Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Tommy Williamsen on October 09, 2022, 10:45:35 PM
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By that I mean alternate shot. I know some UK courses play it regularly. I have played it in a few club tournaments years ago but I never enjoyed it.
Do many of you play it?
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The only time I played it was at Muirfield after lunch - don't remember much about it - too much Kummel I think. Never play it here in the USA.
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Yes in UK and a few times in US with some friends. Usually first group out and play in 3 hours or less. I really enjoy the format after being introduced to it in the UK.
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Bar a couple of comps in the summer, my club tends to leave its foursomes for the winter where we have quite a few weekends dedicated to the format.
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Had the misfortune to once play foresomes as a last minute substitute, “please play, we’re one short”, with a semi-beginner as my partner and the only balls in my bag were balata Titleists. After the first hole ‘our’ ball looked like something a dog had been chewing on for weeks.
Atb
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Yes once at Muirfield and it was a scream! Played in 2 hours….
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Occasionally in a club tournament but never for regular play.
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In tournaments, but never more than 9 holes there, and most often with a Shamble start... both players tee off, pick the best go alternate from there, minimum 3 tee shots used by each team member
Team spirit/strategy phrases:
1) Sorry is not in our vocabulary...
2) I got that shot...
3) Do what you can do!
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Rarely but I have loved it when I have played it.
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I like foursomes, but no one I know ever wants to play it in the U.S. My friends object when I suggest it (very strenuously when we visit new courses) as they always want to play their own ball . The only times I've played it in the U.S. were for a segment of an annual Ryder Cup style event at my old club. I've played foursomes as a PM round at Muirfield. On a recent visit to Scotland we played Corbie Hill as a PM round following Cruden Bay in the morning. Everyone was a bit tired so we played foursomes on the back nine and it was a lot of fun, with the match going to the final hole. Next year I'm hoping visit Rye. I understand foursomes is a main format there and would look forward to playing it there.
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Consider this: At Royal Worlington (9-holes) they have the same number of members as any other "Royal" 18-hole course. They play the same amount of golf...i.e., they play the same number of 18-hole equivalents. How? Because they ONLY play foursomes. Each 9-hole 'round' is only, give or take, 1.25 hours (2.5 hours per '18-hole equivalent')
Imagine if we did that worldwide how much water, labor, etc,. could be saved.
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Conversation among Americans visiting Royal Worlington and the club secretary:
SEC "Greetings gentlemen, welcome to Royal Worlington...who are your teams today for your foursomes match?"
AMERICANS "Oh, we'll be playing stroke play..."
SEC "Really, then at what course will you be playing...?"
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Foursomes is hard. Couple of club events a year will have 9 holes as a shamble/alternate shot. In 40+ years of playing I've never heard of anyone playing it by choice as part of their normal rounds in the states.
I think a lot of the American aversion to foursomes is that people don't think they are getting their money's worth since they aren't playing all the shots themselves.
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I love foursomes as a format for golf, and as some lucky people here know, we have made it a feature of the Renaissance Cup for the last two or three matches. It eliminates the tendency in best-ball for one partner to dominate the team's result; the weaker player doesn't have to hit great shots, but he has to perform.
It's also a great format for getting a beginner out there; if they whiff or top a shot, they hand off to their partner, and don't get so frustrated.
And, as mentioned, it's a much faster round, especially because you only have to look for half as many balls.
Americans generally hate the format because they are too focused on posting a score of their own. Meanwhile there are a few clubs in the UK that are strictly "two-ball" clubs, as Forrest described of Royal Worlington & Newmarket . . . and nearly all of these are among my favorite places in the country to play. What a coincidence!
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I got married so I could play in a foursomes comp...the SD State Husband and Wife.
My wife and I have played in every foursomes conp we can find for more than 30 years.
Oddly, we've shot scores equal to or better than either of us could do on our own ball.
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It's also a great format for getting a beginner out there; if they whiff or top a shot, they hand off to their partner, and don't get so frustrated.
