This has been in the news the last few days and it appears that Arizona is going to have an 18% reduction in the amount of water that they get from Lake Mead.
Does anyone know if this will be affecting golf courses in the near future?
(https://static.seattletimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/08162021_Lake-Mead_185942-1020x680.jpg)https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/colorado-river-drops-to-record-low-levels-slashing-arizonas-water-supply/https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/first-ever-water-shortage-declared-on-the-colorado-river-triggering-water-cuts-for-some-states-in-the-west/ (https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/08/colorado-river-drops-to-record-low-levels-slashing-arizonas-water-supply/https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/first-ever-water-shortage-declared-on-the-colorado-river-triggering-water-cuts-for-some-states-in-the-west/)
The following is one anecdote without the course management's side of the story: A friend who does not play golf (and is not politically active or judgmental) spent last week at the Marriott in Palm Desert CA. She was surprised that the grass was "lush" and that the sprinklers were on "for a long time" during very hot days.
The following is one anecdote without the course management's side of the story: A friend who does not play golf (and is not politically active or judgmental) spent last week at the Marriott in Palm Desert CA. She was surprised that the grass was "lush" and that the sprinklers were on "for a long time" during very hot days.
I thought that the Coachella Valley is sitting on a huge water table. I don't know for sure, but I don't think the low desert of SoCal is affected by what happens with the Colorado.
http://www.cvwd.org/162/Groundwater-Replenishment-Imported-WaterThe following is one anecdote without the course management's side of the story: A friend who does not play golf (and is not politically active or judgmental) spent last week at the Marriott in Palm Desert CA. She was surprised that the grass was "lush" and that the sprinklers were on "for a long time" during very hot days.
I thought that the Coachella Valley is sitting on a huge water table. I don't know for sure, but I don't think the low desert of SoCal is affected by what happens with the Colorado.
They do get some water from the Colorado. Not sure what percentage.
http://www.cvwd.org/154/Where-does-my-water-come-from (http://www.cvwd.org/154/Where-does-my-water-come-from)
P.S. The seed price is not 100% independent of this. Suppliers are charging more because (a) shipping costs are going up, but also (b) because they are charging more profit due to uncertainty and (c) I am sure they think that golf courses can afford to pay it after a boom year.
We probably shouldn't be building golf courses in deserts ...Or much else really
We probably shouldn't be building golf courses in deserts ...A long held belief of mine, but not of the leading golf architects' association.
Peter well said. Also if you look at the prolonged drought conditions for California and the surrounding area, there isn't a big difference between what has traditionally been "desert" and the rest of the state. Climates change and whether we recognize it or not that region which could be classified as a "desert" in the coming decades. I think 10 inches or less if a common definition, but also you have to factor in evaporation (warmer temps), which magnifies the issue.We probably shouldn't be building golf courses in deserts ...A long held belief of mine, but not of the leading golf architects' association.
And as I read this, I can't quite make myself believe what is so obviously true: ie that the wastefulness & excess all comes down to golfers simply not wanting to play on dormant turf, ever.
My goodness.
Tom,
I am completely aware on the revenue that is made during the winter, and why GMs and management companies insist on overseeding. I just feel like eventually, as you mentioned either water costs are going to be so high it doesn't make financial sense to overseed, or clubs are going to realize all the savings they have on their budget by not overseeding compared to the slight hit they might take in round costs by being a course not overseeded.
During the months of Dec-Feb we make 36% of our overall revenue in green fees. If you want to extend out for the full overseed season of Oct-March it is 64% of the revenue.
I did a big detailed report on the difference in costs of overseeding versus not a couple of years ago. To not overseed a golf course with normal acreage results in a savings of $340k.
That savings comes from (less fertilizer, less chemicals, no seed costs, less fuel, less repair and maintenance on machines, costs of water savings from grow in of the rye, and grow in of the bermuda in the spring, and the big one is 18 days of more revenue by not having to close for overseed)
As for the paints, yes Endurant is the popular one out here also. Many new vendors are trying their hand in it right now though with better price points. Scottsdale National does Endurant throughout the winter depending on need. If you want it too look dark you probably need an application every 28 days. If you don't mind the slightly off color look you could stretch it to 40 days depending on weather. The expectation is that you would need about 3-4 full apps of paint to get through the winter months.
Peter well said. Also if you look at the prolonged drought conditions for California and the surrounding area, there isn't a big difference between what has traditionally been "desert" and the rest of the state. Climates change and whether we recognize it or not that region which could be classified as a "desert" in the coming decades. I think 10 inches or less if a common definition, but also you have to factor in evaporation (warmer temps), which magnifies the issue.We probably shouldn't be building golf courses in deserts ...A long held belief of mine, but not of the leading golf architects' association.
