Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Brian Marion on October 31, 2021, 12:32:29 PM
-
Andy Johnson is reporting that Tyler Rae and Kyle Franz are being hired to renovate Lookout Mountain in Chattanooga.
Has this been discussed here already and I missed it?
-
Tyler Rae did some great work at Beverly CC and Evanston GC here in Chicagoland.
-
This is great news. If I understand the plan correctly, Kyle Franz, Tyler Rae, and Jim Ryan will execute the plan Gil Hanse developed for the club several years ago. The course is very good in its current state. With greens expansion, significant bunker work, and all of the other details that were drawn up, it will be really special. Congratulations to the members, some of whom have been pushing for this for quite a while.
-
Didn't Brian Silva do quite a bit of work there just a few years ago? Are they fixing his mistakes or highlighting the features?
-
How does this effort fit into the write up on the 'Courses by Country' on the web site?
The Dixie Cup experience at LM was unfortunately diminished by constant rain. I remember reviewing the original, highly detailed and complex contour map of the course.
Very hard walk.
-
Didn't Brian Silva do quite a bit of work there just a few years ago? Are they fixing his mistakes or highlighting the features?
As I understand it, we should see this as another step in the successful reestablishment of Raynor's original vision, with Silva's work an also-essential part of that journey.
Doug Stein and the late King Oehmig helped explain some of the changes at Lookout Mountain to a group of us back in 2014. Doug could shed a lot more light. But it's a course with a pretty wild backstory: bold original design, never quite realized due to factors ranging from lack of soil to Raynor's death, fallen into semi-disrepair through years of neglect until the original plans were discovered and a few members spearheaded an effort to pursue what could have been.
Results were already pretty excellent, and I hope to see the results of this upcoming work firsthand someday.
-
Didn't Brian Silva do quite a bit of work there just a few years ago? Are they fixing his mistakes or highlighting the features?
Definitely just a continuation of what was already done by Brian Silva. The work he did there seemed very good, but I don't think they were able to do everything they hoped for. As Jason mentions, Doug Stein could provide all the detail and history.
-
Looking at old aerials of Lookout from before Silva, the change in bunkering is stark in the best of ways. The same can be said for the tree trimming. Its hard to believe that the views from the clubhouse off of the mountain to the SE would have been blocked at one points.
Comparing what has been done before to what Hanse proposed in 2009, it looks like a continuation of what was already started 20 years ago. I'll be curious to see what they do with the front of the 14th green and if the fairway leading up to that green is restored.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hyYXkSiReQO2x70OBDhQkWoeOE73dO4vArNVHi24Yx13nTaLd8vKqTrsGyCD-6D77yCQ51WlqVRBSzdJQ1smDQhT5tWGwIXkRV3nYevH_V-3FwFJCZUAwB-cH8HykOMKwAv4FXWOW2Q=w2400)
-
I loved my round at LM this summer.
Does anyone know if they are building a new clubhouse at the originally planned location as part of this work?
-
I loved my round at LM this summer.
Does anyone know if they are building a new clubhouse at the originally planned location as part of this work?
They are not.
-
I loved my round at LM this summer.
Does anyone know if they are building a new clubhouse at the originally planned location as part of this work?
I loved that old clubhouse.
-
I loved my round at LM this summer.
Does anyone know if they are building a new clubhouse at the originally planned location as part of this work?
They are not.
I would imagine with the formal "merger" with the Fariyland Club a few years ago, the desire for the original clubhouse site has been diminished.
-
I loved my round at LM this summer.
Does anyone know if they are building a new clubhouse at the originally planned location as part of this work?
They are not.
I would imagine with the formal "merger" with the Fariyland Club a few years ago, the desire for the original clubhouse site has been diminished.
The vote that passed also included major updates to the Fairyland Clubhouse and few minor updates to the Golf Clubhouse.
-
The course is so good in it's current form, already.
Can't wait to see the refined work.
-
The course is so good in it's current form, already.
Can't wait to see the refined work.
"Refined look" is probably a good call. I was playing another Raynor that Gil is scheduled to work on in 2022 and the member of the greens committee was pointing out some very small details that Gil was going to fix.
Seems Like Brian Silva has been replaced at quite a few courses the last few years? Is his eye not as good as other architects or does he not shape and thus not spending as much time on the sites?