My 10 year old daughter is just showing an interest in the game and the two of us have gone out a few evenings and played alternate shot. We've been doing greensomes so both hit drives. As Tom says it is great way to keep the frustration levels down. It means she doesn't get 'stuck' on one type of shot for too long and keeps us moving along.
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I’ve played in a few at Dornoch. During our captains weekend coming up in two weeks, we have a team event where it is mixed foursomes with three sides of two on the team with the best ball of the three counting, it is also net Stableford. it is a lot more fun than serious golf. My first year, my partner was an 80-year old woman and we laughed all the way around.
The Western Pennsylvania Golf Association has two foursomes events. The Fred Brand Foursomes is at Longue Vue and brings in some of the best players in Western PA every year. The Simple Century Foursomes is held at Allegheny CC. The combined age of the two players must be 100 or greater. I played in it when I lived there and it was great fun. Both events are 36 holes in one day. The player who hit the second shot on #1 in the morning had to tee off on #1 in the afternoon so you got to hit every shot over the course of the day.
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By that I mean alternate shot. I know some UK courses play it regularly. I have played it in a few club tournaments years ago but I never enjoyed it.
Do many of you play it?
I love the format.
Have played the SCGA Foursomes most years for the last 15 or so years. Have three "runner-up" plates for 2nd and 3rd-place finishes with three different partners over the years. I love the format. Why? Because I'm a very, very short hitter for a competitive am. Give me a moderate to long-hitting partner, strategically choose who tees off on odds and who tees off on events, and we can do some damage. :-)
One of the years my partner and I were on our way to winning in a playoff over a couple elite teams. Unfortunately, I returned a 15th club to my bag after the round (I had left it with the assistant pro prior to teeing off that day and he returned it to me after the round while we were on the putting green). Completely unprepared to be in a playoff and zoned out, I then teed off with it in my bag in the playoff.
My partner noticed it because I told him that morning I was taking my 2H out of my bag in order to use my 5W. It was the only club I had with a white shaft. He notice on our third playoff hole and said: "What do we do???"
We drove up to the 12th at Bear Creek, I held the club aloft and said: "We're done. DQ us." LOL
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A few times in club tournaments, but never otherwise.
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I got married so I could play in a foursomes comp...the SD State Husband and Wife.
My wife and I have played in every foursomes conp we can find for more than 30 years.
Oddly, we've shot scores equal to or better than either of us could do on our own ball.
Ken when can we expect the pair of you at BUDA? ;D Most years we manage one round in our "Ryder Cup" style 5 rounds.
It's yet another great thing about Golf. If golf is really a mental game (I believe it is), then the added pressure of not letting your partner down, elevates it to a new level. (And its the most sociable form of golf).
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We have 2 club strokeplay competitions that are foursomes and I always play in them. We also have a (very popular) foursomes knock-out cup. On my visits to Muirfield we always play foursomes in the afternoon. And then, of course, it normally features at BUDA.
I love the format. It's quite demanding, very quick and great fun. Those who don't play it because they want to play their own ball are missing out, I think. What's interesting is how many US BUDA participants are or were reluctant on their first match but become real converts.
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Fell in love with the format in the PM round at Flossmoor with Mark Chapin's group from RCP quite a few years ago. Have been asking/requesting that the CDGA at least try to run a couple of foursomes events as part of their tournament schedule, but with no success so far...
It's a fabulous format for a group on a trip playing 36 holes per day. The only real problem is that you play so quickly that if there are other non-foursomes groups in front you'll be standing around a lot.
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I recently played in an eightsome with 4 alt shot teams. It was so much fun and I would do that again in a heartbeat, especially for a second round of the day. The best part was that you were roaming in a pack and could have a lot of conversations in between shots while still getting done quickly.
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Do You Know the Game You’re Playing?
We can’t choose the game. We can’t choose the rules. We can only choose how we play. In finite games, like football or chess, the players are known, the rules are fixed, and the endpoint is clear. The winners and losers are easily identified. In infinite games, like business or politics or life itself, the players come and go, the rules are changeable, and there is no defined endpoint. There are no winners or losers in an infinite game; there is only ahead and behind.
