Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Walker Thomas on August 24, 2022, 12:08:02 PM
-
Hey everyone!
My name is Walker Thomas from Tampa, Florida and I just graduated from Auburn University! I start work in Birmingham, AL in mid-October and am finally getting to make my big trip to Scotland I've dreamed of for a few years now! I am going solo for most of it. I leave August 29th and return end of September.
I will be traveling all over the country trying to play as much and see as many places as possible. I am planning on figuring out and making use of the train system. For the first 10ish days I will be staying with a host family in Falkirk (west of Edinburgh), then my father is meeting me for 9 days and we are renting a car and driving around playing together (he hasn't been over there since 1997), then I will spend the rest of the month with another family in Inverness. I have had friends set me up with a few members at courses, which is what I prefer because no one knows the course better than someone who calls it there home!
I have read GCA for a few years and have been reading Bernard Darwin, Horace Hutchinson, Mackenzie, Confidential Guides, Tom Coyne, etc. to get me prepared! I can't wait.
I would love any advice on places to play and what to look for as a first time traveler. Restaurants and stuff outside of golf too! I know there are some well-traveled golfers in here who share the same mindset while looking for places to play and things to see.
While I'm in Inverness I'm planning on playing:
Royal Dornoch (my dad's favorite course! We have this scheduled together)
Nairn
Golspie
Brora
Castle Stuart
Aberdeen area:
Royal Aberdeen
Murcar
Cruden Bay
St. Andrews area:
Old Course (will enter the ballot most days I am near)
New Course
Kingsbarns
Near Edinburgh:
North Berwick (can't wait)
Gullane (I don't really know which are the ones are worth seeing, I think there are 3 courses)
Muirfield (don't know if I can pull this one off this time)
Musselburgh
West Coast:
Western Gailes
Prestwick
Royal Troon
Turnberry (seems too expensive for me this time around)
If I am missing anything I need to see chime in and let me know! And if anyone is in Scotland and wants to tee it up for a round, I'd love to join! Thanks guys I look forward to the advice.
-
Add some less famous stuff like Cullen, Fraserbrough, Kilspindie, etc.
I played the old course 3 days after graduation college back in 2009. Have fun
-
Walker, while you're in East Lothian I would recommend including The Glen Golf Club, North Berwick's East Links, with your loop around the West Links, The Glen isn't as good as OG NB, but it's just a few blocks away and it's a lot of fun. Congrats, enjoy your trip and tell your dad I say hello.
-
Walker
Why are you bothering about taking a train ? With that list of courses you could easily just hitch a lift with the Perry Golf coach !
Seriously though, as Jaeger mentions, you'd be missing a trick if you didn't go off-piste. Go and play a local members club or rough it at a muni and see what Scottish golf is really about.
Niall
-
Given Turnberry was cited as perhaps too expensive...
tells me that value is somewhat important to you.
Nearly every course you listed will be quite expensive, (with the possible exception of Golspie and Brora)
I would seriously take the above advice and see a few less famous courses.(especially this year with sooooo many tourists using 2020-2020 backlog rounds)
A search here on GCA will reveal many gems(if you can wade through the search function)
For example:Head north along the Coast road from Aberdeen to Castle Stuart-along the way you will encounter 10-15 courses that are excellent, authentic,loca,and uncrowded, and will spend about the same $$ on your 12 rounds as your round at Castle Stuart and Kingsbarn combined.
You'll have a far better time, play arguably better golf and meet locals, not over logoed-sweater vested box tickers flying in choppers and staying in Castles.
Another example:Pass on Turnberry and Troon and use the $$$$ to play Prestwick St Nicholas,Glasgow Gailes, West Kilbride etc. and take the ferry over to Arran and play Shiskine, Corrie etc., then onto Machrihanish,Carradale, Machrahanish Dunes,and Dunaverty.
here's another resource I often usehttps://www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-courses/britain-ireland
Enjoy-there are many, many gems to be had,no need to hang out with CEOs and pay full and crazy retail $$$ when much better options and experiences abound.
-
Eureka!
Thanks Kalen/Alex etc.
seems I found a way to triple exposure of one post
-
Given Turnberry was cited as perhaps too expensive...
tells me that value is somewhat important to you.
Nearly every course you listed will be quite expensive, (with the possible exception of Golspie and Brora)
I would seriously take the above advice and see a few less famous courses.(especially this year with sooooo many tourists using 2020-2020 backlog rounds)
A search here on GCA will reveal many gems(if you can wade through the search function)
For example:Head north along the Coast road from Aberdeen to Castle Stuart-along the way you will encounter 10-15 courses that are excellent, authentic,loca,and uncrowded, and will spend about the same $$ on your 12 rounds as your round at Castle Stuart and Kingsbarn combined.
