Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Adam Lawrence on September 06, 2022, 12:52:22 PM
-
What are the most authentically links-like courses that have been completely shaped (ie not on untouched sand dunes)? For avoidance of confusion I'm more interested in aesthetic considerations rather than playability in this context. Kingsbarns and Castle Stuart obviously. What else?
-
Chambers Bay comes immediately to mind. Haven’t played there since the greens were converted to Poa, but I can’t see that as a detriment.
-
I suppose Dumbarnie fits your criteria.
-
1. Whistling Straits
2. Pac Dunes
3. Old Mac
4. Macrahanish Dunes
5. European Club...?...maybe, but not a true links
6. Trump-hole Aberdeen...pains me...;-)
-
1. Whistling Straits
2. Pac Dunes
3. Old Mac
4. Macrahanish Dunes
5. European Club...?...maybe, but not a true links
6. Trump-hole Aberdeen...pains me...;-)
Machrihanish Dunes, absolutely not -- it is as pure a natural links as you will find. Similarly the European Club (leaving aside how it plays) was built on a glorious piece of natural sand dunes.
I have never seen a links that looked anything like Whistling Straits.
The other one that springs to my mind is Budersand in Germany.
I like Chambers Bay very much, and it certainly played like a links when I was there. But I don't think anyone would mistake it for a British or Irish course, aesthetically speaking.
-
I don't know that it quite fits the bill as a links-like course, but Bayonne has that vibe to me playing it. It's not particularly close to Kingsbarns in that respect and I haven't played Castle Stuart, but it's an example and a little bit different at the same time.
-
Yas Links? i slightly hesitate as it clearly doesn't run as well as a Kingsbarns or CS. But the end result is quite something.
-
Don't like the course but Spanish Bay in Pebble Beach was constructed I believe on links land but a whole lot of sand was moved and ice plant added.
-
I don't know that it quite fits the bill as a links-like course, but Bayonne has that vibe to me playing it. It's not particularly close to Kingsbarns in that respect and I haven't played Castle Stuart, but it's an example and a little bit different at the same time.
In terms of construction, Bayonne might stand alone. I can't think of another course, including The Straits, that had more earth brought in.
-
2. Pac Dunes
Never been, but this wasn't built on something approximating links ground?
-
Cabot Links ? From what I believe it was an abandoned coal mining site, with heavy soils ( which were sand capped ), I thought the end results were very good. The architecture is engaging, the routing was adventurous, and the aesthetics are simple and lay-of-the-land and not overdone...very Canadian, nothing flashy - just good, clean golf.
-
Cabot Links ? From what I believe it was an abandoned coal mining site, with heavy soils ( which were sand capped ), I thought the end results were very good. The architecture is engaging, the routing was adventurous, and the aesthetics are simple and lay-of-the-land and not overdone...very Canadian, nothing flashy - just good, clean golf.
Seconded.
Another possibility is Yangtze Dunes. I’ve heard really good things about it, but who wants to go to China to report on it? I did see Tiger Beach there, s very low key effort at a links (which are themselves quite low key).
P.S. Of my own work, The Legends (Heathland) ??? was not a bad attempt, and depending on your viewpoint you could say the same about The Renaissance Club, or even Tara Iti. All three were commercial forests when we started, though two had very nice views of the water :)
-
2. Pac Dunes
3. Old Mac
How do these fit the criteria of "constructed" links?
-
"In terms of construction, Bayonne might stand alone. I can't think of another course, including The Straits, that had more earth brought in."
Didn't the Ardfin course also have a huge amount of sand & soil shipped to the island for the construction of the course?
-
"In terms of construction, Bayonne might stand alone. I can't think of another course, including The Straits, that had more earth brought in."
Didn't the Ardfin course also have a huge amount of sand & soil shipped to the island for the construction of the course?
Sand only for the construction of greens. They had originally planned to cap fairways but when they realised how much it would cost to ship all that sand to the little pier at Craighouse and then truck it four miles along the single track road to site, they abandoned the idea and resorted to scavenging for topsoil across the rest of the estate.
