Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Thomas Dai on November 01, 2022, 09:09:06 AM
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The deciduous leaves are falling in the Northern Hemisphere.
Ever done an approximate calculation of how many leaves fall on your golf course?
Try number of acres covered by deciduous trees X number of deciduous trees per acre X number of leaves per deciduous tree - should give an approximate figure, probably a big number too (calculation norms available on the web although vary by location/usual tree type).
And someone likely has to pick them all up, cart them off and dump them!
One of the joys of inland Autumn golf.
atb
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmiWOM2XIAEoC-s?format=jpg&name=medium)
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Are leaves counted as Carbon Capture? After raking my lawn this weekend I was reminded how heavy they are.
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Are leaves counted as Carbon Capture? After raking my lawn this weekend I was reminded how heavy they are.
I broke a rake making a leafpile for the neighborhood kids.
I always chop them up afterwards, good compost for the lawn.
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Hard and time consuming work clearing leaves from a lawn or a backyard especially if the leaves have made their way into ditches etc.
Big task on a course even with the help of ride-on machines. Costly too when you add up the related costs of machinery, labour, fuel etc etc.
Cheaper in the long run to cut some of the more leaf prone trees down?
Or better still not plant them in the first place and/or not let any self-seeders grow more than couple of inches high before they are cropped-off by a routinely passing mower (or eaten by a grazing animal)?
Atb
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"Why experts say you shouldn't bag your leaves"
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/25/1131114849/leaves-fall-autumn-compost-mulch-grass-lawn-nutrients?utm_source=pocket-newtab
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Are leaves counted as Carbon Capture? After raking my lawn this weekend I was reminded how heavy they are.
I broke a rake making a leafpile for the neighborhood kids.
I always chop them up afterwards, good compost for the lawn.
That's a bit harsh on the kids, is it not !
Niall
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Are leaves counted as Carbon Capture? After raking my lawn this weekend I was reminded how heavy they are.
I broke a rake making a leafpile for the neighborhood kids.
I always chop them up afterwards, good compost for the lawn.
That's a bit harsh on the kids, is it not !
Niall
Niall,
I had read that the same and had a good chuckle. Given the world is up to 8 billion now, a few less kids won't hurt nothing right? ;D
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Some of you will cringe,ButMy senior group has "Leaf Rule"A ball lost IN THE FAIRWAY because of leavesmay be replaced with no penalty at the approximate spot where it was lost.
It speeds up play and keeps us all happy.
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Kalen
I'm just glad someone appreciates my sense of humour.
Niall
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Kalen
I'm just glad someone appreciates my sense of humour.
Niall
You know, I'm pretty good at intentionally making dumb dad jokes. But that's the best accidental one I ever made!
I want to be clear that I only chop up my own kids, my neighbors have to chop up their kids themselves.
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Kalen
I'm just glad someone appreciates my sense of humour.
Niall
You know, I'm pretty good at intentionally making dumb dad jokes. But that's the best accidental one I ever made!
I want to be clear that I only chop up my own kids, my neighbors have to chop up their kids themselves.
Do your neighbours have to?
Ciao
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Sean, who am I to parent other people's kids for them? I've got enough on my hands. Plus my lawnmower is an old self-propelled walk behind. Maybe if I had a rider I would be able to chop up more children, but I don't have the budget for an upgrade.
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Some of you will cringe,ButMy senior group has "Leaf Rule"A ball lost IN THE FAIRWAY because of leavesmay be replaced with no penalty at the approximate spot where it was lost.
It speeds up play and keeps us all happy.
Several years ago I was playing in the final of our County Interclub Foursomes and our opponents drive went under some trees between 2 fairways, generally cut to semi rough height, so we all expected them to find it. 5 minutes of kicking leaves later and the ball had to be declared lost. It felt a very strange way to win a hole, made all the stranger by the fact that there werent many other leaves on the course, just under this one bunch of trees (I dont recall the species). I suspect a few days later the wind will have blown the leaves away and someone will have wondered why there was a nice new ProV1 sitting under the trees?
As per David's article, when I had a larger garden I always preferred leaving the leaves were they were and letting nature take its course, rather than the modern obsession with tidying up nature. And dont get me started on leaf blowers!
However at Hollinwell (Notts GC) we have plenty of broad leaf trees that drop their leaves into the heather beds which the heather really doesnt like, but its certainly not easy to clear leaves from within the heather. As the broad leaf trees in question arent natural to the heathland we are going through the process of removing some of them, but you can really see the heather beds near these trees suffering in comparison to the ones out in the open.
