Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: cary lichtenstein on September 21, 2020, 11:24:39 AM
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Just as Tiger Woods got everyone into the gym, Bryson is going to get everyone into the weight room and put on MUSCLE, MAY not weight gain, but the future of dominant players are going to follow the Bryson Model.
What an exciting 4 days of golf and to see this match up of 2 young studs is going to change golf and golf course architecture. I can see enormous deep bunkers, ala Scotland & Ireland being added in the future to bring back stragety into the game, but this is the future unless they ban the current driver size and ball, and make a tournament ball, but it will always favor the longer hitter no matter what you do. Distance Matters
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It remains to be seen if these young guys, and their back-torquing swings, can have the same staying power on tour that Nicklaus, Palmer, Player and others had.
Tiger...?...he crapped out in 2008 and took 10+ YEARS to get back into playing shape.His knee, his back...heck, the mental toll that lead to substance abuse...all combined to limit his ability to overcome Jack as the GOAT.
A complementary question may be: Will this new breed of new swingers create shorter, more concentrated careers on tour?
You really think Bryson the "Meat stick" can sustain that lash competitively for another 20 years?
I'll take the under on that.
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It remains to be seen if these young guys, and their back-torquing swings, can have the same staying power on tour that Nicklaus, Palmer, Player and others had.
Respectfully, I think your question is being answered every week by old and young. Phil is as long as he’s ever been, and at a lower weight than he’s been in perhaps a couple decades too. Rory has, in my opinion, one of the most flexible swings on tour, generates tremendous lower back torque, and seems to be doing quite well after double digit years as a pro.
There have been many gradual moments of obvious change with regard to golf physics. This weekend at Winged Foot was something else entirely. The combined effects of excruciatingly slow play and unchecked technology have put some players in a category that we’ve never seen before. Majors have a way of laying bare golf’s issues.
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Dustin Johnson is 36 and has managed to win consistently on tour over a dozen years (so far), although only one major.
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Time will tell if Bryson can maintain this level of play and conditioning. He is a top player for sure, and his record as an amateur and professional thus far attest to that. But, I doubt that his technique, skill and strategy can hold up over time. We'll see what happens at the Masters, where there is no rough and plenty of guys bombing it.
By the way, Ian, Tiger has nearly had a hall of fame career since 2008. He has won 17 times, with the 2019 Masters, the 2018 Tour Championship, 6 victories in 2009, 2 in 2012, 5 in 2013 with player of the year.
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Will one-length sets of irons become more commonplace?
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Will one-length sets of irons become more commonplace?
IMO it can only increase. It is interesting concept and will gain steam, if he signs a endorsement deal with the Bryson length sets perhaps.
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I have to wonder if the Tour has been vigilant in testing over the last year with all the breaks and such due to Covid. Not often you see guys turn into beef cakes over night. Barry bonds was skinny most of his career, McGuire went from tall and lanky to just plain massive. Even knew a guy in high school who got massively big between his junior and senior year in high school. They were all on the juice...
Anecdotally at least, it fits with his ruling blowups/temper tantrums like he had at the Memorial this year...
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I don't think anyone can change them but he is definitely utilizing the physics for his benefit. I've been surprised in the trackman era how many pros still hit down on the ball with their driver when they know it costs them distance and a rudimentary knowledge of 'strokes gained' will tell you that length is more important than accuracy.
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Can we assume that Bryson has optimized the loft of his driver? Probably.
Apparently it only has 5.5* of loft, but he hits the driver very high and has a long carry, but he gets less roll than others - like Wolff. Whe would he hit is so high with a low-lofted driver? Hitting it while the clubhead is on an upward path?
Does Bryson consider changing the loft on his driver depending on the firmness of the ground? I would think that there may be times when he may prefer less carry but more roll, so more horizontal force when his ball lands.
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Will one-length sets of irons become more commonplace?
Haven't dwelled into the details of BDC's clubs. While the shafts are the same length, are the other properties identical as well?
If they are, and the USGA/R&A changes the Rules accordingly, we could be carrying two shafts (in case one breaks, 13 clubheads, and one putter.
The manufacturers might not like it but it would certainly make the game affordable for more people.
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You really think Bryson the "Meat stick" can sustain that lash competitively for another 20 years?
No, but I doubt he would care. Baseball pitchers could throw softer and not wear out their arms, but they would be less effective. Same here. Unless he thinks he’s risking very near term injury, I doubt he would agree to play a little worse in exchange for longevity.
