Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Marty Bonnar on February 02, 2023, 05:16:35 PM
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https://www.struttandparker.com/properties/spey-bay-golf-club-caravan-park (https://www.struttandparker.com/properties/spey-bay-golf-club-caravan-park)
Boy, I’m in!
F.
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https://www.struttandparker.com/properties/spey-bay-golf-club-caravan-park (https://www.struttandparker.com/properties/spey-bay-golf-club-caravan-park)
Boy, I’m in!
F.
Are you going to be the pro?
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The purchase price isn't the biggest concern. What do you think the annual maintenance budget would need to be?
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https://www.struttandparker.com/properties/spey-bay-golf-club-caravan-park (https://www.struttandparker.com/properties/spey-bay-golf-club-caravan-park)
Boy, I’m in!
F.
Are you going to be the pro?
No, just the consulting designer!
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Ah, I see now…
… you want us to chip in a grand each so you can have a sand pit to play in.
;D
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The purchase price isn't the biggest concern. What do you think the annual maintenance budget would need to be?
Stewart
About 10 years ago I worked and lived up that way and played the course a few times. At that time the wooden shack was pretty basic and fit only for changing your shoes in, if it was open, and there was an honesty box outside for greenfees which weren't much more than £10 if I remember correctly.
The greenkeeping shed was a corrugated tin hut of about 20 feet by 30 feet and in terms of equipment, they had an old gang mower and presumably a smaller mower for the greens. They didn't have a greenkeeper as such but instead had someone from a local club who would do a bit in the evenings. Rumour had it that as soon as the dilapidated gang mower packed in that the club/course would fold. A short time after that someone came along and bought the course (presumably the present owners ?) and spruced up the clubhouse. I don't know what they did with the greenkeeping side of things but they'd have had to make some investment in that, just to keep it going. In terms of man power, one man should do it.
In terms of the course, they lost a few holes to coastal erosion prior to when I played it so it's not as Sayers designed and Andrew Simpson built. Because of the loss of land, the routing is a bit screwed and at one point there is a 300 yard walk to the next tee if I remember correctly. Indeed I was a bit surprised to read in the sale brochure that there was c.150 acres of land because the course is quite modest in size. It's what I'd call holiday golf with a mixture of nice quirk, good golf and humdrum golf. Well worth a play if up there but not sure I'd personally be shelling out £750K to own it.
Niall
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When did they lose the land to erosion, Niall?
I last played the course in 1989 and remember rudimentary maintenance but some really nice rumple in parts. I’m assuming the original holes were lost long before that? I have no recollection of whether there was a non-links very humdrum part of the course or not. I suspect there was.
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There’s some lovely links land at Spey Bay and several very good holes. I paid £25 for a round a couple of years ago and really enjoyed. Holiday golf maybe, but I can think of a lot worse ways to spend a few hours on holiday. It definitely deserves to be better known but getting a return on £750k might be a challenge (I had the place completely to myself on a summer’s afternoon).
I suspect the lost holes were at the far end of the course and the current holes 4-6 are the replacements.
Not the best photos as I only had my old iPhone with me but they give you an idea of the lovely fairway undulations and the heathery nature of the site.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51818926072_715c6edf95_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51820216279_d561df9854_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51819872581_164e6ebc90_c.jpg)
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Ally
I was working up in Moray from 2009 to 2012 and from what acquaintances and colleagues told me that bit of the coast, which is shingle and shell, is prone to erosion. Not sure when they lost the holes but given how quickly people forget things like this I suspect it was maybe after your visit since more than one person was able to tell me about it.
As you probably know the course is just along from the mouth of the river Spey (hence Spey Bay) and on the other side of where the river meets the sea is the Garmouth and Kingston course. I've told the story before but I played it one time with someone who was well acquainted with the course over a period of decades, and as we played one of the holes along the Spey, he pointed out into the river and said, "that used to be a lovely par 3" ! So I think you can take it from that erosion is very much an issue up there.
Niall
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51818926072_715c6edf95_c.jpg)
James
Excellent. I was going to mention another thing about the routing and that was that it appeared to me that quite a lot of the holes had been changed. Either lengthened or 2 holes made into 1, that sort of thing. The above photo being a case in point. I think you can make out a raised green site with a raised tee ground back left of the green in this picture. If I remember it slopes slightly towards the player and would have made a cracking hole whether as a par 3 or perhaps a short par 4. The present green, further on and tucked in on the left is no great shakes and doesn't appear original to my eye. Many of the greens are the old fashioned "regulation" 20 by 20 paces which is interesting considering it was laid out in 1906.