You'll have a far better time, play arguably better golf and meet locals, not over logoed-sweater vested box tickers flying in choppers and staying in Castles.
Another example:Pass on Turnberry and Troon and use the $$$$ to play Prestwick St Nicholas,Glasgow Gailes, West Kilbride etc. and take the ferry over to Arran and play Shiskine, Corrie etc., then onto Machrihanish,Carradale, Machrahanish Dunes,and Dunaverty.
here's another resource I often usehttps://www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-courses/britain-ireland
Enjoy-there are many, many gems to be had,no need to hang out with CEOs and pay full and crazy retail $$$ when much better options and experiences abound.
Just use the text size and preview function :)
Anyway I'd also recommend Elie and Crail.
-
Jeff,
Here is your original post.
To fix in the future:
1) Edit the post
2) Select all text in the post
3) Set the font size to 10 pt
4) It will then show as below.
Given Turnberry was cited as perhaps too expensive...
tells me that value is somewhat important to you.
Nearly every course you listed will be quite expensive, (with the possible exception of Golspie and Brora)
I would seriously take the above advice and see a few less famous courses.(especially this year with sooooo many tourists using 2020-2020 backlog rounds)
A search here on GCA will reveal many gems(if you can wade through the search function)
For example:Head north along the Coast road from Aberdeen to Castle Stuart-along the way you will encounter 10-15 courses that are excellent, authentic,loca,and uncrowded, and will spend about the same $$ on your 12 rounds as your round at Castle Stuart and Kingsbarn combined.
You'll have a far better time, play arguably better golf and meet locals, not over logoed-sweater vested box tickers flying in choppers and staying in Castles.
Another example:Pass on Turnberry and Troon and use the $$$$ to play Prestwick St Nicholas,Glasgow Gailes, West Kilbride etc. and take the ferry over to Arran and play Shiskine, Corrie etc., then onto Machrihanish,Carradale, Machrahanish Dunes,and Dunaverty.
here's another resource I often usehttps://www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-courses/britain-ireland
Enjoy-there are many, many gems to be had,no need to hang out with CEOs and pay full and crazy retail $$$ when much better options and experiences abound.
-
Jeff
All hail to my fellow techno-numpty !
Niall
-
Walker T. -
I am in Dornoch until Sept. 16. I would be happy to meet you & your father here. Tee times at Royal Dornoch are rather hard to come by for the balance of the season. Glad you have booked there in advance.
I would also be glad to have you play Golspie with me (at the "guest of member" rate!).
David T.
-
Sounds like a great month.
If someone is going to Scotland for a week, they should play at least a couple of lesser known courses. A month - you really should play a bunch. Golf outside of the big names is also pretty easy to turn up and get around quickly. So on your way up to Inverness, spend 2-3 hours at Boat of Garten - you'll be glad that you did.
And when you're around St. Andrews, missing Elie is borderline criminal.
Around Gullane, Kilspindie is a good suggestion, but so is a trip to Dunbar.
For many more ideas, read through Ran's Courses by Country and Sean Arble's UK tours.
Less famous courses will provide as many good memories as the big names, and quite possibly more.
-
If you head out east to play Cullen, I highly recommend stopping to play 9 at Covesea. It very much has a Sweetens Cove feeling for me, where you're just hitting fun shots in what seems like someone's back yard. The views are great, there are a lot of fun and weird holes. It's a memorable, cheap, and easy to access.
-
Given Turnberry was cited as perhaps too expensive...
tells me that value is somewhat important to you.
Nearly every course you listed will be quite expensive, (with the possible exception of Golspie and Brora)
I would seriously take the above advice and see a few less famous courses.(especially this year with sooooo many tourists using 2020-2020 backlog rounds)
A search here on GCA will reveal many gems(if you can wade through the search function)
For example:Head north along the Coast road from Aberdeen to Castle Stuart-along the way you will encounter 10-15 courses that are excellent, authentic,loca,and uncrowded, and will spend about the same $$ on your 12 rounds as your round at Castle Stuart and Kingsbarn combined.
You'll have a far better time, play arguably better golf and meet locals, not over logoed-sweater vested box tickers flying in choppers and staying in Castles.
Another example:Pass on Turnberry and Troon and use the $$$$ to play Prestwick St Nicholas,Glasgow Gailes, West Kilbride etc. and take the ferry over to Arran and play Shiskine, Corrie etc., then onto Machrihanish,Carradale, Machrahanish Dunes,and Dunaverty.
here's another resource I often usehttps://www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-courses/britain-ireland
Enjoy-there are many, many gems to be had,no need to hang out with CEOs and pay full and crazy retail $$$ when much better options and experiences abound.