I wouldn’t call Ardfin a links in any sense. It is a cliff top course
-
Bayonne by far, in my book. It remains Golf's greatest pottery experiment and a prime example of a shrewd golf developer actually being paid to dredge the adjacent harbor and use the material to shape a links course.
If sand-capping a waste area besides a body of water qualifies, then Ferry Point deserves a healthy mention. Nicklaus' team did a fine job with a flat site and to everyone's credit, it plays far more like a links course than say a Whistling Straits, or its cousin, The Irish Course. The latter Dye pair are effectively aerial course.
Lastly, although it doesn't play nearly firm enough to be considered a true links, I'd add Kiawah Ocean to the list as it was surely constructed along those lines. Come to think of it, I can't name any Pete Dye course that really plays anywhere close to a links.
-
I'm not sure how high up it would rank on any "Best" list but Dundonald was certainly constructed.
I'd also suggest that many of the traditional old links have been constructed even if that construction happened over a period of time.
Niall
-
Shoutout to Grand Cypress "New" (now called the Links Course) here - it's a little kitschy but the first time I played it, it was May and it was dry and the ball was actually bouncing a bit. It was fun. Not "authentic" but a cute facsimile in its own way.
-
Cabot Links ? From what I believe it was an abandoned coal mining site, with heavy soils ( which were sand capped ), I thought the end results were very good. The architecture is engaging, the routing was adventurous, and the aesthetics are simple and lay-of-the-land and not overdone...very Canadian, nothing flashy - just good, clean golf.
Seconded.
Another possibility is Yangtze Dunes. I’ve heard really good things about it, but who wants to go to China to report on it? I did see Tiger Beach there, s very low key effort at a links (which are themselves quite low key).
P.S. Of my own work, The Legends (Heathland) ??? was not a bad attempt, and depending on your viewpoint you could say the same about The Renaissance Club, or even Tara Iti. All three were commercial forests when we started, though two had very nice views of the water :)
I have been to Yangtze Dunes and thought it was very good -- it was an engineering marvel from what i was told, huge amounts of sand were dredged and brought in for the original design.
-
My experience of manufactured links courses is very limited but I did rather enjoy the Castle Course!
😉
-
Would the Lido, the pre-WW2 version count? Maybe some other sand dredge and fill courses too?
Atb
-
2. Pac Dunes
3. Old Mac
How do these fit the criteria of "constructed" links?
i dont know...i am (i guess) confused by the question and how it was posed.
shit, I will amend my responses to avoid the scorn...;-)
So, How about:
1. Chicago Golf Club - plays like a links course in the suburbs of Chicago and 30+ miles from water
2. Streamsong - all those courses play like links courses in the middle of FL
-
Would the Lido, the pre-WW2 version count? Maybe some other sand dredge and fill courses too?
Atb
The new one should count, too, although I am not sure we've really tried for a "links" aesthetic, it will certainly play like one if they keep it as firm as it is now!
-
I did wonder about the ‘new’ Lido but wasn’t brave enough to mention it!!
I’ve seen photos of a course called Winston Links in Germany where huge amounts of sand would seem to have been moved.
Was quite a bit of sand moved when the Glashedy course at Ballyliffin was built?
Might be a few courses in the Middle East that could be included especially those along the seashore (Yas, Adjman etc)?
Atb
-
Cabot Links has been mentioned twice already. But I think it really bares mentioning at how stunning a "faux links" it is. So much so that it seems downright wrong to call it a "faux links" because unless someone told you it was manufactured you would never believe it was. I think it is perhaps one of the bravest modern courses built. I don't think anyone else would have had the restraint to make the course as un-flashy as it is. I think that restraint is what helps the golfer believe that it is entirely natural.
-
How about Kiawah?
-
I can't recall, Adam, how you felt about the Links at Las Palomas — since it was constructed, it would be good to revisit that. Of course, you'd need to disagree with George pepper who opined Las Palomas "was not a links". Of course, George will be met by the Golf Gods at some point, and I am sure they will correct him on that opinion :)