns supreme but pickle is certainly gaining steam.
Similar story at my mountain club in CA. We had five tennis courts. One was converted to four pickle courts and one is a hybrid with two pickle / tennis. Then they built two separate pickle courts. So now we have six dedicated pickle courts plus the hybrid. On summer weekends you can't get a time to play unless you book over a week in advance. There is an ongoing war between the tennis committee and pickle committee on further court conversions ::) .
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Pickleball = racket sport in its lowest form. ;)
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In the northeast, Padel still reigns supreme but pickle is certainly gaining steam.
Similar story at my mountain club in CA. We had five tennis courts. One was converted to four pickle courts and one is a hybrid with two pickle / tennis. Then they built two separate pickle courts. So now we have six dedicated pickle courts plus the hybrid. On summer weekends you can't get a time to play unless you book over a week in advance. There is an ongoing war between the tennis committee and pickle committee on further court conversions ::) .
Padel or Paddle...?...two distinctly different games.
Paddle Tennis - or Paddle - is a huge east coast and Midwest game. The nationals are hosted at our club in Chicago.
Padel - pronounced "Pah-Dell" is a European game that is only now coming to the US and combines tennis and paddle together. It's a ton of fun but not played at traditional country clubs yet.
Pickleball is the fastest growing game in the US right now and most golfers hate it as it makes the shittiest possible noise that seems to waft all over the grounds.
But, it's taking over tennis thats for sure.
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In the northeast, Padel still reigns supreme but pickle is certainly gaining steam.
Similar story at my mountain club in CA. We had five tennis courts. One was converted to four pickle courts and one is a hybrid with two pickle / tennis. Then they built two separate pickle courts. So now we have six dedicated pickle courts plus the hybrid. On summer weekends you can't get a time to play unless you book over a week in advance. There is an ongoing war between the tennis committee and pickle committee on further court conversions ::) .
Padel or Paddle...?...two distinctly different games.
Paddle Tennis - or Paddle - is a huge east coast and Midwest game. The nationals are hosted at our club in Chicago.
Padel - pronounced "Pah-Dell" is a European game that is only now coming to the US and combines tennis and paddle together. It's a ton of fun but not played at traditional country clubs yet.
Pickleball is the fastest growing game in the US right now and most golfers hate it as it makes the shittiest possible noise that seems to waft all over the grounds.
But, it's taking over tennis thats for sure.
I meant Paddle but for some reason my brain wrote Padel!
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Our club has a strong tennis program and but one pickleball court with room for a second. I hope it stays that way. That said, I know a lot of private clubs in SE Michigan have converted a number of their tennis courts to pickleball courts.
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Paddle tennis (aka platform tennis) is mostly a winter sport played outside in the north/northeast with a sponge-ish rubber ball on a court that is surrounded by wire mesh walls. The ball can be played off the mesh walls, as in racketball and squash.
http://www.platformtennis.org/about_us/What-is-Platform-Tennis.htm (http://www.platformtennis.org/about_us/What-is-Platform-Tennis.htm)
Paddle tennis is also the name for an outdoor sport popular in Southern California that is played on a scaled-down tennis court. It is usually played with a tennis ball that has been punctured.
https://www.britannica.com/sports/paddle-tennis (https://www.britannica.com/sports/paddle-tennis)
Pickleball and padel are different games.
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There is now a Pro Tour for Pickleball with a TV contract !
https://www.ppatour.com/
https://www.ppatour.com/watch/
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"There is now a Pro Tour for Pickleball with a TV contract !"
Looks like pro pickleball had an easier time getting a TV contract than LIV golf. ;)
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Dang! They're the envy of Greg Norman and LIV. That's some serious network coverage.
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The noise is annoying but the game is very fun. Unlike golf, someone can play well enough the first time to participate meaningfully in a doubles match. I find it more like ping-pong than tennis but it is definitely a hybrid of the two.
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I am a huge pickleball fan. I play 2 - 3 times a week. It's not just for old people! A major appeal of pickle is how easy it is to pick up and soon after play competitively. Unlike tennis where a wide skill gap between the beginner and the veteran makes it unenjoyable for everyone. My home club is landlocked and not willing to give up any tennis courts (and thankfully any parts of the course) for pickle courts though. They've been working through different possibilities for a while now.
That said, I like golf more. Golf course architecture is also more interesting than pickleball court architecture.
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I remember when racquetball was the hot new racket sport back in the 1980's. There were pro tournaments with prize money. Anyone remember Marty Hogan? :)
After "the boom" it pretty much faded away over the following 10-20 years. I wonder what the half-life of pickleball will be.
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I remember when racquetball was the hot new racket sport back in the 1980's. There were pro tournaments with prize money. Anyone remember Marty Hogan? :)
After "the boom" it pretty much faded away over the following 10-20 years. I wonder what the half-life of pickleball will be.
I remember raquetball being huge the late 70's to mid 80's. Clubs were popping up left and right for awhile. In the mid to late 90's many of these same clubs converted their courts to Wallyball due to decreased membership and play. Many of these clubs were sold and converted into fitness centers in the early 2000's.