Cheers,
James
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Sean, who am I to parent other people's kids for them? I've got enough on my hands. Plus my lawnmower is an old self-propelled walk behind. Maybe if I had a rider I would be able to chop up more children, but I don't have the budget for an upgrade.
If you insist...Remind me, where do you live? 😎
Ciao
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If you insist...Remind me, where do you live? 😎
Ciao
I live in Grand Rapids Michigan. Just look for the house with the blood-stained front yard and vultures circling overhead. Believe me, you can't miss it.
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Are leaves counted as Carbon Capture? After raking my lawn this weekend I was reminded how heavy they are.
I broke a rake making a leafpile for the neighborhood kids.
I always chop them up afterwards, good compost for the lawn.
Good. It's only carbon capture if the leaves stay underground. Otherwise, they release CO2 as they decompose. Of course, if the tree produces new leaves next year, in doing so it takes up the CO2 that last year's leaves released when they decomposed.
And, as David Tepper's link states, the decomposing leaves can give off methane if they decompose anaerobically, which is worse in the short term (better in the very long term) for climate change.
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"Why experts say you shouldn't bag your leaves"
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/25/1131114849/leaves-fall-autumn-compost-mulch-grass-lawn-nutrients?utm_source=pocket-newtab (https://www.npr.org/2022/10/25/1131114849/leaves-fall-autumn-compost-mulch-grass-lawn-nutrients?utm_source=pocket-newtab)
I think the article has a very poor title? If they mean don't collect leaves and send them to landfill, that's what it needs to say.
It is common practice in the UK to use bags to make leaf mulch where you don't have a compost bin.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/basics/techniques/soil_makeleafmould1.shtml#:~:text=Saving%20leaves%20in%20bags,-Take%20a%20black&text=Rake%20up%20leaves%20weekly%20and,around%20the%20base%20of%20plants (https://www.bbc.co.uk/gardening/basics/techniques/soil_makeleafmould1.shtml#:~:text=Saving%20leaves%20in%20bags,-Take%20a%20black&text=Rake%20up%20leaves%20weekly%20and,around%20the%20base%20of%20plants).
Hate looking for balls in leaves. Yellow or Orange ones are most easily lost just at the time of year when they start to come into their own
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I love fall golf but hate dealing with leaves when looking for a ball in the rough. Why can't they just stay on the branches after they change color? It would make life easier for everyone. LOL!
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When we worked on the redesign of Medinah #1, we found out that they had planted so many trees that they couldn't deal with all the leaves. They would blow them off the fairways and over in between the holes, and there were so many leaves that it would completely smother any grass there and leave them with a lot of dirt between the holes.
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The group my dad plays with back home, a couple of them bought battery powered leaf blowers. They use it to find their balls in the fairway and rough, and then to clear the line on the green. It's kinda necessary when you play a course called Gibson Woods.
Some of you will cringe,ButMy senior group has "Leaf Rule"A ball lost IN THE FAIRWAY because of leavesmay be replaced with no penalty at the approximate spot where it was lost.
It speeds up play and keeps us all happy.
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I was tempted to by a leaf blower a couple weeks ago until I learned last Saturday that Sylvania CC, where I play, has four available you can throw in your cart and use as needed. I thought that was hilarious, as I've never played a course or been a member at a club that had leaf blowers available for the asking.
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If you insist...Remind me, where do you live?
Ciao
I live in Grand Rapids Michigan. Just look for the house with the blood-stained front yard and vultures circling overhead. Believe me, you can't miss it.
Other than the high murder rate, is GR an ok town?
Ciao
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Personal leaf blower …. “outside influence”?
Atb
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I just finished a round on a beautiful November day here "In the Swamps of Jersey". The change in time back to EST, the low sun angle, & falling leaves made locating well struck (and a few not-well-struck) shots difficult and leaves did deflect a putt or two; but who can complain when you're out playing golf in shorts in November above the Mason Dixon line.
It was a great walk about.
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I was tempted to by a leaf blower a couple weeks ago until I learned last Saturday that Sylvania CC, where I play, has four available you can throw in your cart and use as needed. I thought that was hilarious, as I've never played a course or been a member at a club that had leaf blowers available for the asking.