-
The course is so good in it's current form, already.
Can't wait to see the refined work.
"Refined look" is probably a good call. I was playing another Raynor that Gil is scheduled to work on in 2022 and the member of the greens committee was pointing out some very small details that Gil was going to fix.
Seems Like Brian Silva has been replaced at quite a few courses the last few years? Is his eye not as good as other architects or does he not shape and thus not spending as much time on the sites?
It could be he is not as good at marketing or clubs want the new/popular architect ? In other words, I do not know :-).
-
Joel, I'm not sure if you're trying to come off like a layman looking to disparage a respected practitioner with an objectively excellent portfolio, but... well, that's what it comes off as to me.
What's your experience with Silva's work? Mine is limited to three courses:
I enjoy Lookout Mountain tremendously. I didn't play it prior to his work, but I've listened firsthand to members who drove the creation of the Raynor Committee speak with pride to the work they had accomplished through their partnership with him, and I have no doubt that it was deserved.
The day after my first play at Lookout, I got to play Black Creek. It's absolutely rad, and certainly not the work of a guy with an "eye not as good as other architects." It has a character as remarkable and strong as that of any modern course I've played.
I've also been able to watch Maketewah develop under his renovation plan for the better part of the last decade. His work has improved it visually, strategically, and agronomically.
If you've seen that he's done shitty work, come out and say that. But in the absence of having seen shitty work, maybe consider all the different reasons that an architect nearing 70 who's been active for over 40 years might be scaling back projects.
-
Hey guys. The third time was the charm!
Every architect that has ever come to Lookout has praised the work done by Brian Silva. We knew at the time that we weren't going to be able to restore the whole course- it had not ever really been done as far as we knew, other than some work to the hurricane-damaged Charleston CC. Raynor courses were either intact, or not. At that time Yeamans Hall was the course that came closest to being in the shape Lookout was in: the greens occupying only a fraction of the original green pads, and trees having grown up or been planted, and bunkers abandoned.
So when Brian Silva came to Lookout and we said we only have $750k to spend- where will be the most bang for the buck? He advised us that the fairway bunkers were the most important part of the strategy, and they needed to go in. Solid rock! Silva knew- and always said- that "Son of Long Range Plan" would be needed.
We tried a couple of times, but then there was "dot.com" followed by 9/11 followed by a financial meltdown. Some benefactors were unhappy with Silva and pressed for new eyes- but no one ever expressed unhappiness with his work on Lookout, which was really remarkable given the budget.
4 greens at Lookout had been hit with a bulldozer in the 1950's: #11 (Alps), 12, 14, and 17 (double plateau). Silva restored 11 and 17 along with the first restoration work, and those greens are really, really good in my opinion. #12 is likely under the practice green or clubhouse- we're not really sure what happened to it. #14 they tried to fix in the 1950's, but a shelf of rock underneath hurt it- but in 1953, when we think the work was done, the green speeds didn't make the result unplayable. We don't have a clear idea of what the green was like- it's not a clear template like 11 and 17 were, from the original plans (which I have). The hole was described by Charles Banks as modeled after the 6th at Lido, so the hole carries that name. But I don't know what about our 14th resembles the 6th at The Lido. Maybe the cross bunkers?
We got Gil Hanse to draw up "Son of Long Range Plan" in 2009. When the younger members came to me to get Gil to come execute the plan, I told them- he's going to be too busy (he was). So we went with the original strategy: hire a rising star. That turned out to be Kyle Franz, and Tyler Rae- who have also added Jim Ryan to the team. We are ecstatic and looking forward to finally, after 27 years, restoring Lookout Mountain all the way!
-
We got Gil Hanse to draw up "Son of Long Range Plan" in 2009. When the younger members came to me to get Gil to come execute the plan, I told them- he's going to be too busy (he was). So we went with the original strategy: hire a rising star. That turned out to be Kyle Franz, and Tyler Rae- who have also added Jim Ryan to the team. We are ecstatic and looking forward to finally, after 27 years, restoring Lookout Mountain all the way!
Doug--what is the club's intended timeline for work and completion?
-
We got Gil Hanse to draw up "Son of Long Range Plan" in 2009. When the younger members came to me to get Gil to come execute the plan, I told them- he's going to be too busy (he was). So we went with the original strategy: hire a rising star. That turned out to be Kyle Franz, and Tyler Rae- who have also added Jim Ryan to the team. We are ecstatic and looking forward to finally, after 27 years, restoring Lookout Mountain all the way!