Jeff,
Thanks for the feedback. I wouldn't be playing Castle Stuart if my host family weren't members out there! But yes, value is somewhat important to me as I just graduated and will be trying to do this as inexpensively as possible.
This type of post is what I was looking for! These local, not as famous courses, is what I needed more info on. Thanks for that Coast Road and west coast info. Hopefully I can make it across on the ferry also.
Thanks!
-
Walker, while you're in East Lothian I would recommend including The Glen Golf Club, North Berwick's East Links, with your loop around the West Links, The Glen isn't as good as OG NB, but it's just a few blocks away and it's a lot of fun. Congrats, enjoy your trip and tell your dad I say hello.
Noted, I did want to get out to Glen. He says hello!
-
Congratulations Walker!
I spent a week at St. Andrews after graduating from law school and the trip yielded memories for a lifetime. I think you could arrive with no plan and have a great experience.
As others have stated, you will enjoy those smaller courses as much as anything you play. Near St. Andrews I have played Crail, Elie, Lundin Links and Ladybank. All are worth a visit but Ladybank becomes a good option after you have been beaten up by links winds for awhile. You could peruse threads from 2019 Buda and the Buda at Lundin Links to see some of the itineraries people cooked up on those outings. THe people who have weighed in here have years of experience so take the advice to heart.
You may need to get in line to play the Old Course. I am probably 0 for 10 on the ballot so do not be surprised if that option does not work - particularly in September when there seem to be a lot of R&A member events and diminishing daylight. There is a No Laying Up video about the line process.
I would also spend time simply wandering around the various towns where you stay to simply soak up the atmosphere. Try to get away from the hoardes of golf tourists and try to see some of the actual country you are visiting.
-
Sounds like a great month.
If someone is going to Scotland for a week, they should play at least a couple of lesser known courses. A month - you really should play a bunch. Golf outside of the big names is also pretty easy to turn up and get around quickly. So on your way up to Inverness, spend 2-3 hours at Boat of Garten - you'll be glad that you did.
And when you're around St. Andrews, missing Elie is borderline criminal.
Around Gullane, Kilspindie is a good suggestion, but so is a trip to Dunbar.
For many more ideas, read through Ran's Courses by Country and Sean Arble's UK tours.
Less famous courses will provide as many good memories as the big names, and quite possibly more.
I'll make sure to see the Boat of Garten and fill you in. I don't wish to commit a crime, so I will see Elie.
I have also heard good things about Kilspindie.
Thanks a lot!
-
Given the length of your trip, I would consider spending half a day playing one of the parkland courses in Edinburgh. Not because there are any world-class parkland courses (there aren't), and not because they're as "good" as the links courses (they aren't), but because you'll have a very unique experience compared to the rest of the trip. My sense from when I was a student in Scotland is that a lot of Edinburgh-area residents play their golf on such courses, and seeing that part of the golfing culture was interesting to me.
-
Congrats and sounds like an amazing trip. DO NOT miss Turnberry. It is worth the price and maybe be the best course in Scotland. Certainly in the top 4 for sure with TOC, Dornoch and Muirfield.
-
Walker,
I’ll be in Golspie Sept 4-8 and can provide play at member rates. I’ll also be there from the 28 th till October 8. If this helps, message me.
Regards,
Steve Wilson
-
It's not clear who you'll be in St Andrews with but i don't believe a single can enter the ballot?
Just set you alarm EARLY and you'll get on. Good luck with the trip.
-
...
Anyway I'd also recommend Elie and Crail.
Make sure you bring your good britches to Elie. ;)
-
...
Royal Dornoch (my dad's favorite course! We have this scheduled together)
...
Golspie
Brora
...
What??? You are playing Dornoch, Golspie, and Brora, but not Tarbat?!?!? :o
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,70648.0.html ;)
-
You might look at https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66070.msg1576958.html#msg1576958 for Scottish golf by train.
However, trains won't get you everywhere. So checking out the buses is a good idea. (You need a bus to get to Tarbat and to Fortrose & Rosemarkie, etc.
-
When are you going to be in St Andrews, Walker? I’m up there myself for some of September.
I’d echo the comments about trying for the singles queue rather than the ballot for TOC. Also, I’m not sure what your budget is but you’d be paying £350 for Kingsbarns against a fraction of that for any of Elie (not to be missed!), Crail, the Jubilee, the Eden, Lundin, Leven… it’s a long list!
