Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Philip Caccamise on May 24, 2022, 08:59:22 PM
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Is anyone aware of a complete list of "template" courses in North America? Working on a personal checklist/science project.
If not, should we start one?
*Working List*
CT - Fairfield
CT - Hotchkiss
CT - Keney Park
CT - Tamarack
CT - Yale
FL - Everglades?
FL - Golden Ocala
FL - Mountain Lake
GA - Bears Best (Replica)
HI - Wailae
IL - Chicago
IL - Shoreacres
LA - Metairie
MA - Dedham Polo Club
MD - Elkridge
MD - Renditions
MN - Midland Hills
MN - Somerset
MO - St. Louis
NJ - Architects
NJ - Essex County
NJ - Forsgate (Banks)
NJ - Francis Byrne
NJ - Rock Spring Club
NJ - Hackensack CC
NJ - Knoll (West)
NJ - Montclair
NJ - Morris County
NJ - Watchung Valley?
NV - Bears Best (Replica)
NV - Royal Links (Replica - NLE)
NY - Blind Brook
NY - Creek Club
NY - Fisher's Island
NY - Knollwood
NY - National Golf Links
NY - North Shore?
NY - Piping Rock
NY - Sleepy Hollow
NY - Southampton
NY - St. Georges?
NY - Stonebridge
NY - Sunningdale?
NY - Westhampton
NY - Whippoorwhirl
OH - Camargo
ON - Wooden Sticks
OR - Old Macdonald
PA - Fox Chapel
RI - Wanumetonomy G & CC
SC - CC of Charleston
SC - Charleston Muni
SC - World 18 (Replica)
SC - Yeamans Hall
SC - Yeamans Hall
TN - Black Creek
TN - Lookout Mountain
TX - Tour 18 Houston (Replica)
TX - Tour 18 Dallas (Replica)
TX - Tribute (Replica)
WI - Blue Mound
WV - Greenbrier Old White
BER - Mid Ocean
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How would you define a template course?
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How would you define a template course?
Great question, and the answer is I don't know. I suppose 9+ holes of templates would be a place to start? The list of 18 templates is pretty short (about to grow by one though, hoping to make the GW trip for it :D )
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One that is almost never mentioned on here is Stonebridge on Long Island. Designed by George Bahto, who many here were very close with. I've never been but it looks interesting on Google Earth. Though it seems to be on an extremely tight property and has houses lining its interior.
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One that is almost never mentioned on here is Stonebridge on Long Island. Designed by George Bahto, who many here were very close with. I've never been but it looks interesting on Google Earth. Though it seems to be on an extremely tight property and has houses lining its interior.
Wow, good one. Never heard of it despite playing a lot of golf in that area. Looks cool- public and $39 bucks to boot!
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Forsgate CC- Banks Course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tNlMdTKzw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tNlMdTKzw)
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Would Tour18 be considered a template course? :)
https://www.tour18golf.com/
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One that gets almost no press outside of Maryland is Renditions GC in Anne Arundel County, MD
I’ve played it and it shows how difficult it is to transport one hole from one are to another.
https://www.renditionsgolf.com/golf-course/ (https://www.renditionsgolf.com/golf-course/)
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One that gets almost no press outside of Maryland is Renditions GC in Anne Arundel County, MD
I’ve played it and it shows how difficult it is to transport one hole from one are to another.
https://www.renditionsgolf.com/golf-course/ (https://www.renditionsgolf.com/golf-course/)
Never heard of it! Added to the list.
Would Tour18 be considered a template course? :)
https://www.tour18golf.com/ (https://www.tour18golf.com/)
I'd say yes? At the end of the day, isn't a "template" course really a "tribute" course?
(Why is one loved and one hated in GCA? ??? [size=78%])[/size]
Forsgate CC- Banks Course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tNlMdTKzw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tNlMdTKzw)
Love that course.
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One that gets almost no press outside of Maryland is Renditions GC in Anne Arundel County, MD
I’ve played it and it shows how difficult it is to transport one hole from one are to another.
https://www.renditionsgolf.com/golf-course/ (https://www.renditionsgolf.com/golf-course/)
Never heard of it! Added to the list.
Would Tour18 be considered a template course? :)
https://www.tour18golf.com/ (https://www.tour18golf.com/)
I'd say yes? At the end of the day, isn't a "template" course really a "tribute" course?
(Why is one loved and one hated in GCA? ??? [size=78%])[/size]
Forsgate CC- Banks Course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tNlMdTKzw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tNlMdTKzw)
Love that course.
It’s funny about how a course is accepted. I have played most of the original holes that Renditions has copied. I don’t think they resemble them very much but guys that have not played the originals come off the course thrilled to have had a chance to play “renditions” of famous holes. These courses do provide a service.
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One that gets almost no press outside of Maryland is Renditions GC in Anne Arundel County, MD
I’ve played it and it shows how difficult it is to transport one hole from one are to another.
https://www.renditionsgolf.com/golf-course/ (https://www.renditionsgolf.com/golf-course/)
Never heard of it! Added to the list.
Would Tour18 be considered a template course? :)
https://www.tour18golf.com/ (https://www.tour18golf.com/)
I'd say yes? At the end of the day, isn't a "template" course really a "tribute" course?
