Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: mike_malone on June 09, 2022, 10:05:40 AM
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The cannon start is nice.
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I was curious enough to see if it was available in US, but apparently not. Not on cable at least.
So, a true shotgun start, huh? Interesting. . .
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Available live in the U.S. on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-exyLWw5pq8
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On Liv’s site.
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Mickelson needs to cut off the stubble on his face, he looks terrible. Why he is growing a beard is beyond me.
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I was really hoping for something different than a Poor Mans PGA Tour :(
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"Poor Man's"? Oh the irony here on GCA...
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I suppose it’s stupid, but I feel I’d need a shower after I watched.
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Mickelson needs to cut off the stubble on his face, he looks terrible. Why he is growing a beard is beyond me.
Maybe it's an Arab thing ;D
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Watch (livgolf.com) (https://www.livgolf.com/watch)
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Couldn't find it by looking up the "Stihl Chainsaw Khashoggi Memorial Jamboree". ::)
Getting in bed with the murderous Saudi regime and the treasonous former president of the United States is bad...no...evil juju.
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Watched it a bit. Complete snoozefest.
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Su-Ann is not happy with the temperature LOL
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Saudi money aside, I actually think they are doing a lot of interesting things.
I think there are going to be a ton more guys who take the money and join in Portland. Now that they've seen that the Majors aren't going to blackball players who play in LIV events, why wouldn't they take guaranteed money and a more relaxed schedule?
Let's be honest, 80% of PGA Tour events are super boring to watch and could benefit from some extra formatting. And winning all but ~4 non major event do nothing for a player's "legacy".
The PGA Tour's letter this morning was straight out of the Onion. Mocking players for only thinking about money when the Commissioner makes what, $10mln a year...running a "nonprofit" that just built some massive shrine HQ for itself? ::) ::)
So, while I was really skeptical a couple of months ago, I actually think this might have some legs.
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I had to turn it on just to see how the coverage is.......so far so good - I missed the cannon - Damn It!
The coverage and commentary reminds me more of the BBC covering The Open rather than US tv covering a Tour event.
Given this is their 1st go - passing grade +.
I have no illusions regarding the backers; there are far bigger problems in the world than oil money financing things.
If I believed it a good investment I would purchase oil stocks, shares in adult beverage companies, cigarette companies, green technology, auto makers, META, etc. Never was much of a social investment stalwart.
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I think there are going to be a ton more guys who take the money and join in Portland. Now that they've seen that the Majors aren't going to blackball players who play in LIV events, why wouldn't they take guaranteed money and a more relaxed schedule?
You don't know that "the majors" (all of them) aren't going to. The PGA and the Masters still could, and the U.S. Open could next year.
The PGA Tour's letter this morning was straight out of the Onion. Mocking players for only thinking about money when the Commissioner makes what, $10mln a year...running a "nonprofit" that just built some massive shrine HQ for itself? ::) ::)
It was bad, but at the same time… Commissioners make a lot of money.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/roger-goodells-astronomical-pay-revealed-nfl-commissioner-topped-125-million-over-past-two-years-combined/ (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/roger-goodells-astronomical-pay-revealed-nfl-commissioner-topped-125-million-over-past-two-years-combined/)
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As far as the majors go--Some players qualify as past champs, etc. But more get in from the World Ranking Points. Let's see how that shakes out for these events. May be much tougher for the average player to get into the majors.
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The vast majority of players play for cash and not history. I’m sure a lot of single major guys would have gladly traded it for an 8 or 9 digit payout. Even more non major winners would happily take the money without the uncertainty of needing that one good week to lock in some legacy with a good cash out.
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Not watching, not really interested, but I am wondering if He Hate Me is in the field.
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S L O W. Sixteen three-balls in the field and they took 4:48, or thereabouts. If they want to liven up golf, at least get it into secon d gear.
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It didn’t seem like it was very well watched; YouTube said 97K watching when I signed in halfway through. The telecast is OK. Overall it felt like watching the European tour on any Thursday morning. I don’t think it’s a great look that half of the field is at +3 or worse. Maybe it’s just a really strong test of golf over there, but ultimately there just aren’t that many of the world’s best players there at the moment. It certainly doesn’t make sense to make a judgment on some thing one day into the first event, but just watching today it was a hard to see anything special about it other than the amount of money they’re playing for. The team component comes across as very silly in my opinion.
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S L O W. Sixteen three-balls in the field and they took 4:48, or thereabouts. If they want to liven up golf, at least get it into secon d gear.
Yeah, if they want to truly innovate… make the rounds 4:00 with penalty shots if you take longer than that. Plus, imagine the drama if one group of non-counting scorers holds up another group so that their team can win the team component. :)
Every partial five minutes you're over four hours is two strokes. 4:00:01? Two strokes. 4:05:35? Four strokes. Get your butts in gear.