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You really think Bryson the "Meat stick" can sustain that lash competitively for another 20 years?
No, but I doubt he would care. Baseball pitchers could throw softer and not wear out their arms, but they would be less effective. Same here. Unless he thinks he’s risking very near term injury, I doubt he would agree to play a little worse in exchange for longevity.
Nailed it.
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I don’t think the question is about Bryson per se. Rather, it’s when you have 30-50 Brysons in 5-8 years and weekly one or three are likely hitting it straight enough and putting well enough to dominate. At this point all other types of players risk obsolescence if they are not willing to play that style. Obviously this mono-cultural dystopia assumes no change in equipment specs.
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You really think Bryson the "Meat stick" can sustain that lash competitively for another 20 years?
No, but I doubt he would care. Baseball pitchers could throw softer and not wear out their arms, but they would be less effective. Same here. Unless he thinks he’s risking very near term injury, I doubt he would agree to play a little worse in exchange for longevity.
He has already made that exchange - bulked up body for long term health.
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Time will tell if Bryson can maintain this level of play and conditioning. He is a top player for sure, and his record as an amateur and professional thus far attest to that. But, I doubt that his technique, skill and strategy can hold up over time. We'll see what happens at the Masters, where there is no rough and plenty of guys bombing it.
By the way, Ian, Tiger has nearly had a hall of fame career since 2008. He has won 17 times, with the 2019 Masters, the 2018 Tour Championship, 6 victories in 2009, 2 in 2012, 5 in 2013 with player of the year.
Yup, let’s start getting excited after BDC gets within a mile of Tiger’s records.
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It's amazing... science and golf! One does have to be strong to get the ball out the rough at Winged Foot.
The next 2 Majors are The Masters- November and April. Let's see how he does there. Now he may use a new driver. Stay tuned:
https://sports.yahoo.com/bryson-dechambeaus-next-trick-48-133313925.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/bryson-dechambeaus-next-trick-48-133313925.html)
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Wait until Finau or Champ max things out
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Will one-length sets of irons become more commonplace?
David- Just my own experience but I have a set of the Cobra single-length irons I bought when they first came out. I was dealing with the aftermath of 2 back surgeries and trying out the single-plane swing. Overall I discovered I am neither Moe Norman nor Bryson, but I find the single length makes the most difference in the short irons, 7-SW. Really helped me. So there's an n of 1.
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I'm not so sure being a beef cake like BDC is necessary to get the ball out the rough. Matt Wolff was outdriving him on several holes, and did better from the rough, especially in round 3 where he only hit 2 fairways and had 12 GIRs, and he's not roided out.
(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,w_720,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/shape/cover/sport/TaylorMade-Driving-Relieve-Supported-By-UnitedHeal-e521135bf41b591772a7963a5a7e67c9.jpg)
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Long term problem might be the left knee for the super long hitters. No bulk up possibility for that part of the anatomy.
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Excellent analysis by Mike Clayton here:
https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-power-1-trickery-0/
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Brysons ability to swing so hard seems to stem from his use of the Moe Norman style single lever swing where the arm and club are parallel to each other. It didn’t turn Jerry Fultz into a US Open champion, but I believe Sandy Lyle turned to it latter in his career. Hey at least he can claim the World Hickory Open Title!
Will others try this unique way of swinging a golf club?
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Excellent analysis by Mike Clayton here:
https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-power-1-trickery-0/ (https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-power-1-trickery-0/)
Agreed, good insight by Mike.
Buy the way, you all, was there a great hew and cry to Nicklaus-proof or Tiger-proof courses and equipment back then. (Ok there was some Tiger-proofing, but did that ever really prevent him from being the best way more than his contemporaries?)
My recollection is that it was just generally understood that they were the best players of their time and so be it.
THEN, AS NOW (AND FOREVER), LOWEST SCORE WINS.
Who should care if it is 6 under or 20 under or 35 under that wins a 72 hole tournament.
Why didn’t track and field try to suppress future excellence after Roger Bannister broke 4 minutes?
As the PGA Tour says itself these guys are good.
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You could say the same thing about men's tennis or bowling. There will always be a winner no matter how much the dynamics change. A sport is capable of losing popularity if it becomes more one dimensional and power oriented though- like those have and like golf is doing. Ratings for Sunday at the US Open weren't good (3rd lowest on record) and it was the biggest power hitter in the world's first major victory. What could be more exciting than that?
