Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on August 12, 2021, 11:35:23 AM
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Joseph Cyril Bamford founded JCB in 1945 with a can-do spirit. Today, there are 22 global factories manufacturing over 300 types of machinery. The company is successful enough that in the UK, the company name is used as a generic term for excavators and diggers. I once knew a golfer who took such prodigious divots with his 5 wood that he was called JCB! Given the scale of the company, it isn’t surprising that Lord Bamford’s vision for his new course was ambitious. To execute the plan, JCB engaged European Golf Design’s Robin Hiseman.
Having known Robin for many years, I may be slightly biased. Be that as it may, after countless conversations and games of golf over several years, it is abundantly clear that Robin is an exceptional person. Several attributes come to mind which could be used to describe Robin. He is knowledgeable, affable, patient, keen eyed and after nearly 30 years in the golf design business, Robin remains hungry to not only design courses, but seek out new golfing adventures. Knowing Robin's inspirations for this job were the World Atlas of Golf, Tobacco Road, Oakmont and Crystal Downs left me in no doubt that something memorable was in the works with him at the helm of JCB G&CC.
The course covers a 240-acre property near JCB’s main manufacturing site in Staffordshire. The mandate called for an adventurous and sophisticated design which could test elite golfers. While attractive and loaded with elevation changes, the site is clay based. As such, the design required extensive construction (~650,000 cubic meters of earth were shifted!) to blend the man-made and natural elements into a cohesive and playable course. This design approach, when combined with the necessary space to host top level golfers means the walk is difficult, but not undoable. In truth, if the ruined Woodseat Hall was the clubhouse as was contemplated, two significant road-bound walks would be eliminated.
Onto the 1st hole where no punches are pulled. Playing over water to a raised green, JCB's opener is quite secluded from the remainder of the course. Incidentally, this hole required perhaps more earth moving than any other hole for the project. The tee markers are a firm reminder of JCB.
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While generally not an issue, I wonder why the trees on the right were not taken down. I much prefer full sightlines to bunkers. The mantra on this approach is to keep the ball between yourself and the hole.
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The layout reminds me quite a bit of a Gertrude Jekyll designed manor house garden. Large gardens offer the advantage of creating "garden rooms". One gets the sense of entering different garden rooms at JCB. With the exception of the approach to the 3rd green, holes 2-4 are very open and inviting. #2 tee shot.
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Many of the greens are very creative without being oppressive. In some cases, experience playing the course can be advantageous when it comes to setting up approaches and putting. Below is the approach to the very difficult front hole location hanging just over a dip.
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A seamless transition from the second green to the back tee of #3 is a welcome touch. A par 5, the third is about a 75 degree dogleg left. One can go over the bunkers which are deceptively further away than appearances suggest.
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Looking down the fairway, it did strike me that blind danger was about.
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I didn't properly appreciate the narrow target until well up the fairway. The water is a restored section of an old canal.
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The opening four holes twist and turn enough to disguise the fact that the 4th runs parallel in the same direction as the 2nd! I am sure hole construction also aided this cause. We can play for the left side of the 4th fairway, but the (often blind) approach to this diabolical hole location remains troublesome. I am not keen on the mound top tree plantings on this hole and the odd place or two elsewhere.
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Bamboozled Boony.
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More to follow.
Ciao
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Rob should be very deeply honoured that you've compared him with Jekyll. I see exactly what you mean by the 'garden room' thought. It just needs a rill here or there, a herbaceous border or two - and maybe a Lutyens house!
His eye for an architectural detail is beyond belief. Good training, combined with talent and experience are very obvious here.
Mine's a pint at BUDA, Rob... ;D
Seriously though, well done!
F.
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Sean
I was wondering which alliteration you would use. 'J' doesn't give you much choice!
Glad to see JCB getting the Arble analysis. You know that I rate your opinion, so will be taking a keen interest in your review, even if this isn't the kind of course that typically finds favour in this particular treehouse.
Let me throw in a couple of comments based on your first four holes.
I should point out that the photo towards the 1st green is taken from the extreme right edge of a fairway that is 70 yards wide, so for the great majority of the fairway both the green and the bunkering is unobscured. I retained the trees for their landscape composition benefits, in my view. I could see a nice 'left-right-left' arrangement to the major tree groups that led the eye nicely towards the green. There are a couple of stately Alders and decorative birch species, with a particularly nice bark.
The 3rd is a sharp dogleg, but it is only a 70 degree turn, not 100. I've never and doubt I would ever design a dogleg that went beyond a right angle and started playing back on itself. I've played one or two though. The water to the right of the green is a restored section of the 18th Century Uttoxeter Canal, which last saw a boat in the mid 1800's. The lake on Hole 1 is a continuation of the same canal. The water that you cross with the approach to the 1st is a 'Winding Hole', which is where the long narrowboats could be turned around with the help of the wind. It was replaced by the railway which was built on its towpath. The railway closed as part of the Beeching cuts in the 1960's. Our cart path, on the other side of the canal, runs on the former track bed.
