Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jim_Coleman on February 15, 2023, 11:43:18 AM
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What say you all?
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Just watched first episode...really well done and interesting!
Cheers
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Just watched first episode...really well done and interesting!
The first is supposedly the worst, and I've heard from enough that it's true that I'm relieved. It was a B- or so. (Oh, and the first episode isn't viewed as badly by non-golfers as it is by golfers, it seems based on my reading…).
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I watched the 1st 4 episodes tonight as the wife is out of town.
The series is just OK and overall feels like player profile spotlights mixed in with tournament recaps. It doesn't have the continuity of a normal series, and can be watched standalone. Each episode focuses mostly on 1-2 players: JT & Spieth (ep.1), Brooks & Scheffler (ep.2), Ian Poulter (ep.3), or Joel Dahmien (ep. 4), so if you want a deeper dive on those guys, then its a decent watch.
Other aspects are a bit annoying in how they explain basic background info over and over again like:
- players don't make money if they don't make the cut,
- size of the field,
- world rankings,
- Nature of LIV Golf,
etc.
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Is the entire series out of time order? I found this off-putting. Two episodes in, bang average tv. A story is meant to hook the viewer from the start. Whatever the hook was it didn't work for me. I will try another episode.
Ciao
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I'm hoping for something that I probably won't get.
Most won't have watched Sunderland Till I Die, which was one on the first behind the scenes look, terrific series.
I know people liked Drive to Survive, I found it cringeable and put on, then we got an insight into Michael Jordan trying to prove he's not as big of a dick that everyone suspects he is. Followed by some puff pieces on Tottenham and a few others.
The genre is dead to me........but I will still watch the golf one given the rugby league hasn't started yet.
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I’ve watched two episodes. The visuals are very good, the forced moments of supposedly candid conversations are cringe worthy. Like when out of the blue Jordan calls JT to discuss his best man speech when both are being filmed, ugh.
I’ll watch all eight episodes and cancel my Netflix, nothing on there I can’t live without and so many let downs.
This confirms it, give me a split of HBO Max 11 months Netflix 1 month.
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Based on #1, I would only watch an episode if it tracks a golfer of which you're particularly fond. The actual golf part is not going to appeal much to enthusiastic golfers.
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I found a link which has a breakdown of every episode, who they highlight, the main points, etc... but don't want to post up spoilers just yet I guess. :-\
P.S. Overall it feels like the target audience is not necessarily those who are already familiar with the Pro Tours and players, but those who may be tuning in now given all the drama in the media the last year.
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If you're an avid golf fan, the show probably isn't aimed at you. The production company is the same one that does Drive to Survive. That series was decidedly not aimed at avid F1 fans. I'd guess F1 did it in order to bring in new Non-F1 fans (by definition, they don't need to convince current F1 fans to watch F1). For them it worked, in the years since DTS premiered, US viewership numbers of F1 races have essentially doubled. I'd guess that's what the PGA Tour people would like to see. I doubt it will work the same, F1 was working from a much lower floor (in the US) than golf is.
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I don't follow golf and am amazed at how much of this series that I already knew. Although, I never heard of the Joel fella nor the chap of Indian descent. Its incredible how much I pick up being around golf wingnuts.
Ciao
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I have watched two episodes. I liked the first and thought it did a great job illustrating the highs and lows of tournament play. I found the second episode painful to watch. Brooks does not seem like a very interesting guy other than the fact that he is competitive and was not playing well at the time of filming.
Having said that, I loved the first couple of seasons of Drive to Survive but now find the show repeating itself with far less interesting content. The difference could well be me. I know the characters now.
I alreay know the characters on the golf show.
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Really recommend the Joel Dahmen episode.
Drive to Survive got me into F1 in 2020... I watched every race the last two years and now follow F1 like a true fanatic. I tried watching D2S after following the sport for some time and it became totally unwatchable. Played up storylines that weren't really relevant or true and everything just surface level drama to draw new fans in... but it worked on me once!
5 episodes in, I think Full Swing is doing a decent job with the products and personalities they have. The repeating of basics is somewhat annoying, but it's not meant for us. The presentation of on-course drama is reasonably well done, and in some ways does a better job of communicating what's happening than they do for F1.