The above is from the introduction to the Infinite Game by Simon Sinek.
If you see golf a finite game where the score matters the most, then foursomes seems to be torture for these players, the score dictates how they feel about the game and they can't figure out their contribution to the score or how they feel about it.
If you see golf as an infinite game, to paraphrase Bagger Vance, a game that can't be won only played, then foursomes is a great game. It's a terrible pity that the card and pencil spirit means we see little of such a great format.
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Golf is supposed to be a GAME. Unfortunately, we Americans turned it into some sort of test of athletic skill based on the “what did you shoot” mentality. I’ve had some of my most fun playing golf participating in foursomes matches. What difference does it make what “score” you have when your team can squeeze out a win on a hole with a 7? 🤣 You won the the hole!!! What else matters? Then you start all over on the next hole. It’s a brilliant game!!!
At Deal and Gullane we have team matches against other clubs that usually feature a fourball game in the morning, followed by lunch, then a foursomes match in the afternoon. What a glorious day of golf and fellowship. Doesn’t get much better.
In my old age, I have come to the conclusion that team golf is the highest form of the game. Singles golf tends to be “golf masturbation.” 😉
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Score has nothing to do with me not enjoying foursomes nor is it fear that I or my partner might hit a poor shot. Whenever my partner has hit a shot I think, “Boy, I wish I could have hit it.”
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Our boys team normally plays in a tournament in PA each September. It took place the same weekend as Homecoming this year, so I opted out and set up a match with a local rival. We played the front nine at the lovely Delaware Park Meadows course in Buffalo's version of Central Park. I wanted the kids to get back to school, across the street, for the other Homecoming matches, so we played two-man, alternate shot.
The kids were around the nine holes in about 90 minutes. They had a blast, and the opposing team asked politely if we would lock them in for next year. I agreed on the spot. I want to say that the low nine was 38, and that was pretty decent for kids who had never played the format before. I've never played it, because everyone I play with is all about getting THEIR 18 holes in. I don't begrudge them that, but I would like to play the format before my sand dwindles down.
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Love foursomes. Played at BUDA and at Kings Putter. When format choices are discussed, I always vote for two foursome matches per event.
My first foursomes partner was Bob Jenkins at Sherwood CC. Many fairways run down narrow valleys. As a lefty who looses my tee shots left, I left righty Bob with approach shots where the ball lay below his feet. Must have pissed him off, because he reciprocated by leaving me in the right rough with the ball below my feet. ;D Somehow we managed to halve the match.
My former club held mixed foursome events two nights a week. With a nongolfing wife I didn't have much chance to play until a friend passed away leaving his widow in need of a partner.
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I think of 4somes as an all day thing. 36 with a big break for lunch. I wouldn't normally choose to play 18 except in winter. That said, 4somes sucks if the course ahead is 4 balls or if guys don't walk ahead. Assuming you are playing a 2ball course, the reason 4somes is super fast is because guys are well ahead of play. It makes no sense for four guys to be on a tee.
All that said, I prefer Greensomes.
Ciao
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Golf is supposed to be a GAME. Unfortunately, we Americans turned it into some sort of test of athletic skill based on the “what did you shoot” mentality. I’ve had some of my most fun playing golf participating in foursomes matches. What difference does it make what “score” you have when your team can squeeze out a win on a hole with a 7? 🤣 You won the the hole!!! What else matters? Then you start all over on the next hole. It’s a brilliant game!!!
At Deal and Gullane we have team matches against other clubs that usually feature a fourball game in the morning, followed by lunch, then a foursomes match in the afternoon. What a glorious day of golf and fellowship. Doesn’t get much better.
In my old age, I have come to the conclusion that team golf is the highest form of the game. Singles golf tends to be “golf masturbation.” 😉
Golf is a SPORT in the truest definition of the word. There is no simulated conflict. You manuever a ball across a field toward a target.