Crazy, I didn't know there was someone else on the site from the Sylvania, OH area.
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Crazy, I didn't know there was someone else on the site from the Sylvania, OH area.
Work in Ann Arbor, live in Ypsilanti and belong to Sylvania CC. If you reside in the Toledo area and are interested in playing, shoot me a private message. I'm always up for meeting/playing with new people.
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Other than the high murder rate, is GR an ok town?
Ciao
Well I confess that my family and I have only LIVED in Grand Rapids since June. My wife grew up here, and we've been visiting my in-laws every summer for the past 10 years and once every few years for Christmas. It wasn't until this year that we made the full move.
That said, Grand Rapids is quite a nice place to live both from a golf and life perspective. The winter is long for sure, but at least there is plenty of snow which is more fun than frozen dead ground. Summers are great, we're not far from Lake Michigan, there is a lot of good reasonably priced golf in the area (not to mention in Michigan as a whole), and there is plenty to do around town even though Grand Rapids is not that big. Grand Rapids has too many churches but makes up for it by having too many outstanding brew pubs.
FWIW here is the NLU's Grand Rapids episode from Tourist Sauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrrQNA5X00I
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Well I confess that my family and I have only LIVED in Grand Rapids since June. My wife grew up here, and we've been visiting my in-laws every summer for the past 10 years and once every few years for Christmas. It wasn't until this year that we made the full move.
That said, Grand Rapids is quite a nice place to live both from a golf and life perspective. The winter is long for sure, but at least there is plenty of snow which is more fun than frozen dead ground. Summers are great, we're not far from Lake Michigan, there is a lot of good reasonably priced golf in the area (not to mention in Michigan as a whole), and there is plenty to do around town even though Grand Rapids is not that big. Grand Rapids has too many churches but makes up for it by having too many outstanding brew pubs.
FWIW here is the NLU's Grand Rapids episode from Tourist Sauce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrrQNA5X00I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrrQNA5X00I)
Grand Rapids is a great city - especially after they revitalized the downtown area years ago. Lots of great art, theater, music, food and golf to be enjoyed. I've spent many a weekend there.
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Crazy, I didn't know there was someone else on the site from the Sylvania, OH area.
Work in Ann Arbor, live in Ypsilanti and belong to Sylvania CC. If you reside in the Toledo area and are interested in playing, shoot me a private message. I'm always up for meeting/playing with new people.
Thanks. I don't recall ever stepping foot inside GR city lines except to play hockey when I was a kid.
Mike, that's quite a ride from Ypsi, why do you belong to a Toledo club? I may be thinking of someone else, but I thought you were at Western and loving it?
Ciao
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Thanks. I don't recall ever stepping foot inside GR city lines except to play hockey when I was a kid.
Mike, that's quite a ride from Ypsi, why do you belong to a Toledo club? I may be thinking of someone else, but I thought you were at Western and loving it?
Ciao
A former ring rat you were, huh? I love it! My little bro played travel hockey for years out of Royal Oak and Fraser and I helped coach here and there a bit. Wish I had played when I was young.
I left Western after the clubhouse fire in 2018 and joined Washtenaw GC the following year, which was closer to home and still semi-private at the time. I had all the amenities I no longer enjoyed at Western (save a swimming facility) and the course was equally as good, if not better, so it was a no-brainer to switch. The year of COVID (2020) turned me off to Washtenaw, as the course had been sold, went 100% daily fee, got rid of all their lockers so they could use that space to install simulators and I could never get a tee time when I wanted, as they were constantly full. When you were able to get out the pace of play was so horrendously slow it wasn't enjoyable.
In the fall of that year I had the opportunity to play Sylvania and I immediately fell in the love with the place. Western still hadn't finished construction of its new Clubhouse nearly three years on and Sylvania reminded me of everything I loved about Western and more. The course is better, they had an historic old clubhouse like Western used to and drive time from my house was nearly the same (approx. 30 mintues). It's the best decision I've made and I enjoy all aspects of being a member there.
Funny, but when I went back and played Western last Oct. as a guest and finally got to check out the new clubhouse and facilities. I left underwhelmed. Don't get me wrong, the building is gorgeous, contemporaray and has all the bells and whistles the old clubhouse didn't, but it lacked the warmth, history and character the original clubhouse had. I missed that and knew then and there I made the right decision joining Sylvania.
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Thanks. I don't recall ever stepping foot inside GR city lines except to play hockey when I was a kid.