While the players do not have dramatic or objectively interesting lives, I think they have done a good job of presenting their personalities and just how different their views on success, golf, work, and the PGA Tour / LIV are. Brooks episode was particularly fascinating, and credit must be given for his openness on camera even if many of us would not have jumped to LIV when going through a slump.
Final thought: Joel's wife and caddie seem awesome (all the caddies in fact). Jena and Paulina would make me miserable whether I played on the PGA Tour or on LIV (a very realistic hypothetical of course ::) )
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Watched the Poulter episode and apparently he flies private everywhere??? Is it that common on tour? I know he has done well, but that chews away at any earnings quite quickly.
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I'll be interested in where this thread goes, because in the F1 fandom, on forums like this, we've had many discussions about the netflix effect on the sport. We've debated whether the series shows a realistic vision of the sport (no, not really), whether the show is any good (half like it, half don't really), whether it has brought in new fans (indisputably yes, especially in the US), whether that's a good thing (I certainly think so, and I think the majority agree), and more besides. I still watch it. I realize it's more like Real Housewives than Hoop Dreams, but it's enjoyable. And my wife will watch it with me, she thinks the drivers are cute, especially the Ferrari guys. But mostly I'm happy it's pulled in people like Alex and Jason and whoever else has sort of caught the bug. I actually run into fellow F1 Fans in the wild now, not something that happened much pre DTS.
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While the players do not have dramatic or objectively interesting lives, I think they have done a good job of presenting their personalities and just how different their views on success, golf, work, and the PGA Tour / LIV are. Brooks episode was particularly fascinating, and credit must be given for his openness on camera even if many of us would not have jumped to LIV when going through a slump.
Alex,
I don't understand the last part of this statement. If anything, this is exactly why he jumped to LIV, cause he knew he was probably done and struggling with doubts about his future, so he took the guaranteed money. The Ian Poulter episode seemed very similar in that respect and he even mentioned how frustrating it was with his decline.
P.S. The saddest thing about Brooks was seeing the massive custom trophy shelf he built in his front room which was mostly empty, (and likely to stay that way including the prime center slot for the "future" Augusta trophy)
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While the players do not have dramatic or objectively interesting lives, I think they have done a good job of presenting their personalities and just how different their views on success, golf, work, and the PGA Tour / LIV are. Brooks episode was particularly fascinating, and credit must be given for his openness on camera even if many of us would not have jumped to LIV when going through a slump.
Alex,
I don't understand the last part of this statement. If anything, this is exactly why he jumped to LIV, cause he knew he was probably done and struggling with doubts about his future, so he took the guaranteed money. The Ian Poulter episode seemed very similar in that respect and he even mentioned how frustrating it was with his decline.
P.S. The saddest thing about Brooks was seeing the massive custom trophy shelf he built in his front room which was mostly empty, (and likely to stay that way including the prime center slot for the "future" Augusta trophy)
Yes that is why he jumped and many of us may have assumed that, but has any player every shared that publicly? I'm not a Brooks fan btw...
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I have watched a few of them, and it kind of feels like a behind-the-scenes soap opera. I doubt I'll watch them all.
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Watched the first two episodes. Spieth/Thomas was boring. Two guys consciously taping a puff piece for their brands. Koepka was a little sad, watching a former alpha feeling sorry for himself. This feels much more scripted than the F-1 series, but maybe that’s because I know golf and don’t know F-1. I’ll watch the whole thing, but have lowered my expectations.
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I have watched the first few and I like the Dahmen eposide the best. But these shows are very superficial and they don't go into anything in any depth. Interview with the players, coaches or media personnel tend to be short sound bites that only last a few seconds.
The Dahmen episode talks about his mom dying of cancer when he was in high school, but they barely touch on Dahmen's testicular cancer in his early 20s.
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They made interesting choices in whose stories they intertwined.
Collin has an air of golden boy about him but when contrasted against Finau he looks like an elitist ass. After hearing how Tony learned to hitting all week into a mattress in their one-car garage, then going to the range on Saturday to see how the ball is flying, the writers cut to Collin pulling off a new golf glove because it’s pinching at the thumb seam. It’s delicious.