When you start counting the number of moves you are moving into the realm of a game because the conflict arises by comparing those moves to... something.
Foursomes is a GAME where conflict is simulated between two teams playing golf with one ball for each team.
As a game, Foursome matches are a delight.
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I think of 4somes as an all day thing. 36 with a big break for lunch. I wouldn't normally choose to play 18 except in winter. That said, 4somes sucks if the course ahead is 4 balls or if guys don't walk ahead. Assuming you are playing a 2ball course, the reason 4somes is super fast is because guys are well ahead of play. It makes no sense for four guys to be on a tee.
All that said, I prefer Greensomes.
Ciao
This is why I miss the old "right-of-way" section in the etiquette that was removed twenty or so years ago.
Most tee times in the United States are technically composed of four single golfers sharing a tee time.
Single golfers, as we all once knew, have no standing on a golf course in relation to matches.
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I think of 4somes as an all day thing. 36 with a big break for lunch. I wouldn't normally choose to play 18 except in winter. That said, 4somes sucks if the course ahead is 4 balls or if guys don't walk ahead. Assuming you are playing a 2ball course, the reason 4somes is super fast is because guys are well ahead of play. It makes no sense for four guys to be on a tee.
All that said, I prefer Greensomes.
Ciao
This is why I miss the old "right-of-way" section in the etiquette that was removed twenty or so years ago.
Most tee times in the United States are technically composed of four single golfers sharing a tee time.
Single golfers, as we all once knew, have no standing on a golf course in relation to matches.
If a course isn't too crowded it's OK for 4somes to play through a few groups. It doesn't make much sense if the 4somes is playing through a ton of groups. It just slows the course down. If 4somes is the choice of game pick the appropriate course or the inappropriate course and go for very early or very late times. Expect to stand around to the point of where you may as well play your own ball. 4somes is great in theory, in practice it rarely works well when not playing 4somes club or comp.
Ciao
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I was due to play foursomes at Brancaster ahead of the recent BUDA unfortunately one of our four failed to show without giving any notice. It was fortunate that there were other BUDites about to move things around and we all managed to go out as two balls. I have to say, while I don't mind foursomes now and again, I'd much rather play my own ball over a course that I've never played before and unlikely to go back to.
Niall
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We played eightsomes at a Fried Egg event and while I was a little skeptical of how it would work, it was actually a ton of fun. It was probably the perfect game considering it was 95° and humid as hell. We did have the place to ourselves, though.
I doubt many courses would let eightsomes out amongst the "gen pop", but that's one way to get around pushing up against everyone else on the course playing their own ball. Depending on how efficient everyone is it could work.
I think the bigger issue would be the US golfer's resistance to paying full price for half the shots. Most people want to hit every single shot, post a score, etc. (Not me, but "most people".) It's a great game for late fall/early spring when the weather sucks, conditions are less than ideal, and you can't post a score.
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Greensomes, ie where both players drive-off and they then pick which ball to play alternate shot with for the rest of the hole, is a format that isn’t played enough imo. Can be pretty tactical and strategic.
It used to be played in the Ryder Cup. Wish it still was.
Atb
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Greensomes, ie where both players drive-off and they then pick which ball to play alternate shot with for the rest of the hole, is a format that isn’t played enough imo. Can be pretty tactical and strategic.
It used to be played in the Ryder Cup. Wish it still was.
Atb
I like that. (I didn't know what "greensome" was.) This would probably be something that could fit into the current American mindset and tee sheet a little better than foursome would.
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We play a foursomes event at WBYC every fall to commemorate Jimmy Johnston, WBYC member and winner of the US Amateur at Pebble Beach in 1929. It's 18 in the am, coat and tie for Muirfield-style lunch (ie much food and drinking encouraged), 18 in the afternoon, then back to coat and tie, apps, drinks, winners announced. Pat Craig started this event and it's the best of the season!