In terms of how quiet it is, I was told about it by a friend who used to play it in the summer evenings and he told me he made sure he always took his phone with him in case he slipped and injured himself so he could call for help as there was little chance of anyone else being about to assist.
Niall
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I was surprised to see such a large and modern clubhouse on the property. Does anyone know when it was built?
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Quite nice drone footage in the video. Pretty classic links setup running along the coast. Shame it was so late in the year with frost covered. Sure would be nice in spring and summer.
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If 750 of us ponied up the £1k each that would buy us the place.
A modest 500quid subs each year would bring in, ehm, let’s see, carry the four , divide by twelve, add the subtraction and multiply the minus…
Oh, right! £375k p/a.
Plus maybe some income from our own bar and dormie house accoms. It’s Gold, Jerry, GOLD!
OUR very own playground.
I am sooooo in.
F.
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How good is the course Marty?
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How good is the course Marty?
Never played it, Charlie. But WE could make it great!
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It looks like a nice piece of land from the google aerial and the photos at the link. I see it's 30+ miles from Nairn, are there any other great courses near to it? Also, where is the nearest airport that has flights to/from the US (Aberdeen)?
I could imagine it being very appealing though, especially if there were some caravans on site and a GCAer could stay in one, have breakfast in the clubhouse, play a nice course elsewhere in the morning and then come back for a lunch and play a neverending loop until sundown and a raucous dinner and drinks in the clubhouse with other GCA-types and then amble across the carpark to the caravan and get a good night's sleep.
It would also be very cool to be even a small part of the process of improving the links. Just being able to talk to others about what's happening around the course and get tours from the people doing the work would be a special privilege.
Edit: Yeah, I'm in
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If 750 of us ponied up the £1k each that would buy us the place.
A modest 500quid subs each year would bring in, ehm, let’s see, carry the four , divide by twelve, add the subtraction and multiply the minus…
Oh, right! £375k p/a.
Plus maybe some income from our own bar and dormie house accoms. It’s Gold, Jerry, GOLD!
OUR very own playground.
I am sooooo in.
F.
For some reason this reminds me of the late night conversations when I was a student. We'd all agree it was afoolproof plan, Nothing had been be left to chance....
Until someone would say
"As long as we agree I'm the getaway driver.."
"But I own the only car...."
"You drive to slow...."
"Last time I give you a lift...."
PS I've just checked the Swagbag and yes I have £1K left... as long as I'm Head of the Greens Committee...
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If 750 of us ponied up the £1k each that would buy us the place.
A modest 500quid subs each year would bring in, ehm, let’s see, carry the four , divide by twelve, add the subtraction and multiply the minus…
Oh, right! £375k p/a.
Plus maybe some income from our own bar and dormie house accoms. It’s Gold, Jerry, GOLD!
OUR very own playground.
I am sooooo in.
F.
On sand, 150 acres, next to the seashore, in Scotland, near Castle Stuart, Nairn, Inverness Airport and not really that far from the likes of Dornoch, Brora, Cruden Bay etc. Localised ‘mild’ micro-climate. Sounds like a potential winner.
750 on the Green Committee. Arghhhhhhhh……….!
Atb
PS - it’s here - https://www.instantstreetview.com/@57.669863,-3.073401,14z,0t (https://www.instantstreetview.com/@57.669863,-3.073401,14z,0t)
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"It looks like a nice piece of land from the google aerial and the photos at the link. I see it's 30+ miles from Nairn, are there any other great courses near to it? Also, where is the nearest airport that has flights to/from the US (Aberdeen)?"
Charlie G. -
There must be at least a dozen courses along the 100-mile stretch of coastline between Inverness and Fraserburgh. The best ones are Nairn, Castle Stuart, Moray Old (aka Lossiemouth), Fraserburgh and Duff House Royal. Moray Old is the closest.
As far as I know, the only direct flights from the U.S. to Scotland land in Glasgow or Edinburgh. There are no direct flights from the U.S. that land in Aberdeen or Inverness.