Mike, that's quite a ride from Ypsi, why do you belong to a Toledo club? I may be thinking of someone else, but I thought you were at Western and loving it?
Ciao
A former ring rat you were, huh? I love it! My little bro played travel hockey for years out of Royal Oak and Fraser and I helped coach here and there a bit. Wish I had played when I was young.
I left Western after the clubhouse fire in 2018 and joined Washtenaw GC the following year, which was closer to home and still semi-private at the time. I had all the amenities I no longer enjoyed at Western (save a swimming facility) and the course was equally as good, if not better, so it was a no-brainer to switch. The year of COVID (2020) turned me off to Washtenaw, as the course had been sold, went 100% daily fee, got rid of all their lockers so they could use that space to install simulators and I could never get a tee time when I wanted, as they were constantly full. When you were able to get out the pace of play was so horrendously slow it wasn't enjoyable.
In the fall of that year I had the opportunity to play Sylvania and I immediately fell in the love with the place. Western still hadn't finished construction of its new Clubhouse nearly three years on and Sylvania reminded me of everything I loved about Western and more. The course is better, they had an historic old clubhouse like Western used to and drive time from my house was nearly the same (approx. 30 mintues). It's the best decision I've made and I enjoy all aspects of being a member there.
Funny, but when I went back and played Western last Oct. as a guest and finally got to check out the new clubhouse and facilities. I left underwhelmed. Don't get me wrong, the building is gorgeous, contemporaray and has all the bells and whistles the old clubhouse didn't, but it lacked the warmth, history and character the original clubhouse had. I missed that and knew then and there I made the right decision joining Sylvania.
Mike
I haven't played Washtenaw in what must be 35 years. I don't really remember it. The Ann Arbor area is seriously bereft of good private clubs. Barton Hills is outstanding, but I imagine quite expensive. It has absolutely no competition as The club for miles around. I spent a few days in Ann Arbor in the late summer. Boy, it continues to change. Its losing much of its charm to be honest. But maybe that's the curmudgeon in me taking.
I don't know much about Sylvania. Is there much Park Jr remaining?
Ciao
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I haven't played Washtenaw in what must be 35 years. I don't really remember it. The Ann Arbor area is seriously bereft of good private clubs. Barton Hills is outstanding, but I imagine quite expensive. It has absolutely no competition as The club for miles around. I spent a few days in Ann Arbor in the late summer. Boy, it continues to change. Its losing much of its charm to be honest. But maybe that's the curmudgeon in me taking.
I don't know much about Sylvania. Is there much Park Jr remaining?
Ciao
Washtenaw is a great old course with incredible bones and a terrific set of greens. To the current owners credit, they hired Ray Hearn a little over a year ago who developed a new masterplan for the course and has made nice strides returning it back to its original intent - starting with tree removal. Provided the money's there and they're able to stick to the plan, it'll be solidly placed as the 4th best course in the area behind Barton, UM of and Radrick Farms when all is said and done.
To your point about the lack of great private clubs in Ann Arbor, you're spot on! If I could afford to be a member at Barton Hills I would in a heartbeat. The other two options are Travis Pointe and The Polo Fields of Ann Arbor - both Bill Newcomb courses. Nah, not having it. I grew up caddying on a Bill Newcomb course (Great Oaks CC, prior to my stint OHCC). The last thing I want is to be a member at one. LOL!
When push came to shove, Sylvania offered everything I left behind at Western and more. Thus, it made sense to join for the reasons previously mentioned. To your question as to how much Park Jr. is left; there's a lot! All the original greens remain save three - perhaps four. Most have shrunk considerably, but the pads are still there. The clubs done substantial tree removal the past three years and the course has never looked or played better. However, the heart of the Park layout (the rolling terrain) still remains. Like Washtenaw, we're looking at making changes to our course in an effort to restore it more to Park's original intent, so I'm excited for what the future holds.
If you're ever back in MI private message me and let's meet up for a round of golf somewhere. I'm bummed I missed the opportunity to play with you and Ally when you two were here, as that would have been a blast. But to your point about Ann Arbor having lost much of its character over the years, I concurr 100%!!
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I haven't played Washtenaw in what must be 35 years. I don't really remember it. The Ann Arbor area is seriously bereft of good private clubs. Barton Hills is outstanding, but I imagine quite expensive. It has absolutely no competition as The club for miles around. I spent a few days in Ann Arbor in the late summer. Boy, it continues to change. Its losing much of its charm to be honest. But maybe that's the curmudgeon in me taking.
