Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: MCirba on December 01, 2019, 07:50:31 PM
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Hi All,
Not sure how well this will go but recently I've been inspired by some of the discussion on Peter P.'s "Frank Discussion" thread and motivated by the very hopeful return to in-depth architectural discussion that's been taking place here in recent weeks.
So, with that in mind, I've decided to chronologically document and offer a Doak Scale score (with half decimals) and critical summary of the courses I've played in 2019. First the numbers to date, with hopefully more to come this month;
49 total rounds
42 18-hole rounds
7 9-hole rounds
41 18-hole courses
8 9-hole courses
25 Courses Played for the First Time
20 Course Replays
So, with that business out of the way, let's jump into it. I've determined that each course should be a separate post so that any subsequent questions or commentary can be properly isolated and focused. I'm hoping that you'll find these reviews worth your time to read and critique and even argue about if you feel differently.
A caveat - If I have an obvious bias or sentimental attachment to a particular course I'll make sure I point that out so you can take my words with the proverbial grain of salt. Likewise, if there is something about a course that I find contrary to where I think the game or golf course architecture should be going I may mark it down more harshly than others might and in those cases I'll also spell it out.
I'll also include a photograph of each course so you can get a general sense of the aesthetic.
One last item. I enjoy playing golf courses from the wonderfully sublime to the atrociously ridiculous so it may be that a course with a rating of, say 2.5 is really a decent, fun, reasonably architected track with a good economic value meant to serve a market and grow the game. We are not comparing apples and oranges here and not every course aspires to be one of the best in the world. That doesn't mean we can't learn something from them and appreciate them for what they are.
Cheers.
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Bless you and good luck!
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Seaview Golf Resort (Bay) - Absecon, NJ
Hugh Wilson/William Robinson 1914, Donald Ross 1915, Wilfred Reid/William Connellan 1916, William & David Gordon 1955, Bob Cupp 1998
Doak Scale - 5.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153215148_ca1cf9d33f_b.jpg)
The almost limitless variety of sizes and shapes of the bunkers at the Seaview Bay course is a large part of the appeal as seen here with the "Snakepit" bunker on the 16th.
Clarence Geist was an early mega-captain of American industry who grew tired of competing for tee times at nearby Atlantic City CC and determined to build his own course, replete with a palatial clubhouse/hotel that was the talk of Philadelphia society when it opened ostentatiously in 1914, and even more formally audacious with an amateur tournament in the cold winds of January of 1915.
Hugh Wilson fresh from his Merion achievements was brought by Geist to lay out a golf course that originally was supposed to have at least tidal three holes built from reclaimed lands in the Galloway Bay, which all disappeared during a storm while Seaview was under construction. Given the low-lying property, that may have been for the better as the course has now been there largely unchanged (and with the originally opened routing) for over 100 years.
The everlasting joy of Seaview Bay is the variety of greens, among the most wildly contoured of their time (since somewhat softened by and large), the shapes and sizes of the bunkers, the open, wind-swept landscape, and the playability for every level, with a total of one-forced carry over water. While not a links, it definitely has links-like characteristics.
The routing is intimate and easily walkable, with views of the Atlantic City skyline across the bay visited multiple times during the round, as the course weaves out to the sea and back inland with clever repetition.
Shortish by today's standards, like most seaside courses Seaview is somewhat dependent on the wind for its challenge, and the LPGA tour players who visit annually generally score quite well during milder summer weather. For history buffs, nine of the Bay course holes were used with 9 from William Flynn's later Pines course holes during the 1942 PGA Championship won by Sam Snead prior to his induction into WWII . And admittedly, once you're aware of the heritage it's difficult to divorce the existing golf course from its sense of historical relevance.
Still, with the smell of the sea air and a bracing breeze coming off the ocean, or during a much-needed winter refuge round, there are not many of these enjoyable antiquities sentimentally recalling a distant past that remain largely unchanged yet thankfully still mostly relevant today.