DT
p.s. My guess is this property will sell above the 750,000 pound "offers above" price.
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I don't see any reason to worry about flights from the US as most of the guys I know who travel over to the UK and Ireland would never consider playing a course that is reasonably priced.
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While it sounds exciting to think that GCAer's could band together for such an endeavor, the realistic work of undertaking it will fall on a couple people to work on so many tasks it fades quickly. Perhaps one of the golfing societies would be interested to make it their home course.
- I believe the Eden Club has a castle they own in Scotland.
- The Outpost Club has one of their home courses in England.
- Eligio, Eighty, Silver Club, New, etc.
They have members and travel around so maybe this could be of interest as an anchor course for their members.
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https://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/23294680.historic-moray-golf-course-designed-ben-sayers-sale/
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https://www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/british-restoration-opportunities (https://www.ukgolfguy.com/golf-blog/british-restoration-opportunities)
A good time to remind you of Spey Bay's place in this article.
I've played it and even stayed in the later version of the Spey Bay hotel, before it was demolished. It's a lonely spot, but quite gorgeous.
I actually don't think its a bad idea, as long as you're prepared to run a caravan park too. I'd be tempted.
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"I actually don't think its a bad idea, as long as you're prepared to run a caravan park too."
Robin -
It would not surprise me at all if it was far easier to operate the caravan park profitably than the golf course. If the golf course could be operated on a breakeven basis, the real money could be made in the caravan park, the bar and the driving range.
DT
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A more realistic option than Coul? Already on-site, grandfathered-in etc. Buy and tweak rather than start from nothing?
Would seem like an ‘Opportunity Knocks’ situation.
atb
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Take a look at the rest of the neighbourhood too. Garmouth & Kingston, Moray, Cullen, Duff House Royal. It’s the new Bandon, dudes!
F.
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I have actually been looking at this for the last few days. Its right up my street but not without reservations.
This video is awesome and will get everyone's taste buds going!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcdGXHlqLTQ
Tentatively I am looking at forming a UK Limited company with 400 shares at £2,500 per share, if anyone was interested and if you had 5 shares you have life membership if UK based, I am sure some locals would buy a few. Of course it might get sold very quickly to another and in my research further quirks my spring up.
There are a number of snags, membership fees and incomes are low, the course has poor identity, website, presence. I think the equipment is not great. I don't know what lease agreements are in place or secondary debt, or even the clubhouse situation.
The golf course is the money drain, the clubhouse might squeak out level par. The real key to financial success would be the expansion of the holiday accommodation with possibly new lodges. From looking at planning history over the last 10 years Moray council would appear to encourage the sort of development that would be wanted.
Primarily the golf course needs to be better to hit that £60 green fee market and fit in with being part of the circuit golfers want to play, perhaps longer and from google earth the course could easily have simple back tee extensions on at least 9 holes. the 13th is a bit rubbish but could be extended to a 400 yard par 4 taking advantage of the sea view and 15 I would realign again for the same reasons. With tee extensions at 2-3-5-6-7-9-10-11-12-14; That could take the course close to 7000 yards from the very back tees. The course length would hardly alter for normal play. That might seem unrequired to GCA opinion but it is part of the factoring for getting volumes of stay and play visitors. Would be interested to here anyone else's 'google earth' thoughts.
I don't know anything about the shingle and the problems that might be, there appears no irrigation system. Erosion of course is another unknown. A key point to always bear in mind is the distances between travelling to and from. Edinburgh airport is still over 3 hours away, Dornoch from SB might be nearly 2 hours. The area is rich for golf but linking Brora and further north to this for lodging is a bit of a stretch.
I also think this could be a project Tom Doak might want to get involved in for a %. That would give the whole thing some traction.
As already said some of the best sites are staring us in the face, Spey Bay has already got over the huge hurdles of planning law. This is a good head start.
Early Days...I have interest in 160 shares already.
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Take a look at the rest of the neighbourhood too. Garmouth & Kingston, Moray, Cullen, Duff House Royal. It’s the new Bandon, dudes!
F.
Shhhhh.
I had Donegal as a private playground for 25 years.
Let’s not bring the masses here too.
