Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: David_Tepper on November 28, 2022, 09:06:01 AM
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This topic gets discussed here every once in a while:
https://www.linksmagazine.com/10-great-18-hole-courses-on-fewer-than-100-acres?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=insider11.28.22
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It's far from being great, but the Bangalore Golf Club in India, which claims to be the oldest surviving course (not club) outside the UK -- it dates from 1876 -- has eighteen holes on sixty acres. Considering it is full dawn till dusk, and so far as I could see, every player takes a caddy, it is, unsurprisingly, a bit bonkers.
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It's far from being great, but the Bangalore Golf Club in India, which claims to be the oldest surviving course (not club) outside the UK -- it dates from 1876 -- has eighteen holes on sixty acres. Considering it is full dawn till dusk, and so far as I could see, every player takes a caddy, it is, unsurprisingly, a bit bonkers.
Are there crossovers?
I didn't get to Bangalore on my India and Sri Lanka trip, but I saw several other courses that used crossovers very effectively in the routings. It's a great way to make more use of a particular feature in a tight corner.
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Adam,
I was pretty skeptical of that number, but the measurement tool on Google Earth confirms the 60, (I came up with 57). That's borderline shocking.
https://earth.google.com/web/search/Bangalore+Golf+Club,+Sankey+Road,+High+Grounds,+Sampangiram+Nagar,+Bengaluru,+Karnataka,+India/@12.98940675,77.58465117,926.57269387a,1476.56345548d,35y,0.00377762h,0t,0r/data=CigiJgokCQ1zaizkLUVAESUstoIkLUVAGSmO5GnVIVjAIdpioOJpIljA
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A related subject would be does a course really need 100 acres?
Rollback the game, there’s 8 billion people on the planet these days.
Atb
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;)
LOOKS LIKE COUPLE OF ACRES OF NETTING ALONG THAT ONE FENCELINE...
ps... so I guess there's hope I can fit 3-4 holes on my 10 acres in Blue Lake Twp... ;D
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This is very insightful, I thought Merion was like 115 or so acres. I had no idea that the Valley Club was under 100 and only adds to our affection for the place. 200 acres seems like a luxury unless the course is remote.
Out of curiosity what courses have the most acreage? Have to be large developments I would guess. 3-400 acres. Maybe a Rock Creek Cattle or similar?
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Cherokee Country Club, a pretty decent and interesting Ross course in Knoxville, Tn, measures from 84 to 96 acres depending on whether you count the practice range, putting green, pro shop and parking or not.
-Keith
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Strandhill = 90 acres.
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Just measured Pacific Grove in Monterey and in comes in at just under 90 at 89.
Front 9 = 40, including the 2 streets you cross for a total of 4 times.
Back 9 = 49, and that includes the range.
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Kilspindie seems to sit on a very small plot. Not sure of exact acreage.
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It's far from being great, but the Bangalore Golf Club in India, which claims to be the oldest surviving course (not club) outside the UK -- it dates from 1876 -- has eighteen holes on sixty acres. Considering it is full dawn till dusk, and so far as I could see, every player takes a caddy, it is, unsurprisingly, a bit bonkers.
Are there crossovers?
I didn't get to Bangalore on my India and Sri Lanka trip, but I saw several other courses that used crossovers very effectively in the routings. It's a great way to make more use of a particular feature in a tight corner.
I don't recall crossovers (it's about fifteen years since I was there) but I do recall a number of places where multiple holes essentially share one corridor.
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Even Lincoln Park, which is a very short track, is still 80 acres.
And this doesn't include the streets or the area for the Legion of Honor.
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According to Ran’s write up, Kilspindie is 70 acres.
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According to Ran’s write up, Kilspindie is 70 acres.
There are two courses here, then, yes? ~200 acres for the both.
https://earth.google.com/web/search/Kilspindie+Golf+Club,+Aberlady,+Longniddry,+UK/@56.01045071,-2.87587843,7.5514117a,2440.87433741d,35y,-41.31827169h,0t,360r/data=CigiJgokCXF9HM8Q_ilAEYZl4CcW9ylAGRW_Ebs3ZlNAISwDSiGeZFNA (https://earth.google.com/web/search/Kilspindie+Golf+Club,+Aberlady,+Longniddry,+UK/@56.01045071,-2.87587843,7.5514117a,2440.87433741d,35y,-41.31827169h,0t,360r/data=CigiJgokCXF9HM8Q_ilAEYZl4CcW9ylAGRW_Ebs3ZlNAISwDSiGeZFNA)
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It's far from being great, but the Bangalore Golf Club in India, which claims to be the oldest surviving course (not club) outside the UK -- it dates from 1876 -- has eighteen holes on sixty acres. Considering it is full dawn till dusk, and so far as I could see, every player takes a caddy, it is, unsurprisingly, a bit bonkers.