I don't know much about Sylvania. Is there much Park Jr remaining?
Ciao
Washtenaw is a great old course with incredible bones and a terrific set of greens. To the current owners credit, they hired Ray Hearn a little over a year ago who developed a new masterplan for the course and has made nice strides returning it back to its original intent - starting with tree removal. Provided the money's there and they're able to stick to the plan, it'll be solidly placed as the 4th best course in the area behind Barton, UM of and Radrick Farms when all is said and done.
To your point about the lack of great private clubs in Ann Arbor, you're spot on! If I could afford to be a member at Barton Hills I would in a heartbeat. The other two options are Travis Pointe and The Polo Fields of Ann Arbor - both Bill Newcomb courses. Nah, not having it. I grew up caddying on a Bill Newcomb course (Great Oaks CC, prior to my stint OHCC). The last thing I want is to be a member at one. LOL!
When push came to shove, Sylvania offered everything I left behind at Western and more. Thus, it made sense to join for the reasons previously mentioned. To your question as to how much Park Jr. is left; there's a lot! All the original greens remain save three - perhaps four. Most have shrunk considerably, but the pads are still there. The clubs done substantial tree removal the past three years and the course has never looked or played better. However, the heart of the Park layout (the rolling terrain) still remains. Like Washtenaw, we're looking at making changes to our course in an effort to restore it more to Park's original intent, so I'm excited for what the future holds.
If you're ever back in MI private message me and let's meet up for a round of golf somewhere. I'm bummed I missed the opportunity to play with you and Ally when you two were here, as that would have been a blast. But to your point about Ann Arbor having lost much of its character over the years, I concurr 100%!!
I agree, Travis Pointe and Polo Fields are not courses I would want to commit to.
Good to hear about Sylvania. I have long been a fan of Park Jr's work. I dig front to back greens a hallmark of his courses.
Ally and Doc didn't make it to Ann Arbor. I was on my own for a few nights hangin out with old mates before playing Meadowbrook and shooting off to West Virginia. The city is becoming more plastic. Although, there are tons of places to buy weed. I don't know how they all stay in business.
Thanks for the invite 👍
Ciao
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The greens superintendent at my club plans on cutting down some big trees because of the leaf problem as he has nowhere to put them. The added factor is that amongst the 3 courses there are houses on more than half of the holes and they have no hesitancy in blowing their leaves onto the courses.
I play regularly with quite a large group and I brought up the idea of having a local rule within the group concerning balls lost in leaves. The Model Local Rules do include a leaf rule. It was interesting that there was no consensus to implement such a rule and the next day we went out to play and needless to say guys were taking more than 3 minutes to look for balls in the leaves and they were not happy when they had to apply the 2 shot penalty dropping a ball in the fairway.
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Ally and Doc didn't make it to Ann Arbor. I was on my own for a few nights hangin out with old mates before playing Meadowbrook and shooting off to West Virginia. The city is becoming more plastic. Although, there are tons of places to buy weed. I don't know how they all stay in business.
LMAO!!! Great observations on the transformation of Ann Arbor. You're spot-on about the pot shops. LOL! While my wife and I still enjoy spending time downtown, we're no longer eneared to it as we once were.
How did you enjoy playing Meadowbrook? I've not had an opportunity to play it since Andy Staples performed his magic there, though I've driven past it many times. Some of the greens look diabolical. I'd love the chance to get on as a guest of a member who knows the lay of the land and would reciprocate a round at Sylvania in exchange.
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Ally and Doc didn't make it to Ann Arbor. I was on my own for a few nights hangin out with old mates before playing Meadowbrook and shooting off to West Virginia. The city is becoming more plastic. Although, there are tons of places to buy weed. I don't know how they all stay in business.
LMAO!!! Great observations on the transformation of Ann Arbor. You're spot-on about the pot shops. LOL! While my wife and I still enjoy spending time downtown, we're no longer eneared to it as we once were.
How did you enjoy playing Meadowbrook? I've not had an opportunity to play it since Andy Staples performed his magic there, though I've driven past it many times. Some of the greens look diabolical. I'd love the chance to get on as a guest of a member who knows the lay of the land and would reciprocate a round at Sylvania in exchange.
Meadowbrook is terrific. Make the effort.
Ciao