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"You could say the same thing about men's tennis or bowling."
I have played and watched tennis for well over 55 years. In the last 20 years, the way tennis is played has changed much more than the way golf is played.
In addition, in tennis, the size of the players has changed dramatically. Top players, both men and women, are much taller than they used to be.
DT
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I have to wonder if the Tour has been vigilant in testing over the last year with all the breaks and such due to Covid. Not often you see guys turn into beef cakes over night. Barry bonds was skinny most of his career, McGuire went from tall and lanky to just plain massive. Even knew a guy in high school who got massively big between his junior and senior year in high school. They were all on the juice...
Anecdotally at least, it fits with his ruling blowups/temper tantrums like he had at the Memorial this year...
Pleased it's not just me with that suspicion.
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Excellent analysis by Mike Clayton here:
https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-power-1-trickery-0/ (https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-power-1-trickery-0/)
Bingo!
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I have played and watched tennis for well over 55 years. In the last 20 years, the way tennis is played has changed much more than the way golf is played.
I grew up playing tennis before golf and loved watching it as well. It is a shame.
While I would prefer a rollback in golf (and tennis), I definitely don't expect anything to happen. They waited so long that anything really substantial would be unfair to players and would generate enormous resistance. And I wouldn't blame a player for resisting a change when they've based their financial livelihood on the current rules.
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The Golf Channel just reran an 'Swing Expedition' featuring BDC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aeTZTMSZcw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aeTZTMSZcw).
I found it fascinating. A merging of Moneyball with Long Drive Championship.
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Excellent analysis by Mike Clayton here:
https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-power-1-trickery-0/ (https://www.golf.org.au/clayton-power-1-trickery-0/)
"The championship is forever in forlorn search of players replicating the precision of Ben Hogan who, along with Jones and Nicklaus, is one of three four-time champions."
With apologies to Willie Anderson - the other 4-time champion.
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I have to wonder if the Tour has been vigilant in testing over the last year with all the breaks and such due to Covid. Not often you see guys turn into beef cakes over night. Barry bonds was skinny most of his career, McGuire went from tall and lanky to just plain massive. Even knew a guy in high school who got massively big between his junior and senior year in high school. They were all on the juice...
Anecdotally at least, it fits with his ruling blowups/temper tantrums like he had at the Memorial this year...
Why is is so hard to believe that a guy with an analytical mind, like Bryson, didnt simply devote himself to studying what was required to achieve his goal?
Clearly the guy is off the charts focused on what he chooses to do and obviously is blessed with natural athleticism.
Most people would be downright shocked at what "normal" people can actually achieve in terms of body transformation in a relatively short period of time. Take someone like Bryson, who also has the means to finance the diet and supplements required, and you would be amazed.
Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?
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Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?
I heard a first-hand account of an absolutely extraordinary temper tantrum several years ago, long before he started bulking up. I've also been told it wasn't an isolated incident.
So not really fair to link shithead behaviour with PEDs in Bryson's case.
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Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?
I played college athletics with several guys who took steriods. I didn't notice them being like volcano's, although I did notice them being more withdrawn. Total anecdotal, and really the one thing that I saw affecting them moreso was the acne they developed and how that affected their appearance to girls. They were embarrassed by this quite a bit and perhaps became more withdrawn as a result and upset with the tradeoffs they were making.
I took creatine back in 1997 while coaching with the team. I know it is safe now, but back then you had younger athletes getting dehydrated and was even banned for some time as it was thought of as unsafe. It was the only time I had taken it and I can attest that I got bigger, faster and stronger as it allowed me to workout longer and harder. I guess it still could, but I don't want to be bigger, that is for sure. ;D
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Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?
I heard a first-hand account of an absolutely extraordinary temper tantrum several years ago, long before he started bulking up. I've also been told it wasn't an isolated incident.
So not really fair to link shithead behaviour with PEDs in Bryson's case.
There are plenty of people who are extreme volatile and known to lose it at the drop of the hat. In the music world for example, Elton John and Axl Rose are 2 that come to mind (so we're lead to believe)
I suspect the personality type that is often associated with perfection and immense drive is possibly more at play regarding outbursts.
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Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?
I played college athletics with several guys who took steriods. I didn't notice them being like volcano's, although I did notice them being more withdrawn. Total anecdotal, and really the one thing that I saw affecting them moreso was the acne they developed and how that affected their appearance to girls. They were embarrassed by this quite a bit and perhaps became more withdrawn as a result and upset with the tradeoffs they were making.