I can vouch for that! A few years now since I played there, but great memories! Very tight and you needed the caddy to point you to the correct green and ensure you could get around safely. You enjoy a long lunch at the turn. They were doing some building work when I visited but teeing off after lunch was Merion-like, your tee shot on 10 is under the full gaze of the lunch crowd. Many criss-cross holes and quirk in abundance (one hole did not permit anything more than a 4-iron off the tee iirc) but certainly an enjoyable game. Bonkers, like Bangalore in general - it's a fantastic place!
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Edgbaston - a 18 hole Colt Course - 92 acres. Its amazing how spacious you feel on that course even though the holes are cramped in from aerial images. Boony has also played it as well and I am sure Sean has.
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According to Ran’s write up, Kilspindie is 70 acres.
There are two courses here, then, yes? ~200 acres for the both.
https://earth.google.com/web/search/Kilspindie+Golf+Club,+Aberlady,+Longniddry,+UK/@56.01045071,-2.87587843,7.5514117a,2440.87433741d,35y,-41.31827169h,0t,360r/data=CigiJgokCXF9HM8Q_ilAEYZl4CcW9ylAGRW_Ebs3ZlNAISwDSiGeZFNA (https://earth.google.com/web/search/Kilspindie+Golf+Club,+Aberlady,+Longniddry,+UK/@56.01045071,-2.87587843,7.5514117a,2440.87433741d,35y,-41.31827169h,0t,360r/data=CigiJgokCXF9HM8Q_ilAEYZl4CcW9ylAGRW_Ebs3ZlNAISwDSiGeZFNA)
Yes, the other course is Craigielaw which is a 21st Century addition. Kilspindie is hard to beat for compressed fun or laid back feel.
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According to Ran’s write up, Kilspindie is 70 acres.
That looks right, I came up with 68, including the parking lot and clubhouse! :o
Ps. If I figured the routing right, there's a little cluster of greens and tees that line up north to south, all in a total area of just under 2 acres
3 green
4 tee
5 green
6 tee
12 green
13 tee
14 green
15 tee
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According to Ran’s write up, Kilspindie is 70 acres.
That looks right, I came up with 68, including the parking lot and clubhouse! :o
Ps. If I figured the routing right, there's a little cluster of greens and tees that line up north to south, all in a total area of just under 2 acres
3 green
4 tee
5 green
6 tee
12 green
13 tee
14 green
15 tee
You got the routing right. The stone fence is tricky from an aerial view. Also tricky when playing.
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According to Ran’s write up, Kilspindie is 70 acres.
That looks right, I came up with 68, including the parking lot and clubhouse! :o
Ps. If I figured the routing right, there's a little cluster of greens and tees that line up north to south, all in a total area of just under 2 acres
3 green
4 tee
5 green
6 tee
12 green
13 tee
14 green
15 tee
You got the routing right. The stone fence is tricky from an aerial view. Also tricky when playing.
One of the fascinating aspects to boot is there looks to be a couple of underutilized areas near 7,8,9 and 15,16,17 that resulted in approx. 5 acres of "dead space". I guess when they host a tourney, they need space for stands! ;D
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Out of curiosity what courses have the most acreage? Have to be large developments I would guess. 3-400 acres. Maybe a Rock Creek Cattle or similar?
Jeff,
So I took a stab at this, and given the size of RCCC this is just a rough ballpark figure.
If you include the course and everything on its interior like the range, clubhouse, cabins, open areas, etc., its about 450 acres
The hole corridors themselves cover approx 180 acres.
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This is very insightful, I thought Merion was like 115 or so acres. I had no idea that the Valley Club was under 100 and only adds to our affection for the place. 200 acres seems like a luxury unless the course is remote.
Out of curiosity what courses have the most acreage? Have to be large developments I would guess. 3-400 acres. Maybe a Rock Creek Cattle or similar?
Landmand is 580 acres.
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This is very insightful, I thought Merion was like 115 or so acres. I had no idea that the Valley Club was under 100 and only adds to our affection for the place. 200 acres seems like a luxury unless the course is remote.
Out of curiosity what courses have the most acreage? Have to be large developments I would guess. 3-400 acres. Maybe a Rock Creek Cattle or similar?