I really enjoyed my time there…good bones. As does the entire untravelled** area dotted with cool low key courses
(by International visitors)
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It's only an hour from Inverness airport or an hour 15 min from Aberdeen airport, each of which connect to London, Dublin and the continent and it's more or less the center point among Cruden Bay, Fraserburgh, Duff House Royal, Cullen, Moray, Nairn, Nairn Dunbar and Cabot/Castle Stuart. If there was a decent dormie house or other accommodation it could be the hub of a good week or so of nearby links, with a good mix of expensive big names and some bargain gems.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52672932196_f10e634494_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ofwxDo)
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The closing date for offers to buy the course was February 23. The course is now "under offer." That did not take long!
https://www.struttandparker.com/properties/spey-bay-golf-club-caravan-park
It would certainly be interesting to know how much the property sells for.
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Looks like it could be from this American crew:
https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/02/22/linksdao-to-bid-on-scottish-golf-course-following-vote/?outputType=amp (https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/02/22/linksdao-to-bid-on-scottish-golf-course-following-vote/?outputType=amp)
Scottish golf could feel like every other country in 50 years time: One big, commercial venture owned by foreign investors.
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Looks like it could be from this American crew:
https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/02/22/linksdao-to-bid-on-scottish-golf-course-following-vote/?outputType=amp (https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/02/22/linksdao-to-bid-on-scottish-golf-course-following-vote/?outputType=amp)
Scottish golf could feel like every other country in 50 years time: One big, commercial venture owned by foreign investors.
You could argue that there is too much money at the top end of Scottish golf. People drool over grass paths that are 5 feet wide 😕.
Ciao
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Looks like it could be from this American crew:
https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/02/22/linksdao-to-bid-on-scottish-golf-course-following-vote/?outputType=amp (https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/02/22/linksdao-to-bid-on-scottish-golf-course-following-vote/?outputType=amp)
Scottish golf could feel like every other country in 50 years time: One big, commercial venture owned by foreign investors.
You could argue that there is too much money at the top end of Scottish golf. People drool over grass paths that are 5 feet wide 😕.
Ciao
Correct. Grass paths are a luxury, not one I have at the links courses I’m working with where we’re just trying to reduce and improve the hard path material whilst increasing areas of grass that can be used without irrigation. Either that or you accept completely broken paths that kill the buggies and trollies. Whilst I quite like that, clubs hate it…
…anyway, off topic. Just relevant to what I’m dealing with right now.
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Looks like it could be from this American crew:
https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/02/22/linksdao-to-bid-on-scottish-golf-course-following-vote/?outputType=amp (https://www.coindesk.com/web3/2023/02/22/linksdao-to-bid-on-scottish-golf-course-following-vote/?outputType=amp)
Scottish golf could feel like every other country in 50 years time: One big, commercial venture owned by foreign investors.
You could argue that there is too much money at the top end of Scottish golf. People drool over grass paths that are 5 feet wide .
Ciao
Correct. Grass paths are a luxury, not one I have at the links courses I’m working with where we’re just trying to reduce and improve the hard path material whilst increasing areas of grass that can be used without irrigation. Either that or you accept completely broken paths that kill the buggies and trollies. Whilst I quite like that, clubs hate it…
…anyway, off topic. Just relevant to what I’m dealing with right now.
Remember the old seashell paths? I miss those.
Ciao
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I’m using a quartz stone at the moment that isn’t a million miles away from the old seashell effect.
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Ally -
Thanks for the LinksDAO info. I had no idea such a group existed. I am not sure how it functions in terms of how decisions get made, who signs the checks, etc.
My guess is there was more than one offer made on the property and the selling price will be well above the 750,000 pounds "offers above" stated.
DT
p.s. Don't forget that there was a time when the British Empire (much of the world) was one big, commercial venture owned by British (foreign) investors. ;)
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There is a LinksDAO Community podcast regarding their plans for Spey Bay on youtube that was recorded on March 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmBA0jcvK8A
Based on what was said, it is clear there are multiple bidders and the selling price will be well above 750,000 pounds.
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There is a LinksDAO Community podcast regarding their plans for Spey Bay on youtube that was recorded on March 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmBA0jcvK8A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmBA0jcvK8A)
Based on what was said, it is clear there are multiple bidders and the selling price will be well above 750,000 pounds.
Skip to 6mins, or even 7mins, perhaps 8, 12?....lots of havering...then general chat. Understandably light on detail.