The 4th is a breather hole, after an exciting opening three. No bunkers here, but partially inspired by one of my favourite bunkerless holes, the 2nd at Huntercombe, combined with one of my favourite greens, the 4th at Huntercombe, albeit in reverse. Not a slavish copy, but I think we've captured the dramatic right to left feed onto the green that I love so much at Huntercombe. Not so much help with the hole location we had, but it's a different story with the hole on the much larger lower section down to the left.
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The greens look fascinating and fun and so far the bunkers look fascinating. It does seem that there will be a lot of handwork in maintaining in them, however.
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Sean
I was wondering which alliteration you would use. 'J' doesn't give you much choice!
Glad to see JCB getting the Arble analysis. You know that I rate your opinion, so will be taking a keen interest in your review, even if this isn't the kind of course that typically finds favour in this particular treehouse.
The 3rd is a sharp dogleg, but it is only a 70 degree turn, not 100.
Doc
Sorry, I mixed up the degree of the dogleg, meant to say a dogleg less than 90, maybe 75. You must have typed your comment when I was editing my comment 8) .
JCB Tour Cont
A downhill short hole, the 5th has different teeing areas which alter the angle without changing the length very much...a design approach I favour. Despite the presence of trees the wind still whips up.
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Playing fairly long into the wind and uphill, the par 5 sixth is quite the challenge. I took to this hole perhaps because of its severity.
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Short grass loops around the punched up green.
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Behind the green.
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It is obvious the architect spent a great deal of energy to make the course aesthetically pleasing. Its a great shame then that cart paths mar the setting to some degree. Beyond that, to my eye the round teeing areas don't fit. However, these quibbles don't alter the quality of the hole. As is the case for much of the round, the bite of the design is at the green end. IMO, the greens are the star of the show. The club should be commended for keeping the cut heights reasonable so the greens can be completely enjoyed. The 7th below.
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At this point in the round, while stood in the halfway house, a trolley legged it for the pond. A member of the 4ball failed to brake the trolley and thus heroics from Boony and Doc saved the day. Whatever else may have happened, the day was a success :D .
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More to follow.
Ciao
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good thing you guys don't use buggies
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Sean,
This is your greatest post, because you have the "street cred" to post it. I will NEVER play this course. :D
Please put me on your Saint Patrick's list, please....
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Sean, the course appears to be an amalgamation of English and US golf.
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Sean,
This is your greatest post, because you have the "street cred" to post it. I will NEVER play this course. :D
Please put me on your Saint Patrick's list, please....
Sweeney
If you get an invite, I encourage you to play JCB.
Tommy
Yes, JCB does feel a bit like it straddles English and US course styles.
JCB TOUR CONT
With the sheenanigans over, we enter a more wooded section of the course for 8 & 9. Quite a tight, uphill drive, its easy to be left with a blind approach. One of my favourite green locations on the course, the 8th green sits on a rise...reminds me a ton of Ross holes.
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Yet another interesting green! I appreciate that sharp, short grass run-offs don't completely surround the green. The approach and green are difficult as is. Many of the greens are presented this way which may be a bit unusual for a new design. In JCB's case, it is a welcome departure from the norm.
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Rear right of green.
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A handsome short hole, however, I do wonder about the trees on the left on 9. They seem to compromise a great set piece.
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Walking to the 10th, we get a glimpse of Woodseat Hall ruin. This seems like a great place for the house to be located.
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Perhaps my favourite hole, the par 5 tenth features a sharp angle dog leg off the tee then straightens for most of the hole. The tee shot is a bit obscured, but there is plenty of room to open the shoulders and even cut the corner (out of picture left).
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The second shot asks some questions!
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The green has a Redanish feel to it. The rear of the putting surface retreats severely away from the fairway. It was at this point in the round that I fully appreciated the drainage. I happened to go off plan to the left and experienced the muddy clay conditions. There is no hint of such conditions within the playing corridors.
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A longish walk takes us back to the scene of the sheenanigans for the tricky 11th. The hole features another strong legger with a bunker on the corner and more trouble in the guise of fairway shaping and sand on the far side of the fairway. The approach over water requires serious accuracy. Another of my favourites!
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More to follow.
Ciao
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JCB Tour Cont
Another short two-shotter, the 12th plays downhill.
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A par 5 from daily tees, the 13th is the third hole over 600 yards from the championship tees. We chose to play the tees planned to be used for the Rose Ladies Series. At 440ish yards this hole remains formidable. The narrow fairway plays left of blind water. While the hazard can't be seen, it is obvious from the tee that there is some sort of trouble on this line. The light began fading at this point in the round!
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The normal par 5 tee.
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The approach is a tough target which must cope with a water carry unless one hits an extremely deep tee shot. Interesting shaping shy of the green. It looks as though a bunker could be there, but thankfully the archie took pity on us poor hackers.
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Another terrific hole, the short 14th plays uphill to a provocative green.
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A challenging tee shot awaits on 15; JCB demands golfers to be switched on for the entire round.
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More to follow.
Ciao
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Sean:
As it happened, they didn't use that tee on 13 for the Rose Series. They chose instead to play the 6th as a Par 4 from the green tee. I'm not convinced it was the right call. They played 13 as a Par 5 from the Yellow Tee.
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JCB Tour Cont
A bit of a fiddly hole, the 16th fairway abruptly ends, essentially creating a forced lay-up for many golfers. I prefer if some trees on the right were removed to open up a view of the green.