Landmand is 580 acres.
Wow ..... that is a lot of land. Any others that are in this range?
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This is very insightful, I thought Merion was like 115 or so acres. I had no idea that the Valley Club was under 100 and only adds to our affection for the place. 200 acres seems like a luxury unless the course is remote.
Out of curiosity what courses have the most acreage? Have to be large developments I would guess. 3-400 acres. Maybe a Rock Creek Cattle or similar?
Landmand is 580 acres.
Wow ..... that is a lot of land. Any others that are in this range?
The total property at Landmand is 580 acres. The course occupies less than 200 acres.
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Isn't Wannamoisett something like 98 acres?
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Can anyone measure Cleeve Hill. It feels massive.
Ciao
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Phoenix Country Club is 99 acres. You can feel it too when playing, it always seems like you have balls flying all around you. My least favorite parkland design in the Phoenix area. It just got approved for a renovation though, Andy Staples will come in and put his touch on it so that should be exciting.
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Can anyone measure Cleeve Hill. It feels massive.
Ciao
Hey Sean,
I took a stab at it, (as a side note it clearly lands in my top 5 of "most difficult courses to figure out the routing" category) ;D
It looks like:
- The property sits on roughly 230 acres. (Just a basic guess, near impossible to tell where the property boundaries are)
- The course corridors occupying about 160 of that.
P.S. Is 13 green set in between a couple of old moats? Trippy if so.
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Home club Springdale GC in Princeton NJ is on a compact piece of land. It has become clear that a narrow gauge railway that existed in 1900 was perceived as a barrier and hemmed in the footprint despite ample land on the other side.
Did a quick calculation on Google Eagle and it rounds up to 108 acres. Likely that the footprint of the actual course not including range, clubhouse and parking is no more than 110 acres.
I like to point out that Hugh Wilson played his college golf at Springdale while at Princeton and joined our greens committee when Willie Dunn, Jr. did the lay out when we moved the course to it's current site. Wm Flynn did a re-design in 1926. Perhaps there is a similarity to Merion in the small footprint, although I hesitate to use that comparison.
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Can anyone measure Cleeve Hill. It feels massive.
Ciao
Hey Sean,
I took a stab at it, (as a side note it clearly lands in my top 5 of "most difficult courses to figure out the routing" category) ;D
It looks like:
- The property sits on roughly 230 acres. (Just a basic guess, near impossible to tell where the property boundaries are)
- The course corridors occupying about 160 of that.
P.S. Is 13 green set in between a couple of old moats? Trippy if so.
Thanks. I think you are right in trying to figure out the size of the course because so much unused land sits between holes....count it or not? The site feels immense when there. The 13th green sits in an Iron Age fort.
Ciao
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Rolling Road GC, Catonsville MD, 1919 Willie Park Jr, 100 acres 6174 yard par 70.
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Three courses I’ve played recently - Formby Ladies is c.86 acres; Fortrose & Rosemarkie c.83 acres; Stonehaven c.71 acres (and that includes the railway line!).
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Curious about Rye? Can seem very crowded on a foursomes day.
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Curious about Rye? Can seem very crowded on a foursomes day.
Tony,
Assuming you're talking about Rye in England, AND if I figured the routing correctly, I came up with just over 100 acres, including the clubhouse and car park. (It looks like they have 13 additional holes on the southern part of the property, which I didn't include in this figure)
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Wannamoisett is 104 acres, just a tad over but has to be the best small course I've been lucky enough to see.
On the other end, Yale feels massive.
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Curious about Rye? Can seem very crowded on a foursomes day.
Tony,
Assuming you're talking about Rye in England, AND if I figured the routing correctly, I came up with just over 100 acres, including the clubhouse and car park. (It looks like they have 13 additional holes on the southern part of the property, which I didn't include in this figure)
Well done Kalen. Thanks. Yes the other !3 are the Jubilee.
The wild bits of the ridges are unplayable, plus the lake makes it tight.
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I played Memphis CC this year and the caddie told me that the course is 98 acres.
I am pretty sure New Orleans CC and Metairie are <100 also...
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Marine Drive GC in Vancouver is on 87 acres. A AV Macan design with resent work byJim Urbina. Maybe the easiest walk in golf.
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This topic gets discussed here every once in a while:
https://www.linksmagazine.com/10-great-18-hole-courses-on-fewer-than-100-acres?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=insider11.28.22 (https://www.linksmagazine.com/10-great-18-hole-courses-on-fewer-than-100-acres?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=insider11.28.22)
David,
I played Bangalore GC in 1994. As an unaccompanied guest I was required to employ a caddie AND a forecaddie.
