Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Don Mahaffey on February 10, 2020, 08:25:07 AM

Title: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on February 10, 2020, 08:25:07 AM: https://www.conciergeauctions.com/blog/wolf-point-golf-course-texas-gulf-coast-auction-no-reserve (https://www.conciergeauctions.com/blog/wolf-point-golf-course-texas-gulf-coast-auction-no-reserve)

I didn't write the brochure and I have no financial interest in any part of the sale. My only hope is it lives on as the golf course Mike and I helped create for Al.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: John Mayhugh on February 10, 2020, 08:52:57 AM: I hope so too. I'm glad to see that they mentioned low maintenance, but bet that prospective buyers would still be surprised at how economical the course design is. That would seem a big selling point, even for those with the ability to buy such a large property.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Tommy Williamsen on February 10, 2020, 09:43:54 AM: I hope this course will be purchased by someone who will allow greater access to the course. I am dying to play it.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Paul Carey on February 10, 2020, 04:29:24 PM: Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on February 10, 2020, 09:43:54 AM
I hope this course will be purchased by someone who will allow greater access to the course. I am dying to play it.

Finally, a course I have played and Tommy has yet to play. Never thought I would see that! I agree 100%. Wolf point is such a gem and a golfing pleasure that deserves to be seen. I wish I had the resources.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Pete_Pittock on February 11, 2020, 01:25:34 AM: My dream is it purchased by a pga tour player, probably based in Texas could fly down with friends, set it up for specific conditions, etc
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: George Freeman on February 11, 2020, 08:01:08 AM: GCA.com is still looking for a home club...

Only half kidding.
https://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/the-carthage-club/
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Tom_Doak on February 11, 2020, 09:42:37 AM: I'm not sure that Ran would like us to go there, and if he objects he can certainly squelch this, but it would be a VERY useful discussion for Golf Club Atlas to debate what Wolf Point is worth.

The result might not have anything to do with how much it sells for. The price is ultimately what someone is willing to pay . . . if two rich guys both wanted it as their own private playground, the price would be high. But it's been for sale for a while now with no deal, so it's probably not going to be a bidding war.

So -- what is a golf course like Wolf Point worth? Factors:

1. It's a couple of hours from a major city
2. There is a jet runway right next to it for the private-jet crowd
3. It's relatively cheap to maintain by industry standards
4. There is not a real clubhouse at present
5. There are no overnight lodging facilities, you'd have to build those
6. You can play golf year-round, although not many out-of-towners are going to go there for the hot and humid summer months

If you're going to say $8 million, you have to suggest a business plan that would support that number -- 400 national memberships at $20k each. But that wouldn't build the cabins.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Jason Topp on February 11, 2020, 10:01:03 AM: My business model would be as follows:

Open Friday through Monday
50 golfers per day
single price that covers lodging, food, all the golf you can play - customer pays for alcohol
Food made available en masse and is good but basic
Lodging is along the lines of the dormie houses in the U.K.
Landing strip covered by whatever fees are charged for such things.

Charge is $500 per day of golf/ per person - $100,000 in potential revenue each weekend. In the winter I would attempt to sell out entire weekends, perhaps to club pros in the North bringing members down.

Maybe $2.6 million in revenue per year if you can sell out six months.

I have no idea what that converts into as far as value.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Jonathan Mallard on February 11, 2020, 10:07:42 AM: Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 11, 2020, 09:42:37 AM
I'm not sure that Ran would like us to go there, and if he objects he can certainly squelch this, but it would be a VERY useful discussion for Golf Club Atlas to debate what Wolf Point is worth.

The result might not have anything to do with how much it sells for. The price is ultimately what someone is willing to pay . . . if two rich guys both wanted it as their own private playground, the price would be high. But it's been for sale for a while now with no deal, so it's probably not going to be a bidding war.

So -- what is a golf course like Wolf Point worth? Factors:

1. It's a couple of hours from a major city
2. There is a jet runway right next to it for the private-jet crowd
3. It's relatively cheap to maintain by industry standards
4. There is not a real clubhouse at present
5. There are no overnight lodging facilities, you'd have to build those
6. You can play golf year-round, although not many out-of-towners are going to go there for the hot and humid summer months

If you're going to say $8 million, you have to suggest a business plan that would support that number -- 400 national memberships at $20k each. But that wouldn't build the cabins.