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and it should be LIV, which is roman numerals for 54, the number of holes played. By the way, since it is Saudi Arabia money, why aren't they using (western) arabic numbers, or require the players to record their scores using roman numerals ;D
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Let's be honest, 80% of PGA Tour events are super boring to watch and could benefit from some extra formatting. And winning all but ~4 non major event do nothing for a player's "legacy".
I agree that most PGA Tour events are pretty boring, but the problem I have is that the LIV format seems even worse -- especially since there's no real pressure. They're basically playing in exhibitions; they've already gotten their money.
They'd have to start playing on excellent courses to get me to watch unless they do something more interesting with the format.
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I didn't and won't watch but wondered if they are letting players wear shorts. I have always thought that was a dumb rule. Since honor has gone out the window, do the players still have to keep their own score and sign scorecards? ::)
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Remember back when the golf world was enthralled by the chance a chubby Canuck might win his country’s Open. Did he ever win?
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and it should be LIV, which is roman numerals for 54, the number of holes played. By the way, since it is Saudi Arabia money, why aren't they using (western) arabic numbers, or require the players to record their scores using roman numerals ;D
I do that sometimes. I put an X on my card!
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Remember back when the golf world was enthralled by the chance a chubby Canuck might win his country’s Open. Did he ever win?
Moe Norman?
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Remember back when the golf world was enthralled by the chance a chubby Canuck might win his country’s Open. Did he ever win?
Moe Norman?
I believe it was Dave Barr.
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Remember back when the golf world was enthralled by the chance a chubby Canuck might win his country’s Open. Did he ever win?
Moe Norman?
I believe it was Dave Barr.
Barr almost won your country’s Open, not his country’s Open. 1985 US Open at Oakland Hills. Mike Weir almost won the Canadian Open in 2004, he lost in a playoff to Vijay.
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8) SEEMS LIKE ALL THOSE WHO PARTICIPATE IN SHOTGUN TOONAMINTS WILL RELATE... AND AREN'T THE PGA VENUES GENERALLY MANIPULATED TO MAKE THE FIELD LOOK GOOD OR BAD, THE LATTER DEALING WITH THE CUT...
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I guess i'm more interested in the longer game implications:
1) Will non-established players be fine with not getting into majors or not playing bigger Tour events like Jacks tourney?
2) Will better players be tempted to go back to the Tour once their major exemptions run out?
3) Will the Saudis be OK with taking indefinite losses? (I don't see how they will recoup anywhere near some of these alleged signing bonus amounts.)
4) What kind of sponsorship, TV Deals can they make. Certainly YouTube events are not the future...
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Kalen--Those are the key questions--and I'd add two more--
5) Will the OWGR count these LIV tournaments for world ranking points?
6) What will the Tours do when LIV players try to rejoin the established tours?
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What about those guys at the bottom of the PGA and Korn Ferry Tours. 10 worse golfers will earn their card next year. In ten years that’s 100 golfers. Tic Tok the tour is dead.
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5) Will the OWGR count these LIV tournaments for world ranking points?
I think this is almost a moot point. Even if they do get ranking points, there won't be many available -- small fields without many highly ranked players -- and they only have 8 events. There's really no scenario in which these players don't quickly fall down the OWGR with those limitations.
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What about those guys at the bottom of the PGA and Korn Ferry Tours. 10 worse golfers will earn their card next year. In ten years that’s 100 golfers. Tic Tok the tour is dead.
Maybe you’ll learn there are a hell of a lot of good to great players out there who just needed a chance.
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What about those guys at the bottom of the PGA and Korn Ferry Tours. 10 worse golfers will earn their card next year. In ten years that’s 100 golfers. Tic Tok the tour is dead.
Maybe you’ll learn there are a hell of a lot of good to great players out there who just needed a chance.
Stars become stars by winning. I've covered two major league splits: NHL vs. WHA and USAC vs. CART, which evolved into CART/Champ Car vs. IRL. Stars came out of both rogue groups (Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier in the WHA, Tony Stewart out of the IRL).
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Stars become stars by winning. I've covered two major league splits: NHL vs. WHA and USAC vs. CART, which evolved into CART/Champ Car vs. IRL. Stars came out of both rogue groups (Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier in the WHA, Tony Stewart out of the IRL).
Yet another North American comparison point misser.
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Stars become stars by winning. I've covered two major league splits: NHL vs. WHA and USAC vs. CART, which evolved into CART/Champ Car vs. IRL. Stars came out of both rogue groups (Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier in the WHA, Tony Stewart out of the IRL).
Yet another North American comparison point misser.
Feel free to explain how.