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Perhaps the highlight hole, the short, drop shot 17th plays to an island green. However, the island is probably close to 3 times the size needed for the green. This size somehow makes the hole less intimidating . One of the best features of JCB is the beach bunker short right of the green. This is one of the few times I have seen a bunker next to water that didn't look incongruous. Like most of the greens, this one is also compelling. There are sort of four quadrants set on a slope from rear left to front right. I can imagine most hole locations will be challenging.
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A closer look.
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The 18th tee is set on the island making this a monster finishing hole. We played the forward tee which is significantly easier, but not without merit given the centreline bunkers creating a high-low split fairway. One can choose which side of the fairway to play depending on the hole location.
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I have to say JCB impressed me greatly. Matching hole for hole, I haven't seen a GB&I modern inland course which is in its class. If the right tees are chosen, the course offers the golfer loads of variety in terms of hole lengths, green styles/locations & terrain. I could quite happily play a mix of yellow (6599 yards) and blue (5630 yards) tees. The major drawback of the design is the walk. Given the property and desire to host golfing abilities from touring pro to rank handicappers, while not desirable, the tough walk is understandable. Regardless, with so many positive attributes, an invitation to play JCB should not be turned down. 1* 2021
Ciao
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Sean,
Have you played Close House? For me, comfortably the best modern UK inland course I have played. Doubt I'll ever get to play JCB given the private nature of the place.
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Sean,
Have you played Close House? For me, comfortably the best modern UK inland course I have played. Doubt I'll ever get to play JCB given the private nature of the place.
I've seen both. IMO JCB is in a different league to Close House (which I like very much).
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This is one of the few times I have seen a bunker next to water that didn't look incongruous.
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Congrats to Robin, those I've met who've played are full of enthusiastic praise. I'm dying to play it.
But (judging on the photo's alone) I can't help thinking I'm not at all keen on the look of those white sand bunkers with the clean cut frilly edges. They just don't feel right for Staffordshire? I do like the idea of the bunker bleeding into the water. Where I've seen this on lakes and river banks its typically caused by animals coming down for a drink, often there is a step down where the land has 'broken' and then there's 'the beach'.
Would make a great BUDA combined with Cannock. Just sayin!
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This is one of the few times I have seen a bunker next to water that didn't look incongruous.
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Congrats to Robin, those I've met who've played are full of enthusiastic praise. I'm dying to play it.
But (judging on the photo's alone) I can't help thinking I'm not at all keen on the look of those white sand bunkers with the clean cut frilly edges. They just don't feel right for Staffordshire? I do like the idea of the bunker bleeding into the water. Where I've seen this on lakes and river banks its typically caused by animals coming down for a drink, often there is a step down where the land has 'broken' and then there's 'the beach'.
Would make a great BUDA combined with Cannock. Just sayin!
Spangles
I didn't notice the sand colour nor find the bunker shapes un-Staffordshire like. A lot of the bunkers are quite large and benefit from odd shapes. I was more concerned with niggly trees blocking views and the saplings planted on mound tops. A small concern for sure, but worth noting.
Ciao
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Sean,
Thanks for this tour. I thought that I had posted a comment on it previously, but guess not. Anyway, some thoughts:
For me, the highlight is the green sites and surrounds. Almost all look very natural, which isn't the case on many modern courses. The variety of shapes and angles promises a lot of interest and variety as hole locations are changed. From what I could see (and your comments) the greens look interesting and not over-done. I really appreciate Robin's use of Huntercombe as inspiration for the 4th.
I was somewhat apprehensive about use of water hazards, but for the most part what I see in pictures looks fine. I don't love the double water carries on the first hole and the island 16th seems out of place on this course (looks like a fine hole, but island greens feel too contrived). I'm a big fan of the use of the canal on the 3rd, though. That's a perfect example of how aesthetically pleasing water hazards can be. For me, they look best either small or the ocean....
Cart paths in the aerial view are much more obvious than in Sean's pics. They seem reasonably well hidden at ground level without using excess shaping to do that. I don't have much concern with the trees that are left in place - assume that the super is committed to maintaining their current size so the impact on shots doesn't increase over time.
Overall, very intrigued with the course. Not sure I'll ever have the chance to see it, but seems like a fine addition to English golf.
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The par-3 9th from Sean’s photos seems to have quite a passing resemblance to photos I’ve seen of green sites at Pasatiempo.
Now this comment is made purely on viewing photos as I’ve not seen either course with my own eyes so I’d welcome thoughts from those who have seen both from on-site.
Atb
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Perhaps the highlight hole, the short, drop shot 17th plays to an island green.
...... Like most of the greens, this one is also compelling. There are sort of four quadrants set on a slope from rear left to front right. I can imagine most hole locations will be challenging.
An homage to Braid? He did this a few times, there's an old thread somewhere.
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Shurely Staffordshire would be an easy drive from Buxton? Just saying… ;D
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Perhaps the highlight hole, the short, drop shot 17th plays to an island green.
...... Like most of the greens, this one is also compelling. There are sort of four quadrants set on a slope from rear left to front right. I can imagine most hole locations will be challenging.
An homage to Braid? He did this a few times, there's an old thread somewhere.
