Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Bob_Garvelink on March 15, 2022, 10:09:12 AM
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I was pleased to get an email from SV today stating that Sedge Valley will be the 4th course at SV and plans to open around 2024.
I am most excited as I am not a long hitter and it sounds like this thing will not be 7000 yards from the tips :)
Looking forward to hear more about this project
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For those who did not receive the email, here is more info:
https://sandvalley.com/sedge-valley/?nck=SedgeValley&mc_cid=56c77c9ce7&mc_eid=c2b9a98088
Between the Lido, this course and the other two, i have heard that real estate has been very hot up there with people buying 10+ acre plots at eye-watering prices for middle of the woods, central Wisconsin.
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Sounds great but I’m not sure about the accuracy of the captioning of the “inspiration” photos. The 1st at Berkshire Red?
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You nailed one, it seems.
https://www.theberkshire.co.uk/hole_1_red (https://www.theberkshire.co.uk/hole_1_red)
That green does not look like the one on this page.
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Is it the 1st at St George’s Hill? That was my immediate thought but the bunkers are different to those in the photos on the SGH website. Were they redone recently?
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Is it the 1st at St George’s Hill? That was my immediate thought but the bunkers are different to those in the photos on the SGH website. Were they redone recently?
Yes it is, and yes they were -- the whole green complex was rebuilt by Tim Lobb five or so years ago. It wasn't an original Colt green -- that had been higher up on the hill to the right -- and was built by Hawtree and Taylor, I think in the Twenties, but it either had or had acquired a slight bowled quality so didn't drain properly.
The photo that is captioned as the eleventh at SGH isn't that either.
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Geez, no wonder TD isn't able to post much these days. He's an Uber busy boy. I don't know how many current and future projects he has, but it looks as though he'll be spending a lot of time in Wisconsin the next few years. Fortunately, it's a puddle jumper or ferry ride away from Traverse City.
Congrats, Tom on being selected to design this course! I think I'll hold off taking a trip to SV until your work at Sedge is done. Hopefully, by then, the crush of people wanting to play the Lido will have subsided somewhat, but probably not. LOL!
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Hallelujah!
A modern design on a sandy site that won’t be surrounded by huge swathes of open sand areas.
I continue to think that the Renaissance team have been the most versatile of the New Alive Guys in their design aesthetic, even though there are many consistencies (not meant negatively) with each design.
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Is it the 1st at St George’s Hill?
The photo that is captioned as the eleventh at SGH isn't that either.
It's the 8th on the Green Nine.
Actually shocked that they didn't get this right. Still...very excited!!!
Cheers
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Tom is pretty active on his Instagram account. Seems to be the way of the world.
Some new marketing blood at SV. They must be ramping up for phase two of the Wisconsin Explosion. So much room, they have.
What I loved about the area from last summer is, you leave the resort and it's as if the resort is not even there. The world around SV continues at its pace. I love doing the same at Bandon.
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Hallelujah!
A modern design on a sandy site that won’t be surrounded by huge swathes of open sand areas.
I continue to think that the Renaissance team have been the most versatile of the New Alive Guys in their design aesthetic, even though there are many consistencies (not meant negatively) with each design.
What firm can match the versatility of Pacific Dunes, CommonGround, Rawls, Cape Kidnappers, Rock Creek Cattle Company, St. Patricks, Stone Eagle, Memorial Park, etc?
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Sedge Valley is the course to which I have been awaiting with the most eagerness. We had the pleasure of playing Swinley Forest, St. George’s Hill, and Woking on consecutive days a few years ago. One of the finest stretches of golf we have enjoyed. Tom set a very high bar himself, and I look forward to seeing the results of him exceeding it.
Ira
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Is there a course planned beyond Sedge Valley? What a resort lineup this is turning out to be:
- Sand Valley
- Mammoth Dunes
- Sandbox
- Sedge Valley
- ?
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Don’t forget The Lido
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I think that The Lido is going to drop jaws in that inconceivable-Princess-Bride way.
I think that Sedge Valley is going to be the favorite of many golfers.
I think that Mammoth and OG will continue to enchant.
I think that Sandbox is the best place for drunken golfers to end the day.
I think that at least two more courses will be built, including one whose routing and makeup we have not even considered. It will be groundbreaking and will cause us to comment I can't believe that I never considered a golf course like that.
