Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Mark_Fine on September 22, 2020, 09:34:19 PM
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I guess he was “in a zone” when he played St. Andrews and many of the other great links courses ;D
https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/gary-player-cutting-down-trees-payne-valley-cup (https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/gary-player-cutting-down-trees-payne-valley-cup)
I love Gary but architecture is not his strong suit. Trees definitely have a place and make sense on many courses but most of the trees being cut down were not there in the first place and were planted by arborists or those who knew little about golf architecture.
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Wait...we need better forest management!!! Just look at California and that awful policy ;D
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Maybe we can thin out the California forest’s and replant the trees on golf courses ;D I know whose golf courses we could start with :)
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I guess he was “in a zone” when he played St. Andrews and many of the other great links courses ;D
https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/gary-player-cutting-down-trees-payne-valley-cup (https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/gary-player-cutting-down-trees-payne-valley-cup)
I love Gary but architecture is not his strong suit. Trees definitely have a place and make sense on many courses but most of the trees being cut down were not there in the first place and were planted by arborists or those who knew little about golf architecture.
The tree removal boom has been the best thing to happen to golf in 50 years.
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GP said, ranted (?), the same thing on the Payne's Valley event telecast. Didn't seem like many trees on that course, a course that his presence was effectively promoting.
atb
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I could be wrong but I recall him also saying during his rant on the Payne Valley broadcast that trees should be added to courses. He cited Pine Valley and ANGC as examples of great courses with trees.
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He played my home course this year and his complaint was the elevated greens since he sucked two shots back down the hill. He suggested that the members must hate that. Meanwhile the place was crawling with happy golfers.
I give him a pass. He’s a great player and therefore thinks he has a great architectural sense. He engaged with the membership and even gave a youngster a lesson.
He’s a treasure even if he says things we find off.
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Mike,
Gary played at Lehigh CC a few weeks ago. He called the course “paradise and a real treasure”. Only hole he questioned was #15 (I think because it didn’t suit his draw and he can’t carry the ball as far as he used to). Again, great guy with strong opinions but you have to question some of his architectural ideas.
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Mike,
Gary played at Lehigh CC a few weeks ago. He called the course “paradise and a real treasure”. Only hole he questioned was #15 (I think because it didn’t suit his draw and he can’t carry the ball as far as he used to). Again, great guy with strong opinions but you have to question some of his architectural ideas.
You only need to take a trip around his course at Lyman Orchards in Middlefield, Connecticut to “question some of his architectural design ideas.”
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So I guess he wouldn’t endorse my concept of a Memorial Stump program.
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Maybe we can thin out the California forest’s and replant the trees on golf courses ;D I know whose golf courses we could start with :)
-1 ;)
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GP said, ranted (?), the same thing on the Payne's Valley event telecast. Didn't seem like many trees on that course, a course that his presence was effectively promoting.
atb
It was indeed a rant on TGC yesterday.
He called it “deforestation” and made it analogous to the Amazon rain forest and what a tragedy it has become.
Ok, Gary...do some more push ups....we still love you... ;D
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I saw that and actually played in a group behind Gary Player last month at my club. (Which, BTW, has removed hundreds of trees over the years.) After golf we chatted a bit and he did not mention tree removal, but he was very talkative on many other topics. Love his passion and he's rarely without opinion on things related to this game.
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I could be wrong but I recall him also saying during his rant on the Payne Valley broadcast that trees should be added to courses. He cited Pine Valley and ANGC as examples of great courses with trees.
His citation did not seem to recognize how many trees have been removed from Pine Valley.
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To me, the statement and many responses seem to echo the black and white arguments that prevail these days. If you are against trees, you can't be for them, etc.
Many courses are built on naturally wooded sites, the gca should make it reflect the site, not arbitrarily cut them out to make a links course. There is probably a bit more justification for taking a cornfield and trying to add trees for beauty and shade, although we can all name parkland courses that over did that, and that is what the reaction is all about, I think.