(Why is one loved and one hated in GCA? ??? [size=78%])[/size]
Forsgate CC- Banks Course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tNlMdTKzw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8tNlMdTKzw)
Love that course.
It’s funny about how a course is accepted. I have played most of the original holes that Renditions has copied. I don’t think they resemble them very much but guys that have not played the originals come off the course thrilled to have had a chance to play “renditions” of famous holes. These courses do provide a service.
I agree- perhaps it's because the replicas are often not all that great with those types of courses. The only two I've played of that type are World 18 in Myrtle Beach and (now NLE) Royal Links... Both were fun but I can't say the holes are all that accurate.
On the flip side, I couldn't be more excited for Lido- which is really the ultimate tribute course, no?
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Which templates? Only MacRaynor?
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Wooden Sticks Golf Course in Uxbridge, ON, a bit north of Toronto.
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Which templates? Only MacRaynor?
Any that apply, example Black Creek in TN is a Brian Silva but clearly a "template" golf course.
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I was referring to the use of MacRaynor templates. Many architects have their own "templates" or holes which they repeat from course to course. the somewhat unique aspect of MacRaynor is the unabashed attempt to replicate the strategy of classic holes created by other architects, known or unknown. Accordingly, I am trying to understand the scope of the question.
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Old Macdonald in Bandon,OR
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Certainly would not include Architect's in New jersey. Built "in the style of..." rather than specific copies of or template holes. It's good but falls out of the descriptions being discussed here.
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Blue Mound G & CC
Chicago GC
Dedham Polo Club
Yale GC
Tamarack CC
Essex County CC
Francis A Byrne GC
Fox Chapel GC
Mid Ocean Club
Morris County Club
St. Louis CC
CC of Charleston
CC of Fairfield
Wanumetonomy G & CC
Blind Brook Club
Southampton GC
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Jack Nicklaus did two "Bear's Best" courses, one in Las Vegas and one in Atlanta. Also, Ron Garl had a number of template/tribute holes at Golden Ocala.
-Keith
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"The Tribute" course in The Colony (north of Dallas) TX is a wonderful collection of well known holes from Scotland / Ireland - including Road, Cape, 1 & 18 Old Course, Postage Stamp, etc. One of my favorite places to play in the DFW area. I have played most of them in their original location and fine them (in my limited knowledge) to be pretty close to the real thing. The Valley of Sin is right there front left of #18.
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Since you are using some Raynor courses you might want to add Somerset in MN.
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Funny that in a state known for Hollywood remakes there are no template courses in California. You would think that Palm Springs or San Diego would be a great destination for one with all the vacation traffic.
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Contentment, eventually, I hope.
WW
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Replica courses are different from templates, I would list them separately.
Replicas are trying to replicate on a different piece of ground - usually far from great.
Templates use a familiar format to fit on a unique piece of ground - better results depending on the designer.
The new Lido would be a replica of a template.
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The new Lido would be a replica of a template.
I guess. One of the odd parts of it is that, since we are using the plasticine model made for the course as a reference, we're kind of using the same source material that the original contractor(s) did.
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Replica courses are different from templates, I would list them separately.
Replicas are trying to replicate on a different piece of ground - usually far from great.
Templates use a familiar format to fit on a unique piece of ground - better results depending on the designer.
The new Lido would be a replica of a template.
Noted and agreed. This is a great way to differentiate and probably the answer to our previous posts on replicas.
I'll categorize as such.
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The new Lido would be a replica of a template.
I guess. One of the odd parts of it is that, since we are using the plasticine model made for the course as a reference, we're kind of using the same source material that the original contractor(s) did.
That's so incredible combined with Peter's work. As I said above, I'm so excited to see it.
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Sleepy Hollow in WestchesterNY. Whippoorwill (Banks/Ross) has some very cool template holes. beautiful Biarritz amongst others.
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Two you “could” add:
Lake Wales CC- designed by Seth Raynor (died during construction) this public course used to have MacRaynor’s Ideal Holes, but today they have disappeared. That being said, all but one hole sit in the same location so a restoration is possible.
Augusta National- While not a MacRaynor the majority of holes are in fact “ideal” holes and many of them were similar to that of MacRaynor’s. Most do not play like their historical inspirations, but the thought process and play existed in the beginning.
Just a thought. Maybe add them with a * :)
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Two you “could” add:
Lake Wales CC- designed by Seth Raynor (died during construction) this public course used to have MacRaynor’s Ideal Holes, but today they have disappeared. That being said, all but one hole sit in the same location so a restoration is possible.
Augusta National- While not a MacRaynor the majority of holes are in fact “ideal” holes and many of them were similar to that of MacRaynor’s. Most do not play like their historical inspirations, but the thought process and play existed in the beginning.
Just a thought. Maybe add them with a * :)
Very interesting recommendations and I think part of my exercise here is to see how much influence "ideal" or "template" holes have had on traditional "non-template" golf courses. My opinion is so many courses have been influenced by these designs, even if they are not intended to be... because they're great golf holes that are incredibly fun to play.
Great example would be #4 at my current home course, Arroyo Trabuco in Mission Viejo, CA, designed by Tom Lehman. It's not labeled as a Redan, but it's a Redan (albeit with a design-flawed left third of the green that doesn't complete the funnel properly.)