Amazed they seem to have put in a bid without (it seems) a clear and strong plan of what they are going to do to the course and facilities, the cost of that and then how make the money back. In my experience starting to spend on a project without that clear plan as reference, is the best way to loose money. I guess if you have lots in the bank the need to spend it is compelling.
If you listen to the previous one (around 28mins)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA2TNIRaOmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA2TNIRaOmQ)
they are very excited by the cost only being 10 to 20% of buying a course in the US.
They discuss business plan around 36mins. There is talk of building 'cottages/lodges' - may work in US but rare in UK. JCB? Renaissance?
At 39mins they talk about a management company to run it day to day, Kemper are mentioned. "Take 3-4% of the revenue"
Approx 3 years ago I played Elgin which is very close by. Great course, with a vastly higher quality profile than Spey Bay, and the £20 twilight fee is one the best bargains I've had.
£20 does not pay for maintenance let alone enhancing this, adding improvements to/redesigning the course, new lodges and a return on capital. Currently Spey Bay has a very low public profile. I haven't played it but, to reference a current thread, it's selling points are 'subtle'. They are promising their 'community' an experience where you will feel special.
It will take some special changes to allow for a new high end green fee model in that part of the world.
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I just listened to some of the podcast and couple of things that I took out of it. There was a substantial number of bids at closing date, some of which were quite readily turned down, leaving six offers for consideration of which the Links bid was one. It wasn't clear whether they were the preferred bidder but I would guess not judging by some of their comments.
The other thing I found interesting was that they spoke to 8 different architects about what to do with the course, one of whom was already retained by another bidder. Maybe that's the norm but 8 seems excessive. How much time are they likely to give it knowing that the potential client is speaking 7 others ?
Niall
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I never got there in time I was still doing my research and it was already gone.
£750,000 was very cheap though clearly its gone for more. I have never heard of these people though I thought their ideas were generally pretty good.
I don't think Spey Bay has an irrigation system so you can add a maybe half a million on, I concur that it would not take much to take this to quite a high level. As the podcast stated they have three levels of plan. Elevation of some tees and some movement of greens to get more visibility of the sea could make it spectacular.
I kept juggling with the £££££ and weighing up the headaches with the remoteness of the project. For me it was not so bad as we have Bristol-Inverness flights a few times a week and the airport is 45 minutes from the course.
Make no mistake remoteness does not work for UK people, we don't travel well like the Americans do and very few people in a golf membership >less than 1% drive an hour to play as their main course, it has to be really special for that.... draw your hour circle and there are other greats within. Lodging and cottages are the way to get some payback though it is not an easy one, I am not 100% convinced its an easy American market for them staying Dornoch is still two hours away by car.
Inverness Airport is fairly close but there are no direct USA flights as far as I am aware I expect the same is true with Aberdeen so Glasgow/Edinburgh is kinda 4 hours away.
As it stands there are not many playing the course. The shingle gave me a headache as I am not familiar, fairways get about two cuts per year apparently, but that will be because growth is very slow, top soil depth is just over an inch.
I wish the new people luck with the project and hope they can make the place very special.
BTW I had about 200 shares sold several interested from here (I was having 100 myself) when I heard bids were going over 750.
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I’m a big fan of Spey Bay. It definitely deserves to be better known and, with some sympathetic tweaks, it could be even better. I’d love to think that the right buyer at the right price could achieve that and make a decent business of it.
However, I do struggle with the idea that it could be turned into a place that could compete to attract many more travelling golfers at significantly higher green fees. Something that hasn’t been mentioned, on top of its remoteness, is that it’s right next to a landfill site. On the day I played, the smell was certainly noticeable and there was a fair amount of rubbish blowing around. I’d played £20, so was annoyed by the environmental impact more than any sense I’d been ripped off. I’d probably felt differently if I’d paid £100.
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The shingle gave me a headache as I am not familiar, fairways get about two cuts per year apparently, but that will be because growth is very slow, top soil depth is just over an inch.
Adrian
Interesting you say that. Listening to the podcast they seemed to be of the view that it would be as easy as moving sand about in a sand box but I tend to think they will at least have to put it through some sort of sieve. They were also talking about it not taking much to significantly improve the course. I suppose if you throw the same amount of money at it as you would a typical US country club course you might be right but I very much doubt you'll get the payback. More to the point though, the real beauty of Spey Bay is it's rustic charm and remote location. Trying to transform it into something more pristine would just spoil what's there without necessarily replacing it with something that's any better.