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I remember when racquetball was the hot new racket sport back in the 1980's. There were pro tournaments with prize money. Anyone remember Marty Hogan? :)
After "the boom" it pretty much faded away over the following 10-20 years. I wonder what the half-life of pickleball will be.
Pickleball is here to stay. The wide age demographic, easy learning curve, use of space....and the comparative safety from severe injury all suggest this sport will continue to grow for decades. I just converted a few more of our tennis courts over and still have excessive demand, especially from our older members.
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I've played Pickleball a number of times and it's become very popular at WBYC. We have six tennis courts, and the two hard courts were quasi converted into six pickle courts. They have pickleball nights where couples play then have dinner and they usually sell out and have a wait list to get in.
Like Jason mentions above, it reminds me more of table tennis but it's pretty fun.
When I'm not playing squash, paddle tennis is my favorite winter racquet sport. I was on the Paddle Tennis team in high school and have played many times at Ian's club!
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At my residential community in the West Valley of Phoenix with 3 golf courses, we have 1300 members of the Pickleball Club and 20 courts with 16 more under construction. Pickleball is here to stay. Take a look:
https://www.pcpickleball.org/about-us
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I started playing early in 2020 as it was one of the only Covid activities available (even though at various times the local courts required singles-only play (which is terrible...no interest in that) and sometimes wearing masks.
I haven't played in a bit but would jump to do so. Very fun, steep learning curve (as soon as someone masters a third shot drop they can play with very good players) and very social.
Unlike racketball (where you usually had to join a club/gym), pickleball is much more available for play to anyone. And again, the steep learning curve is great.
Only negative in my experience is the Achilles/calf injuries we had early on. Each of us now knows that it is a good idea to stretch well before playing. The sound also is a negative for residential areas. In the future there will be more requirements for muted paddles/balls.
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The Villages has scheduled a town meeting concerning the effect muted balls could have on local wildlife.
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Unlike racketball (where you usually had to join a club/gym), pickleball is much more available for play to anyone. And again, the steep learning curve is great.
Almost every town’s recreation department in my area offers instruction, leagues and tournaments.
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Aging population combined with Pickleball is an orthopedic surgeon’s wet dream. I know several surgeons that love the sound of that ball. ;D
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A guy who lives down the street from me just had knee surgery, he was anxious to recover so he could start playing pickleball again. He is about 70 and has a vanity plate that says "PLY PICKLBLL" or something along those lines.
Until last summer I lived in Austin TX. Pickleball was definitely picking up steam there, and it was not uncommon to see pickleball players setting up shop on tennis courts in the public parks. There weren't any dedicated pickleball courts. Unsurprisingly, this was leading to a lot of tension and bad blood between tennis players and pickleball players.
Now living in Grand Rapids MI, one thing I've noticed is that the majority of public parks have both pickleball and tennis courts. The paddle sounds are definitely annoying, but tennis and pickleball players get along much better here!
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My observation from our club ...
Men's tennis is struggling.
Women's is also struggling but not as much.
Paddle Tennis remains very popular.
Pickleball has taken over two of our tennis courts.
But, watch out for Padel ... very much gaining in popularity in these parts ...
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I remember when racquetball was the hot new racket sport back in the 1980's. There were pro tournaments with prize money. Anyone remember Marty Hogan? :)
After "the boom" it pretty much faded away over the following 10-20 years. I wonder what the half-life of pickleball will be.
I remember raquetball being huge the late 70's to mid 80's. Clubs were popping up left and right for awhile. In the mid to late 90's many of these same clubs converted their courts to Wallyball due to decreased membership and play. Many of these clubs were sold and converted into fitness centers in the early 2000's.
I played a lot when young. I think the game was killed by improved racket technology. Points between good players became one or two shots.
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I'm glad my tennis club is all clay courts -- so we don't have folks wanting to take courts for pickle ball.
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I have never heard of pickle, paddle or padel 🙈.
Ciao
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By this summer we will have 32 Pickelball courts at Palmetto Dunes in Hilton Head. We currently have 24 and most days they are all full. The sport is crazy popular with players even traveling from 30 minutes off the island to play in our daily round robin events etc.
As a former tennis player in college I didn’t think I would like the game but am now hooked. At a high level it is a fantastic workout.
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I'm waiting for the golf course architecture element of this discussion to kick in.....
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Mark,
There is actually a golf course architecture issue with Pickelball and that is the noise. I currently have a design project at a private club in the Poconos in PA and there is a big debate about putting in Pickelball courts because the location selected would be near the first and tenth tees and many of the golfers don’t want to hear the noise. I will be addressing this in the new Master Plan for the renovation of the course. Noise with Pickelball can/does impact golf.
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Question. Is this a sport that's here to stay or is it fad that will eventually diminish in popularity as older generations die off? My concern is if young people don't embrace pickleball in significant numbers, what becomes of all the infrastructure being built to accommodate play? Do they become shuffleboard courts? LOL!
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"Question. Is this a sport that's here to stay or is it fad that will eventually diminish in popularity as older generations die off?"
