Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: David_Madison on August 11, 2020, 01:45:42 PM
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Anyone know of a course where both nines end with par-3's? Never ran into one or even heard of a course having the 9th and 18th be par-3's until I played one yesterday -- Cape Fear National near Wilmington, NC. Any others out there?
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David,
I may be wrong but I suspect that the architect didn't plan it that way. I played there last year and it felt like perhaps a change of ownership from original developer may have relocated the clubhouse.
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Aiken Golf Club, Chattanooga, Midvale, Paramount, Oak Hills (San Antonio)
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David,
I may be wrong but I suspect that the architect didn't plan it that way. I played there last year and it felt like perhaps a change of ownership from original developer may have relocated the clubhouse.
Thanks - just seemed really weird. In a strange way it might not be a terrible thing, kinda' like a short 19th hole to settle bets. But here you get to do it at the end of each nine.
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David,
I may be wrong but I suspect that the architect didn't plan it that way. I played there last year and it felt like perhaps a change of ownership from original developer may have relocated the clubhouse.
Looking at old aerials of the course's construction, It appears the clubhouse has always been in that location.
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Paramount CC in New City, NY
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Glens Falls Country Club
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Interesting question. Not to hijack, but polarizing moreso than 9th, would be the 1st and 18th? Never seen that.
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Fox Hollow Golf Club in Branchburg/Whitehouse NJ.
Used to play there a bunch 20 years ago when my cousin was member.
IIRC both were drop-shottish par 3's over a pond.
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Thanks all -- I thought that I may have found a total one off but it looks like there are some pretty decent courses out there with this configuration. There must be something unusual about the siting of the clubhouse that makes having the two nines come back to it with par-3's the only possible thing to do as I can't imagine that it's really a desirable ending to both nines. If it was architecturally desirable wouldn't we see more of this?
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Donald Ross course in Rochester, Brooklea Country Club. Also in Rochester a RTJ Midvale CC
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Maketewah CC (Donald Ross) in Cincinnati, OH.
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The Lakes in Sydney - a long-time Australian Open venue.
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Alisal Ranch both are and both return to the clubhouse.
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I’m shocked nobody mentioned it already, but since I played it today, I’ll add Brora to the list..
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Quail Creek in Robinson, IL. It used to host a annual PGA event and is mentioned twice in Stuart Bendelow's book as two separate courses.
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Maketewah CC (Donald Ross) in Cincinnati, OH.
Maketewah definitely fits the bill, although it's not totally clear to me whether the concluding par 3s were implemented by Ross or part of the original Bendelow routing.
To David's last post questioning whether it's a desirable way to conclude both 9s vs. just forced by the occasional awkward property:
1. Maketewah is located on a pretty odd parcel of land, really. Pretty small on acreage, and pretty severe in spots, and especially right around the clubhouse, which sits atop a little hill surrounded by pretty steep dropoffs. The par 3s help navigate some of the severe terrain around the clubhouse, and I think it would've been tough to build bigger holes that lead back home. It's hard for me to envision how a par 4/5 leading to the clubhouse site would work well - the corridors for 1 and 10 both make more sense moving away from the clubhouse than they would if you reversed them. The only other way I can figure that a bigger hole leading to the clubhouse could fit with the terrain would be if 4 played more or less straight to a green maybe near the southwest portion of the little practice area out front.
2. At least in the case of the 18th, I really like the par 3 that leads right up to the clubhouse as a finishing hole. It's a short par 3 that plays in full view of an often-busy patio. The idea of playing that hole in an event with a gallery of onlookers watching everything and ready to cheer or heckle feels like a lot of fun. I get that it's a little unconventional and unusual, but I don't think there's anything inherently awkward or bad about it.
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Singapore Island Club, 'Island' Course.
atb
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Thanks all -- I thought that I may have found a total one off but it looks like there are some pretty decent courses out there with this configuration. There must be something unusual about the siting of the clubhouse that makes having the two nines come back to it with par-3's the only possible thing to do as I can't imagine that it's really a desirable ending to both nines. If it was architecturally desirable wouldn't we see more of this?