I took creatine back in 1997 while coaching with the team. I know it is safe now, but back then you had younger athletes getting dehydrated and was even banned for some time as it was thought of as unsafe. It was the only time I had taken it and I can attest that I got bigger, faster and stronger as it allowed me to workout longer and harder. I guess it still could, but I don't want to be bigger, that is for sure. ;D
One of my best mates got into the world of steroid use as a competitive bodybuilder. It was basically cheaper for him than purchasing all the supplements that allowed him to train naturally plus he wanted to see if it afforded him greater benefits. It messed with his concentration a bit and did make him more prone to swings of mood. It also (according to him) shrunk his testicles by a third while using.
He played so social golf but according to him, being on the juice certainly didnt go hand in hand with playing a game that required control of emotion and elements of feel and touch.
I have personally used creatine many times and while cycling it, you will almost instantly gain about 4 - 6kg of weight in fluid retention. It makes you look bulky but not defined while giving you greater strength and endurance. When I look at pictures of Bryson, I see someone who appears to be large yet not necessarily ripped. I suspect he uses creatine and should he stop, he would drop about 5kg of body weight straight away.
People that instantly suspect steroids when they see someone with a gain in size have most likely never touch a pair of dumbbells in their life
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Will one-length sets of irons become more commonplace?
David- Just my own experience but I have a set of the Cobra single-length irons I bought when they first came out. I was dealing with the aftermath of 2 back surgeries and trying out the single-plane swing. Overall I discovered I am neither Moe Norman nor Bryson, but I find the single length makes the most difference in the short irons, 7-SW. Really helped me. So there's an n of 1.
N-2 Mark.
I’ve played with single length irons since BDC was 12 years old. For a different reason, not due to my swing plane. Single length enables me to continue carrying my bag with fewer clubs (7). Only carry a PW and an 8i, both 6i length. By gripping up or down and/or adjusting ball position each of those clubs is effectively three. PW is gap, PW, 9i. 8i is 9i, 8i, 7i, 6i.
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Ratings for Sunday at the US Open weren't good (3rd lowest on record) and it was the biggest power hitter in the world's first major victory. What could be more exciting than that?
I wonder if the TV ratings could be due to more competition on TV? The US Open has never had to compete with the NFL before.
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I noticed that in the last 10 US Opens, the winners have been a combined 66 under par. In the 10 Opens before that, the winners were only 14 under par. Each set of 10 contained Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Pebble Beach, Pinehurst, and Oakmont.
If we ignore par, here is the average winning score in 10 year increments going back to 1901:
2011-2020: 275
2001-2010: 279
1991-2000: 278
1981-1990: 278
1971-1980: 282
1961-1970: 281
1951-1960: 283
1941-1950: 283
1931-1940: 288
1921-1930: 293
1911-1920: 297
1901-1910: 307
For the PGA Championship, the average winning score this decade has also dropped by 4 shots.
They had been keeping things close until this decade. Scoring was pretty much frozen for 30 years and most of my life. Scoring in the 2000s was only 2 shots better than in the 1960s despite going from persimmon clubs and very average golf balls to 460cc drivers and proVs. That really isn't even noticeable as it occurred over decades. And it was further masked by reducing par for the same courses even as they got longer. I never really thought about it exactly like this before, but I think that we're finally seeing evidence of courses running out of ammo/ room to expand and unable to make conditions harsher. It was just fortunate that they were so roomy when they were build as many of the architects back then were highly aware of tech inflation and planned for more of it.
Looking at it this way, it makes sense that pressure is finally starting to build and the topic is debated more heavily.
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As an aside, another aspect of Brysons game ...his putting technique.
Curious if such a stiff, rigid putting technique will be successful on anything other than shortish putts if putting surface mowing heights were much higher.
Even for a big, huge (!) strong bloke even a moderate length putt would likely require quite a ‘whack’ using a stiff, rigid technique and ‘whack’ and putting accuracy don’t usually go together.
Atb
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Peter,
Interesting post. I suspect if todays players with todays equipment had been playing those courses at the length they played from pre-2000 and back, the winning aggregate would be well under 270. Back when long par 4s used to be 420 and most par 5s were in the 480-530 range. They would eviscerate them...