Time will tell. Hundreds, if not thousands, of bowling alleys have closed over the past 20-30 years.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/)
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I agree with David, its way way too early to tell. But worse case scenario, they just reconvert all those pickle ball courts back to Tennis. :-\ Probably doesn't help that it's already running into interference with local govts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jIaxJunjCI&t=71s
P.S. On a personal level, I love Ping Pong but never took to Tennis.. and from what i've seen its an intriguing in-between
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I live in a high-rise in FL and we had 2 tennis courts; one has been turned into a pickleball court and the other is for tennis. My better half and I play tennis and we are in the minority. Pickleball court is busy with play (particularly in the mornings) and they are hosting an all day event this Saturday with food, tournaments and professional instruction as a way of introducing to those that haven't joined in on the fun yet.
I will say this. Those that are playing are both older (55 and above) and in pretty damn good shape. I've asked some of my neighbors if they converted from tennis and all, without an exception, said they have done so. My follow up question regarding if they still play tennis is met with a solid "no" from most, and from those who say they still play tennis, say that their participation in tennis has dropped off dramatically.
It's played outdoors, easier on the joints, can get a good workout in an hour, played in pairs......sounds like a winning combination for most......
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Found another article with this:
Studies have been undertaken to measure the sound levels associated with pickleball and average sounds have come to around 70 dBA. This scale of sound measurement, is a weighted decibel scale which gives the relative loudness of sounds in air as perceived by the human ear. Exposure to sounds of more than 80 dBA needs to be avoided while anything above 90 dBA is considered dangerous to the human ear.
Tennis, for instance, gives out 40 dBA sounds, which makes it eight times softer than pickleball sounds, making it so much more difficult for residents to endure.
https://racketsportsworld.com/pickleball-noise-issues-why-is-it-a-problem-what-can-be-done-to-overcome/#:~:text=Studies%20have%20been%20undertaken%20to,perceived%20by%20the%20human%20ear (https://racketsportsworld.com/pickleball-noise-issues-why-is-it-a-problem-what-can-be-done-to-overcome/#:~:text=Studies%20have%20been%20undertaken%20to,perceived%20by%20the%20human%20ear).
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Hundreds, if not thousands, of bowling alleys have closed over the past 20-30 years.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/)
I've personally witnessed the demise of three of the four bowling alleys in our area go out of business the past 15 years. The most recent being a place down the road from my office where I bowled in a league for a span of five years. It's in the process of being converted into a TESLA dealership. This is what happens to sports when they no longer attract enough of a younger audience to fill the vacancies left behind by older generations.
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Hundreds, if not thousands, of bowling alleys have closed over the past 20-30 years.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2015/05/10/bowling-final-frames-roll/27070351/)
I've personally witnessed the demise of three of the four bowling alleys in our area go out of business the past 15 years. The most recent being a place down the road from my office where I bowled in a league for a span of five years. It's in the process of being converted into a TESLA dealership. This is what happens to sports when they no longer attract enough of a younger audience to fill the vacancies left behind by older generations.
Bowling alleys have indeed seen a reduction in count, yet more importantly a consolidation. Those that invested in newer technology, experiential entertainment features and better F&B offerings have survived quite nicely and many have been swallowed up by Bowlero Corp, a publicly-listed entity that is growing incredibly well. We will see something similar in the off-course golf entertainment field. The likes of a TopGolf will eventually subsume a Driveshack, etc....
Pickleball is a wholly different dynamic. It is game growing virally across a national footprint, needing no more than 2100sf to exist and a super low cost to play. It is popular with a very wide spectrum of ages (rare) and doesn't require hours upon hours to play. When combined, all of this screams explosive growth and reasonably long sustainability. Ultimately, few clubs will be able to resist the pull to build more courts...especially as membership retention becomes more important. Lastly, as a guy with artificial knees and a lifetime of orthopedic donations, it is a sport that is far, far easier and safer to enjoy vs. tennis, paddle tennis and padel.
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Bowling alleys have indeed seen a reduction in count, yet more importantly a consolidation. Those that invested in newer technology, experiential entertainment features and better F&B offerings have survived quite nicely and many have been swallowed up by Bowlero Corp, a publicly-listed entity that is growing incredibly well. We will see something similar in the off-course golf entertainment field. The likes of a TopGolf will eventually subsume a Driveshack, etc....
Funny you mentin Bowlero Corp., as they purchased the lone remaining bowling alley in the Ann Arbor - Ypsi area several years ago and converted it to something akin to bowling alley, meets Dave and Busters, meets Chucky Cheese. LOL! It's doing great and we held our company's holiday party there last Dec. and rented the private room they have with four alley's, sofas, T.V.'s and the whole nine yards. We had blast and the food there was pretty good.
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Only negative in my experience is the Achilles/calf injuries we had early on. Each of us now knows that it is a good idea to stretch well before playing.
Yikes...I jinxed my friend. Torn Achilles yesterday morning.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjjKGMsP/64-BFD6-BE-3-BE7-48-C6-8-B3-E-7144-B65596-C4.jpg)
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Question. Is this a sport that's here to stay or is it fad that will eventually diminish in popularity as older generations die off? My concern is if young people don't embrace pickleball in significant numbers, what becomes of all the infrastructure being built to accommodate play? Do they become shuffleboard courts? LOL!