Interesting. I haven't seen a Braid green like the 17th.
It's a simple thing, but tilting the green toward the tee I think makes drop shot par 3s more attractive. Possibly the bunkers fit better and thus look more attractive. Its certainly a more welcoming look.
Ciao
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I was somewhat apprehensive about use of water hazards, but for the most part what I see in pictures looks fine. I don't love the double water carries on the first hole and the island 16th seems out of place on this course (looks like a fine hole, but island greens feel too contrived). I'm a big fan of the use of the canal on the 3rd, though. That's a perfect example of how aesthetically pleasing water hazards can be. For me, they look best either small or the ocean....
Overall, very intrigued with the course. Not sure I'll ever have the chance to see it, but seems like a fine addition to English golf.
John
Thanks for your comments. Generally, I would agree that an island green is a contrivance when the island is constructed specifically for the purpose. In this instance, it was not and pre-dated the golf course by 50 years. The 17th is a 'found' green site, which only came to be because this island existed in precisely the right spot for me to be able to use it for a golf hole. Clearly, we had to make the narrow island a bit wider to provide a fair target, but it exists solely because the island was already there.
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I was somewhat apprehensive about use of water hazards, but for the most part what I see in pictures looks fine. I don't love the double water carries on the first hole and the island 16th seems out of place on this course (looks like a fine hole, but island greens feel too contrived). I'm a big fan of the use of the canal on the 3rd, though. That's a perfect example of how aesthetically pleasing water hazards can be. For me, they look best either small or the ocean....
Overall, very intrigued with the course. Not sure I'll ever have the chance to see it, but seems like a fine addition to English golf.
John
Thanks for your comments. Generally, I would agree that an island green is a contrivance when the island is constructed specifically for the purpose. In this instance, it was not and pre-dated the golf course by 50 years. The 17th is a 'found' green site, which only came to be because this island existed in precisely the right spot for me to be able to use it for a golf hole. Clearly, we had to make the narrow island a bit wider to provide a fair target, but it exists solely because the island was already there.
The first works really well. Safe to say it is no gentle handshake but it really gets the blood pumping early in the round and is a thrilling hole to play. The good thing is though that there are plenty more to come!
The 17th is spectacular for sure and works well with the main 18th tee just off it for one last carry. It would be fair to say though that it has a slightly different feel to other holes as everything else is really secluded and tranquil and this is a lot more open with the road behind.
It’s a better course for its inclusion though. Am I right in saying you had another routing initially without it Robin?
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David:
Yes. The 17th tee would have played to the 18th green. I would have had the alternative hole somewhere in the area of the 13th, which traverses an enormous area for one hole.
It is inevitable that the 17th feels a bit different to the others, as it is the only hole that breaks out into the part of the site close to the busy road (main route to the factory and nearby Alton Towers) and is a dramatic set piece in its own right. JCB has planted a laurel hedge along the road, which will eventually screen the road better, but it wasn't planted very well and a lot of it died with salt spray.
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Perhaps the highlight hole, the short, drop shot 17th plays to an island green.
...... Like most of the greens, this one is also compelling. There are sort of four quadrants set on a slope from rear left to front right. I can imagine most hole locations will be challenging.
An homage to Braid? He did this a few times, there's an old thread somewhere.
Interesting. I haven't seen a Braid green like the 17th.
It's a simple thing, but tilting the green toward the tee I think makes drop shot par 3s more attractive. Possibly the bunkers fit better and thus look more attractive. Its certainly a more welcoming look.
Ciao
Maybe its just the way they are described but you (and Robin) have played to (uphill) greens with 4 sections.
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Perhaps the highlight hole, the short, drop shot 17th plays to an island green.
...... Like most of the greens, this one is also compelling. There are sort of four quadrants set on a slope from rear left to front right. I can imagine most hole locations will be challenging.
An homage to Braid? He did this a few times, there's an old thread somewhere.
Interesting. I haven't seen a Braid green like the 17th.
It's a simple thing, but tilting the green toward the tee I think makes drop shot par 3s more attractive. Possibly the bunkers fit better and thus look more attractive. Its certainly a more welcoming look.
Ciao
Maybe its just the way they are described but you (and Robin) have played to (uphill) greens with 4 sections.
I did poorly describe the green. It is four quadrants. The three right quadrants combined are about the size of left quadrant.
Ciao
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My sincere thanks to Sean for putting together this photo tour. It's an honour to get an official Arble review and a star!
Let me explain the access issue, because I do get asked about it quite often. I don't have membership or playing privileges at JCB. If I want to play I have to request access for myself and anyone I want to take along. I have to use this very sparingly and they have been very good at allowing me to take guests every once in a while.
Sean has always been very generous in inviting me down to Burnham on a regular basis, so when I did some 'pro bono' work for JCB earlier this year I was granted a fourball in return. Sean was always going to be the first person I asked along. I'd love to take you all there, but I can't. I hope you can find a way, like Duncan Cheslett did, if you are curious to see it for yourself. As and when I do get the chance to take some other folks on, then I shall be considering the GCA crowd for sure.
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Sometimes your wishes do come true and so a big thanks to JR and ID. Even 24 hrs torrential rain (which only stopped as we reached the turn) couldn’t kill the fun.