Regarding Forrest's forest management (or should that be Forrest management?) the old idea of conservation and management got downplayed in the environmental movement, but it really has some value. All courses should look at (in contrast to Mr. Players "they should figure it out" comment, when in fact, "You can't beat Mother Nature" should be the applicable sound bite) tree management plans.
Short version, removing trees that make agronomy suffer, i.e., shade greens and tees on morning sun, and given they use more water than turf or natives, any future greens committee shouldn't be quite as committed to tree lined golf courses as they were. Designating areas for clumps of trees, watered by underground drip only is probably the middle of the road position that most courses should take.
BTW, Payne's Valley was, I think, built in mountains, which requires a lot of earthmoving to level cross slopes, etc. More trees are naturally removed on those kind of grading intensive sites. If they were going to save the trees, it would be in a nice stack for later use as firewood.....
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Having played more than a few over-treed NYC Metro area parkland courses I do have a slightly contrary opinion.
I think everyone is in agreement when trees overhang fairways, and change shots and strategy.
But too many places have taken out trees to benefit agronomy in an effort to grow higher, thicker, more punitive rough. Nothing is more annoying than wide playing corridors with narrow fairway and incessant over-green "healthy" rough. What's the sense? I think I would prefer the trees with playable rough.
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I didn't listen to the whole thing. Maybe he was referencing how Johnny Miller supposedly bulked up and ruined his career by excessive wood chopping?
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Gary sounds like 75% of the membership at most tree lined clubs - pre removal.
When he first started talking I was nodding my head at the water conservation part, then he moves on to trees and I was like "huh"?
Actually at the site of those course there weren't many trees, a lot of small scrubby cedars and bramble. They're more like high plateaus instead of real mountains
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If he is so concerned about water, maybe he should rearchitect his course at Mission Hills to get rid of the ponds and their water loss to evaporation.
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He is a character for sure. I played with him years ago in a senior pro am. He has an opinion on everything and almost all of those opinions are nuts. All you could do was politely listen and then chuckle when he wasn’t looking. He is a treasure and you have to respect his contribution to the game. Therefore, we all gave him a pass and pretended to be interested. ;D
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Having played more than a few over-treed NYC Metro area parkland courses I do have a slightly contrary opinion.
I think everyone is in agreement when trees overhang fairways, and change shots and strategy.
But too many places have taken out trees to benefit agronomy in an effort to grow higher, thicker, more punitive rough. Nothing is more annoying than wide playing corridors with narrow fairway and incessant over-green "healthy" rough. What's the sense? I think I would prefer the trees with playable rough.
Time to remove the most heinous tree in all of Westchester and allow the 18th to play as it should!!
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So I guess he wouldn’t endorse my concept of a Memorial Stump program.
Ha! Love it...
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I guess he was “in a zone” when he played St. Andrews and many of the other great links courses ;D
https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/gary-player-cutting-down-trees-payne-valley-cup (https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/gary-player-cutting-down-trees-payne-valley-cup)
I love Gary but architecture is not his strong suit. Trees definitely have a place and make sense on many courses but most of the trees being cut down were not there in the first place and were planted by arborists or those who knew little about golf architecture.
In looking at planning of a restoration recently, I went back and read the Board of Directors' minutes back to when the course was built by a famous architect. The minutes were full of references to gifts of trees being offered by members, and the Board accepting them and telling the Superintendent to plant them wherever he wanted. No planning at all. And no consultation with the architect.
Now we have to take out many trees to get it back to what it was intended to be!
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Is he seriously comparing cutting down trees on golf courses to cutting down virgin rainforest in the Amazon? Makes me wonder if he's still got all his marbles...
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It sure appears that Gil Hanse and WF sympathize with Player. Although I'm sure many trees have been removed by Gil and others over the years, trees remain a major obstacle for wayward shots, as they should be in a parkland course.