David,
As a principal in two courses---Paramount and Fox Hollow--that fit your criteria, I might be best suited to opine on the reasoning behind it. It really is a functioning of smaller properties with the clubhouses situated between two distinctly different land mass on the property's topography. Bigger properties allow for architects to find the room to route more par 4's and 5's, and smaller ones are constrained and thus forced to use par 3's to return to the clubhouse...especially when used to protect more interesting 1st holes.
Thanks for bringing up the subject. I might have to become a human trivia question answer!!
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Cardinal Hills GC Bedford, KY
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Thanks all -- I thought that I may have found a total one off but it looks like there are some pretty decent courses out there with this configuration. There must be something unusual about the siting of the clubhouse that makes having the two nines come back to it with par-3's the only possible thing to do as I can't imagine that it's really a desirable ending to both nines. If it was architecturally desirable wouldn't we see more of this?
David,
As a principal in two courses---Paramount and Fox Hollow--that fit your criteria, I might be best suited to opine on the reasoning behind it. It really is a functioning of smaller properties with the clubhouses situated between two distinctly different land mass on the property's topography. Bigger properties allow for architects to find the room to route more par 4's and 5's, and smaller ones are constrained and thus forced to use par 3's to return to the clubhouse...especially when used to protect more interesting 1st holes.
Thanks for bringing up the subject. I might have to become a human trivia question answer!!
Paramount has a good set of par three holes with 18 a particular favorite. Really an under the radar gem and a course you will want to play more than once.
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Cardinal Hills GC Bedford, KY
Respect. I've only driven past it.
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Thanks all -- I thought that I may have found a total one off but it looks like there are some pretty decent courses out there with this configuration. There must be something unusual about the siting of the clubhouse that makes having the two nines come back to it with par-3's the only possible thing to do as I can't imagine that it's really a desirable ending to both nines. If it was architecturally desirable wouldn't we see more of this?
David,
As a principal in two courses---Paramount and Fox Hollow--that fit your criteria, I might be best suited to opine on the reasoning behind it. It really is a functioning of smaller properties with the clubhouses situated between two distinctly different land mass on the property's topography. Bigger properties allow for architects to find the room to route more par 4's and 5's, and smaller ones are constrained and thus forced to use par 3's to return to the clubhouse...especially when used to protect more interesting 1st holes.
Thanks for bringing up the subject. I might have to become a human trivia question answer!!
Paramount has a good set of par three holes with 18 a particular favorite. Really an under the radar gem and a course you will want to play more than once.
Steve - Your explanation makes total sense. But now I'm thinking about perhaps the desirability of having at least one par three completing a nine, especially at a private club with a clubhouse with porches or decks so that fellow members can watch and participate as their fellow members. Seems that #18 would be the better choice from this perspective. I remember playing at my club and our 9th hole was a par-3 over water to a green that sits right below the clubhouse. The nines were reversed one day and I slam dunked the shot. Would have been so much cooler if a bunch of members were watching, a walk-off slam dunk ace but nobody was around.
Beyond the question of the property dictating the choice, I'm now seeing lots more reasons why it's beneficial to complete a nine (or maybe better yet the round) with a par-3. I used to feel it odd or not desirable, but maybe my thinking is changing on that.
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Royal St. David's (Wales)
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Saunton West and Sunny Heath.
Ciao
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Of Ran's 147, Harlech (as per Kevin's post above) fits this bill and some might argue that Goswick does too: 200 yard 9th and 260 yard 18th, which is a downhill par four on the card. Personally I think that these are the two least satisfactory holes on otherwise fab Goswick, caused by post-war loss of land to the south, but I know that several on GCA disagree...
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There was a similar thread not long ago
Castleknock in Dublin Ireland both 9 and 18 are par 3 to a double green and both over water. It was designed by Jonathan Gaunt an EIGCA member
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The Ivanhoe course at Cottonwood in Rancho San Diego finishes both 9’s with a par 3. The constraint is the Sweetwater River which cuts through the middle of the course. 9 plays parallel to it and 18 plays over it.
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Norwich Golf Course in Norwich, CT finishes both nines with a Par 3.
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Strange as it seems, three different courses close to where I live have, or at least had, both sides ending with par 3's.
Hershey CC - West Course's original routing
West Shore CC (Camp Hill, PA)
Fairview CC (Lebanon, PA)
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Church Stretton (UK) has #1 and #18 par-3s.