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I spent a few hours with Clark Willard from SV yesterday perusing a massive hickory golf club collection that was acquired from Texas. He was hunting for sets for SV golfers to use and we must have pieced together 20+ sets/ groupings He'll re-pin them, re-shaft them where needed, regrip them, etc. I could see these getting a lot of action on the Sand Box especially. But I'm especially interested in getting a feel for how the Lido plays from the original tees with this equipment. There are a few accounts of specific shots being hit in tournaments that would be fun to try to pull off.
(https://i.imgur.com/gsSdcCFl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NA9tbVal.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BqKbZHVl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uhn2uq2l.jpg)
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I think that The Lido is going to drop jaws in that inconceivable-Princess-Bride way.
I think that Sedge Valley is going to be the favorite of many golfers.
I think that Mammoth and OG will continue to enchant.
I think that Sandbox is the best place for drunken golfers to end the day.
I think that at least two more courses will be built, including one whose routing and makeup we have not even considered. It will be groundbreaking and will cause us to comment I can't believe that I never considered a golf course like that.
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Agree with Ron Montesano that Sedge will be a (surprise?) favorite! Guessing most visitors will have seldom, if ever, played a par-68 at 6,000 yards. As a short hitter, I think the Fun Factor will be an 11. And I hope you are right about the mind-blowing course that we’ve yet to even contemplate!
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Peter,
That looks like a wonderful find. What is the condition of the shafts? Any chance they can acquire balls with similar characteristics (eg compression) to those in play during the relevant period?
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The shafts are 50/50. The better clubheads/ makers tended to have better quality shafts in the first place and many stay straight, even when stored like you're seeing in the pics. It's not that difficult to replace them when needed with new shafts or pulled shafts from other clubs.
With the balls, the best you can do is use soft compression, soft cover material balls. While they surely don't perform in the exact same manner as the ones from back in the day, they are 1.68" diameter. I do tend to think that the old 1.62" balls went significantly further, so it is a bit of a wash with the size increase, but with modern tech in them. My fantasy is that Snell or another manufacturer makes balata type balls again. Probably too much of a niche to bother with though.
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MacIntyre Golf makes several gutta percha style balls. They have relocated from San Diego to Omaha. Check them out on line.
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8) So we should all be thankful for the Wisconsin Glaciation...
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Agree with Ron Montesano that Sedge will be a (surprise?) favorite! Guessing most visitors will have seldom, if ever, played a par-68 at 6,000 yards. As a short hitter, I think the Fun Factor will be an 11. And I hope you are right about the mind-blowing course that we’ve yet to even contemplate!
Yet many/most do that every time they play.
White tees, senior tees, etc.
I've played a lot of golf this winter at a pblic course where the whites were 5700 yards and three of the par 5's were 430 yards(one of which I hit a wedge to). Seems like par 68 to me.
I love to see the scale of the game reduced, but the yardage will not be unique for most.
I'm hoping and assuming there will be far more to it than being 6000 yards with a par 68.
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I spent a few hours with Clark Willard from SV yesterday perusing a massive hickory golf club collection that was acquired from Texas. He was hunting for sets for SV golfers to use and we must have pieced together 20+ sets/ groupings He'll re-pin them, re-shaft them where needed, regrip them, etc. I could see these getting a lot of action on the Sand Box especially. But I'm especially interested in getting a feel for how the Lido plays from the original tees with this equipment. There are a few accounts of specific shots being hit in tournaments that would be fun to try to pull off.
(https://i.imgur.com/gsSdcCFl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NA9tbVal.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BqKbZHVl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uhn2uq2l.jpg)
That first photo is insane.
Peter, Only twenty sets out of all those? What are the most prevalent impediments of the clubs not used?
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Only 20 sets in the 1.5 hours that I had to peruse (due to family stuff). As you can see from the pics, the clubs in the bottom 80% of the pile were nearly impossible to view or extract.
But of the clubs in the top 20% of the layering, there are a lot of ones with poor characteristics. The worst quality that is tough to fix are ones with clubheads that are just too light. Adding a little lead tape is acceptable, but some of these are in the B range of swing weights and you'd have to add so much lead to them that it would really change the character of the club. Some of them have leading edges that are diggy and you'd have to increase the loft a lot to get the sole to be neutral bounce... but then you'd have a spade mashie shape with a mashie niblick loft, which isn't a great outcome. With others, the quality of the clubhead just wouldn't make sense with the amt of labor that you'd have to invest to restore the club.