Even the full name, JCB Golf and Country Club, is not your typical of the GB&I experience. It has the smallest Car Park I’ve ever seen at a GC and the changing room is positively minute, a few padded bench seats and complimentary lockers, but with plentiful showers etc. The common area are comparatively spacious and the service is efficient but never overbearing. I was really surprised that a world beating firm having built this right by their HQ did so little to promote their brand – to the point where I was a tad disappointed not to learn more. Warm up facilities are nearer at hand than anywhere else I can think of. Everything was “just so”. Its what I want from somewhere “exclusive”, I want to feel comfortable.
As the first is a hundred yards away it is readily apparent this is a cartball course. However I had never previously appreciated the relief from the rain they provide, so I won’t moan too much.
Without going into detail I’ll just say I loved every hole. There’s lots of visual distractions some holes play easier than they look with large landing areas and others more difficult e.g as we are tempted by the thought of taking on the doglegs. Loved the use of centreline bunkers. The greens are very large and have some surprisingly severe definition of discrete areas within them e.g. 17 and 18. Really a great set of greens that define the course, without any feeling of repetition or the dreaded scalloped edge construction. Some of the areas in front of greens have to be seen to be believed and the run off areas surprised and delighted me. Chipping off short grass gives a chance to recover (or make a fool of oneself). The colour of the sand seemed just right. The whole flowed seamlessly, offering a series of interesting challenges.
The 11th seemed almost like an homage to the 10th at the Belfry?(that’s meant as a compliment)
Negatives? Still not 100% convinced that the style of bunker edging is perfectly suited to inland Britain. Whilst the before photo's in the clubhouse show what a great job has been done creating "naturally undulating" fairways, in one or two places the mounding in the rough is a little obvious - including either side of the drive in. Aesthetics aside, the only criticism I'd offer of playability is that the 18th is unremittingly difficult from drive to green. Could not the left hand fairway bunker in front of the green, be filled in and a flat area be created allowing The Rabbit a chance to safely negotiate a path to get on in 3? I probably would still have got myself in trouble, but there was no choice but to try and play off pretty severely sloping lies. On the whole the course coped really well with the deluge but our group did lose 2 balls – presumably plugged in the rough.
But back in the clubhouse that’s not what I was thinking of. A warm glow banishing the cold of the day. The Renaissance Club is the only new that I've seen can compare to this, and that has much better land.
Thanks Robin. A very fine job, well done.
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Tony,
I greatly enjoyed our visit to JCB yesterday and concur with your thoughts. A second play confirms the quality that Robin has brought to such unpromising land.
I don’t think the 18th is unreasonably difficult, though. It’s a long uphill dogleg par 4 which few will be able to reach in two. As a golfer of modest length but reasonable accuracy I am accustomed to playing long par 4s as three shotters and the 18th is fairly straightforward if approached with that mindset.
The low road offers a decent lay up area short of the bunkers either side. My well judged 9iron from there left me with a 6ft uphill putt for par.
I think it’s a great hole, which punishes the greedy and less than perfectly accurate but offers a safe bogey for the steady strategic player.
If only I’d made the putt! 🤣
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Please don't say you were there on Sunday? What rotten luck with the weather.
Tony: Delighted that you got there and had an enjoyable time. It's obviously a bit late in the season to see it at its best, but hopefully it was still in decent shape for you.
On 18, are you talking about the large central bunker or the one to the left? I did delete a bunker on the approach to 13, but left the shaping of the swale in place. You can see what remains on Sean's photo. 18 would be the same sort of thing, but that bunker is perhaps the most frequented on the course and I think is fitting for the final hole. It is a tough hole for the handicap golfer, but Duncan seems to have worked out that the way to take the stress out of it is to play it as a Par 5 and take the nett par the SI will give you.
The clubhouse is supposed to be much closer to the 1st tee and was planned to be located around the ruins of Woodseat Hall. Maybe one day it will happen, but the Academy clubhouse is a comfortable base for the time being. None of us involved imagined that a view of the driving range was what we were aiming to give you before and after golf, but it sure works for tempting you to have a warm up beforehand, which given the 1st tee shot, is no bad thing.
I hope you will see it in the summer next time.
Cheers
Robin
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We were actually there on Monday Robin. It was pretty grim for the first 10 holes but brightened up after that. I thought the course stood up really well considering all the rain it’d had. The greens were still in really good shape and, apart from a very small number of low spots, the fairways were also remarkably dry. Going a few yards into the rough (as I’m afraid I did on a few occasions) showed just what a great job you’ve done with the drainage.
I think I probably triggered the debate about the 18th as, stood on the tee and having seen it 5 or 6 times before, I said that I thought it was the most difficult par 4 I’d ever played and i stand by that. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing; I actually think it’s a very, very good hole. The bunker Tony is talking about is the one on the left of the fairway. For the vast majority playing it as a par 5 it does force the lay up down that side to be much further from the green than one would like. I’ve been guilty every time of trying to get as close to the green as I can (it’s a par 4 after all, the voice in my head says) rather than taking my medicine. In that case, it becomes very easy to take 6! Duncan was much more sensible.
