Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Tommy Williamsen on September 23, 2022, 02:07:24 PM
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I heard a suggestion that the squads could be made up of six men and six women golfers. That might be fun to watch. It would also make the competition closer given the international strength of the. LPGA.
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Not a bad idea. Would you have mixed teams in the competition? E.g., foursome with one man and one woman on each team.
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I’d love to see mixed teams but failing that (and it might be a stretch to persuade the PGA Tour to share the money!) why not make it a genuine USA v Rest of the World match? Add in the Europeans and it’d be a very different contest.
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Not a bad idea. Would you have mixed teams in the competition? E.g., foursome with one man and one woman on each team.
I would say yes, in fact have both foursome sessions be mandatory mixed pairings. Then they would really need to be strategic with pairings and who tees off odds or evens.
Terrific idea Tommy!
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The ROW team has been hurt by the LIV defections more than the US team. Losing Smith, Leishman, Niemann, Oousthuizen and Ancer certainly made the ROW team a lot weaker.
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Meh. No thanks.
I watch a lot of women's golf, but meh to this. They have the Solheim Cup, which is good entertainment. And though the Presidents Cup is an exhibition of sorts, adding the LPGA to it wouldn't make sense for the PGA Tour, and it'd make it more of an exhibition and less serious. The men don't know the LPGA Tour players, they don't compete against them week to week, etc. And the course setup, etc. would be totally different (men can play to firmer greens, thicker rough, etc.).
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Erik,
Its match play. If ever a course didn't really matter for a Pro event, its for this.
It'd be a great opportunity to take it to a short old timey course that the PGA no longer plays...
P.S. And which team can gel better and figure out each other's game is half the point...
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Its match play.
Wow, I didn't know that! Thank you! :P
If ever a course didn't really matter for a Pro event, its for this.
Course setup would still affect things quite a bit. The men hit the ball higher and farther and have substantially more speed than the women.
It'd be a great opportunity to take it to a short old timey course that the PGA no longer plays...
They have this thing already, it's called the Solheim Cup…
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Its match play.
Wow, I didn't know that! Thank you! :P
If ever a course didn't really matter for a Pro event, its for this.
Course setup would still affect things quite a bit. The men hit the ball higher and farther and have substantially more speed than the women.
It'd be a great opportunity to take it to a short old timey course that the PGA no longer plays...
They have this thing already, it's called the Solheim Cup…
Erik,
C'mon man, Solheim cup is for US and European women players only...that was one of the main points of the thread...lol
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If Erik doesn’t like it, it must be a great idea….. they need to find a way to fix it or end it. Nothing wrong with just the Ryder Cup and Solheim Cup. Other than the Tiger Ernie playoff has it ever been any good?
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I think it’s time to add in the women – after all, as somebody pointed out, the Ryder Cup got a lot better when they made more players eligible, too.
On another note, the founders probably would’ve figured on more than one Chinese player making the team in the first 28 years.
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Currently, 6 of the top 8 women (plus numbers 9 and 10, too) in the world are from Presidents Cup international team countries.
Along GCA lines, what course setup considerations would arise if men and women were playing on mixed foursomes teams?
WW
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C'mon man, Solheim cup is for US and European women players only...that was one of the main points of the thread...lol
Just skipping right over how course setup could make it really, really difficult for the women, eh? :)
they need to find a way to fix it or end it. Nothing wrong with just the Ryder Cup and Solheim Cup. Other than the Tiger Ernie playoff has it ever been any good?
Uhm, you weren't entertained by the last one at Royal Melbourne? It was some of the best golf televised in the last five years. It was better than the Ryder Cup at Whistling.
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I can’t pinpoint why I don’t care for these team events, but it has something to do with wives and girlfriends running around and maybe this playing for your country stuff. Granted it is not as bad as the War by the Shore. The people who are playing for their country are in the fight of their lives with Russia. This is just a silly golf exhibition.
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The JC Penney Classic was a PGA-LPGA mixed team event played over a 40-year period, 1960 to 1999. Past winners included John Daly & Laura Davies, Davis Love III & Beth Daniel, Tom Purtzer & Julie Inkster, Fred Couples & Jan Stephenson and Curtis Strange & Nancy Lopez. Sam Snead & Shirley Englehorn won the event in 1964.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JCPenney_Classic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JCPenney_Classic)
Men and women did compete on the same course.
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C'mon man, Solheim cup is for US and European women players only...that was one of the main points of the thread...lol
Just skipping right over how course setup could make it really, really difficult for the women, eh? :)
they need to find a way to fix it or end it. Nothing wrong with just the Ryder Cup and Solheim Cup. Other than the Tiger Ernie playoff has it ever been any good?
Uhm, you weren't entertained by the last one at Royal Melbourne? It was some of the best golf televised in the last five years. It was better than the Ryder Cup at Whistling.
No I wasn’t. When you win one time in what 20+ years, it’s a joke. Time for a tweak. How are the ratings? More people might be watching LIV. Adding women might be a great move.