Scottie and Brooks, another deliberate choice to bring the players into relief through contrast. There’s a scene of Scheffler and his wife playfully tasting each other’s iced coffees, which is contrasted against Brooks’ over the top right from a car ad home replete with fur covered swinging seat. I found that juxtaposition very effective at making Brooks look unhinged. Which he is! He’s hunting the high of victory and sees it receding from his grasp. Scheffler’s innocence just makes Brooks’ struggle to accept his golf mortality all the more jarring.
Later, in the Fitzy episode there’s a throw away transition shot where they show players prepping for the round. Brooks pulls a huge pinch of chaw and as he’s shoving it into his maw they pan over to Fitzy applying a liberal layer of sunscreen. It’s 4 seconds of fill, but it captures their arcs, responsible and deliberate vs self-destructive, quite neatly. That they found, assessed, and included this shot in the Final Cut, given how many hours of footage there must be, was impressive as well.
It was these touches and more generally the use of unnarrated storytelling that I think is so well done. As I watched more I really felt that the producers had a POV on the personalities and were expressing it through the choices of storylines and editing.
I also think they do a good job of communicating the vibes of the cast. Joel’s boozy party with friends, Mito and the Latin 20-something expats relying on each other, Finau’s genuine familiarity with family card night. All of these scenes are done well and with a human touch.
I also love how they capture the pressure of the job. It’s a theme throughout and really is the juice behind pro golf.
All in all very well done.
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Keopka’s wife is a Paulina Gretzky wannabe. Who are the golf writers they keep showing? Never heard of any of them.
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Watched the Poulter episode and apparently he flies private everywhere??? Is it that common on tour? I know he has done well, but that chews away at any earnings quite quickly.
Jeff many of the players have Netjets sponsorship which I gather is in hours, hence many of the guys pooling hours on tour and sharing jets to and from the likes of Orlando. Poulter flying his family transatlantic private would have been expensive whether he paid or used his mileage credits.
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Watched the Poulter episode and apparently he flies private everywhere??? Is it that common on tour? I know he has done well, but that chews away at any earnings quite quickly.
Jeff many of the players have Netjets sponsorship which I gather is in hours, hence many of the guys pooling hours on tour and sharing jets to and from the likes of Orlando. Poulter flying his family transatlantic private would have been expensive whether he paid or used his mileage credits.
I remember a story from Lee Westwood. He and his family always flew private. They were going somewhere and had to take a commercial plane. His young son says "dad, who are all these people on our plane".....
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I’ve watched two episodes. The visuals are very good, the forced moments of supposedly candid conversations are cringe worthy. Like when out of the blue Jordan calls JT to discuss his best man speech when both are being filmed, ugh.
I’ll watch all eight episodes and cancel my Netflix, nothing on there I can’t live without and so many let downs.
This confirms it, give me a split of HBO Max 11 months Netflix 1 month.
Hi Mike,
Before you quit Netflix, I recommend the new Bill Russell documentary. Opinions will differ, but I consider Bill Russell to be the greatest American sportsman of my lifetime.
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Keopka’s wife is a Paulina Gretzky wannabe. Who are the golf writers they keep showing? Never heard of any of them.
I think she may have more acting credits than Paulina - after all, she did star in Attack of the 50 Foot Cheerleader!
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Keopka’s wife is a Paulina Gretzky wannabe. Who are the golf writers they keep showing? Never heard of any of them.
I think she may have more acting credits than Paulina - after all, she did star in Attack of the 50 Foot Cheerleader!
To be fair, it's my understanding that she beat out Meryl Streep, Sissy Spacek, Judy Dench and Helen Mirren to secure the lead role in this under appreciated cinematic masterpiece.
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I’ve watched two episodes. The visuals are very good, the forced moments of supposedly candid conversations are cringe worthy. Like when out of the blue Jordan calls JT to discuss his best man speech when both are being filmed, ugh.
I’ll watch all eight episodes and cancel my Netflix, nothing on there I can’t live without and so many let downs.
This confirms it, give me a split of HBO Max 11 months Netflix 1 month.
Hi Mike,
Before you quit Netflix, I recommend the new Bill Russell documentary. Opinions will differ, but I consider Bill Russell to be the greatest American sportsman of my lifetime.
John-I agree on the Bill Russell documentary. It’s about way more than basketball and the civil rights component is incredibly eye opening. I was always a Russell fan but way more so after watching.