And as I read this, I can't quite make myself believe what is so obviously true: ie that the wastefulness & excess all comes down to golfers simply not wanting to play on dormant turf, ever.
My goodness.
As opposed to debating the cause of the problem (global warming), which California can't fix themselves, they have to deal with the affects which is low amounts of rainfall and higher temps. Desalination has been and will continue to be a big part of that solution. Although energy intensive and brine producing, what other option do you have under your control? The costs have gone down in the last 2 decades and if you treat brackish water as opposed to straight saltwater you have less energy needed and less brine produced.
Now this is not a golf course problem, this is a sustainable issue for human habitation. A much higher priority than green grass would be sustaining the farming industry (i.e. almonds and grapes). Irrigating rough should have been eliminated years ago IMO and the desert courses particularly would be wise to eliminate that grass totally and bring back the desert landscape if they already don't have it as a part of their features. AZ same issue, but they don't have the water desalination access and much more dependent on the Colorado River water. Also Las Vegas gets almost all of it from Lake Mead, but they are much closer to the source.
So yes we care about golf courses here, but this problem has effects several levels up in priority.
"Desalination is not part of the solution, it is part of the problem, unless you are making it all work via tidal power or something"
Tom,
Could you please explain this? Are you saying that the energy used by desalination plants outweighs the benefit of the fresh water?
From a golf course perspective in southern coastal area's where salt and brackish water is available isn't Paspalum a potential solution. I've heard you can water it with salt water.
"Desalination is not part of the solution, it is part of the problem, unless you are making it all work via tidal power or something"Yes, exactly. If you use solar or wind to generate the power needed what is wrong with it? Assuming that you can desalinate the water and store it for a period of time, wouldn't this also allow you to deal with the intermittency issue with solar and wind?
Tom,
Could you please explain this? Are you saying that the energy used by desalination plants outweighs the benefit of the fresh water?
From a golf course perspective in southern coastal area's where salt and brackish water is available isn't Paspalum a potential solution. I've heard you can water it with salt water.
Are there not courses operating that use salt water for irrigation of paspalum? I thought that this was the case with courses in the caribbean.
You can water anything with salt water. The problem is two fold. 1, some plants have higher tolerance to salt in the soil than others ie:paspalum. 2, Watering with salt water builds up in the soil and will eventually make it inhospitable for plants at certain concentrations. The only way to rid the soil of salt is with excessive amounts of fresh water, or rain. So, your statement saying you can water paspalum with salt water is somewhat true, but what happens if it builds up and you’re not able to flush the salt out? Let’s put it this way…you’re going to lose grass quickly.
Are there not courses operating that use salt water for irrigation of paspalum? I thought that this was the case with courses in the caribbean.
You can water anything with salt water. The problem is two fold. 1, some plants have higher tolerance to salt in the soil than others ie:paspalum. 2, Watering with salt water builds up in the soil and will eventually make it inhospitable for plants at certain concentrations. The only way to rid the soil of salt is with excessive amounts of fresh water, or rain. So, your statement saying you can water paspalum with salt water is somewhat true, but what happens if it builds up and you’re not able to flush the salt out? Let’s put it this way…you’re going to lose grass quickly.
Here is a USGA document on this issue that discusses Old Collier Golf Club in Naples, FL https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/course-care/water-resource-center/watersummitarticles/214424%20Hiers%2C%20Tim%20-%20Irrigation%20with%20a%20Toxin.pdf (https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/course-care/water-resource-center/watersummitarticles/214424%20Hiers%2C%20Tim%20-%20Irrigation%20with%20a%20Toxin.pdf)
Are there not courses operating that use salt water for irrigation of paspalum? I thought that this was the case with courses in the caribbean.
You can water anything with salt water. The problem is two fold. 1, some plants have higher tolerance to salt in the soil than others ie:paspalum. 2, Watering with salt water builds up in the soil and will eventually make it inhospitable for plants at certain concentrations. The only way to rid the soil of salt is with excessive amounts of fresh water, or rain. So, your statement saying you can water paspalum with salt water is somewhat true, but what happens if it builds up and you’re not able to flush the salt out? Let’s put it this way…you’re going to lose grass quickly.
Here is a USGA document on this issue that discusses Old Collier Golf Club in Naples, FL https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/course-care/water-resource-center/watersummitarticles/214424%20Hiers%2C%20Tim%20-%20Irrigation%20with%20a%20Toxin.pdf (https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/course-care/water-resource-center/watersummitarticles/214424%20Hiers%2C%20Tim%20-%20Irrigation%20with%20a%20Toxin.pdf)
"Desalination is not part of the solution, it is part of the problem, unless you are making it all work via tidal power or something"
Tom,
Could you please explain this? Are you saying that the energy used by desalination plants outweighs the benefit of the fresh water?