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No I wasn’t. When you win one time in what 20+ years, it’s a joke. Time for a tweak. How are the ratings? More people might be watching LIV. Adding women might be a great move.
The ratings are fine (LIV got, what, 62k viewers last week?) and, more importantly, the PGA Tour is going to make plenty of money on this. They would see no reason to change this at all.
And the last Presidents Cup was quite good, so if you weren't entertained by that… then I'm not sure why you're even on GCA. Conditions were great. Tiger was a playing captain. The matches were close. The ball rolled a bunch, so angles mattered. Patrick Reed was coming off his sandscaping. Ernie created the identity for the Internationals.
Like I said, one of the best televised golf events in the last five years.
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No I wasn’t. When you win one time in what 20+ years, it’s a joke. Time for a tweak. How are the ratings? More people might be watching LIV. Adding women might be a great move.
The ratings are fine (LIV got, what, 62k viewers last week?) and, more importantly, the PGA Tour is going to make plenty of money on this. They would see no reason to change this at all.
Just like the Detroit Lions. The franchise makes plenty of money, so no reason to change. Not sure income is the measure of success in either case here.
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I always thought it was "One too many events". we have the Ryder Cup for men, I think that's enough.
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I find it interesting that while The President's Cup is USA VS world, minus Europe and the Ryder Cup is USA VS Europe, minus the rest of the world, The Laver Cup is Europe VS the entire world. There is no point except that I found it interesting that the USA does not field very many world-class tennis players.
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No I wasn’t. When you win one time in what 20+ years, it’s a joke. Time for a tweak. How are the ratings? More people might be watching LIV. Adding women might be a great move.
The ratings are fine (LIV got, what, 62k viewers last week?) and, more importantly, the PGA Tour is going to make plenty of money on this. They would see no reason to change this at all.
Just like the Detroit Lions. The franchise makes plenty of money, so no reason to change. Not sure income is the measure of success in either case here.
Revenues were the reason for creating the presidents cup.
The PgA controlled Ryder Cup exploded in all ways (including revenues), and the pga tour wanted to tap that well within their own control. they also wanted to take advantage of guys like Els, Price and YES, Norman with their standing in world golf.
We laughed (when it started) that it should always be played in Florida because almost every player from BOTH teams lived there :D
Like LIV, it’s a made up competition with made up team.
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"There is no point except that I found it interesting that the USA does not field very many world-class tennis players."
Tommy -
As a former (and still some time) tennis player, it is interesting to see how dominance in the game has changed and shifted over the past 60-70 years. In the 1950's-60's and into the 1970's, the Australian & USA players pretty much dominated the men's games. Then the Swedes (Borg, Edberg & Willander) were strong and challenged the likes of Connors & McEnroe from the mid-1970's into the early 1990's. Americans Sampras, Agassi, Courier & Chang were a major force in the 1990's.
So far this century the Europeans, especially from Spain and Central/Eastern Europe, have dominated the men's game. I cannot offer any reasons why.
There is now a crop of young American men who are rising in the world rankings. Eight of them are ranked in the World Top 50. Time will tell if any become dominate players.
DT
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"There is no point except that I found it interesting that the USA does not field very many world-class tennis players."
Tommy -
As a former (and still some time) tennis player, it is interesting to see how dominance in the game has changed and shifted over the past 60-70 years. In the 1950's-60's and into the 1970's, the Australian & USA players pretty much dominated the men's games. Then the Swedes (Borg, Edberg & Willander) were strong and challenged the likes of Connors & McEnroe from the mid-1970's into the early 1990's. Americans Sampras, Agassi, Courier & Chang were a major force in the 1990's.
So far this century the Europeans, especially from Spain and Central/Eastern Europe, have dominated the men's game. I cannot offer any reasons why.
There is now a crop of young American men who are rising in the world rankings. Eight of them are ranked in the World Top 50. Time will tell if any become dominate players.
DT
I used to play a lot of tennis and loved it that I could run around. I watched some of Federer’s last match yesterday. He and Evonne Goolagong had the most elegant games I ever saw. I loved watching them.
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Tommy -
Watching Federer play over the past 15-20 years was what inspired me to start playing tennis again 10-12 years ago. Great style matched with plenty of substance.
DT
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Fun stuff this afternoon.
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Fun stuff this afternoon.
Yes. It makes Sunday watchable. Not that many in the U.S. will against the NFL, but if you have two TVs or a DVR, you're set.
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Just like the Detroit Lions. The franchise makes plenty of money, so no reason to change. Not sure income is the measure of success in either case here.
The PGA Tour certainly cares how much money it makes. Many of you here are arguing from the fan's perspective.
Fun stuff this afternoon.
Don't tell anyone here. ;)
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I can’t pinpoint why I don’t care for these team events, but it has something to do with wives and girlfriends running around and maybe this playing for your country stuff. Granted it is not as bad as the War by the Shore. The people who are playing for their country are in the fight of their lives with Russia. This is just a silly golf exhibition.