But these hand made clubs varied a lot. For instance, you could have 2 separate George Nicoll Recorder 4 irons that look very similar, but one will be a perfect swing weight and the other will be significantly lighter. So it helps to have a swing weight scale and a measuring tape... or really good feel.
Based on what Tom has said about Sedge, it's not going to be an easy course, despite it's shorter length. However, if any stud scratch players do happen to find it too easy, they can grab one of these sets from Clark and the course will quickly seem terrifying.
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Agree with Ron Montesano that Sedge will be a (surprise?) favorite! Guessing most visitors will have seldom, if ever, played a par-68 at 6,000 yards. As a short hitter, I think the Fun Factor will be an 11. And I hope you are right about the mind-blowing course that we’ve yet to even contemplate!
Yet many/most do that every time they play.
White tees, senior tees, etc.
I've played a lot of golf this winter at a pblic course where the whites were 5700 yards and three of the par 5's were 430 yards(one of which I hit a wedge to). Seems like par 68 to me.
I love to see the scale of the game reduced, but the yardage will not be unique for most.
I'm hoping and assuming there will be far more to it than being 6000 yards with a par 68.
It is implicit that Sedge will tip at roughly 6000. So you and your white tees will be inside that.
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I do think that 6,000 par-68 which might equate to 6,300 par-70 or 6,600 par-72 is about the distance that most players play their courses most of the time, certainly in GB&I
So there ain’t anything really new in that.
But there is definitely a market for courses that tip out that way on more compact sites. And that’s what makes this course concept the right one. We’ll be playing a similar length course to the one we always play… but done without the giant scale of modern, “championship” pretences.
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I walked the holes they cleared in 2019-2020 before this was put on hold and they flipped to the Lido. Very interesting land movement with some great green sites.
Anyone who thinks this will be easy might be in for a surprise. I once made the mistake of playing Rye from the back tees-6,400 yards there was as hard as it gets.
Those of us who enjoy a challenge may find it fun. I suspect most will still find MD to be the most fun on the property.
SV and MD both have 5 par 5's and I think this may have only 1-right there it will be harder vis a vis the other courses.
The shorter walk and faster rounds will be nice and I'm looking forward to the opportunity to shoot my age sooner.
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Geez, no wonder TD isn't able to post much these days. He's an Uber busy boy. I don't know how many current and future projects he has, but it looks as though he'll be spending a lot of time in Wisconsin the next few years. Fortunately, it's a puddle jumper or ferry ride away from Traverse City.
Mike:
You don't know the half of it. We have signed up for a bunch of new projects, and now I've got to figure out how to deliver them all. Spending zero time on Golf Club Atlas is part of the plan.
My clients in Wisconsin are so concerned with owning the narrative of what we are doing, that I'm honestly afraid to say much about it. They are concerned that talking about a shorter course like Dan Moore just did could be construed by some customers as a sign of weakness, so they are trying to downplay par, or may even try to go with no par, so that some golfers can pretend par is more like 70 or 72.
But, in the meantime, we will just go about our business building what we have always talked about. It's a really good piece of ground, and I"m confident that people will like the finished product, because I have seen how the same model works in the UK. Nobody who's just played Rye or Swinley Forest or West Sussex goes into the grill and gets all analytical about par -- or if they do, I feel sorry for them.
I will be up in Wisconsin working the last week of April, and then again throughout the summer, likely more of the days in May and July than in June or August. If any of you are around, come out and see what we're up to. You might even find me running a bulldozer -- I am tuning up again to build a bunch of the greens on a special project in 2023.
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Bumped....any updates on any Doak projects?!?
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Apologies if this has been covered in another post, but does anyone know if they're allowing preview play at Sedge Valley yet? I'm going to be there in 2 weeks and my brother and I were hoping to check it out. I've seen some pictures from instagram but when I've asked the reservations team at SV, they've told me nothing has been released yet.
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There is limited preview play. I think it’s pretty limited so I’m not sure if you have to pull strings.
We are going to do our own preview in three weeks as a prelude to the Renaissance Cup. That’s the only feedback I will need.