Doug--what is the club's intended timeline for work and completion?
Golf Course Timeline:
Start 5/2/2022 - Finish 4/29/2023
Work is to be completed by 12/30/2022 and Grow In until 4/28/2023.
-
Golf Course Timeline:
Start 5/2/2022 - Finish 4/29/2023
Work is to be completed by 12/30/2022 and Grow In until 4/28/2023.
Thanks, Paul. Extensive work indeed!
-
The course will be open until after the "Swing Ding," our member-guest, the first weekend of June, 2022. The May start date is only some minor irrigation work that can start without closing the course. The rest of the schedule posted by Paul is correct.
I think they can beat the schedule if the weather holds out.
-
Doug I had a great time at LMTN listening to your journey and Norm Collingsworth impersonations( will he be blasting again?). Your course beat me up but it is definitely a learning curve kinda place
I would add the work that Brian has done at Biltmore Forest is excellent; truly a dont miss course if youre in the area.
When I spoke with him last year it seemed he had circled the wagons abit; he was actually a bit difficult to track down so maybe he has limited his practice in some fashion but once i fond him we had a delightful talk
-
Doug - So happy for you, LMC, Chattanooga. And get ready for more rounds at Black Creek as well. Looking forward to my next visit and for your first trip to Metairie CC. We are scheduled to reopen in December!
-
Philip: it's on my list. Thanks-
Doug
-
Will the dip in the bairitz be in the green or in front of it still? Hope they expand that green.
-
Will the dip in the bairitz be in the green or in front of it still? Hope they expand that green.
Here are the changes that were presented for Hole 4:
Add new back tee.
Expand and square up existing main tee.
Shift cart path from the right of the hole to the left to accommodate new bunkering.
Add new forward tee. Construct new bunker per the Raynor plan.
Core out existing right greenside bunker and replace liner and sand for improved playing conditions.
Rebuild and expand existing left greenside bunker.
Largely expand green and consider regrading fairway approach to improve drainage and intended playability.
-
Hey guys,
The restoration work will begin on June 6!
If you'll look at the original Raynor working drawings, you can see that the Biarritz had only the rear portion as green. The hole was listed at 220 yards.
Here's where to find them:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO03jLRxINt_qMdl5PL0qMql3ccepukdsp_pDfMEK_Ix8mRTcP7pETfhfsIZjNYDg?key=bThMTW1iZGd0UmdTbEJnRXVGM3RxTFI1V21BZ2x3
Thanks
Doug
-
Doug,
Congrats on this. Wow, this is a throwback post. I was in Chattanooga in April 2021, but logistics prevented seeing Lookout Mountain. We had dinner at the "old" train station, and I hope to get back there some day. People were really nice to us.
Please post pics...
-
Hey guys,
The restoration work will begin on June 6!
If you'll look at the original Raynor working drawings, you can see that the Biarritz had only the rear portion as green. The hole was listed at 220 yards.
Here's where to find them:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO03jLRxINt_qMdl5PL0qMql3ccepukdsp_pDfMEK_Ix8mRTcP7pETfhfsIZjNYDg?key=bThMTW1iZGd0UmdTbEJnRXVGM3RxTFI1V21BZ2x3 (https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO03jLRxINt_qMdl5PL0qMql3ccepukdsp_pDfMEK_Ix8mRTcP7pETfhfsIZjNYDg?key=bThMTW1iZGd0UmdTbEJnRXVGM3RxTFI1V21BZ2x3)
Thanks
Doug
Congrats! I also am looking forward to seeing the before and after- loved it pre-renovation even if it was that brutally cold and wet Dixie!
The APT players really appreciated the members opening up the course for them last summer, by the way. They raved about it. Hope we do it again!
-
Construction work has started on a $12 million golf course restoration project at Lookout Mountain Club, near Chattanooga, Georgia.
The layout was originally designed by Seth Raynor in 1925 and opened as Fairyland Golf Club, the centrepiece of a mountain resort. Raynor died two months after drafting his final plan, with his associate Charles Banks taking over.