Most courts I have seen are one empty tennis court converted into four busy pickelball courts.
The injury problem is a real one. Those who suggest it is a safe alternative to tennis probably are wrong - at least according to my wife's orthopapod.
Last week I had my first experience of hearing pickelball on a golf course. It is not the most pleasant sound when lining up a putt to finish off a round. There will be disputes at clubs related to this issue.
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Elders need the noise of the pickleball to help determine where the ball is coming from and its speed. None of us would want to play golf with a silent ball. Sound is an essential component of feel.
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Elders need the noise of the pickleball to help determine where the ball is coming from and its speed. None of us would want to play golf with a silent ball. Sound is an essential component of feel.
You're right about sound, but friends that live across the street from converted tennis courts hate the noise.
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Elders need the noise of the pickleball to help determine where the ball is coming from and its speed. None of us would want to play golf with a silent ball. Sound is an essential component of feel.
You're right about sound, but friends that live across the street from converted tennis courts hate the noise.
We are looking at homes. Thanks for the great advice. I would have thought near the courts was a good thing. Oops.
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I have never heard of pickle, paddle or padel 🙈.
Ciao
Wow. Remove rock from overhead. ;D
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"Pickleball's latest court? The prison yard."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/02/22/pickleball-prison/
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As a preface, I’ve never played pickleball. There are four city courts less than 50 yards from my house and I’ve never heard noise I would consider objectionable.
Isn’t the purpose of a country club to provide a place for people to socialize and engage in various recreational pursuits ranging from golf to tennis, from swimming to…pickleball? It’s absurd to me as a member of such a club to complain about the noises associated with these pursuits. Are we going to stop our children from shrieking with joy as they jump off the diving board? Are we going to re-engineer the diving board to eliminate its reverberations? Disallow splashing? Are we going to limit the number of cars driving on roads adjoining our clubs because they make too much noise? C’mon everyone. Pickleball will probably develop noise-deadening rackets and a softer ball without degrading the game. Until then, let’s play our golf while absorbing the audible profanities from our playing partners. Allow our non-golfing fellow members to enjoy their favorite activity and meet them socially afterwards.
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As a preface, I’ve never played pickleball. There are four city courts less than 50 yards from my house and I’ve never heard noise I would consider objectionable.
Isn’t the purpose of a country club to provide a place for people to socialize and engage in various recreational pursuits ranging from golf to tennis, from swimming to…pickleball? It’s absurd to me as a member of such a club to complain about the noises associated with these pursuits. Are we going to stop our children from shrieking with joy as they jump off the diving board? Are we going to re-engineer the diving board to eliminate its reverberations? Disallow splashing? Are we going to limit the number of cars driving on roads adjoining our clubs because they make too much noise? C’mon everyone. Pickleball will probably develop noise-deadening rackets and a softer ball without degrading the game. Until then, let’s play our golf while absorbing the audible profanities from our playing partners. Allow our non-golfing fellow members to enjoy their favorite activity and meet them socially afterwards.
+1
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During the Second Great Awakening legislation in Philadelphia required chains to be extended across streets in front of churches during the hours of Sunday worship to ensure quiet. Lock them up!
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As a preface, I’ve never played pickleball. There are four city courts less than 50 yards from my house and I’ve never heard noise I would consider objectionable.
Isn’t the purpose of a country club to provide a place for people to socialize and engage in various recreational pursuits ranging from golf to tennis, from swimming to…pickleball? It’s absurd to me as a member of such a club to complain about the noises associated with these pursuits. Are we going to stop our children from shrieking with joy as they jump off the diving board? Are we going to re-engineer the diving board to eliminate its reverberations? Disallow splashing? Are we going to limit the number of cars driving on roads adjoining our clubs because they make too much noise? C’mon everyone. Pickleball will probably develop noise-deadening rackets and a softer ball without degrading the game. Until then, let’s play our golf while absorbing the audible profanities from our playing partners. Allow our non-golfing fellow members to enjoy their favorite activity and meet them socially afterwards.
I understand what you are saying, but you do not get to determine what noise is bothersome to someone else.
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I'm waiting for the golf course architecture element of this discussion to kick in.....
The modern driver is the "pickleball"of golf.
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I'm waiting for the golf course architecture element of this discussion to kick in.....
The modern driver is the "pickleball"of golf.
Funny that you bring this up Mike, because this thread has had me thinking about the long-ago day I was playing Olympia Fields North when I heard a loud pinging sound coming from some distance. “That sounds like a pro hitting driver,” I exclaimed as I ran up to our green and saw Corey Pavin walking down a fairway from a nearby hole. His tee shot was hit at least 50 yards from where I heard it.
And, say what you will about Pavin, but he was never known for his power with the driver.
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I was introduced to Paddle Tennis when I moved down the road from Concord Country Club about 13 years ago.. The local champion gave me some pointers and out we went to play a couple of Type A Cross-Fit mothers from the neighborhood. We escaped with a victory by the skin of our teeth - mostly due to my partner carrying me through first two sets.
He asked me what I thought about the game: "It's like ping-pong except you're standing on the table."