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Hi Tim,
I am learning some new things, too. I am making the recommendation having watched the first two hours, and have another hour left to watch.
Just a couple of observations:
Since the documentary takes its time telling the story, you get a better feel for the amazing streak of championships (11 in 13 years). Each year has its own challenges, and yet there they were at the end of the season, winning all of the close game 7s. You've probably heard the statistic that he was 21-0 participating in elimination games in his college, Olympic and pro career.
Everything about him is so admirable. It's so humbling and so instructive. His incredible sense of dignity and purpose, and that keen sense of humor when the time is right. What a great teammate and leader.
I was just a few years old when my Dad first mentioned the Celtics and how their great defensive center was the key to their success. So I have sentimental reasons why Russell may seem so important to me. Things your Dad tells you when you're young take on great meaning as you get old. It hit me like a ton of bricks when Russell passed away. It's hard to explain why.
Sorry for detouring away from the golf documentary.
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I have no idea what the basketball guy is talking about, back to the documentary.
I have hung in because I'm a golf tragic but it's almost like Captain Saccharine Nantz is writing the script. It's beyond woeful and makes the "insights" from the Michael Jordan puff piece look like revelations.
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The only thing I didn’t know is what a good guy Joel Dahman is. I guess I should have had a clue, as Max Homa has been saying it to whomever would listen. And Max is cool too.
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Enjoyable OT thread, thanks, guys.
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I'm on the Joel Dahman episode. Good guy for sure but is it worth an episode? Ian Poulter comes off as kind of jerk. I'm going to finish it but it's certainly not great. Too slow.
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Also something I noticed throughout is what about the no hats in the clubhouse rule?????? ??? Seems almost everybody in the clubhouse is wearing their hats.
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I'm on the Joel Dahman episode. Good guy for sure but is it worth an episode? Ian Poulter comes off as kind of jerk. I'm going to finish it but it's certainly not great. Too slow.
Rob,
Completely agreed on both counts.
P.S. I watched the Tony Finau episode last night and that is the clear winner in my book. He's overcome a ton to get where he is and come out on the other side not only an elite player, but a gem of a person to boot.
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I'm on the Joel Dahman episode. Good guy for sure but is it worth an episode? Ian Poulter comes off as kind of jerk. I'm going to finish it but it's certainly not great. Too slow.
The Dahmen episode was my favourite but I found it too superficial. They barely mentioned his own battle with cancer - they could have spent more time on that and how he had to grind his way onto the tour. He had to play the PGA Tour Canada for five years before he won the order of merit and got elevated.
I would rather see that then JT and JS gambling on a PJ.
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I'm on the Joel Dahman episode. Good guy for sure but is it worth an episode? Ian Poulter comes off as kind of jerk. I'm going to finish it but it's certainly not great. Too slow.
Rob,
Completely agreed on both counts.
P.S. I watched the Tony Finau episode last night and that is the clear winner in my book. He's overcome a ton to get where he is and come out on the other side not only an elite player, but a gem of a person to boot.
The dented garage door at Mr. Finau’s home was the best moment of the show for me yet. Finau, Fitzpatrick and Dahmen and the boys from Chile were the biggest winners. Good job by the producers to select a couple of lesser known guys that had real runs at winning a major.
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I just finished watching the last of the episodes last night.
I enjoyed them all; but now have a far greater appreciation for Tony Finau, Mito Periera, Sahith Theegala & Joel Dahmen.
I did enjoy the final installment where Rory got some air time. He is one of the guys who has the ability to handle the torch when Tiger is done......and in addition to his golfing skills appears to be (or has been coached to be) really genuine on camera ("F*ck you Phil" - a great line).
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This group is a tough audience.
As evidenced by the inclusion of definitions of par, birdie and bogey and many explanations of how a PGA Tour event works, how US Open qualifying works, etc., it's a show aimed primarily at casual golf fans and non golf fans (which make up a much bigger audience than GCA geeks). The series is basically a bunch of human interest stories about pro golfers well known and not well known, together with a chronicle of the year on tour. I think they did a good job based on the intended audience and platform (It's not the Golf Channel). It may not be compelling TV, but it held my interest and made me feel good about several players, their wives and families (Dahmen, Finau, Fitz, Scheffler, Homa et al) and made others seem less likeable (e.g. Brooks). I guess that's less appealing here than a 7 page, 150+ post re-run thread about whether angles "don't matter" or if they ""just matter a little". ;D
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Also something I noticed throughout is what about the no hats in the clubhouse rule? ??? ?? ??? Seems almost everybody in the clubhouse is wearing their hats.