Of course, Mountain Shadows in Arizona meets your criteria — but I fear you were not hoping for an all-par-3 layout :)
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Right next door to Cottonwood, Singing Hills Willow Glen course finishes both 9’s with a par 3. Again the Sweetwater River is the constraint, with 9 playing over it and 18 playing to it.
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I'll see your 9th and 18th, and I'll raise you 1st and 10th.
The legendary Tan Tara Golf Club, laid out in 1968 by the inimitable Tenis Schreckengost, must certainly be the only course on this planet that opens and closes each nine with a par three hole.
https://www.tantaragc.com/ (https://www.tantaragc.com/)
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Last week, Joe Bausch and I were fortunate enough to visit and play the new Gil Hanse-designed Caprock Ranch near Valentine, Neb., and I was pleasantly surprised to find that both nines end on par-3s:
No. 9 (158 / 158 / 146 / 139 / 91 yards)
(http://philadelphia.pga.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/cr9-523.jpg)
No. 18 (213 / 196 / 190 / 168 / 120 yards)
(http://philadelphia.pga.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/cr18-523.jpg)
...the images are not appearing on my screen for whatever reason, so here are the direct URLs:
No. 9: http://philadelphia.pga.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/cr9-523.jpg
No. 18: http://philadelphia.pga.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/cr18-523.jpg
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Clinton Country Club near Lock Haven, PA finishes each nine by crossing Fishing Creek with par 3s of 125 and 90 yards, respectively.
Interestingly, the course still tips at 6800 yards, par 73.
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There's a Craig Parry designed course 45 minutes or so north of Melbourne that has 9 & 18 as par threes. Hidden Valley it is called.
The 18th is a big square island green in the middle of a huge lake. I thought crossing the rickety long bridge was scarier than the actual shot.
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Oak Hills CC in San Antonio
Former home of the Texas Open.
Was interesting to have both nines finish with pat threes.
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Operating a wiki has it's benefits, and this is one of them. I currently don't have any public data search, but I do have one for me as an admin. It's currently only single variable, and my database is woefully incomplete, but right now the following qualify:
Trussville Country Club (https://golfcourse.wiki/course/trussville_country_club-trussville), Trussville, AL
That's it. As the wiki grows and I'm able to add good search functionality, easy searches like this will become trivial.
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Wayne Golf Course, Bothell, WA (NLE)
9 was 200+. 18 was 105 max
IYKYK
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Preston Country Club in Kingwood WV.
9th plays about 150 but can be stretched to approximately 200 from the championship tees.
The 18th is about 200 but plays downhill and adds 10 from championship tees.
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Isn’t Oak Hills an old Tillinghast? I have never played it. Pat, did you play it in Texas Open? I think later on a champions Tour tournament was played there.
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Tan Tara, now known as Pendleton Creek, has par threes as holes:
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/464872_e789af88c9814589921cf650613b3818~mv2.png/v1/fit/w_1610,h_1272,q_90/464872_e789af88c9814589921cf650613b3818~mv2.webp)
It's where I passed my PAT. On "Hell Day" (pins in all the crazy locations). :P
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Isn’t Oak Hills an old Tillinghast? I have never played it. Pat, did you play it in Texas Open? I think later on a champions Tour tournament was played there.
Correct, also hosted atleast 1 Tour Championship
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Church Stretton (UK) has #1 and #18 par-3s.
Of course, Mountain Shadows in Arizona meets your criteria — but I fear you were not hoping for an all-par-3 layout :)
Reay Golf Club also has par 3s on the 1st and 18th
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I dare say a front nine that starts 3-5-5 might be a unicorn.
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;D
It would be better for me cause I drive it so bad but just don't like the par three finish. Congressional didn't do it for me for sure.
Last chance to hang out with your mates too. Rather a par five than three but like a good four the most !
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Church Stretton (UK) has #1 and #18 par-3s.
Of course, Mountain Shadows in Arizona meets your criteria — but I fear you were not hoping for an all-par-3 layout :)
Reay Golf Club also has par 3s on the 1st and 18th
I just remembered that Rey’s 9th is also a par 3 so it fits the original theme of this thread. There are 6 par 3s overall.
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I dare say a front nine that starts 3-5-5 might be a unicorn.
9 holes with 2 par 5s, 2 par 3s and 5 par 4s, with the par 4s all in a row is pretty tough to imagine being repeated often.