The club logo is a crow with a golf ball in its beak. The forecaddie runs to you ball and guards it until you arrive. On one of my drives the forecaddie was late and a crow scooped up the ball and flew it back to its nearby nest.
As I recall the caddie fee was approximately $1.00.
J
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Marine Drive GC in Vancouver is on 87 acres. A AV Macan design with resent work byJim Urbina. Maybe the easiest walk in golf.
Aside from all of those trees that are in the way, Sandy ;D
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Caledonia (the Mike Strantz course) has to be close to this number in terms of the actual golf acreage, although I don't know if it's under 100. I think the whole property is only about 130 acres and some of that is the clubhouse and a large pond.
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Caledonia (the Mike Strantz course) has to be close to this number in terms of the actual golf acreage, although I don't know if it's under 100. I think the whole property is only about 130 acres and some of that is the clubhouse and a large pond.
Seems to be about 135 acres.
(https://p197.p4.n0.cdn.getcloudapp.com/items/12uRgPwL/d2d8512c-3526-4fbb-b905-e58fef21f65b.jpg?v=81dfaa20235269378e48011bcbbed823)
https://share.getcloudapp.com/12uRgPwL
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Right, I said the whole site was roughly 130 acres.
Upthread some people were breaking it down by the acreage actually used by golf holes, which is less than the whole site considering the water throughout the middle of the property and the clubhouse/parking area.
I think the course itself is still over 100 acres, but probably not by too much.
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Right, I said the whole site was roughly 130 acres.
Upthread some people were breaking it down by the acreage actually used by golf holes, which is less than the whole site considering the water throughout the middle of the property and the clubhouse/parking area.
I think the course itself is still over 100 acres, but probably not by too much.
I know. I'm giving some answers. The site is nearly 140 acres (138 acres in the photo, and that's cutting off a bit near the streets). It's not all that close to 100 acres as the clubhouse and parking lot are not 40 or even 30 acres. And… water counts; it's in play.
I love Caledonia, and it's a small site, but it's not all that close to < 100 acres.
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I think the Everglades Club is well under 100 acres.
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Rolling Road GC, Catonsville MD, 1919 Willie Park Jr, 100 acres 6174 yard par 70.
Yes! (and I think it is well under 100 acres).
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The NLE Metacomet in East Providence, RI sat on 105 acres. A terrific routing and set of holes.
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Anything in Pinehurst fit the bill?
My guess is Mid Pines and Southern Pines are close, but probably more like 110 acres.
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Anything in Pinehurst fit the bill?
My guess is Mid Pines and Southern Pines are close, but probably more like 110 acres.
Southern Pines is about 128. https://share.getcloudapp.com/5zu2LLmQ Mid Pines is about 124. https://share.getcloudapp.com/ApueJJnY
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I'm not smart enough to figure out Google Earth but can somebody check on Lexington Country Club in Lexington, KY? It has always struck me as being a very small piece of land set in the heart of Horse Country.
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I'm not smart enough to figure out Google Earth but can somebody check on Lexington Country Club in Lexington, KY? It has always struck me as being a very small piece of land set in the heart of Horse Country.
https://share.getcloudapp.com/o0u9Rw8v - Looks like about 132 acres. If I drew the lines in the right places. I cut off the clubhouse, etc.
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I think the Everglades Club is well under 100 acres.
Good call Mike,
I get 82 acres and this includes the club house, maintenance area & parking, and all the big ponds internal to the course.
Factoring those out its less than 70 acres of actual golf course...
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Rolling Road GC, Catonsville MD, 1919 Willie Park Jr, 100 acres 6174 yard par 70.
Yes! (and I think it is well under 100 acres).
Another good pick.
89 acres total, (about 83 if you subtract the clubhouse, pool, parking, etc.)
P.S. Of all the courses I've seen so far, this one looks to have the most amount of room in between holes, for such a small footprint.
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I'm not smart enough to figure out Google Earth but can somebody check on Lexington Country Club in Lexington, KY? It has always struck me as being a very small piece of land set in the heart of Horse Country.
https://share.getcloudapp.com/o0u9Rw8v (https://share.getcloudapp.com/o0u9Rw8v) - Looks like about 132 acres. If I drew the lines in the right places. I cut off the clubhouse, etc.
Many thanks, Eric.