Pickleball seems like it's even more so.
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Old people can’t see a ping pong ball and they are much more difficult to chase and pick up. The ball that is.
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A history:
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/pickleball-how-a-bored-teen-inspired-his-dad-to-invent-today-s-fastest-growing-sport-in-1965?utm_source=pocket-newtab
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I was introduced to Paddle Tennis when I moved down the road from Concord Country Club about 13 years ago.. The local champion gave me some pointers and out we went to play a couple of Type A Cross-Fit mothers from the neighborhood. We escaped with a victory by the skin of our teeth - mostly due to my partner carrying me through first two sets.
He asked me what I thought about the game: "It's like ping-pong except you're standing on the table."
Pickleball seems like it's even more so.
First, David Tepper, NO ONE calls it "platform tennis" unless you dont play and do your research and postings based on internet links and Wikipedia entries...;-)
It is called PADDLE and there is NO resemblance to ping-pong although that analogy is accurate for Pickleball - 100%.
Paddle is a game of intense strategy where points can go for 50, 75 and 100 "touches" before a point is scored at the higher levels of play. But, it is also BRUTAL on your knees as you are basically playing in a chicken wire cage with 50 grit sandpaper on the floor.
Meniscus tears and Achilles ruptures are weekly occurrences and ortho surgeons LOVE the game - it's their new "cash-cow".
It is also a game where two 70 year old players can beat teams half their age with simple and consistent strategies. There is an old adage here:
"There are no winners (shots) in paddle". Brute force is not rewarded and a soft shot down the middle is more deadly than a slamming a lob - x10!!
Pickle is much, much, much easier to play than Paddle hence its wide and growing poularity especially in 65+ retirement communities and at country clubs.
We live on the north side of chicago and neighbors 4 doors down put in a pickle court in their backyard!
Of Note: Like Paddle, and UNLIKE tennis, Pickle players can regularly consume alcoholic beverages during the course of their matches and, like bowling, play improves when consumption increases.... ;D ;D
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As a preface, I’ve never played pickleball. There are four city courts less than 50 yards from my house and I’ve never heard noise I would consider objectionable.
Isn’t the purpose of a country club to provide a place for people to socialize and engage in various recreational pursuits ranging from golf to tennis, from swimming to…pickleball? It’s absurd to me as a member of such a club to complain about the noises associated with these pursuits. Are we going to stop our children from shrieking with joy as they jump off the diving board? Are we going to re-engineer the diving board to eliminate its reverberations? Disallow splashing? Are we going to limit the number of cars driving on roads adjoining our clubs because they make too much noise? C’mon everyone. Pickleball will probably develop noise-deadening rackets and a softer ball without degrading the game. Until then, let’s play our golf while absorbing the audible profanities from our playing partners. Allow our non-golfing fellow members to enjoy their favorite activity and meet them socially afterwards.
Phil,
Interesting you brought up these questions because many pools have removed diving boards, even if primarily out off liability concerns with injury. And several cities I've lived in have noise ordinances for trucks using engine breaks, cars with glasspack mufflers, anti-cruising ordinances, etc.
Ps. Would you object if someone wanted to open an outdoor gun range near your house? I've found them to be terrific social events as well.
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Philly Country and Aronomink used to have shooting ranges. I assume they still do.
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Ian M. -
The website of the Seabright Lawn Tennis & Cricket Club (Rumson, NJ) references Platform Tennis quite clearly on their website (and then refers to the game as paddle :) ): https://www.sltcc.org/ (https://www.sltcc.org/)
So does the website of the Midvale CC: https://www.midvalecc.com/tennis (https://www.midvalecc.com/tennis)
I suspect many other clubs do the same. https://www.chapelhilltennisclub.com/platform-tennis
I was simply trying to draw the distinction between paddle/platform tennis, the game played mostly in the northeast/north during the winter months, and paddle tennis, the game played in Southern California.
DT
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Ian M. -
The website of the Seabright Lawn Tennis & Cricket Club (Rumson, NJ) references Platform Tennis quite clearly on their website (and then refers to the game as paddle :) ): https://www.sltcc.org/ (https://www.sltcc.org/)
So does the website of the Midvale CC: https://www.midvalecc.com/tennis (https://www.midvalecc.com/tennis)
I suspect many other clubs do the same. https://www.chapelhilltennisclub.com/platform-tennis (https://www.chapelhilltennisclub.com/platform-tennis)
I was simply trying to draw the distinction between paddle/platform tennis, the game played mostly in the northeast/north during the winter months, and paddle tennis, the game played in Southern California.
DT
David - I started playing in 1977 in NJ and - even today - as our club in Chicago prepares to host the national tournament for the 4th time starting this Friday, NO ONE and I mean NOT ONE single person ever refers to this game as "platform tennis" unless you actually dont play it....;-)
http://www.platformtennis.org/Tournaments/APTA-National-Championships/2023_APTA_Men_s_and_Women_s_National_Championships.htm
It's called "Paddle"...PERIOD.