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I have to wonder if the Tour has been vigilant in testing over the last year with all the breaks and such due to Covid. Not often you see guys turn into beef cakes over night. Barry bonds was skinny most of his career, McGuire went from tall and lanky to just plain massive. Even knew a guy in high school who got massively big between his junior and senior year in high school. They were all on the juice...
Anecdotally at least, it fits with his ruling blowups/temper tantrums like he had at the Memorial this year...
Why is is so hard to believe that a guy with an analytical mind, like Bryson, didnt simply devote himself to studying what was required to achieve his goal?
Clearly the guy is off the charts focused on what he chooses to do and obviously is blessed with natural athleticism.
Most people would be downright shocked at what "normal" people can actually achieve in terms of body transformation in a relatively short period of time. Take someone like Bryson, who also has the means to finance the diet and supplements required, and you would be amazed.
Like the constant accusations that were thrown around about Tiger being on roid's, lets hear someone on this board speak from their own personal use of PED's about their experiences?
Grant, I can give you a recap of reasonably quick, golf related gains I made in 1997 WITHOUT the use of anything other than a great trainer and significant diet changes
Again 1997
I started in early March
1) I was fat
2) I was not reaching goals
3) I finally found a personal trainer that made sense to me after 4 different attempts
4) I was sent to cardiologist that specialized in athletic training and performance and did a work up
5) after my physical assessment with the trainer, he put together a program based and my medical results and my strengths and weaknesses. (It took my 2+ days to recover from the trainers assessment!)
In Early March I started
Huge diet change from a heavy carb and junk food diet to a scheduled protein based plan to regulate a too high insulin level after meals
1 hour of basic cardio 5 times per week. I mostly skated (ice or rollerblade depending on locale availability)
3 time per week basic weight training to build a decent base before actual training began
After a little over a month
Cardio started to incorporate interval training
Weight training became 4x per week and work on different body parts/sections
Diet protein calories were upped
In my third month plyometric training was added to the weight training (4x per week)
To work on power/explosiveness
In late August before blowing my wrist up I did another assessment The results were amazing
I had lost net 32 pounds but gained 19 pounds of muscle
I was actually much bigger in my legs leaner in upper body by miles. At that time we were not looking for size/mass gains but my legs just respond that way after growing up a hockey player I believe
I had gained, with the same equipment:
10 yards Carry with my driver
1 full club longer with my irons
A ridiculous ability to practice longer and not tire while practicing and playing
I had set out to make a leap in improvement as a player and accomplished this in 5 months before hitting a shot out of a bush and blowing my wrist up
The trainer and plan was a missing part of using my abilities to play. To this day it bothers me because I believe I had finally learned how to be a true professional golfer athletically
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As an aside, another aspect of Brysons game ...his putting technique.
Curious if such a stiff, rigid putting technique will be successful on anything other than shortish putts if putting surface mowing heights were much higher.
Even for a big, huge (!) strong bloke even a moderate length putt would likely require quite a ‘whack’ using a stiff, rigid technique and ‘whack’ and putting accuracy don’t usually go together.
Atb
As recommended by Pelz, Bryson doesn't whack any putts. He's got something that measures ball speed on the practice green and he works out that a stroke of given length produces a given ball speed. Then figuring out how far that speed carries a ball on the greens he's playing gives him the required stroke length.
It sounds mechanical,but the art is in fitting it to slopes.
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8)
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Maybe "physique of golf" was a more appropriate query?
[size=78%] [/size]
Pat , that's an awful story about your wrist but pretty good one about your getting fit. I'm going to start today because of your post !
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As an aside, another aspect of Brysons game ...his putting technique.
Curious if such a stiff, rigid putting technique will be successful on anything other than shortish putts if putting surface mowing heights were much higher.
Even for a big, huge (!) strong bloke even a moderate length putt would likely require quite a ‘whack’ using a stiff, rigid technique and ‘whack’ and putting accuracy don’t usually go together.
Atb
As recommended by Pelz, Bryson doesn't whack any putts. He's got something that measures ball speed on the practice green and he works out that a stroke of given length produces a given ball speed. Then figuring out how far that speed carries a ball on the greens he's playing gives him the required stroke length.
It sounds mechanical,but the art is in fitting it to slopes.
This is about putting surfaces where the grass is longer than that currently the norm, especially longer putts. It could also apply to uphill or into the wind putts or putts on a damp surface or a combination of all.