All the professional tournaments are, in effect, exhibitions. I put only the true opens and the amateur events in the competition category.
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If the PGA wants money do a LIV vs PGA Sheik Cup. The Saudi’s would gladly pony up a cool Billion for a 10 yr 5 tournament deal. And who knows, we may be entertained.
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There is no point except that I found it interesting that the USA does not field very many world-class tennis players.
The last time an American male won a tennis major was 2003 when Agassi win the Australian Open and Roddick won the US Open. More important, it was also the year Federer won his first. The only non-European to win one since was Del Potro at the US Open. Hence Europe v The World makes total sense.
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The President’s Cup is another meaningless, silly season money grab for all
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[/size][size=78%]When will the PGA Tour learn that golf needs a break from Labor Day to New Year’s Day ?[/size]
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I guess I look at the Cup competitions a little differently. I’m somewhat interested in which team wins but I just enjoy watching each match. There are always some good ones.
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I didn’t watch a lot with the Bills playing outcome is what was expected.
I just wish JT would play great golf without making a big deal about not being given a putt. He comes off as a whiny brat. Zinger said he never had a problem not being given a putt. You’re a great player, a multiple major winner. Just knock it in. You think Arnie or Jack would act that way when not given a putt? It’s something I would expect Sergio to do. Show some class.
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2 suggestions
- singles should have shotgun start. Matches would end at approx the same time
- dissolve both Ryder & Pres Cup. Have a Western Hemisphere vs Everyone else match. Format requires all to play all sessions. Match would be every 4 years on non Olympic years.
Never happen...
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Just a thought, but I think this tournament would be better if the two teams and their captains parachuted in on opening day! This could be followed by a long drive contest and a skills challenge! The winners would get points for their team. If the matches result in a tie, the two captains jump into the "squared circle" and hold a best out of three falls, no holds barred.
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I find it interesting that while The President's Cup is USA VS world, minus Europe and the Ryder Cup is USA VS Europe, minus the rest of the world, The Laver Cup is Europe VS the entire world. There is no point except that I found it interesting that the USA does not field very many world-class tennis players.
Since Agassi won the Australia Open in 2003, exactly three non-Europeans have won a men's tennis major out of the last 79 played.. 2003 US Open (Roddick - US) 2004 French Open (Gaston Gaudio - Argentina) and the 2009 US Open (del Potro - Argentina).
There's a number of good US & Australian players, but they will have to stick around for another couple years until age catches up with Nadal and Djokovic to make a dent in the majors. To that point, Nadal looked like he might be near the end at the Laver Cup over the weekend. Hard to see him winning anything except another French Open (yawn)
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I find it interesting that while The President's Cup is USA VS world, minus Europe and the Ryder Cup is USA VS Europe, minus the rest of the world, The Laver Cup is Europe VS the entire world. There is no point except that I found it interesting that the USA does not field very many world-class tennis players.
Since Agassi won the Australia Open in 2003, exactly three non-Europeans have won a men's tennis major out of the last 79 played.. 2003 US Open (Roddick - US) 2004 French Open (Gaston Gaudio - Argentina) and the 2009 US Open (del Potro - Argentina).
There's a number of good US & Australian players, but they will have to stick around for another couple years until age catches up with Nadal and Djokovic to make a dent in the majors. To that point, Nadal looked like he might be near the end at the Laver Cup over the weekend. Hard to see him winning anything except another French Open (yawn)
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I thought the President's Cup was LIV for a second there. The belly dude just needed a LIV hat to set off the photo.
(https://iili.io/sg3cDF.md.jpg) (https://freeimage.host/i/sg3cDF)
To me, the President's Cup is a fake Ryder Cup event.
(https://mobile.twitter.com/ShooterMcGavin_/status/1573704797731053568/photo/1)
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I thought the President's Cup was LIV for a second there. The belly dude just needed a LIV hat to set off the photo.
(https://iili.io/sg3cDF.md.jpg) (https://freeimage.host/i/sg3cDF)
To me, the President's Cup is a fake Ryder Cup event.
(https://mobile.twitter.com/ShooterMcGavin_/status/1573704797731053568/photo/1)
I fall for things but that must be an edited picture. Now I can't unsee it.
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Eliminate the captains. Pick the teams by points and appoint a playing captain to be in charge.
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Regardless if it becomes the next evolution of the President's Cup, or a new standalone event, a mixed Cup would be a fantastic edition to the golf landscape. I could envision an event where day one would have Women's Fourball and Men's Foresomes, day 2 would be Men's Fourball and Women's Foresomes, Day 3 Mixed Foresomes and Mixed Fourball, and finally day 4 is singles (MvM & WvW).
We have enough recent examples of mixed professional events, concurrent professional events, and professional events in sequence that I would not be concerned about a course being setup well for both groups. In actuality, an event like this may tap into a classification of courses that has been bypassed by the Men's tour. Leading to a place like Cypress Point potentially being an idea venue.