This brings up yet another opportunity for the tree house to form a corporation amongst the interested to facilitate and execute....

/Watching..../
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Tom_Doak on February 11, 2020, 10:28:56 AM: Quote from: Jason Topp on February 11, 2020, 10:01:03 AM
My business model would be as follows:

Open Friday through Monday
50 golfers per day
single price that covers lodging, food, all the golf you can play - customer pays for alcohol
Food made available en masse and is good but basic
Lodging is along the lines of the dormie houses in the U.K.
Landing strip covered by whatever fees are charged for such things.

Charge is $500 per day of golf/ per person - $100,000 in potential revenue each weekend. In the winter I would attempt to sell out entire weekends, perhaps to club pros in the North bringing members down.

Maybe $2.6 million in revenue per year if you can sell out six months.

I have no idea what that converts into as far as value.

Turning a profit on 5,200 rounds per year would be very difficult. Those are Sand Hills type numbers, but without a membership dedicated to making them work.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Jason Topp on February 11, 2020, 10:39:10 AM: Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 11, 2020, 10:28:56 AM
Quote from: Jason Topp on February 11, 2020, 10:01:03 AM
My business model would be as follows:

Open Friday through Monday
50 golfers per day
single price that covers lodging, food, all the golf you can play - customer pays for alcohol
Food made available en masse and is good but basic
Lodging is along the lines of the dormie houses in the U.K.
Landing strip covered by whatever fees are charged for such things.

Charge is $500 per day of golf/ per person - $100,000 in potential revenue each weekend. In the winter I would attempt to sell out entire weekends, perhaps to club pros in the North bringing members down.

Maybe $2.6 million in revenue per year if you can sell out six months.

I have no idea what that converts into as far as value.

Turning a profit on 5,200 rounds per year would be very difficult. Those are Sand Hills type numbers, but without a membership dedicated to making them work.

I have a hard time imagining you could get more without altering the course pretty significantly.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Michael Whitaker on February 11, 2020, 10:41:18 AM: 300 members with a $10k joining fee would yield $3M for a down payment on $8M. Then, $1500 x 300 yearly dues would service $5M (30 yrs) with approximately $150-200k left over. Guest fees, etc would help cover additional overhead. Guest accommodations could be built with private investment within a rental program, the way they did at Cabot Links. You could offer a “summer member” program the way they do at Yeamans Hall for additional income during the “off” season.

Numbers might need to be tweaked, but it could work.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Jeff_Brauer on February 11, 2020, 11:03:24 AM: Tom brings up an interesting subject, probably not germane to an architectural discussion board, and possibly painful.

In my experience (which is certainly not universal) golf courses sell for the traditional 1X revenue or 3-7X profits of any other business. With history of a privately owned course and a fairly remote location, there are no numbers to base a sale price, at least for the most logical buyers like large management firms.

When golf course sales were down, I did look into buying one or two. At least 5 years ago, the price would have been 1 year's revenue because the courses I looked at had no profits to multiply. (Typically, the good biz proposition ones aren't for sale.) And, to be honest, my offers (none accepted, but one was later bought by that Chinese conglomerate) reduced the revenue price by some obvious major capital improvements that had to be done right away.

As Tom says, it would make the most sense for someone to buy it also as their private course, perhaps initiating some of the plans mentioned to at least recoup ongoing maintenance costs.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Keith Phillips on February 11, 2020, 11:20:14 AM: I've never been to Wolf Point. Is there adjacent land sufficient to build a destination along the lines of Bandon/Cabot/Streamsong/Sand Valley?
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: David Wuthrich on February 11, 2020, 11:26:10 AM: Keith, Yes, plenty of land for another course.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Kalen Braley on February 11, 2020, 11:29:42 AM: Not sure where the boundaries are exactly, but looks to have some treed areas to the west, or more open land to the east.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wolf+Point+Ranch+LLC/@28.7492913,-96.4857896,3046m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864208d4ccb69253:0xbf7149bade56fcb9!8m2!3d28.7452381!4d-96.4786754 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wolf+Point+Ranch+LLC/@28.7492913,-96.4857896,3046m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864208d4ccb69253:0xbf7149bade56fcb9!8m2!3d28.7452381!4d-96.4786754)