The longer the grass on the putting green the more power has to be transmitted by the putter to the ball to achieve a given distance, this essentially involves swinging the putter on a longer arc or using more wrist action.
I would suggest, I’ve experimented with such an approach myself, that with very upright angles and a rigid arms/no-wrist method such as used by BDC, it becomes more difficult to precisely strike the ball with a putter and thus roll a ball on a consistently accurate line and length when you are required to swing the putter on a longer arc.
Mind, if putting surfaces had longer grass BDC would probably carry two different styles of putters maybe with different lofts and use one with a different technique or putt with a hybrid or find some other method that would work to his benefit.
Atb
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8)
"
Maybe "physique of golf" was a more appropriate query?
Pat , that's an awful story about your wrist but pretty good one about your getting fit. I'm going to start today because of your post !
Haha good for you!!
For the record, at top levels and for safety with regular golfers, we obviously have an issue on how far a percentage of players are hitting it
Sometimes the loudest voices in this debate (seem) to dismiss the work on improving (some with fitting, some with fitness, many with both) and that can frustrate me given what I’ve personally done and witnessed with students working hard to optimize their games.
Again, I don’t have a solution, but there is a safety issue to figure out imo
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Good stuff Peter. As Kalen notes, it would be interesting to also see the average yardage of US Open venues by decade. Maybe apply a fudge factor to those lengths to reflect that not all holes are set up to play to their full length every round.
Then give the ratio of average driving lengths by decade to course lengths by decade. I don't think driving length info is available before the 1960s(?), so maybe that ratio is not possible for older USO's. There is a fair amount of info on driving lengths, even in the 1920s and 30s, in the USGA Distance Report. I will take a look.
As you probably know, in an apples to apples comparison of how long a course today would need to be to play like a 7000 yard course did in 1970, today's course needs to be about 8300 yards. Conversely, a 7400 yard course today would play something like a 6500 yard course did in 1970, a course length (Merion and few other courses excepted) most would have considered in 1970 too short for a USO or even a regular Tour event.
Bob
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When will they build an "Iron Bryson"?
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As an aside, another aspect of Brysons game ...his putting technique.
Curious if such a stiff, rigid putting technique will be successful on anything other than shortish putts if putting surface mowing heights were much higher.
Even for a big, huge (!) strong bloke even a moderate length putt would likely require quite a ‘whack’ using a stiff, rigid technique and ‘whack’ and putting accuracy don’t usually go together.
Atb
As recommended by Pelz, Bryson doesn't whack any putts. He's got something that measures ball speed on the practice green and he works out that a stroke of given length produces a given ball speed. Then figuring out how far that speed carries a ball on the greens he's playing gives him the required stroke length.
It sounds mechanical,but the art is in fitting it to slopes.
This is about putting surfaces where the grass is longer than that currently the norm, especially longer putts. It could also apply to uphill or into the wind putts or putts on a damp surface or a combination of all.
The longer the grass on the putting green the more power has to be transmitted by the putter to the ball to achieve a given distance, this essentially involves swinging the putter on a longer arc or using more wrist action.
I would suggest, I’ve experimented with such an approach myself, that with very upright angles and a rigid arms/no-wrist method such as used by BDC, it becomes more difficult to precisely strike the ball with a putter and thus roll a ball on a consistently accurate line and length when you are required to swing the putter on a longer arc.
Mind, if putting surfaces had longer grass BDC would probably carry two different styles of putters maybe with different lofts and use one with a different technique or putt with a hybrid or find some other method that would work to his benefit.
Atb
Sorry but it doesn't work that way if you actually do it correctly. I first started a zero-hinge stroke when I moved from a course with small fast greens to one with huge slow greens. Several greens on that course were around 40 yards wide or deep. I was completely lost when faced with a 70- to 8-foot putt on a slow green.
At first,for anything outside about 30 feet i pulled out a six iron and chipped. Then I started experimenting and realized I could swing the putter without any wrist action at all and control my distance with stroke length.
It took a little while to get comfortable with a stroke that took the putter shaft to almost parallel to the ground, but as long as I kept my head still I could hit putts dead solid. The effect on my lag putting was magical.
Now, I probably couldn't do it today without a couple of practice sessions because 1) the greens got fast before I moved away 20 years ago, and 2) I've played most of my golf at a course with tiny greens during that time.
However, I've been playing Red Mountain Ranch in AZ the last winter and a half, and the greens are not only bigger, but with big elevation changes I've had to work on my old method.