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Ian -
In that case I trust you will inform the ATPA of their error. ;)
http://www.platformtennis.org/Tournaments/APTA-National-Championships/2023_APTA_Men_s_and_Women_s_National_Championships.htm
DT
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Ian -
In that case I trust you will inform the ATPA of their error. ;)
http://www.platformtennis.org/Tournaments/APTA-National-Championships/2023_APTA_Men_s_and_Women_s_National_Championships.htm (http://www.platformtennis.org/Tournaments/APTA-National-Championships/2023_APTA_Men_s_and_Women_s_National_Championships.htm)
DT
David,
Over many decades, in Minneapolis, the Country Clubs have called it “Platform”.
I have occasionally but rarely heard it called “Paddle”.
Regional differences.
John
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John -
Thanks for that info. I could care less what people call it. I was simply trying to let everyone know there are two very different racket games both called paddle/paddle tennis.
DT
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We better be careful how we treat Pickle as we bounce golf balls off cars and houses. And don’t tell me the law protects us. Laws change.
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"Why is pickleball so popular?"
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/03/well/move/pickleball-popular-sport.html
Gated, sorry.
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https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/11/business/pickleball-sports-noise-complaints-tennis-ctpr
Despite the boom there are no shortage of haters.
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I had lunch on a friend's deck last summer. Across the street are four pickleball courts. The noise was very bothersome. If I lived there, I would complain. Unfortunately, it goes on all day long.
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Anyone who has studied the data on Pickleball knows that you should never hit a cross-court shot, all play should be targeted to the center of the court. Don't believe it? Study it out.
Because of this, I think we're going to see a trend towards deeper and less wide courts.
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Anyone who has studied the data on Pickleball knows that you should never hit a cross-court shot, all play should be targeted to the center of the court. Don't believe it? Study it out.
Is that a singles thing (which I never play)? Otherwise aside from the serve return which I agree should go deep center, the dink game in standard doubles is all over the place. And there is often more space/clearance for the shot going to the opposite side of the kitchen. Maybe I've been playing it wrong the last 3 years....open to the data.
EDIT: I have been informed that this was a sarcastic post based on other golf course posts. I bit on it. Haha. Proves I am old enough to play pickleball. ;D
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Anyone who has studied the data on Pickleball knows that you should never hit a cross-court shot, all play should be targeted to the center of the court. Don't believe it? Study it out.
Is that a singles thing (which I never play)? Otherwise aside from the serve return which I agree should go deep center, the dink game in standard doubles is all over the place. And there is often more space/clearance for the shot going to the opposite side of the kitchen. Maybe I've been playing it wrong the last 3 years....open to the data.
EDIT: I have been informed that this was a sarcastic post based on other golf course posts. I bit on it. Haha. Proves I am old enough to play pickleball. ;D
This beats when Dick Dailey showed up at Yeamans Hall.
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My course in St. Louis, Greenbriar Hills, is putting in 4 Pickleball courts. We are facing some strident opposition from a few homeowners closest to the courts. We had sound modeling done which showed us in compliance with the noise ordinance but we are going the extra step of having sound deadening fencing (accostifence) installed. Then, the city is making us do another sound study once courts are finished but before they are open for “normal” play. Even once we pass that, I am sure the neighbors will file a noise complaint the first time a paddle hits a ball.
Ironic thing is that the neighbors have a tennis court that can be used for Pickleball; they have no noise abatement and it is immediately adjacent to a home (maybe 5 ft from the property line), but for some reason, that is okay. Also, they hilariously said the sound made by Pickleball is just like an AK-47 makes when fired.[/size][size=78%] [/size]
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"Paddle Tennis[/size]Platform Tennis or as it is more commonly known Paddle Tennis, is a unique American racquet sport considered to be one of the fastest growing sports in the club community. Enjoyed by players of all ages, it is the only racquet sport that was created to be played outdoors in cold winter climates. This sport which is traditionally only played in a doubles format, is extremely popular with the DFC membership and promotes active competition and social engagement. The club hosts a number of tournaments each year, as well as a club championship. The DFC paddle community also hosts a series of social gatherings and pot-luck suppers. Our programming includes professional instruction for group and individual lessons and clinics for all ages and levels.Players of all levels are encouraged to come outdoors in the winter to experience the thrill and excitement of paddle; to enjoy the benefits of rigorous exercise and to appreciate the camaraderie that paddle offers."
Dorset Field Club[/i][/size][/color]
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"Platform, paddle, pop, padel tennis and pickleball – What’s the difference, which and where to play?"
https://www.minterdial.com/2022/08/platform-paddle-pop-padel-tennis/ (https://www.minterdial.com/2022/08/platform-paddle-pop-padel-tennis/)
Paddle tennis/paddle, as played in Southern California and elsewhere, has been called pop tennis since 2015.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_tennis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_tennis)
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I like pickle ball. Mind you, I've never played but it's very popular in the city I reside, as well as the community I call home. It looks as though all of the players are older than me and they're out exercising and socializing. Sound doesn't bother me one bit though, admittedly, I'm hard of hearing
How could I not like an activity that promotes health and socialization? Maybe it's a function of my age.....
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Only negative in my experience is the Achilles/calf injuries we had early on. Each of us now knows that it is a good idea to stretch well before playing.