P.S I would think the fact that it has its own private airstrip would make it more interesting.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Michael Whitaker on February 11, 2020, 11:48:16 AM: Quote from: Kalen Braley on February 11, 2020, 11:29:42 AM

Not sure where the boundaries are exactly, but looks to have some treed areas to the west, or more open land to the east.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wolf+Point+Ranch+LLC/@28.7492913,-96.4857896,3046m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864208d4ccb69253:0xbf7149bade56fcb9!8m2!3d28.7452381!4d-96.4786754 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wolf+Point+Ranch+LLC/@28.7492913,-96.4857896,3046m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864208d4ccb69253:0xbf7149bade56fcb9!8m2!3d28.7452381!4d-96.4786754)

P.S I would think the fact that it has its own private airstrip would make it more interesting.
Easy access... 2 hour drive from Houston airport.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Ryan Hillenbrand on February 11, 2020, 11:51:33 AM: What did Dismal River go for? I thought that might be a benchmark as a private club. Obviously a longer/better playing season but only 1 course compare to two.

If someone incorporated the fishing and outdoor component like Dismal it could be a year round, multiple sport paradise.

With all the money in Texas I'd think a national membership club would go over well
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: John Kavanaugh on February 11, 2020, 12:17:22 PM: This club is for sale. Don’t say anything that you wouldn’t want said if you were the owner.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Tommy Williamsen on February 11, 2020, 12:41:37 PM: Quote from: Paul Carey on February 10, 2020, 04:29:24 PM
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on February 10, 2020, 09:43:54 AM
I hope this course will be purchased by someone who will allow greater access to the course. I am dying to play it.

Finally, a course I have played and Tommy has yet to play. Never thought I would see that! I agree 100%. Wolf point is such a gem and a golfing pleasure that deserves to be seen. I wish I had the resources.

I suspect there are bunch of courses you have played that I haven't. I have never hit a golf ball in Texas.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Buck Wolter on February 11, 2020, 01:15:13 PM: I spent some time day dreaming when I saw the initial listing -- I would think there is a sum of the parts valuation that makes more sense than as 1 chunk. If you sold off or leased the non-golf pcs you may get to a reasonable valuation on the golf (or vice versa).

My bet is some big money tech guy buys it as a bug-out spot -- he can fly out of San Jose on his G-V and have all the grass fed cattle he and his family will ever need if it hits the fan.
That airfield looks like something out of the movie American Made -- I wonder what the replacement cost of that is alone?
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Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on February 11, 2020, 02:48:12 PM: I spoke to the owner today.
Good amount of interest with quite a few visits already.
I have not been impressed at all with the marketing efforts by past brokers. But what do I know.

It’s over 1600 acres only need 400 for the golf course, highway access, airport, and cabins.

Yes you have to build cabins if that’s your model, but the power is already there and it might be the easiest place in the US to build from a jurisdictional POV

Doesn’t flood and has large drainage. Matters in this part of the world.

Raw uncleared, unfenced, unimproved land sells for $5k an acre in that area.

The land is cleared of trash trees, fenced, and three phase power with fiber, wells and shops, cattle pens...etc...already built.

I’m well aware that the selling price hardly ever matches investment in a case like this but the raw land has a market value of $7M

Forget the golf course and world class runway/hanger. Just running all the power.....wells...the stuff that adds value no matter the use

next few weeks will be interesting
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Mike Nuzzo on February 12, 2020, 01:11:28 AM: Quote from: Kalen Braley on February 11, 2020, 11:29:42 AM

Not sure where the boundaries are exactly, but looks to have some treed areas to the west, or more open land to the east.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wolf+Point+Ranch+LLC/@28.7492913,-96.4857896,3046m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864208d4ccb69253:0xbf7149bade56fcb9!8m2!3d28.7452381!4d-96.4786754 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wolf+Point+Ranch+LLC/@28.7492913,-96.4857896,3046m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864208d4ccb69253:0xbf7149bade56fcb9!8m2!3d28.7452381!4d-96.4786754)

P.S I would think the fact that it has its own private airstrip would make it more interesting.

The water front to the east is the property boundary - yes water access. The western edge is angled from north west to the south east - it kind of looks like a mirror image of Tennessee.