Niall
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However, I do struggle with the idea that it could be turned into a place that could compete to attract many more travelling golfers at significantly higher green fees. Something that hasn’t been mentioned, on top of its remoteness, is that it’s right next to a landfill site. On the day I played, the smell was certainly noticeable and there was a fair amount of rubbish blowing around. I’d played £20, so was annoyed by the environmental impact more than any sense I’d been ripped off. I’d probably felt differently if I’d paid £100.
...call me the cynic but I was wondering why it was being sold with such a short deadline? Not much smell of it in February...
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Tony
I think you're being overly cynical. The landfill site has been there for decades and I've played during the summer without being turned off by any smells. Wind blown rubbish will be more of a problem, particularly if they are looking to charge premium rates.
Niall
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I never got there in time I was still doing my research and it was already gone.
A shame. I’d like to have something arise.
Atb
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The latest LinksDAO Community conference call was posted on youtube yesterday. There was a brief discussion of Spey Bay from roughly 10:45 to 12:10. They claim their offer is one of the ones being considered and they should know more in 2 to 3 weeks. The rest of the call was devoted to a plan to add a large number of new members.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rVALptPyy0&t=1277s
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The other thing I found interesting was that they spoke to 8 different architects about what to do with the course, one of whom was already retained by another bidder. Maybe that's the norm but 8 seems excessive. How much time are they likely to give it knowing that the potential client is speaking 7 others ?
"Spoke to" is extremely vague . . . they emailed me about setting up a call, and they are probably counting that. They also messaged me here, as someone from the company is a member of the Discussion Group, which I didn't know.
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Inverness Airport is fairly close but there are no direct USA flights as far as I am aware I expect the same is true with Aberdeen
That's correct, but for US visitors either Inverness or Aberdeen are easy, and not very expensive, connections from London. I've flown to both from LHR without any problems
Inverness has flights to/from London (LHR, Gat, Lut), other cities in England as well as Edi, Belfast and Amsterdam
Aberdeen is significantly bigger, serving London and other UK locations, Spain, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Poland and Switzerland
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Inverness Airport is fairly close but there are no direct USA flights as far as I am aware I expect the same is true with Aberdeen
That's correct, but for US visitors either Inverness or Aberdeen are easy, and not very expensive, connections from London. I've flown to both from LHR without any problems
Inverness has flights to/from London (LHR, Gat, Lut), other cities in England as well as Edi, Belfast and Amsterdam
Aberdeen is significantly bigger, serving London and other UK locations, Spain, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Poland and Switzerland
True. I will be flying from Newark to LHR to Inverness in three weeks. I do it twice a year and it is not a problem at all. Much easier than flying to Edinburgh and then driving up there. The 2.5 hour layover in London is a good refresher.
Before BA returned to Inverness a few years ago, I flew to Aberdeen. Again, an easier drive than from Edinburgh or Glasgow.
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Brand new LinksDAO podcast, "We are buying a golf course"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YskYVOGQNV0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YskYVOGQNV0)
Their offer to buy the course has been accepted, Due diligence to follow.
By the way, does anyone know the principals of LinksDAO or even know anyone who is a member?
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I'm all for the purchase of golf courses to save a unique property or keep the industry going. Spey Bay looks neat, would be fun to check it out someday, especially if it becomes even more awesome.
I cannot for the life of me figure out what makes an NFT membership unique. Yes, I am generally familiar with what an NFT is and why it could be useful, but if everyone agrees per a club's rules that you paid for/qualified/achieved a membership (much like private clubs since the beginning of time), then why an NFT membership? Because it's cool?
I remember Greg Norman's son being on EAL's podcast talking about this concept, and he came across as the bro-iest of finance bros when his explanation for everything seemed to be "because crypto," or "because its an NFT." EAL can be out there, but even he seemed confused.
And, if you joined this club from say, the east coast of the US, with the promise of joining the first awesome club purchased....and now it's in NE Scotland! I'll take any excuse to go across the pond, but I would be confused that my first opp to play/join a club for my membership was 10h by plane away. I see that they have Outpost Club-like options to play domestically at off times, and a reciprocal network, etc...but this whole thing has me scratching my head.