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I am far from convinced, the opposite in fact, but am glad you found it helpful.
Atb
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Professional golf is an exhibition sport and for me I find bomb and gouge golf to be boring to watch on television. I want to see players have to hit every club in the bag and I want to see players successful with different styles of play. Television golf may lose its luster if the golfing fan can no longer relate to the game.
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"I want to see players successful with different styles of play. I want to see players successful with different styles of play."
Jim L. -
Barely 6 weeks ago Collin Morikawa won the PGA with as "classic" a golf game as you will see these days. I wouldn't give up hope just yet. ;)
DT
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8)
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Maybe "physique of golf" was a more appropriate query?
Pat , that's an awful story about your wrist but pretty good one about your getting fit. I'm going to start today because of your post !
Let me know how it goes. I've been "inspired" numerous times, but have not been able to jump start it, now going on for 10+ years. No doubt in my mind that getting fit would lead to much better golf. A lot to be said for Bomb and Gouge. I just wish I could do it. A lot more fun than hitting 11 fairways and 7 greens, my YTD average.
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With a hat-tip to Padraig, what are the ramifications for the LPGA?
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"what are the ramifications for the LPGA?"
Pete P. -
I think you will see bigger, stronger women emerging to play golf at the highest levels over the next 10-20 years. It is not uncommon at all to see women 5'10" or taller now ranked among the best women tennis players. The same may very well develop in golf.
DT
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I don't know why people would assume that Bryson will have back problems just because he's swinging hard. He's got a lot of muscle to support that hard swing.
Back problems in golf seem to be a mystery. Fred Couples struggled with back issues most of his career despite famously practicing very little compared to other pro golfers, and while he was long he sure wasn't putting a lot of visible effort into his swings. Jack was one of the longest hitters on tour for years, and his back held up just fine. Had he been as into fitness as Gary Player he might have lengthened his career and squeezed out a few more majors (especially in 1998 when he just needed to make a few putts on the back nine)
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I don't know why people would assume that Bryson will have back problems just because he's swinging hard. He's got a lot of muscle to support that hard swing.
Back problems in golf seem to be a mystery. Fred Couples struggled with back issues most of his career despite famously practicing very little compared to other pro golfers, and while he was long he sure wasn't putting a lot of visible effort into his swings. Jack was one of the longest hitters on tour for years, and his back held up just fine. Had he been as into fitness as Gary Player he might have lengthened his career and squeezed out a few more majors (especially in 1998 when he just needed to make a few putts on the back nine)
Jack had back problems for many years-as far back as I can remember.
"Jack Nicklaus: Experimental stem cell therapy curbed chronic back pain
Jack Nicklaus has endured debilitating back pain[/size] [/color]his entire life and in 2016 underwent experimental stem cell therapy in Munich, Germany. [/font][/color]Nicklaus[/color][/font][/size] [/color]back pain[/font][/color] has been at an “eight or nine out of 10 on the [/font][/color]pain[/font][/color] scale” for decades, he tells CNN"[/font][/color]
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Had he been as into fitness as Gary Player he might have lengthened his career and squeezed out a few more majors (especially in 1998 when he just needed to make a few putts on the back nine)
Doug you bring back one of the true disappointments in my golf majors memory of Jack at 58 almost doing it again. What a great week and you are totally right that if he had dropped a couple more putts on the back he would have been the leader in the clubhouse and O Meara would have had big pressure. Great week for him and just like we pulled for Watson at Turnberry and a to a lesser extent Norman the year prior.
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The golf swing in general is not the best thing for the back with all of the twisting and torque for full shots. BDC will no doubt be fine for awhile with youth on his side, but the breakdowns will come soon enough, and the extra muscle won't help much to prevent further injury. Beefing up only means the failure point is transferred to the next weakest parts down the line (joints and tendons).
Offensive lineman in football run into this all the time with the pressures they exert on their legs, and nearly all of them wear knee braces as thier knees won't handle the increased loads, (in many cases its mandatory that they have to use them).
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I don't think it's the golf swing that produces back problems, it's more your inherited genes and the spine structure you are born with and whether or not it undergoes degenerative changes. My mom was very arthritic, I have it in my shoulder, neck, back, hip, fingers and feet, so does my sister.
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8) Yep, physics in play, but I'm thinking that maybe Bryson can cross-train as a lineman
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