-
While I'm in Inverness I'm planning on playing:
Royal Dornoch (my dad's favorite course! We have this scheduled together)
Nairn
Golspie
Brora
Castle Stuart
Aberdeen area:
Royal Aberdeen
Murcar
Cruden Bay
St. Andrews area:
Old Course (will enter the ballot most days I am near)
New Course
Kingsbarns
Near Edinburgh:
North Berwick (can't wait)
Gullane (I don't really know which are the ones are worth seeing, I think there are 3 courses)
Muirfield (don't know if I can pull this one off this time)
Musselburgh
West Coast:
Western Gailes
Prestwick
Royal Troon
Turnberry (seems too expensive for me this time around)
If I am missing anything I need to see chime in and let me know! And if anyone is in Scotland and wants to tee it up for a round, I'd love to join! Thanks guys I look forward to the advice.
Just added-up the collective greenfees at these courses. Yikes, just a few ££££! Oh well, you only live once.
Atb
-
The thing to note about Crail is there are two courses there. In our Fife trip, Crail Balcomie was my HS buddy's favorite course, and Crail Craighead was my son's favorite.
Also, having lunch in the clubhouse on the point between rounds with the great view was a highlight.
-
Given the length of your trip, I would consider spending half a day playing one of the parkland courses in Edinburgh. Not because there are any world-class parkland courses (there aren't), and not because they're as "good" as the links courses (they aren't), but because you'll have a very unique experience compared to the rest of the trip. My sense from when I was a student in Scotland is that a lot of Edinburgh-area residents play their golf on such courses, and seeing that part of the golfing culture was interesting to me.
This is really interesting advice you don't hear often. I may look into getting out to one or two of them to mix it up!
Which courses should I look into? Thanks!
-
While I'm in Inverness I'm planning on playing:
Royal Dornoch (my dad's favorite course! We have this scheduled together)
Nairn
Golspie
Brora
Castle Stuart
Aberdeen area:
Royal Aberdeen
Murcar
Cruden Bay
St. Andrews area:
Old Course (will enter the ballot most days I am near)
New Course
Kingsbarns
Near Edinburgh:
North Berwick (can't wait)
Gullane (I don't really know which are the ones are worth seeing, I think there are 3 courses)
Muirfield (don't know if I can pull this one off this time)
Musselburgh
West Coast:
Western Gailes
Prestwick
Royal Troon
Turnberry (seems too expensive for me this time around)
If I am missing anything I need to see chime in and let me know! And if anyone is in Scotland and wants to tee it up for a round, I'd love to join! Thanks guys I look forward to the advice.
Just added-up the collective greenfees at these courses. Yikes, just a few ££££! Oh well, you only live once.
Atb
Haha- Most of those big money courses mentioned I am only able to pull off due to a member hosting me or my fathers industry rate. Or else I wouldn't consider them at all. But yes I do only live once and I am going to make the most of my first trip over!
Thanks!
-
You might look at https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66070.msg1576958.html#msg1576958 (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,66070.msg1576958.html#msg1576958) for Scottish golf by train.
However, trains won't get you everywhere. So checking out the buses is a good idea. (You need a bus to get to Tarbat and to Fortrose & Rosemarkie, etc.
This is very helpful. Thank you!
-
Walker,
Congrats on your graduation. And I am envious that you have lots of years ahead of you for trips to Scotland. Having said that, I fully endorse the recommendations to play Elie, Crail Balcomie, and Kilspindie. I would regret not playing them and have no such view about Castle Stuart or Kingsbarns (and my view is not particularly colored (no pun intended) by the green fee.
I also recommend bringing A Course Called Scotland (by the very same author that is the host of the podcast in another thread re Tom Doak) as companion reading.
Enjoy a great graduation trip.
Ira
-
Walker -
I bet a good old boy like yourself can hit it a long way. I admire your ambition and itinerary, and I urge you to play the "A" courses while you can enjoy them and before the prices double again in five years. When you are old and carry the ball 160 yards and can't walk uphill and want to be left alone, head over to the dreaded Kilspindie.
I'll be over there for a couple of weeks next month. Perhaps our paths will cross.
PS - Golf course architecture is an interesting topic but one that is generally more suited to magazine articles, discussion board posts, and pretty pictures than books.
-
Michael Moore is spot on. Go big and save the wee gems for your old age.
Oh, and take an Auburn bumper sticker for your rental car - that way you can park in the handicap spaces.
Enjoy every minute.
-
After the 10th September the one and only day in September there will be a ballot and a queue for the Old Course is Saturday 24th.