The club hired Brian Silva in 1995 to develop a master plan that would complete Raynor’s vision. However, budget limitations meant only some of his recommendations were made – updating fairway bunkers and restoring the eleventh and seventeenth greens.
In October 2021, the club approved new plans to restore the golf course to its Raynor roots. A project team comprising Kyle Franz, Tyler Rae and Jim Ryan was hired, whose focus will be rebuilding and resurfacing greens, as well as rebuilding and expanding bunkers. A new irrigation system will be installed and new cart paths added.
“We have been blessed by the golf gods and are charged with breathing life back into the property,” said Rae. “This is one we may look back on in the later stages of our lives with pure joy and happiness, as these types of projects don’t come around too often.”
Caroline Williams, Lookout Mountain’s president, said: “This is such a defining moment in the narrative of Lookout Mountain Club. Our membership, board and team have overwhelmingly embraced the opportunity to invest in our future by partnering with the best in their fields to thoughtfully restore our historic golf course and clubhouse. The project will allow us to provide generations of members and their families an experience like no other – one that is distinctly Lookout and decidedly extraordinary.”
The project is expected to be completed in spring 2023, alongside renovations to the Fairyland Clubhouse.
Lookout Mountain Club breaks ground on $12 million restoration project (golfcoursearchitecture.net) (https://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/lookout-mountain-club-breaks-ground-on-12-million-restoration-project)
-
A few updates on what's happening up here:
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lookout-mountain-club-seth-raynor (https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lookout-mountain-club-seth-raynor)
https://www.instagram.com/p/Clw_TcdNqXU/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY= (https://www.instagram.com/p/Clw_TcdNqXU/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=)
https://www.instagram.com/p/ClwmhhZuoNw/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY= (https://www.instagram.com/p/ClwmhhZuoNw/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=)
-
I played it today. Holy cow is it good. The Tif Eagle greens were brilliant and the slope and undulations can make a first time player look silly. The course was fast and firm. I just loved it.
-
I played it today. Holy cow is it good. The Tif Eagle greens were brilliant and the slope and undulations can make a first time player look silly. The course was fast and firm. I just loved it.
While they redid the greens, they were reseeded with bentgrass. (AU, I believe)
-
I played it today. Holy cow is it good. The Tif Eagle greens were brilliant and the slope and undulations can make a first time player look silly. The course was fast and firm. I just loved it.
I was just going to ask last night if anyone had played here yet. Some friends played earlier this week, and sent me a few photos. The Redan looks like one of the best iterations possible (from very good already to great). I am excited to get back and see it.
What did you think of the 15th green? It looks absolutely wild.
-
I played it today. Holy cow is it good. The Tif Eagle greens were brilliant and the slope and undulations can make a first time player look silly. The course was fast and firm. I just loved it.
While they redid the greens, they were reseeded with bentgrass. (AU, I believe)
Anthony, I asked about the grass and was told Tiff Eagle. Now I did play six different courses so I could be confused.
-
I played it today. Holy cow is it good. The Tif Eagle greens were brilliant and the slope and undulations can make a first time player look silly. The course was fast and firm. I just loved it.
I was just going to ask last night if anyone had played here yet. Some friends played earlier this week, and sent me a few photos. The Redan looks like one of the best iterations possible (from very good already to great). I am excited to get back and see it.
What did you think of the 15th green? It looks absolutely wild.
I think I have a picture of that green. There are a lot of greens that have. Bunch of slope and undulations. The greens ran about 11 I think. Any faster and they would be unplayable.
-
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/q186/tomwilliamsen/IMG_4235.jpeg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/q186/tomwilliamsen/IMG_4235.jpeg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)
-
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/q186/tomwilliamsen/IMG_4223.jpeg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/q186/tomwilliamsen/IMG_4223.jpeg?width=960&height=720&fit=bounds)Sorry, I can’t recall the numbers.
-
I played it today. Holy cow is it good. The Tif Eagle greens were brilliant and the slope and undulations can make a first time player look silly. The course was fast and firm. I just loved it.
While they redid the greens, they were reseeded with bentgrass. (AU, I believe)
Anthony, I asked about the grass and was told Tiff Eagle. Now I did play six different courses so I could be confused.
All 18 greens at LMC are 100% AU Victory creeping bentgrass. The original McLemore course down the mountain also has AU Victory greens, and McLemore’s new course The Keep will be AU Victory as well.