To answer Tom's initial question - it is obviously priceless based on the design and build quality.
Happy bidding
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: cary lichtenstein on February 16, 2020, 09:54:10 PM: its a dying industry, no different from retail today, with every mall with excessive vacancy ratws
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: mike_beene on February 16, 2020, 11:24:16 PM: The airstrip reminds me of Lajitas out by Big Bend. I am going there in May with some friends and they charter a jet from Love Field and from Houston. Looks like it stays sold out. If golfers will fly out there why not the same model. One of the weekends we were wanting the whole plane was already full of Shady Oaks members. There is a lot of appeal to not having to go commercial. Other than a few mountains not sure why this would not work.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Mike Nuzzo on February 19, 2020, 05:06:18 PM: Thank you Mike
I'd say the difference between Lajitas and Wolf Point is that someone would visit Lajitas/Big Bend if there weren't a golf course there.
The buddies trip model would require build out/investment.

Cary
I find your comment very insensitive.
Wolf Point isn't an industry nor did it have anything to do with the business or industry of golf.
Al had Wolf Point built/improved for himself and immediate family and occasional friends.
He passed away, now it is for sale.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: John Mayhugh on February 20, 2020, 07:33:48 AM: Quote from: cary lichtenstein on February 16, 2020, 09:54:10 PM
its a dying industry, no different from retail today, with every mall with excessive vacancy ratws
.Front runner for dumbest post of 2020.

Wolf Point's golf course was built for a single person's use and along with the owner's home is part of a 1600 acre property. There's an airstrip and hangar. The golf course is outstanding, and sensible people should hope it gets preserved in some manner. The property's sale is due to the owner's death. It's not a statement on the viability of public courses or country clubs and has no relation to retail that I can see.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Jeff_Brauer on February 20, 2020, 09:49:13 AM: Not sure why Cary's comment is insensitive, other than Mike's obvious attachment to the place he created. We understand why it was built and the unfortunate reason it is for sale. Still, it is logical that the discussion looks forward to "what needs/can/should/will happen now?

I hope it does get preserved, and presume the Owner may have cared most of all about its future.
Obviously, every such private course eventually faces the same fate. I presume that later in life, the owner would start thinking about succession. Not that there are many broader lessons to draw from this unusual case. Are there any examples of privately owned personal golf courses. Actually, are there any? Is the Annenberg Estate course in CA still privately held? Any others?
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Kalen Braley on February 20, 2020, 12:54:18 PM: Jeff,

While I didn't see it as insensitive, my issue was its completely inaccurate.

Retail Goods isn't a dying industry in the least, its just transitioning from traditional stores and malls to the online model via Amazon and others. Furthermore, Wolf Point as I understand it was never intended for retail consumption, but yes it will take a little time to find another owner who is interested in taking it on for what it is.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Adrian_Stiff on February 20, 2020, 01:01:46 PM: Sentiment has to be removed sometimes. Many golf courses dont stack up. The highest price will win and you must respect the winners wishes. If you bleat then you should have bid more. If you did not bid then STFU
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Mike Nuzzo on February 20, 2020, 01:24:42 PM: Quote from: Jeff_Brauer on February 20, 2020, 09:49:13 AM

Not sure why Cary's comment is insensitive,

Wolf Point should not be for sale. Al, our friend, was healthy as a horse when he passed, and would still be enjoying his home, camels and golf course every day.

I understand Cary wouldn't get that, which is why I wrote insensitive.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Mike Nuzzo on February 20, 2020, 01:30:31 PM: Quote from: Adrian_Stiff on February 20, 2020, 01:01:46 PM
Sentiment has to be removed sometimes. Many golf courses dont stack up. The highest price will win and you must respect the winners wishes. If you bleat then you should have bid more. If you did not bid then STFU

Are you referring to my feelings for Al?
Is your post directed at me?

Talking about me, the industry or any other golf courses not stacking up are just red herrings.
This topic is about Wolf Point for sale via an auction.

If you want the EBITDA - it was always less than $0, as intended.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Bernie Bell on February 20, 2020, 01:58:43 PM: I wonder if runway can accommodate Air Force One.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Steve Lapper on February 20, 2020, 03:20:55 PM: Mike,

It is undeniably understandable that you have an emotional attachment to the land, Al & his family, and the course you helped conceive. Any reasonable person in your shoes would, and quite frankly, should.