The more I play the course, the more impressed I am by the greens and the run-offs around them (and I really liked them the first time!). They are in a completely different class to any other ‘modern’ course that I’ve seen.
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I think the eighteenth is an epic hole, one of the best long par fours I've ever seen. The only problem with it is the knowledge that when the pros get there, the epic hole will be a drive and a nine iron. But that's not Rob's fault.
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51651789752_1d8d8f6c30_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mGhVzb)18th Hole2 (https://flic.kr/p/2mGhVzb) by Duncan Cheslett (https://www.flickr.com/photos/185291780@N03/), on Flickr
Most players seem compelled to take on the bunkers visible from the tee on the 18th. It requires an uphill shot of 250 yards to clear them from the yellow tees. The more direct shot over the trees is simply not possible for the vast majority of golfers.
As you can see though, the more conservative 200 yard drive laying up short of the bunkers leaves a similar distance to the green, and one that has the benefit of not following a line directly over a chain of bunkers.
3 wood, 6 iron, wedge.
Old man's golf has a lot to recommend it!
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I was channeling my inner Frasier Crane and needed something to criticise something just to show ...what a clever chap I am. But just like Frasier hubris often follows.
Driving into the wind I finished just short of the centreline bunker. I was faced with one of the most difficult lies I've ever encountered. Ball 12" above my feet and on a severely downhill slope! I laid up but chose the 'high' rd(sic). This left an ideal distance in but with the ball 18" above my feet. Just catching this a little fat, left an impossible up and down.
I really didn't fancy the the look of the left hand 'lower' route. A harder shot off that lie and it looked downhill all the way to the bunker, with the best you could hope for was a blind approach. Fooled once again apparently.
Tutto nel mondo è burla ... Tutti gabbati!...Ma ride ben chi ride La risata / "Everything in the world is a jest ... but he laughs well who laughs the final laugh". You should be smiling Robin.
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Tony,
The pitch from 100 yards out on the lower left hand route may be semi blind, but it is up the slope of the green.
From the right hand fairway the viciously tilted green is canted across and away from you.
Much like at the 3rd at Cavendish the low road offers the best chance of getting a short approach close.
This is not a green you want to be trying to hit from 200 yards out. Not only is it fiendishly protected by sand all the way, keeping the ball within 2 putt territory even if you make it is in the lap of the gods.
I’m going to stick to dinking it up the middle of the low road… 😎
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We played the forward tee on 18. The hole was more right side and I approached from the right with no bunker to carry as the hole was on the right side. It looked to be much better to approach from right with our hole location. Could see the entire flag. The putt from the right was fine. However, if I played from the island tee I would probably stay left. Its likely not worth trying to get right on the drive or second to set up the short approach if the hole is on the right. I would need to see the hole again to be sure though.
Ciao
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Here are a couple of pictures from the drone that may or may not help! I don't think that too many of the average golfers playing JCB will be able to get over the bunkers successfully and as James says it plays for the vast majority as a par 5.
The view from the tee. Many will end up right of the bunkers and from there it's definitely a par 5.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5675d7b05a5668f86eba496c/1636010558212-LKP3UZZPBMJWXZ6SK3OR/unnamed.jpg?format=700)
The layup short and left of the next set of bunker as Duncan suggests means you are not really worried about the sand with your second. You should try and get it as close as possible to them though or face a long third.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5675d7b05a5668f86eba496c/1636011299864-SWAJ4F0YOQY38K2PDCEL/IMG-3187.jpg?format=750)
(https://www.golfclubatlas.com//https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5675d7b05a5668f86eba496c/1636011299864-SWAJ4F0YOQY38K2PDCEL/IMG-3187.jpg?format=775w)
Here's one from a little closer to the green. As always, the drone flattens things but if you have played 'The Cheslett Line' you have a semi blind uphill shot and a horrible bunker short to deal with. But I think I agree with Duncan, it's the sensible way to keep your score down to finish your round.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5675d7b05a5668f86eba496c/1636010559802-0CAQCECDWZR3815ON1TL/IMG_3183.jpg?format=700)
(https://www.golfclubatlas.com//https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5675d7b05a5668f86eba496c/1636010559802-0CAQCECDWZR3815ON1TL/IMG_3183.jpg?format=775w)
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David
Many thanks for chipping in with the drone pics. You've saved me from trawling through my archive for vastly inferior photos.
For what it is worth, I will plan my route to the green based on whether the hole is cut to the left or right of the lion's mouth bunker. We give you a preview of the hole location as you walk from Green 16 to Tee 17. If it's to the right, I like to get up to the high road with my second shot and if its to the left I'll stay low. This is if i'm playing it as a 3-shotter, which I am unless i've hit a career draw around the corner.
The bunker that Duncan lays up short of is the 'Merion' bunker, in honour of the bunker to the left side of their 18th in that famous Hogan photo. The incline struck me as being very similar.
Tony got snagged on the hillside that gets me quite often too. For a long time I asked them to mow the fairway up to the central bunkers , as it was thick semi-rough for the first few years. With the improved fairway drainage they did it this year.