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We play a foursomes event at WBYC every fall to commemorate Jimmy Johnston, WBYC member and winner of the US Amateur at Pebble Beach in 1929. It's 18 in the am, coat and tie for Muirfield-style lunch (ie much food and drinking encouraged), 18 in the afternoon, then back to coat and tie, apps, drinks, winners announced. Pat Craig started this event and it's the best of the season!
Mark beat me to it! Thanks for the kind words.
I love foursomes! It's a great way to enjoy the game, especially if you're playing more than 36 holes in one day, or are interested in playing more quickly.
I remember back at the first Mashie at Lost Dunes when Tom Doak asked the group to consider foursomes for the 2nd round so we didn't slow up the course too much on a Sunday morning. A few grumbles as some feel it's a half-round but I find it a great way to see a course from a different perspective.
Back when I was a caddie at Brookline in college, they used to host a member-member tournament where it was two days, best ball in the morning....long lunch...then a quick foursomes round in the afternoon. It was a super fun format.
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We play a foursomes event at WBYC every fall to commemorate Jimmy Johnston, WBYC member and winner of the US Amateur at Pebble Beach in 1929. It's 18 in the am, coat and tie for Muirfield-style lunch (ie much food and drinking encouraged), 18 in the afternoon, then back to coat and tie, apps, drinks, winners announced. Pat Craig started this event and it's the best of the season!
Sounds fun but why the jackets? Not once but twice?
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Not proper foursomes, but we used to have a tournament at work with teams from each department and we would play modified alternate shot where both would tee off but you would pick a drive and play alternate shots from thereon in. I think you also had to use nine tee shots per person.
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I play quite a lot of foursomes. All the public school old boys events (Halford Hewitt, Grafton Morrish, Brent Knoll Bowl) are foursomes. I love playing it, but if I was playing somewhere new I'd feel hard done by to play foursomes on it. It's great in the right circumstances, but I get to play relatively infrequently and don't really want to hit every other shot when I do get the chance in a friendly game. Tournament stuff is different.
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Waste of time. I think the format where you hit each others tee shot and then start alternating is fun.
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'When did foursomes become posh' is one of the more intriguing sub-fields in British golf history. As has been noted, many clubs beloved of GCA including the Sacred Nine, Huntercombe, Rye, Aldeburgh, Brancaster and Woking are pretty much two-ball only, certainly for member play. The Senior Golfers' Society (disclaimer- I belong) has an amazing fixture list of over 100 matches each year, almost all of which are foursomes.
As Sean says, foursomes are a cracking format for a 36-hole day, not least in that all participants can hit all the teeshots. But foursomes do presuppose that everybody plays a reasonable amount of golf, and probably to a reasonable standard. The British golf calendar used to start each spring with a welter of foursomes events, including the Sunningdale Foursomes (scratch-ish) the Halford Hewitt (huge team event for 640 old boys of British public (i.e. private) schools, and the Winchilsea Foursomes (handicap) at Harlech. These all still exist, but are no longer reported in the national press as they routinely were in the last century.
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I've said it before, and perhaps its time to say again. But why is everyone (who plays 4 somes at least) in such a damn rush to get the golf over with? Why not enjoy the views and the architecture? ;D
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I enjoy playing 4-somes in the pm as a second round of that day.
We have a "couples tourney" at our club loosely called "The Divorce Open" that is 4-somes and I play it with my wife and it's a ton of fun.
It's a UK thing for sure and has never really caught on here in the US.
Our club tried to promote it for early Sunday mornings, but it's just not gathering momentum.
The US, as everyone here knows, has an individual stroke play culture.
Perhaps that's why the Euros always seem to do better on Day 1 of the Ryder Cup.
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I've said it before, and perhaps its time to say again. But why is everyone (who plays 4 somes at least) in such a damn rush to get the golf over with? Why not enjoy the views and the architecture? ;D
Well, traditionally it was because of cold weather and short daylight hours. I think it also has something to do with boredom. I know I often lose interest around 12 - 14. If I have to stand around...