I've bought and sold a few golf courses in my day and am forced to take a very dispassionate view of all of them. Although I've never visited or played Wolf Point, many folks whose opinions I respect talk of it being wonderfully unique and exceptional. I'm sure it is. It sounds like course that, in the pantheon of golf course architecture gems, deserves protecting. You are right...it ought not be for sale, but it takes money, in addition to passion, to keep the doors open and lights on.

Sadly, the pool of folks willing to pay for something that accomplishes this is very small and getting smaller every day. Golf is a shrinking business and I think that's what Cary was getting at.

Our rule is to avoid the idea of taking over for future development, any club whose history is important and whose architectural chops retain merit. It's antithetical to our respect for the game. That said, the reverse is equally true where an area or sub-region deserves a culling, or economic thinning of its venues.

The remoteness of Port Lavarca, coupled with the capital investment necessary to enlarge the needed lodging and dining infrastructures is a strong strike against a good price. It will need at least a real projection of EBITDA to correctly measure any realistic bidding price. Airstrips and a very nice private residence won't hurt, but neither will they attract any buying group looking to operate it beyond for the benefit of a handful or less people.

I truly hope someone or some team of people step up and make a winning bid and help preserve Wolf Point in some fashion, but it's hard to imagine finding too many who are looking for this kind of opportunity.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Peter Pallotta on February 20, 2020, 05:04:52 PM: Steve's post reminds me of the only real estate 'transaction' I was ever involved in (aside from buying my own house):

Years ago, the aging parents of a friend of mine were ready to sell their lovingly restored century farmhouse and a hundred acres of farmland, and were hoping to fund their retirement years by getting some $600 K for it. It was about 2 hours northwest of Toronto. They got a local agent and put it on the market as 100 acres of productive farmland and a beautiful home -- and then waited month after month for the very few offers that were coming in, all around $200 K.

They told me about all this one night over dinner, and I could see they were both sad and worried about it. With the warning that I knew nothing about real estate or marketing or being an agent, I suggested an idea for their consideration: take it off the market locally, get a Toronto agent from one of our swanky neighbourhoods, and put it on the market as "An Executive Retreat" -- with an traditional Ontario stone farmhouse full of period charm, including its original wood burning fireplace and wide plank flooring and massive dining room, and with rolling hills perfect for horseback rides and quiet walks through the adjacent forests. They liked the idea, and followed up with a Toronto agent -- and a month later someone bought it for $800 K.

To the locals, many of whom were farmers, it was just a farm, i.e. 100 acres more of land, and with a house they didn't need (because they already had their own). But to a wealthy Torontonian, it represented "country living" at its finest -- the good life, straight out of a magazine.

Which is to suggest: what *is* Wolf Point? To us it's a wonderful golf course. To Mike and Don it's that, plus a labour of love and a testament to friendship. But to anybody else, to whichever very wealthy person may be interested in it, it's a dream, an image, a lifestyle, their own personal 'executive retreat'. And if the above example is any indication, a rich person will pay a lot more for an 'image' than he will for a golf course. The golf course is the icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Marty Bonnar on February 20, 2020, 05:05:55 PM: Would $1.5m be enough for a down payment? If each of us ante up $1k, that gets us started, then another $1k a year annual subs. Does that service the debt? I have ZERO idea about UK, never mind US finances...!

Seriously,

F.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Adrian_Stiff on February 20, 2020, 05:33:26 PM: Quote from: Mike Nuzzo on February 20, 2020, 01:30:31 PM
Quote from: Adrian_Stiff on February 20, 2020, 01:01:46 PM
Sentiment has to be removed sometimes. Many golf courses dont stack up. The highest price will win and you must respect the winners wishes. If you bleat then you should have bid more. If you did not bid then STFU

Are you referring to my feelings for Al?
Is your post directed at me?

Talking about me, the industry or any other golf courses not stacking up are just red herrings.
This topic is about Wolf Point for sale via an auction.

If you want the EBITDA - it was always less than $0, as intended.
Nothing personal, my point is it will take an unusual person to buy it and maintain the way it is now which in reality is unlikely if it makes zero. If it is going to cost several million, rarely does somebody pay anything over the fair price. The land value sounds more than the golf course value which is probably about 50- 70% of what it cost to build.