Yikes...I jinxed my friend. Torn Achilles yesterday morning.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjjKGMsP/64-BFD6-BE-3-BE7-48-C6-8-B3-E-7144-B65596-C4.jpg)
I know 2 guys my age, mid 40s, who’ve torn their Achilles in the last month playing pickle ball
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John McEnroe on pickleball, "It's great if you aren't athletic."
https://www.essentiallysports.com/atp-tennis-nfl-news-its-like-a-poor-mans-arena-football-days-before-crucial-contest-with-andre-agassi-john-mcenroe-minces-no-words-to-deliver-a-pickleball-verdict/ (https://www.essentiallysports.com/atp-tennis-nfl-news-its-like-a-poor-mans-arena-football-days-before-crucial-contest-with-andre-agassi-john-mcenroe-minces-no-words-to-deliver-a-pickleball-verdict/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3NlFFQ-lS4
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Ive been playing Pickleball for 9 years and teaching for 6. I used to play a ton of golf and comment on this site. Recently helped teach a pickleball clinic at Milwaukee CC. I caddied there when i was like 12 so that was a hoot. We played over the tennis nets right next to the 5th fairway. Never thought id see that day ... game is loud, not just the ball hitting the paddle, its the laughter as well ha
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I know 2 guys my age, mid 40s, who’ve torn their Achilles in the last month playing pickle ball
Played in the member-guest at a prominent Midwest club about 10 years ago. First I'd heard of pickleball, and it was described as an activity very popular with retirees. We got paired with two active (at the time) NHLers in the second round, one at the tail end of his career, but without a contract. We got paired with them again in the third round, but only one of them answered the bell. The free agent blew out his knee playing pickleball the night before. I got the sense they played with a bit more intensity than most retirees.
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John McEnroe on pickleball, "It's great if you aren't athletic."
https://www.essentiallysports.com/atp-tennis-nfl-news-its-like-a-poor-mans-arena-football-days-before-crucial-contest-with-andre-agassi-john-mcenroe-minces-no-words-to-deliver-a-pickleball-verdict/ (https://www.essentiallysports.com/atp-tennis-nfl-news-its-like-a-poor-mans-arena-football-days-before-crucial-contest-with-andre-agassi-john-mcenroe-minces-no-words-to-deliver-a-pickleball-verdict/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3NlFFQ-lS4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3NlFFQ-lS4)
Everyone has a price: McEnroe is playing pickle ball for a million dollars on Sunday:
https://www.seminolehardrockhollywood.com/events/pickleball-slam
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Along with replacing our 50+ yr old pool and pool house, and renovating our bunkers with capillary concrete, my club will be adding 4 pickleball courts as part of an upcoming capital project. I’m sure that in time, I will get used to the sound.
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So, we’re telling pickleball stories. OK. I consider myself a competent racquet person, having played 4 years of intercollegiate squash back when the hard ball was in use. (That should date me to those who understand.)
I played pickleball during winters 2-3 years ago. It was a good workout in the Dominican heat, and I was competent, not good. One day I retreated for a lob, wasn’t as fast as I thought, and my feet went out from under me. I hit the back of my head on the court, am told I made quite a noise and was out for a few seconds, and remained wobbly for a few hours. Never again.
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"Pickleball Injuries Cost Americans Nearly $400 Million"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2023/06/26/pickleball-injuries-cost-americans-nearly-400-million-this-year---and-seniors-are-hit-hardest/?sh=1ee1a538c266 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/mollybohannon/2023/06/26/pickleball-injuries-cost-americans-nearly-400-million-this-year---and-seniors-are-hit-hardest/?sh=1ee1a538c266)
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For anyone who doesn’t think Pickleball can provide a real workout or doesn’t require athleticism, they just aren’t playing at a high enough level. Some say the same about golf, that you don’t have to be a great athlete to play at a high level. Most (not all) high level golfers and Pickleball players will beg to differ. Pickleball for sure is drawing in much better athletes and for that reason the game is already changing. Golf did the same.
I watched John McEnroe play in that Pickleball match. I love John, one of the greatest tennis players ever, BUT he is not very good at Pickleball. From what I saw on TV, compared to the players I play with, I would put him at a 4.0 and not much higher. He would’t make our top court in our doubles games. Those that play the game know what I am talking about. He could obviously be great IF he embraced the game, and might give it more respect but as of now, his game needs work ;) He wouldn’t score a point off the best players out there and most 4.5s would kick his butt especially if they didn’t know he was John McEnroe.
As I said earlier, the game has sound issues. In time I think they will lessen as they are already working on quieter paddles etc. But don’t say it does not require athletic talent. Play a 4.5 or 5.0 player and then draw your conclusion.
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Mark -
I have been around racket sports for 60 years. I have competed at an intercollegiate and national level.
If John McEnroe played pickleball an hour a day for 2 weeks there is not the slightest doubt in my mind he could compete successfully with anyone in his age group. He won 10 Grand Slam doubles titles. You can't do that unless you have great reflexes and can volley well.