Ciao
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I've said it before, and perhaps its time to say again. But why is everyone (who plays 4 somes at least) in such a damn rush to get the golf over with? Why not enjoy the views and the architecture? ;D
Well, traditionally it was because of cold weather and short daylight hours. I think it also has something to do with boredom. I know I often lose interest around 12 - 14. If I have to stand around...
Ciao
And as we’ve said before, poor weather is another damn good reason to play from further forward tees ….. get around quicker and avoid the cold in the winter. It can’t half get bloody cold standing around waiting to play or searching for someone’s else’s golf ball. Brrrrrr………….
Atb
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Foursomes are great! Growing up in the US, I hardly ever played the format, mostly playing four-balls and individual events, but have since had the chance to play foursomes in competition. What a treat! There is the intrinsic strategy of who plays first from the odds versus the evens, but more importantly, there is the team aspect of the competition, which is at a higher level and more pertinent to the result than the team element in four-balls.
I have been fortunate to play in an annual event for many years that includes foursomes as one of the competitions, and it is always among the highlights of my golfing seasons.
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I’m clearly a bit different to most in this group as 75-80% of my golf is foursomes. Fourball is reserved for trips so maybe 3 or 4 games in an average year and the rest is two ball. The club does have one fourball competition each year, in late January!
Two ball clubs are a small market but fortunately tend to be based at quality courses.
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'When did foursomes become posh' is one of the more intriguing sub-fields in British golf history. As has been noted, many clubs beloved of GCA including the Sacred Nine, Huntercombe, Rye, Aldeburgh, Brancaster and Woking are pretty much two-ball only, certainly for member play. The Senior Golfers' Society (disclaimer- I belong) has an amazing fixture list of over 100 matches each year, almost all of which are foursomes.
I think 'when did foursomes become posh' is slightly arse about face. It isn't that foursomes became posh, it's that golf became more democratic. Back in the early 20th century, most golf -- both social and matches between clubs -- was played at foursomes (matches were usually 36 holes to be fair, a foursomes round and a singles one). And the vast majority of golf at that time was quite posh, except perhaps in a few parts of Scotland and the odd other spot.
As the game became more open and available to not-so-posh people, formats other than foursomes increased in popularity, to the point we have now where foursomes is really only played in posh circles and a very few other places. So foursomes has always been posh. It's just that golf as a whole used to be fairly posh too.
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Adam,
Can't agree. There were plenty of mechanics clubs about in the late 19th century and even before they were formed there is evidence that golf was played by all classes going back a lot earlier than that. Following the boom of the 80's and 90's hundreds of new clubs were formed round the country and I think it was then that the popularity of foursomes began to wane, with the exception it seems of some of the posher clubs. So in that respect I think Richard is correct in that foursomes became posh.
It would be interesting to know whether the likes of the Carnoustie clubs, the Monifieth and Montrose clubs and indeed the St Andrews Golf Club still play a lot of foursomes but I suspect not.
Also, of the two ball clubs, how many would be considered posh and how many just an ordinary club ? Does playing foursomes make you posh !
Niall
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I think the reason for the change is no more complex than what we see now....everyone wants to do what the pros do.
And 99% of what you see them do on the telly, for the last 1/2 century or so, is medal play...
P.S. Here in the states at least, there is an extra wrinkle of: "I paid my green fee, I want to get the full value out of it and hit every shot" And I can't disagree with that...
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I enjoy it the once each year I get to play it. That said, I would be unhappy if it were my only round at a cool course. I don't want to skip hitting half of the shots.
A 36 hole foursomes day would be great—tee off the evens one round and the odds the other.
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My first round at Pacific Dunes was foursomes. Didn’t miss a thing.
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It's my favorite format. I wish it were more prevalent in the states. My local club has turned the annual alternate shot tournament into a shamble. I prefer true alternate shot as there's more pressure. Great format.
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I hate shamble gloat. Recently had a guy getting 22 strokes ask why we had used my score only on one hole.
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I can't imagine a worse fate for anyone than to be paired with me in foursomes. It's one thing for me to have to play my shots, it's another for anyone else to......