A buyer that keeps it for golf almost certainly would run it very differently. Wait and see but I almost certain no one is going to run it as your friend did and whoever stumps the winning bid should be respected for how he wants to run it.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Mike_Young on February 20, 2020, 10:53:46 PM: I've heard nothing but good things regarding WP. As Mike N states ideally the owner would still be playing it and enjoying it. But my bet is the owner knew when the time came to transition to another owner it would be a tough deal. When these types of places are built, they are built for a person who wishes to play in that sand box they build until they tire of it. When they tire of it they usually take a big hit if they can find anyone at all who wishes to step in and continue to operate with an EBITDA below 0. From personal experience I built one for an individual owner who had it in a small town that could not justify such a place. Average loss was over a million a year. He spent a total of$22 million on course and clubhouse and when he got sick and his company wished to sell it , the initial price began at $14 million and sold for $400,000 two years later. The $400,000 was not a deal because it would still most likely operate at a significant loss. Another example of a remote course with one owner is the recently built Ohoopee Match Play course. I've played it a couple of times now and is a fantastic place. HOWEVER, it takes a special person who wants to own such a place and fund it. I would wager if that owner ever decided he was tired of playing that game then it would be a difficult course to place with another owner. None of this is a reflection on the courses. It's all about finding a person who has the desire to operate such a place knowing it will cost him.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on February 21, 2020, 02:21:35 AM: Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 11, 2020, 09:42:37 AM

I'm not sure that Ran would like us to go there, and if he objects he can certainly squelch this, but it would be a VERY useful discussion for Golf Club Atlas to debate what Wolf Point is worth.

Surely the only sure way to establish what Wolf Point (or anything else) is worth is to put it to a public auction.

Which is what is happening. We'll find out what it's worth soon enough.

My guess is that unless a couple of billionaires engage in a bidding war it will sell for not much more than the value of its bare land. A single billionaire bidding against farmers is not going to have to pay a big premium to secure the deal.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Steve_ Shaffer on February 21, 2020, 10:18:42 AM: Here's an article appropriately placed in the Robb Report:

https://robbreport.com/shelter/homes-for-sale/this-sprawling-texas-ranch-has-its-own-pro-grade-golf-course-and-a-private-airport-2899797/ (https://robbreport.com/shelter/homes-for-sale/this-sprawling-texas-ranch-has-its-own-pro-grade-golf-course-and-a-private-airport-2899797/)
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Steve Lang on February 21, 2020, 10:28:46 AM: 8) I’m seriously hoping to win the lottery, and swoop in to grab it up

Interesting no reserve auction...
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Mike Hendren on February 21, 2020, 10:58:46 AM: The only issue is whether this opportunity comes across the desk of the right buyer. You only need one. Look folks, this is chump change for thousands of Americans. I assume yachts and homes in the Hamptons continue to sell in today's economic environment. Surely for some golf loving millionaire this investment has as much utility as those, just to cite two examples. It's just not as impressive to brag about at cocktail parties.

Prospective purchasers didn't get where they are today by wasting time on some golf architecture internet site. Nor by making investments that provide a negative return. But, it seems to me to fly in, play a little buddy golf and escape the enemy occupied territory that this world has become is pretty tempting. Perhaps priceless.

My biggest concern is some type A trying to hang new shiny ornaments on what is already a damn good Christmas tree.

Don and Mike, I hope this ends well to your satisfaction. I love the place.

Bogey
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Steven Blake on February 25, 2020, 10:18:32 AM: Al had a vision that was carried out by Don and Mike. Everything about the course and experience at Wolf Point is epic. It’s a course that should be studied for all of GCA nerds as a model of something that’s different but a huge success on so many levels. Hopefully it’s kept in tact as much as possible so that this gem that Al, Don and Mike created can live on in Al’s memory as something truly special and unique in the game of golf.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on February 25, 2020, 11:47:30 AM: https://www.golf.com/travel/2020/02/24/mysterious-exclusive-wolf-point-golf-club-sell-huge-price/ (https://www.golf.com/travel/2020/02/24/mysterious-exclusive-wolf-point-golf-club-sell-huge-price/)

Nothing new in article.

I know a little about who is involved in the process and feel pretty confident WP club will have a new owner soon.