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I just finished watching on YouTube. Coming in with an open mind and limited expectations, I was very impressed with the telecast. What struck me was the almost continuous showing of golf shots. As one who watches golf to see golf shots, I’d like to see the comparison of shots shown per hour between LIV and PGA Tour. I’d bet that LIV had at least 3X the number of shots covered. No commercial breaks, no fluff segments, no announcer babble, no 5 minutes wasted as the sponsor CEO said how glad his company was to dump money on the event and how great the course, weather, and fans were. No minutes wasted as players paced around the fairway, stalked putts, stood across putt lines, read yardage books, or had long discussions with caddies. No long musical lead-ins or taped segments on the local area. Watching the packed progression of golf shots of all kinds, good and bad, was enjoyable. PGA television can learn a lot in this area.
On the negative side, regardless of how much the announcers played it up, the team competition was a non event and added nothing to interest in the telecast. Zero interest. I can’t imagine team competition remaining very long.
Other notes. Shot tracking was used overly sparingly. The leader board “pylon” was useful. Drone shots used were helpful, as was the “player tracker” which showed where members of the threesome were located on the hole from above. The announcers held back on chatter, allowing the video to account for itself. Honest comments on shots, both good and bad. No making excuses for the players. Background sound was well managed, with no idiots yelling “bababoey”, “mashed potato” or “get in the hole” after every shot. Lack of commercial interruptions was a joy, but I assume that they’ll creep in after TV contracts are in place..
I’m sure the LIV haters will find faults, but I’ll watch LIV over the standard Tour broadcast any day.
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Would you be willing to pay to watch the show? Because, if not, you really have no standing to complain about commercials on free tv.
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Dave, I agree. A well-produced telecast that improved each day. LIV's TV advisor/consultant is David Hill, who created Fox Sports out of nothing, and the producer is Steve Biem, an old Fox hand who worked on some of their USGA shows, which improved year-to-year.
The only beef is the excess licking of the LIV's hind end. Too much promotion – no need, we're already watching. Su-Ann was all right on course reporting but doesn't know how to ask a question. Someone else is needed in that role. And Jerry Foltz diminishes his reputation by saying things like the fans love Patrick Reed. Uh, no.
Now, once they figure out how to improve the names on the leader board pylon, they'll have something.
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Was there a blimp?
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Would you be willing to pay to watch the show? Because, if not, you really have no standing to complain about commercials on free tv.
I already pay to watch the Golf channel and networks on cable & satellite....AND I get hit with commercials.
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Feel free to explain how.
Geezo, is it not obvious?
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Feel free to explain how.
Geezo, is it not obvious?
There are so many things to pick from with LIV Golf. Not sure which one(s) you're most opposed to. They may match mine or differ.
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5) Will the OWGR count these LIV tournaments for world ranking points?
I think this is almost a moot point. Even if they do get ranking points, there won't be many available -- small fields without many highly ranked players -- and they only have 8 events. There's really no scenario in which these players don't quickly fall down the OWGR with those limitations.
Didn't I read somewhere that a new tour has to demonstrate viability for a year before the OWGR will consider awarding points for their events? Will the LIV guys be willing to lose their standing/qualification for majors next season??
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The one-year proof, so to speak, is the standard procedure. Of course, with the tours LIV is plucking players from on the board that controls the rankings, it might as well be a millennium.
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The one-year proof, so to speak, is the standard procedure. Of course, with the tours LIV is plucking players from on the board that controls the rankings, it might as well be a millennium.
And to add to the sense of unreality / artificiality of this whole house of cards, wasn't it super-agent Mark McCormack who started the 'unofficial' world rankings in the 60s, mostly to market and promote and make more money for the Big Three stars he represented, ie Jack, Arnie and Gary? If memory serves he maintained those rankings until the mid 80s, when somehow, remarkably, they soon afterwards became the 'official world rankings'! I was going to say, "You can't make this stuff up" -- but actually, you obviously *can* :)
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Mark started the ranking as a feature of his annual series, "The World of Professional Golf." The first year was 1968, and he had Nicklaus, Player, Casper, Palmer and Charles as the top 5. The "official" ranking started in 1986, the R&A and McCormack coming up with a formula. It was originally sponsored by Sony, a sponsorship I'm sure McCormack helped arrange. The PGA Tour got onboard in 1997.
During COVID, some tournaments awarded ranking points even though they were part of tours that hadn't passed the one-year proof, such as the Forme Tour. That could be an argument for LIV Golf to get instant status.
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Does anyone understand the relationship with the Asian Tour through the ownership stake and how that impacts invitations to the WGC events? I've been wondering if a possible end state of all this is the LIV players becoming Asian Tour members and then ultimately having some Asian Tour events conveniently located in the weeks before/after LIV events.