The only time I did so was about 15 years ago with another amazing poster on here in the Pensacola area, no prizes for guessing, we all love and miss him. Alas, he and I weren't paired together, another suffered the unkind fate, for 6 holes anyway. I've never seen anyone so happy to trade partners.
I guess it depends on one's make up. I tend to feel guilty for any bad shot. I don't mind others', I'm used to playing mine, after all. I just get the feeling others don't feel the same.
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Sorry, don't know what went wrong there. Doesn't matter, wasn't interesting.
Have a nice weekend, all.
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Only in foursomes can you try a heroic recovery without the shame. I love it when my partner hits a bad shot. House money.
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I think the reason for the change is no more complex than what we see now....everyone wants to do what the pros do.
And 99% of what you see them do on the telly, for the last 1/2 century or so, is medal play...
P.S. Here in the states at least, there is an extra wrinkle of: "I paid my green fee, I want to get the full value out of it and hit every shot" And I can't disagree with that...
My impression is that at least at some UK clubs you get a discount for playing alternate shot. Is that correct? Might it just be for couples to play alternate shot?
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To Garland's point, yes, it certainly used to be the case at clubs like Huntercombe and Woking that visiting societies or parties playing foursomes got a reduced green fee.
And many thanks both to Adam and to Niall for their v interesting comments on foursomes and 'posh'. It's also undeniably true that there has been a certain amount of 'invented tradition' at some of the now '2-ball' clubs: I well recall the late Bobby Furber saying that at many of these places in the 1940s and 1950s you could play pretty much any format you wanted, for the simple reason that there was hardly anyone about a lot of the time. That said, when I was a child there was a notice on the first tee at Harlech which stated that 'Fourball matches are permitted. but have no standing on the course'. That really is a vanished world.
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When a buddy and I played Sunningdale, I was told that the New Course was the two-ball course and the Old was the four-ball course that day. We played the New, had lunch, and waited til about 3 pm when it was ok to play the Old. For clubs with two courses, it is an excellent way to go. The same was true at Walton Heath when we played it.
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I've said it before, and perhaps its time to say again. But why is everyone (who plays 4 somes at least) in such a damn rush to get the golf over with? Why not enjoy the views and the architecture? ;D
Perhaps if you weren't so busy enjoying the views and the architecture you could get out of bunkers Sandman. ;D
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When a buddy and I played Sunningdale, I was told that the New Course was the two-ball course and the Old was the four-ball course that day. We played the New, had lunch, and waited til about 3 pm when it was ok to play the Old. For clubs with two courses, it is an excellent way to go. The same was true at Walton Heath when we played it.
Tommy,
I think a lot of clubs also have visitor times as two-ball only for first hour or two in the morning to keep the speed of the course up through the day (not clog it up with fourballs right from the off)…
Like the comment on invented tradition by Richard. That has to be true.
Without reading the whole thread, assume someone has mentioned foursomes only works properly when the whole course is playing and understands it? The format should be significantly quicker than twoball singles with proper foursomes paths.
Has anyone then mentioned that it is designed more for better players; or at least those who haven’t topped a tee-shot for a number of years?
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Is there the same debate in Tennis circles re doubles?
It has many of the things people don't like about foursomes. Only hit half the time...pressure of letting your partner down...
And it has many of the things I like about foursomes. More sociable...pressure of not letting your partner down adds interest to me.
Anyway both offer ways of keeping the game interesting and I do like variety.
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Interesting article by John Morrison (Colt's partner) on foursomes that I just found. I hope it is readable.
(https://i.imgur.com/TZ3HKYB.png?1)
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To Ally's point, it is the perfect Category Two winter game (in UK terms - handicaps 6ish to 10ish).
The Dinner Match Society (one of the great redoubts of foursomes in the USA, of which our founder Ran M is a member) has just completed its Autumn Meeting at Essex County with the usual welter of 36-hole foursome matches, off scratch, and, apparently, a (very) long lunch...