As for what would become of the course after he could no longer play or died, I can tell you exactly how Al felt. “I don’t care, I’ll be dead”.
It’s the purity of his vision for the course that made it what it is. He didn’t want Mike and I to listen to anyone outside our circle. It was a golf course created for one man for a period of time.

I think I know exactly what Al would say. “They bought it, I don’t care what they do with it”
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Jason Topp on February 25, 2020, 03:07:31 PM: Current Bid is $7 million with two days left in the online auction.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Paul Jones on February 25, 2020, 04:06:36 PM: Quote from: Jason Topp on February 25, 2020, 03:07:31 PM
Current Bid is $7 million with two days left in the online auction.

Jason,

Do you have the link to the auction?

I read a couple of articles, but no one posted the site for the auction.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Jason Topp on February 25, 2020, 04:37:30 PM: Quote from: Paul Jones on February 25, 2020, 04:06:36 PM
Quote from: Jason Topp on February 25, 2020, 03:07:31 PM
Current Bid is $7 million with two days left in the online auction.

Jason,

Do you have the link to the auction?

I read a couple of articles, but no one posted the site for the auction.

You have to register but can do so through this link:

https://www.conciergeauctions.com/blog/wolf-point-golf-course-texas-gulf-coast-auction-no-reserve (https://www.conciergeauctions.com/blog/wolf-point-golf-course-texas-gulf-coast-auction-no-reserve)
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Adam Clayman on February 25, 2020, 04:49:17 PM: Whatever it sells for, I hope after all is said and done, Mike + Don get the credit and recognition they deserve for creating a sustainable, clearly enjoyable, model, based on the core principles of the sport.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: mike_beene on February 25, 2020, 11:31:37 PM: I hope this is not a bad time to ask this question: I am generally familiar with the original threads when you guys got involved, have seen pictures and even found the course from the air one day flying to Hobby from Corpus. I unfortunately could not go when I was invited. Are there some old threads that document who did what on the design and build? Is this the type of layout that could be built in some similar fashion elsewhere? Or would that feel wrong or violate any agreement. I think of the El Baroque plans,etc. I assume summer is too hot but rest of year pleasant. Sorry this took such a untimely setback for sad reasons.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: John Mayhugh on February 27, 2020, 07:09:33 AM: Mike,
If you haven't read this on Mike's website, its a great place to start.

http://www.mnuzzo.com/wp.html
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on February 27, 2020, 04:54:05 PM: Bidding got pretty intense down the stretch.
Sold for $9.55M
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Luke Sutton on February 27, 2020, 05:09:14 PM: Quote from: Don Mahaffey on February 27, 2020, 04:54:05 PM
Bidding got pretty intense down the stretch.
Sold for $9.55M

Don, how do I get in touch with the new membership director? ;D
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on February 28, 2020, 02:30:08 AM: Quote from: Don Mahaffey on February 27, 2020, 04:54:05 PM
Bidding got pretty intense down the stretch.
Sold for $9.55M

So $1.5 m more than its value as farmland. Not a bad price for a top notch golf course, big house, clubhouse, and airfield...
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Jason Topp on February 28, 2020, 11:04:18 AM: There was a live auction component to the process that I did not understand.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Sean Leary on February 28, 2020, 01:17:45 PM: Any word as to whether the bidder will keep the golf course? I really hope so.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on February 28, 2020, 02:00:34 PM: I'll let the buyer/seller announce when they get it all worked out - but it looks to remain a golf course in some form.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Tom Bacsanyi on March 02, 2020, 11:36:44 AM: Quote from: Don Mahaffey on February 28, 2020, 02:00:34 PM
I'll let the buyer/seller announce when they get it all worked out - but it looks to remain a golf course in some form.

As part of the informational package for the auction was the yearly golf course maintenance budget included? I would be curious to know what that figure is on annual basis, though it's none of my business.