Sean and I played from the forward tees earlier this year, and from there it is a very sporty 346-yard Par 4. The second string of central bunkers equally works as the strategic hazard from that tee, as well as a potent one on the long second shot. The third bunker up the chain is actually a mistake. There was a small island of semi-rough on the grading plan, which our shaper Bob Harrington mistook for a bunker. When I saw it I thought it looked good, so we kept 'Bob's bunker'.
Lots of space was left to the right of the green for tournament grandstands and hospitality pavilions, if they are ever needed. The white house is where course manager Euan Grant used to live. It's been converted into a luxurious pair of apartments for JCB guests.
I'd like to trim off the end of that hedgerow which pokes out into the line of sight from the tee and soften the angle of the steep bank that you drive over, but the main power cable for the JCB factory runs under the fairway there and we definitely don't want to snag that!
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I think the eighteenth is an epic hole, one of the best long par fours I've ever seen. The only problem with it is the knowledge that when the pros get there, the epic hole will be a drive and a nine iron. But that's not Rob's fault.
Yes it is. He could have made 200 yards longer. What was the man thinking ?! ;)
Niall
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I think the eighteenth is an epic hole, one of the best long par fours I've ever seen. The only problem with it is the knowledge that when the pros get there, the epic hole will be a drive and a nine iron. But that's not Rob's fault.
Yes it is. He could have made 200 yards longer. What was the man thinking ?! ;)
Niall
He'd have had to extend the island where the tee is by quite a lot to do that...
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I think the eighteenth is an epic hole, one of the best long par fours I've ever seen. The only problem with it is the knowledge that when the pros get there, the epic hole will be a drive and a nine iron. But that's not Rob's fault.
Yes it is. He could have made 200 yards longer. What was the man thinking ?! ;)
Niall
He'd have had to extend the island where the tee is by quite a lot to do that...
I've investigated it, but it would spoil the look of the 17th hole to have the 18th tee in the background.
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I think the eighteenth is an epic hole, one of the best long par fours I've ever seen. The only problem with it is the knowledge that when the pros get there, the epic hole will be a drive and a nine iron. But that's not Rob's fault.
Yes it is. He could have made 200 yards longer. What was the man thinking ?! ;)
Niall
He'd have had to extend the island where the tee is by quite a lot to do that...
I've investigated it, but it would spoil the look of the 17th hole to have the 18th tee in the background.
Robin
Not sure if you have thought of having the pro tee on the other side of the island on 17th which straightens up 18th hole and makes it probably more visible to see more of the fairway and green - it would be hidden from view from the 17th tee - a nice modern crossover hole :) however the tour probably say too much interference and safety issues
Cheers
Ben
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I have that idea tabled Ben. It would require another bridge crossing though to avoid walking back across the green or through the bunker. It's quite a nice view from there, but only of relevance to the very best golfer. Too far to the fairway for the amateur.
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Chain ferry! Chain ferry! Chain ferry!
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I have that idea tabled Ben. It would require another bridge crossing though to avoid walking back across the green or through the bunker. It's quite a nice view from there, but only of relevance to the very best golfer. Too far to the fairway for the amateur.
You could have a floating tee at that end :) so you could vary the distance of the hole
Chain ferry is an option however you could have a drone taxi instead
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Do you remember when you used to get a goody bag at these places, usually full of tees, a ball marker and sometimes a strokesaver ? Why not hand out a snorkel and pair of flippers instead ?
Niall
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I have that idea tabled Ben. It would require another bridge crossing though to avoid walking back across the green or through the bunker. It's quite a nice view from there, but only of relevance to the very best golfer. Too far to the fairway for the amateur.
I noticed you eyeing up that tee shot during our round. My first thought was about crossing the water and how an added bridge may spoil the scene of 17.
Ciao
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Robin Island and Pooh Sticks while walking across the bridge to/from it?:)
Atb
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Sometimes your wishes do come true and so a big thanks to JR and ID. Even 24 hrs torrential rain (which only stopped as we reached the turn) couldn’t kill the fun.
Even the full name, JCB Golf and Country Club, is not your typical of the GB&I experience. It has the smallest Car Park I’ve ever seen at a GC and the changing room is positively minute, a few padded bench seats and complimentary lockers, but with plentiful showers etc. The common area are comparatively spacious and the service is efficient but never overbearing. I was really surprised that a world beating firm having built this right by their HQ did so little to promote their brand – to the point where I was a tad disappointed not to learn more. Warm up facilities are nearer at hand than anywhere else I can think of. Everything was “just so”. Its what I want from somewhere “exclusive”, I want to feel comfortable.
As the first is a hundred yards away it is readily apparent this is a cartball course. However I had never previously appreciated the relief from the rain they provide, so I won’t moan too much.
Without going into detail I’ll just say I loved every hole. There’s lots of visual distractions some holes play easier than they look with large landing areas and others more difficult e.g as we are tempted by the thought of taking on the doglegs. Loved the use of centreline bunkers. The greens are very large and have some surprisingly severe definition of discrete areas within them e.g. 17 and 18. Really a great set of greens that define the course, without any feeling of repetition or the dreaded scalloped edge construction. Some of the areas in front of greens have to be seen to be believed and the run off areas surprised and delighted me. Chipping off short grass gives a chance to recover (or make a fool of oneself). The colour of the sand seemed just right. The whole flowed seamlessly, offering a series of interesting challenges.