I had the same reaction. I do not particularly care whether people wear hats in a clubhouse but enough people care that I follow the convention unless I am certain it does not apply. I believe they were wearing hats into the Augusta National Clubhouse. I would not think sponsorship interests would trump clubhouse rules there.
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Golfers are boring was my thought at the end. But it filled the time.
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A wasted opportunity to watch pain dry.
Atb
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A wasted opportunity to watch pain dry.
Atb
Nice unintended pun (i presume). Some of it was indeed painful to watch... ;)
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Golfers are boring was my thought at the end. But it filled the time.
Did you expect more?
Ciao
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I watched Episode I last week - thought it was boring.
Watched Epidode 2 last night and turned it off after 17 minutes.
Brooks Koepka is as engaging and interesting as a house plant.
Will endeavor to move through the series to find at least some reason to finish the next episodes....maybe skimming until a storyline actually emerges.
My wife keeps chirping, "The tennis show is SO much better than this."
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I'm through about 6 episodes.
Generally speaking I've enjoyed the series. The Fitzpatrick / DJ episode was very well done and as I watched the footage of a bunch of drunk Boston morons yelling insults at Fitzpatrick, I found myself really rooting for him even though I already know he won. DJ's ability to make his own personal decisions without a care of what anyone else outside of his family thinks is impressive.
The footage of tournament play and the corresponding host sites are really high quality (film quality, 4K?) and really adds to the narrative.
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I like Tony Finau the person and golfer, but man did they spend an inordinate amount of camera time showing him interacting with his family - both on and off the course. Don't get me wrong, he's got a beautiful family, but it was a bit over the top. I dind't find those segements to be all that entertaining and I feel Morikawa got short end of the stick story and appearance-wise in that episode. I'm sure the producers felt Collin's story wasn't as interesting as Tony's, which is why his was more that episodes focus.
My favorite installment thus far was the Brooks and Scotty episode for the reasons David mentioned previously. It was an interesting dichotomy of a fallen king to an ascendent one and a great comparison and contrast of lifestyles, i.e. Scottie and his wife's more humble existence to Brook and Jenna's lavish "look how cool we are" pretentiousness.
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I like Tony Finau the person and golfer, but man did they spend an inordinate amount of camera time showing him interacting with his family - both on and off the course. Don't get me wrong, he's got a beautiful family, but it was a bit over the top. I dind't find those segements to be all that entertaining and I feel Morikawa got short end of the stick story and appearance-wise in that episode. I'm sure the producers felt Collin's story wasn't as interesting as Tony's, which is why his was more that episodes focus.
My favorite installment thus far was the Brooks and Scotty episode for the reasons David mentioned previously. It was an interesting dichotomy of a fallen king to an ascendent one and a great comparison and contrast of lifestyles, i.e. Scottie and his wife's more humble existence to Brook and Jenna's lavish "look how cool we are" pretentiousness.
I laughed out loud when they showed Jenna and her face looked sweaty and oily. I have to imagine that she flipped when she saw that.....Pretentiousness is being polite.
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I laughed out loud when they showed Jenna and her face looked sweaty and oily. I have to imagine that she flipped when she saw that.....Pretentiousness is being polite.
Beware, they now have to face the wrath of the 50 foot cheerleader:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Filarge.lisimg.com%2Fimage%2F21510049%2F740full-attack-of-the-50-foot-cheerleader-poster.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=eb44c168cb258774c1d453579e7d1a33424dff105a6cfab20ba7460cec2debad&ipo=images)
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I like Tony Finau the person and golfer, but man did they spend an inordinate amount of camera time showing him interacting with his family - both on and off the course. Don't get me wrong, he's got a beautiful family, but it was a bit over the top. I dind't find those segements to be all that entertaining and I feel Morikawa got short end of the stick story and appearance-wise in that episode. I'm sure the producers felt Collin's story wasn't as interesting as Tony's, which is why his was more that episodes focus.