-
Congrats, please share pics and thoughts from your trip!
-
Just added-up the collective greenfees at these courses. Yikes, just a few ££££! Oh well, you only live once.
Atb
I've been going to Scotland since 1991. I have paid as much as $2.05 for a GBP and as little as $1.35. Currently the rate is little more than $1.18. It could go down even more, but I would take advantage of this opportunity and go as big as you can. I used to cut corners on accommodation and dining so I could play more golf. Get as much stuff from the courses as you can bring home. I hope you have a great trip, enjoy every step of golf, make some friends over there, and have memories for a lifetime.[size=78%] [/size]
-
It's not clear who you'll be in St Andrews with but i don't believe a single can enter the ballot?
Just set you alarm EARLY and you'll get on. Good luck with the trip.
I think there is a ballot buddy website which helps connect singles so they can enter the ballot.
I'll echo the sentiments for Covesea and Elie. I would add Musselburgh and perhaps a hilltop course such as Pitlochry and it goes without saying... Gleneagles should be considered.
Ciao
-
A few people mentioned sharing so I thought I would fill everyone in on my travels so far!
I spent my first two days exploring Edinburgh and Glasgow.
My first round of golf was a quick 36 holes around the Bruntsfield Links with two University of Edinburgh students. We had a great time and went to the Golf Tavern for a pint afterwards, which claims to be established in 1456!
My first round of golf was at Royal Troon on Monday. This was also my first round of links golf. While I did enjoy the round and company, it didn't feel as linksy as I thought golf over here should. Apparently, it was greener than usual and someone said the west coast is usually wetter than the east coast is and that obviously affects the turf. The weather was high 60s and sunny! The first few holes are a little bit uneventful, but it takes you out to where all the great stuff is. The middle part of the course is so strong. I loved the stretch from 6-12. The tee shot on 7 and the blind one on 10 are thrilling. The Postage Stamp is famous for a reason! During the round I told my host that I read a good bit of Robert Burns to prepare for the trip. After the round he drove me around Ayr to Burn's childhood home and went to the Brig O' Doon down the road. I definitely got the full experience!
I played Barassie Links on Wednesday right down the road from Royal Troon. We had a fun time playing out here. I thought the first few holes were very solid but the club wanted a nine hole course as well, so they tweaked so much of the original layout and removed holes here and added newer holes there. At the end of the day the new nine hole course was created and the original course has suffered from its existence.
My next round was at The Old Course. This was such a special day. I was able to get a tee time at 1:30 and it was a perfect day. It is everything I imagined it would be. It is a course that is hard to explain until you play it. I wish I could play it every day so I could appreciate it more and more. I thought the crossing of 7 and 11 was so fascinating and I loved holes like 2, 7, 9, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18. A birdie on 18 is always fun!
I played North Berwick the next day. We were the first ones off at 7:30 in the morning. It was raining and probably high 50's and unbelievably windy. I've never played anywhere in the states where I set up to a putt and the ball starts to wobble in its place. That course is so cool. You don't think it can get better than it does and then you get onto the back nine and it seems to get better every hole. This golf is not like anything I'm used to at home. And I love that. This is the course you picture in your mind when you think of links golf. I tried haggis and black pudding for the first time after my round. I have always been an avid coffee drinker, but now I am a tea drinker too.
The next day I went to Edinburgh and saw the procession on the Royal Mile for the Queen. It was such a neat experience. Obviously a monumental time for the United Kingdom and so interesting that I came during all of this change.
Yesterday, taking someone's advice, I played Glenbervie. A James Braid parkland layout in Larbert. I wasn't expecting to enjoy this course as much as I did. Being in Scotland I thought I would dislike anything that wasn't a links course, but I thought this course was awesome! It still played quite firm and fast from tee to green. And the greens were so wild. I really enjoyed this place.
My dad gets into Edinburgh from Tampa tomorrow. He came to Scotland in 1997 and hasn't been back here since. We are going back to North Berwick, a place he never got to see then and a place I haven't stopped thinking of since last Friday. We'll quickly shoot across to the west to play Prestwick and Western Gailes, then we'll trek north.
-
Yesterday, taking someone's advice, I played Glenbervie. A James Braid parkland layout in Larbert. I wasn't expecting to enjoy this course as much as I did. Being in Scotland I thought I would dislike anything that wasn't a links course, but I thought this course was awesome! It still played quite firm and fast from tee to green. And the greens were so wild. I really enjoyed this place.
Great report.
Nice to hear about Glenbervie. It was one of the sites for Senior Open Qualifying.
James Braid...should've known....