Will someone educate me?
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No need to listen to the podcast, just read this. :)
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/links-golf-club-buys-spey-bay-golf-links?utm_medium=email&utm_source=031623&utm_campaign=hitlist&utm_content=DM37576&uuid=9861c6da148243648f1aa92679fb32a0
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From the local press (and journal):
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/moray/5515579/spey-bay-golf-course-to-be-sold-to-online-golfing-community-group-links-golf-club/
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Well, mea culpa on the dismay of having the first course in Scotland, as apparently 88% of members voted in favor of the attempt to purchase.
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Another LinksDAO conference call:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADHLBr_SX1c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADHLBr_SX1c)
Does anyone know if Kemper Sports currently manages any golf facilities in the UK?
Brad T. -
I share plenty of your wonder how an organization like this functions. Who controls the money? Who signs the checks? Who decides what golf architect to hire?
It will be very interesting to see how the Spey Bay project develops over the next couple of years. I wonder if LinksDAO really understands what they have gotten themselves into. :)
DT
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Another LinksDAO conference call:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADHLBr_SX1c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADHLBr_SX1c)
Does anyone know if Kemper Sports currently manages any golf facilities in the UK?
Brad T. -
I share plenty of your wonder how an organization like this functions. Who controls the money? Who signs the checks? Who decides what golf architect to hire?
It will be very interesting to see how the Spey Bay project develops over the next couple of years. I wonder if LinksDAO really understands what they have gotten themselves into. :)
DT
I agree David. My main concern was that the turnover at SB is almost nothing, probably enough for two low wages and a bit fuel. How many of their 9090 members will fly over to play their course and when, it will take several hundred thousand dollars to get this into decent shape, so their will be a fair money burn to get to that point, but I figure they know that much and do understand the costs from A to B to C and D.
One thing for sure in that area there is plenty of quality choice. Membership fees at some of these clubs are still triple figures for annual subscription. When I was doing my sums i just kept thinking am i just falling in love with a bad girl.
A few things don't ring true, they rang 8 golf archies and only the top ones and agronomists too. No golf architect can really price that job without going to look and why 8, shingle is unusual and certainly a puzzle for me although I have worked on a wonderful soil that was heavily contaminated with flint shingle and it was a nightmare for me.
Will be watching this too as it is a very interesting project and hats off to them, lovely piece of land if you can get more sea views and the course better known.
I had a slightly different plan in mind to make it work but it was still not a given.
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Interesting/exciting news:
https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/links-golf-club-selects-clayton-devries-pont-to-renovate-spey-bay (https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/links-golf-club-selects-clayton-devries-pont-to-renovate-spey-bay)
Comments, Clayts???
F.
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Just looked at Links website - if there was a GCA version of Links if the financial/crypto side was worked out it could be feasible and would generate money to have a GCA owned course. I would be interested being a member then.
Links are million miles ahead and not surprised they have generated this amount of money and the perks that they have is an additional bonus with discounts from well know and upcoming manufacturers - whoever has set this up has done very well.
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The plan seems to be for a “multiple-option reversible course”. I’m not sure exactly what that is but it’ll be interesting to find out.
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The plan seems to be for a “multiple-option reversible course”. I’m not sure exactly what that is but it’ll be interesting to find out.
What? I thought a reversible course could be in the works.
Ciao
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The plan seems to be for a “multiple-option reversible course”. I’m not sure exactly what that is but it’ll be interesting to find out.
What? I thought a reversible course could be in the works.
Ciao
James is right a multiple option reversible course.
OCM are doing a 18 hole course with three different options (21 greens) for Long Island Club nr Melbourne. so there is now an approach of making the course multi dimensional to create more variety and interest.
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I really enjoyed my time at Spey Bay and looked forward to returning,unfortunately, economics made the course/operation I played unsustainable.
I had hoped a smaller scale entity would acquire the course, and make minor upgrades over time, to maintain the simple no frills feel of the place.
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32-minute discussion on youtube of Links Golf Club's hiring of CDP to work on Spey Bay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfgXFzdMDLE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfgXFzdMDLE)
The discussion takes 3-4 minutes to get rolling. Frank Pont starts speaking about 13 minutes in. The design plans will feature multiple ways to play the property.