From a golf course perspective in southern coastal area's where salt and brackish water is available isn't Paspalum a potential solution. I've heard you can water it with salt water.
8) The largest desalination plant in the western hemisphere in Carlsbad, CA makes about 50 million gallons per day of drinking water for $0.005 per gal from the pacific ocean feed. Its been running for about 5 years now.
I worked on very large chemical plant project in the middle east that made desalinated water for $0.006 per gallon. The irrigation spec for the green belt areas was 1500 parts per million total dissolved solids, feed water spec was about 45,000 part per million.
These are industrial world scale projects that can be easily repeated if there's the desire and an ocean shoreline nearby...
8) The largest desalination plant in the western hemisphere in Carlsbad, CA makes about 50 million gallons per day of drinking water for $0.005 per gal from the pacific ocean feed. Its been running for about 5 years now.
Peter -
Have you looked at the grass that Desert Mountain used for Renegade and Seven? What do you think of it if you have? My impression is that it has held up well through 2 summers and last summer was high stress. I was told it's a bent variety. Desert Forest used to have bent fairways a long time ago - maybe it's a modification of that?
Peter:
Thanks for these numbers, they are by far the best I've seen on this topic. I'm actually surprised that the revenue numbers are not more skewed to the winter season.
8) The largest desalination plant in the western hemisphere in Carlsbad, CA makes about 50 million gallons per day of drinking water for $0.005 per gal from the pacific ocean feed. Its been running for about 5 years now.
I worked on very large chemical plant project in the middle east that made desalinated water for $0.006 per gallon. The irrigation spec for the green belt areas was 1500 parts per million total dissolved solids, feed water spec was about 45,000 part per million.
These are industrial world scale projects that can be easily repeated if there's the desire and an ocean shoreline nearby...
Steve,
Are those operating costs per gallon once the facility is up and running? Or does that calculate in infrastructure, build costs, ongoing maintenance, etc?
8) The largest desalination plant in the western hemisphere in Carlsbad, CA makes about 50 million gallons per day of drinking water for $0.005 per gal from the pacific ocean feed. Its been running for about 5 years now.
If you meant half a cent per gallon, that sounds great phrased that way. But at a million gallons per day for golf course irrigation in a desert environment, that could also be phrased as $5000 per day, or $150k per month.
In the ME even the ground water is very salty and needs to be treated in RO plants. It is a reality of the region for fresh water. The more salt that is removed the more "sweet" it is. Treated water is commonly referred to as "sweet". Even in our homes you may only have "sweet" water coming into a drinking faucet at the sink. Everything else is throttled back in terms of treatment. In company housing some people try and cut into the "sweet" line to go throughout the house. If caught (and some are) it is a fire able offense. There just isn't the same level of convenience in many countries to turn a tap and expect water you can drink.8) The largest desalination plant in the western hemisphere in Carlsbad, CA makes about 50 million gallons per day of drinking water for $0.005 per gal from the pacific ocean feed. Its been running for about 5 years now.
If you meant half a cent per gallon, that sounds great phrased that way. But at a million gallons per day for golf course irrigation in a desert environment, that could also be phrased as $5000 per day, or $150k per month.
YEP
~ quarter inch a day of desal water, over ~ 150 acres is going to cost you, if you can get such a contract cost at your water meter
Here in Utah, small towns have been feeling it for awhile. After a few close calls, this one has run out. Combine that with the hotter temps in the now increasingly more shallow lakes... toxic algae blooms are quickly getting far worse.Now factor in the all too imminent lack of hydro electric power, due to the low water level of dammed rivers and that 9-10% of electrical power to the grid could vanish as well. The domino effect is quite depressing. I believe AZ is or was considering building a desal plant on the gulf of mexico to make a deal with Mexico for their portion of the Colorado River water. Divert Mexico's portion farther up the river to AZ. In turn AZ would build the desal plant for Mexico to get their portion. Yes Mexico was a party to the treaty for water rights.
fox13now.com/news/utah-drought/scofield-runs-out-of-drinking-water
I feel like the catastrophic moment is close and millions are going to be left holding the biggest bag of crap in USA history. Call me a pessimist, but people have buried their heads in the sand for too long and it’s going from bad to worse
I feel like the catastrophic moment is close and millions are going to be left holding the biggest bag of crap in USA history. Call me a pessimist, but people have buried their heads in the sand for too long and it’s going from bad to worse