The 11th seemed almost like an homage to the 10th at the Belfry?(that’s meant as a compliment)
Negatives? Still not 100% convinced that the style of bunker edging is perfectly suited to inland Britain. Whilst the before photo's in the clubhouse show what a great job has been done creating "naturally undulating" fairways, in one or two places the mounding in the rough is a little obvious - including either side of the drive in. Aesthetics aside, the only criticism I'd offer of playability is that the 18th is unremittingly difficult from drive to green. Could not the left hand fairway bunker in front of the green, be filled in and a flat area be created allowing The Rabbit a chance to safely negotiate a path to get on in 3? I probably would still have got myself in trouble, but there was no choice but to try and play off pretty severely sloping lies. On the whole the course coped really well with the deluge but our group did lose 2 balls – presumably plugged in the rough.
But back in the clubhouse that’s not what I was thinking of. A warm glow banishing the cold of the day. The Renaissance Club is the only new that I've seen can compare to this, and that has much better land.
Thanks Robin. A very fine job, well done.
JCB gives Renaissance a serious run. I wouldn't be surprised if loads of well travelled folks think JCB is the better course.
Ciao
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I may post more detailed comments in the coming days but after 36 here at the weekend, I think JCB is quite clearly the most impressive GB&I modern inland course that I have seen.
The raw site perhaps did not match that of many of the estate courses we’ve seen pop up in the last 30 years; but the architecture is far more compelling. And in truth, there was much more variety in elevation change and topography than I was expecting. Add to that the optimal use of natural glades, copses, trees and water courses and the quality of different golf holes really stands out.
What an opener! Tell me a first hole that beats it? No-one really mentions the 5th but it is a superb par-3, my favourite of a set of really strong one shotters. And the 11th probably just pips the 12th as we get a really great pair of shortish par-4’s.
Hopefully more people will eventually get to experience Robin’s design for it needs to be played to be fully appreciated.
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Thanks again Sean and thanks Robin for chiming in!
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Thanks Jason.
All, I added some pix to the tour taken during the Seniors Legends event back in August. There was a mixed bag of weather with it being filthy on the final day. The greens and fairways looked playable to me, but the last day was cancelled due to safety reasons.
A few pix of the event. Ernie on 10, playing the same tees we did! It was a disastrous back nine which cost him the tournament given the final day would be cancelled. Despite the poor play, Ernie seemed fine yucking it up with VJ the next day.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172850720_2e2c3cd192_b.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172850720_2e2c3cd192_b.jpg)
17
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172415676_fa3f738a99_b.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172415676_fa3f738a99_b.jpg)
Ciao
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Favourite holes, Sean?
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Favourite holes, Sean?
Ally
4-6, 9-11, 14 & 17. Wonderful set of 3s. Unusually for me, I like the set of 5s.
Ciao
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Favourite holes, Sean?
Ally
4-6, 9-11, 14 & 17. Wonderful set of 3s. Unusually for me, I like the set of 5s.
Ciao
Agreed on the 3’s, the 5th being my favourite of a really strong bunch with the 9th just picture perfect.
The 5’s have loads going on which is great to see: Despite 13 being entirely manufactured with a significant water feature, it may well be my favourite, closely followed by 10.
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Favourite holes, Sean?
Ally
4-6, 9-11, 14 & 17. Wonderful set of 3s. Unusually for me, I like the set of 5s.
Ciao
Agreed on the 3’s, the 5th being my favourite of a really strong bunch with the 9th just picture perfect.
The 5’s have loads going on which is great to see: Despite 13 being entirely manufactured with a significant water feature, it may well be my favourite, closely followed by 10.
I don't have a good sense of the 13th as we played a tee making the hole straight. Given the blind tee shot, can the water be reached from the normal tee?
Ciao
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Possibly...if you are a bomber and are playing off the forward tees.
From the furthest forward possible tee off position to the closest point of the lake is 233 yards, but it is appreciably uphill and on that line you would have to go over the two oak trees that split the fairway.
If you bomb one down the left fairway from the yellows, the run out is about 280. Off the white tee 315 and back tee 340.
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Possibly...if you are a bomber and are playing off the forward tees.
From the furthest forward possible tee off position to the closest point of the lake is 233 yards, but it is appreciably uphill and on that line you would have to go over the two oak trees that split the fairway.
If you bomb one down the left fairway from the yellows, the run out is about 280. Off the white tee 315 and back tee 340.
Thanks Doc. Maybe the Legends were playing a forwardish tee because this tee shot seemed problematic for them. I did note on some holes they were nowhere near the back tees.
Ciao
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It looks as though JCB will be hosting LIV next season in place of the Centurion course. I wonder if Brooks and Bryson will be playing from the forward tees ?
Niall
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I'd caught a whiff of this a couple of months ago.
Guess i'll have to figure out how to watch LIV now. Haven't watched a single minute so far.
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Won't you be on the first tee beside the announcer letting off the fireworks or whatever they get up to at a LIV event ?
Niall
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No...and i won't be part of the flash mob either!
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No...and i won't be part of the flash mob either!
Thought LIV Golf is now part of PGA Tour and Saudi's merger ::)