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Just played a modified alternate shot (both drive, select best one) during an afternoon round at Pacific Dunes with a partner who is a 24 and a really nice guy.
I wouldn't recommend it.
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Just for fun, I played it at Musgrove Mill a bunch of years ago when I took three guys. I played from places I never knew existed. I have to admit it was fun, but then I was good friends with the other players. We played a "true" alternate shot. Whoever putted out the partner hit the tee ball. That is the way I grew up playing foursomes.
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Greensomes, ie where both players drive-off and they then pick which ball to play alternate shot with for the rest of the hole, is a format that isn’t played enough imo. Can be pretty tactical and strategic.
It used to be played in the Ryder Cup. Wish it still was.
Atb
Lots of clubs in SoCal are using a similar format in Invitationals and Member-Guests, etc.. What we call a "Shamble." Both players tee off, choose the best drive, and both players play in from their. Scoring can be either better ball of partners or aggregate. Great format and really speeds up play since there's almost always one ball in play off the tee. As the final day of a three day tournament, it's a blast.
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Coincidentally, I’ve a 36 hole foursomes match this Saturday against a fellow Irish club.
That’s another aspect of the game in GB&I. Friendly, social club matches are often foursomes.
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Greensomes, ie where both players drive-off and they then pick which ball to play alternate shot with for the rest of the hole, is a format that isn’t played enough imo. Can be pretty tactical and strategic.
It used to be played in the Ryder Cup. Wish it still was.
Atb
Lots of clubs in SoCal are using a similar format in Invitationals and Member-Guests, etc.. What we call a "Shamble." Both players tee off, choose the best drive, and both players play in from their. Scoring can be either better ball of partners or aggregate. Great format and really speeds up play since there's almost always one ball in play off the tee. As the final day of a three day tournament, it's a blast.
Another interesting format I like is
1st Both hit a drive
2nd Hit your partner's drive
3 Choose one 2nd shot and play alternate shot for the rest of the hole.
Ciao
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Greensomes, ie where both players drive-off and they then pick which ball to play alternate shot with for the rest of the hole, is a format that isn’t played enough imo. Can be pretty tactical and strategic.
It used to be played in the Ryder Cup. Wish it still was.
Atb
Lots of clubs in SoCal are using a similar format in Invitationals and Member-Guests, etc.. What we call a "Shamble." Both players tee off, choose the best drive, and both players play in from their. Scoring can be either better ball of partners or aggregate. Great format and really speeds up play since there's almost always one ball in play off the tee. As the final day of a three day tournament, it's a blast.
Another interesting format I like is
1st Both hit a drive
2nd Hit your partner's drive
3 Choose one 2nd shot and play alternate shot for the rest of the hole.
Ciao
That sounds fun!!!
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"Chapman System" is the name of a 2-person team competition format for golfers that works like this: Both golfers on the side hit drives; Each plays the other's ball for the second shots;The best of the second shots is selected, and from there the two partners play alternate shot into the hole[/size].
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https://www.liveabout.com/chapman-system-golf-format-1560796 (https://www.liveabout.com/chapman-system-golf-format-1560796)
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Foursomes, Greensomes and Chapman are all fun. The latter two being much less pressure than the former in that you don't have that one ball off the tee thing to deal with.
Chapman is only slightly less pressure than Greensomes.
As I said before, I've played hundreds of rounds of these formats in mixed competitions with my wife both here and in Scotland. TBH, foursomes is also a lot of fun if you use Stableford scoring, especially on a links course where disaster can always be lurking around the corner.
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"Chapman System" is the name of a 2-person team competition format for golfers that works like this: Both golfers on the side hit drives; Each plays the other's ball for the second shots;The best of the second shots is selected, and from there the two partners play alternate shot into the hole.
https://www.liveabout.com/chapman-system-golf-format-1560796 (https://www.liveabout.com/chapman-system-golf-format-1560796)
That is also called Pinehurst in some places. The West Penn GA had two events that used that format. They were their Brothers and Father-Son events.