Glad the property went at a premium to the land value.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on March 02, 2020, 12:51:17 PM: Tom,
I don't know what info was shared with the buyer.
I did meet with many of the perspective buyers, and had permission from the owner to be fully transparent about everything having to do with the golf course from actual costs to construction and maintenance methods. But the winning bidder never reached out to me so I don't know what info they had.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Lou_Duran on March 04, 2020, 12:33:45 PM: Don,

Congratulations to you, Mike, and Al's family. Like most here, I hope that the new owners find a way to maintain the course in the manner you did for all the years Al and his friend (Dale?) played it most days. Along with Trinity Forest, WP provides a very unique golfing experience to Texas. Please let us know when the sale closes and any other information that the new owner is comfortable sharing.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: John Cowden on March 06, 2020, 12:43:59 AM: So I have to know, were the camels part of the deal or not?

Congrats to Don, Mike and all Stranz ‘ interests. Wolf Point is special to all of us and to the game, too.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: archie_struthers on March 06, 2020, 07:25:50 AM: 8) ;D

Good stuff hope to have the pleasure of visiting it some day !
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Steve Lang on March 09, 2020, 09:16:55 PM: Quote from: John Cowden on March 06, 2020, 12:43:59 AM
So I have to know, were the camels part of the deal or not?

Congrats to Don, Mike and all ~~Stranz~~ ‘ interests. Wolf Point is special to all of us and to the game, too.

John, for the record its Stanger not Stranz... I never met the man, but hopefully his spirit lives on at WP
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on March 10, 2020, 07:27:45 PM: Yesterday I heard the camels are staying. Nice to know there will still be a gallery watching tee shots on #4
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: David Wuthrich on March 11, 2020, 10:14:10 AM: And don't forget the Llama!
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Luke Sutton on March 30, 2020, 11:13:49 AM: I really hope this means what I think it does...

Dormie Network founder Zach Peed has found the ideal spot to social distance.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Qufj8JMyL/?igshid=67323icm0gam (https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Qufj8JMyL/?igshid=67323icm0gam)
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Chris Mavros on March 30, 2020, 11:40:11 AM: It does.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Ryan Hillenbrand on March 30, 2020, 12:05:15 PM: Quote from: Chris Mavros on March 30, 2020, 11:40:11 AM
It does.

Awesome, I thought Wolf Point would make sense for their portfolio. Great to hear it might be seen by more people now
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Jim Hoak on March 30, 2020, 12:10:28 PM: For those of us without Instagram, what does it say?
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on March 30, 2020, 12:32:33 PM: Zack is spreading the word with somewhat cryptic posts on Instagram and Facebook. I spent some time with him last week and I like what I heard.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Lou_Duran on March 30, 2020, 12:49:11 PM: Quote from: Don Mahaffey on March 30, 2020, 12:32:33 PM
Zack is spreading the word with somewhat cryptic posts on Instagram and Facebook. I spent some time with him last week and I like what I heard.

Quit teasing. Let us in his thinking.

Unlike Ryan, I didn't see the fit. Might a second course be more than a wish?
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on March 30, 2020, 01:33:24 PM: Quote from: Lou_Duran on March 30, 2020, 12:49:11 PM
Quote from: Don Mahaffey on March 30, 2020, 12:32:33 PM
Zack is spreading the word with somewhat cryptic posts on Instagram and Facebook. I spent some time with him last week and I like what I heard.

Quit teasing. Let us in his thinking.

Unlike Ryan, I didn't see the fit. Might a second course be more than a wish?

Lou, I can’t tell you his thinking re the use of the course. We didn’t talk about that. Plus that’s his story to tell. Our discussions were more about how the course was built and maintained.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Peter Flory on March 30, 2020, 02:35:07 PM: Seems like a good purchase for them.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Tommy Williamsen on March 31, 2020, 12:17:07 PM: Quote from: Peter Flory on March 30, 2020, 02:35:07 PM
Seems like a good purchase for them.

If it is true that Dormie purchased it, I agree. Dormie already owns Briggs Ranch in San Antonio. Between the two of them it would make a fun trip.
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Tom Bacsanyi on March 31, 2020, 12:28:25 PM: Interesting. What's the length of the runway there Don?
Title: Re: Wolf Point Club auction
Post by: Don Mahaffey on March 31, 2020, 01:05:03 PM: 5000' L by 75' W
Some good pics of it here:
https://www.golf.com/travel/2020/02/24/mysterious-exclusive-wolf-point-golf-club-sell-huge-price/ (https://www.golf.com/travel/2020/02/24/mysterious-exclusive-wolf-point-golf-club-sell-huge-price/)