Mike,
You make some good points, but they may have done Colin a favor with limited coverage because he came off the worst of anyone else in the series (I already knew Brooks, Jordan, Ian, etc were pretentious asses) ;D
In one bit, he sat there niggling every minute detail of his on course attire with an entire team of fashionistas looking on with trepidation. Is that really how he prefers to spend his time?
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I laughed out loud when they showed Jenna and her face looked sweaty and oily. I have to imagine that she flipped when she saw that.....Pretentiousness is being polite.
Beware, they now have to face the wrath of the 50 foot cheerleader:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Filarge.lisimg.com%2Fimage%2F21510049%2F740full-attack-of-the-50-foot-cheerleader-poster.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=eb44c168cb258774c1d453579e7d1a33424dff105a6cfab20ba7460cec2debad&ipo=images)
;D ;D ;D
Best post of the day!
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In one bit, he sat there niggling every minute detail of his on course attire with an entire team of fashionistas looking on with trepidation. Is that really how he prefers to spend his time?
KB, I agree wholeheartedly, but these aren't regular guys we're talking about. Social media has turned them into "brands" and thus they've become influencers, brand ambassadors and have an image to uphold.
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In one bit, he sat there niggling every minute detail of his on course attire with an entire team of fashionistas looking on with trepidation. Is that really how he prefers to spend his time?
I doubt it's how he prefers to spend his time, but unless he wants to wear an orange top with olive green pants, you bet he's going to sit in on a brief meeting and nix or approve his outfits. Just part of what he's paid to do as a sponsored athlete.
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In one bit, he sat there niggling every minute detail of his on course attire with an entire team of fashionistas looking on with trepidation. Is that really how he prefers to spend his time?
I doubt it's how he prefers to spend his time, but unless he wants to wear an orange top with olive green pants, you bet he's going to sit in on a brief meeting and nix or approve his outfits. Just part of what he's paid to do as a sponsored athlete.
When some of the guys show up dressed like clowns at majors, I always wondered if they simply have no say or style. This tells me ,if they want to negotiate it in their contracts they can have some say. You would have thought he had a handle of booze on the table and was throwing things around based on the reactions I’ve heard from many on this clip.
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The players have a huge say in their appearance, if they so desire.
Some get swayed by publicists/agents, others just get weird ideas, and some simply have no taste...but they absolutely can decide 99.99% of everything.
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I watched the whole thing and thought it was good and interesting. It certainly wasn't a waste of time.
My non-golfing better half watched it with me and she really enjoyed it. She really liked the storytelling of it.
She has since asked who was leading the current tournament and watched a little of the Players with me - those are two things that never happened before.
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I’ve watched two episodes. The visuals are very good, the forced moments of supposedly candid conversations are cringe worthy. Like when out of the blue Jordan calls JT to discuss his best man speech when both are being filmed, ugh.
I’ll watch all eight episodes and cancel my Netflix, nothing on there I can’t live without and so many let downs.
This confirms it, give me a split of HBO Max 11 months Netflix 1 month.
Hi Mike,
Before you quit Netflix, I recommend the new Bill Russell documentary. Opinions will differ, but I consider Bill Russell to be the greatest American sportsman of my lifetime.
Just finished the Russell documentary and really enjoyed it, especially for a guy on the other side of that rivalry with the Lakers as a kid. I despised all things Celtics, but you are right, much of it I already knew, but BR seems like a good dude overall.
As an aside, I am one of those DTS success stories. I never watched F1 (or very little) someone told me during the pandemic when I was searching for something to binge "you should check out Drive to Survive I think you would like it!" And I did. I am hooked, F-1 is probably now my favorite (or 2nd) sport to watch. I look forward to it probably as much or more than anything except maybe MN Vikings games. I do agree now that I watch every F1 race live and even practice and qualifying days, I now find DTS to have lost its luster. I know what is going to happen in every race.
I literally dont watch much PGA Tour golf anymore since most of my favorite player left and I was growing weary of PGA Tour before that anyway. I am stoked for the majors still, but I used to never miss a Bay Hill or a Honda, but not anymore. I dont miss it, and I am playing golf more than ever, just not watching it as much.
I think both of these documentaries are meant to bring new eyes to a sport, and maybe slightly entertain the fringe kook fans like us as well.