Meanwhile, if you want to see a racket sport played at the highest level, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk9guzivxiU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk9guzivxiU)
DT
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David,
I agree with you, John would be great at the sport IF he practiced and embraced it. He would also give it much more respect if he did. I played Division One #1 singles and doubles in college so I got to play the best players around the country. I switched to golf out of school and just recently started playing Pickleball. My past tennis skills definitely help.
Great video you sent! Check this one out as well:
https://youtube.com/shorts/a48AaXDke-U?feature=share
[/size]
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Apparently, some folks at Sun Lakes Oakwood are not happy with the trend:
(https://pbase.com/teejaywhy/image/173778787/medium.jpg)
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2-time Masters winner Bernhard Langer recently tore his Achilles tendon playing pickleball and will not be able to play in what was to be his final Masters this year.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/13/sport/bernhard-langer-pickleball-the-masters-golf-spt-intl/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/13/sport/bernhard-langer-pickleball-the-masters-golf-spt-intl/index.html)
The Golf Channel's (and 2-time US Women's Am winner) Kay Cockerill did the same last year.
It's a dangerous game. ;)
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Orthopedic surgeons should have billboards on the courts. Many injuries at my club with 30+ courts and 1500 Pickleball members.
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Billion dollar idea -- quiet pickleballs
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Billion dollar idea -- quiet pickleballs
I'm sure it can be done, that air-less basketball is very quiet when it bounces.
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We have two hard tennis courts that are hardly used since our clay courts are more popular. Those hard courts had been lightly converted to pickleball a few years ago and it's become the 2nd most popular sport at the club after golf.
We're now converting those two tennis courts into 4 permanent pickleball courts and 2 platform (I call it Paddle too, Ian) tennis courts.
The NEW game that is quickly becoming popular here in Minnesota and elsewhere is Padel. Another incredible fun game that combines elements of pickle, squash, and paddle.
I think the big reason pickle and padel have become so popular is that there is no overhead serve. That takes a long learning curve for many compared to the underhand serve of pickle.
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Billion dollar idea -- quiet pickleballs
I'm sure it can be done, that air-less basketball is very quiet when it bounces.
There is an air-less basketball?
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"I think the big reason pickle and padel have become so popular is that there is no overhead serve. That takes a long learning curve for many compared to the underhand serve of pickle."
PCCraig -
I agree with you about that, which is why (in my mind at least) pickleball is a much lesser sport than tennis.
DT
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Billion dollar idea -- quiet pickleballs
I'm sure it can be done, that air-less basketball is very quiet when it bounces.
There is an air-less basketball?
Yes, here is a link: [size=78%]https://www.wilson.com/en-us/explore/basketball/airless-prototype (https://www.wilson.com/en-us/explore/basketball/airless-prototype)[/size]
It’s expensive now, but should get cheaper in time.
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Golf is a game where “quiet” at least when someone is playing a shot is part of the culture. The din of pickleball seems to run counter to that ethos and is somewhat analogous to having the local dog pound across the street from the first tee. I understand the appeal of pickleball but not at the golf course.
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"I think the big reason pickle and padel have become so popular is that there is no overhead serve. That takes a long learning curve for many compared to the underhand serve of pickle."
PCCraig -
I agree with you about that, which is why (in my mind at least) pickleball is a much lesser sport than tennis.
DT
Not sure I was stating that I thought one was a greater or lesser sport. I've spent most of my life playing squash as my primary racquet sport of choice. For years it seemed that racquet sports (tennis, squash, racquetball, etc.) were "dying" in popularity. Not sure I care what sport people enjoy most as so long as they enjoy it and it gets them out hitting a ball. It's all good.
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Another golf/racquet tie in. This one looks pretty niche.
https://uscourttennis.org/2023/new-real-tennis-court-debuts-at-sand-valley/ (https://uscourttennis.org/2023/new-real-tennis-court-debuts-at-sand-valley/)
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Buck W. -
Thanks for your post. Now there is a real racquet sport. :)
My guess it could be a hundred years since the last court tennis court was built in the U.S.
PCCraig -
Sorry, I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. But I stand by my opinion and what I wrote. ;)
DT
p.s. Call me (very) old school, but it is hard to take any game played with a wiffle ball seriously. :D
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Another golf/racquet tie in. This one looks pretty niche.
https://uscourttennis.org/2023/new-real-tennis-court-debuts-at-sand-valley/ (https://uscourttennis.org/2023/new-real-tennis-court-debuts-at-sand-valley/)
Real tennis is really fun and addicting. The nearest court is located in Chicago and I would think building the court at SV is an attempt to appeal to a certain well heeled group of prospective members/investors.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_tennis
Like the featherie in golf, the balls used in real/court tennis are hand sewn.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/10/sports/golf/masters-bernhard-langer.html?unlocked_article_code=1.jU0._5XI.cJIi4_5ouPrt&smid=url-share
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While Langer isn't among my favorite players of all time, he certainly is the one I respect the most. Having overcome the dreaded yips TWICE, speaks to his drive, focus, mental resolve and talent. I hope he recovers fully and quickly. The Champions, and PGA Tours, are better for his presence and participation.
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Langer isn't the only one with pickleball injuries.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/golf/pickleball-injuries-at-the-masters-we-can-explain/ar-BB1licYF