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Mike,
What exactly is missing from the course that prevents it from being a 6.5?
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Mike,
What exactly is missing from the course that prevents it from being a 6.5?
John K.,
Great question.
Overall, there are just not enough holes that are great golf holes. Ben Hogan cited the long par four 2nd out to the Bay as one of his very favorites, but that's likely because it required a long-iron approach threaded into a narrow green with tidal rushes on each side of the green. For most, a layup second is wise.
Also, a number of the very original and creative greens were neutered by the Gordon's in the 1950s, including the 1st which ran steeply away from the golfer with a huge fronting mound, and the punchbowl 5th green cited by George Thomas in his "Golf Architecture in America" book.
Biggest issue though is that there is not much overall elevation change on the low-lying property so most everything of interest needed to be built by digging down or building up. As cool as some of those features are, their artifice does often scream out.
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Mike -
I'm going to like any course that so immediately reminds me of one that Sean A might profile, one of the so-called lesser/minor ones on relatively flat sites.
In that context: I found it interesting your response to JK, as to why it doesn't score higher. The lack of a lot of great holes I understand (and take your word for) as a good reason, and the change to the greens I understand too.
But I was surprised by the following rationale, which you describe as the "biggest" reason why Seaview doesn't rate higher for you, i.e. "there is not much overall elevation change on the low-lying property so most everything of interest needed to be built by digging down or building up."
To put it too bluntly: what do you have against building up or digging down to create features?
[You know how I mean that, I'm sure. Honest question: are you downgrading it for lack of 'vistas' and dramatic topography, and/or suggesting that the site wasn't good enough to produce the kind of 'found' holes that tend to be special?]
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Peter,
Another great question, thanks.
My personal bias and preference is for the land to have enough natural features and elevation change for the architect to be able to find some natural golf holes.
There are very few "great" golf courses built on nearly dead flat land. Even Seminole and the genius of Ross needed a prominent dune ridge to use. Garden City GC, generally cited as an example of same has extraordinary Hempstead Plain, sand-based, quick draining soil that permitted Travis and Emmet to dig straight down to create pots and coffins and greens largely at the existing subtle grades.
Seaview soil, while sandy as you move inland, has a lot of bayside muck to deal with so much had to be built up to be viable. It's a course that probably shouldn't have been routed as ambitiously close to the bay as it was, truth be told.
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Peter,
Another great question, thanks.
My personal bias and preference is for the land to have enough natural features and elevation change for the architect to be able to find some natural golf holes.
There are very few "great" golf courses built on nearly dead flat land. Even Seminole and the genius of Ross needed a prominent dune ridge to use. Garden City GC, generally cited as an example of same has extraordinary Hempstead Plain, sand-based, quick draining soil that permitted Travis and Emmet to dig straight down to create pots and coffins and greens largely at the existing subtle grades.
Seaview soil, while sandy as you move inland, has a lot of bayside muck to deal with so much had to be built up to be viable. It's a course that probably shouldn't have been routed as ambitiously close to the bay as it was, truth be told.
As much as a Ross fan as I am, Seaview is a nice resort play but no more.
Ira
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Ira Fishman,
Ross drew up a set of recommendations to the existing course, only some (say 20%) were ever actually implemented.
The routing and most of the primary hazard design ideas were from Hugh Wilson working onsite with Atlantic City CC pro William Robinson.
WWI may have factored into the failure to utilize more of Ross's ideas but truthfully, I'm not sure they would have been that impactful.
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Agree. Just not a great site or course. But a fun place to play.
Ira
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One thing I should mention is that Wilson implemented the "great hazard" par five second shot crossing concept stolen from the Old Course Hell Bunker on what is today's 9th hole at Seaview.
Given the timing (1913) it's interesting to consider whether he or Tilly (on steroids at PV #7) utilized it first in the Philly region.
Arguably, Wilson's first was at the 4th at Merion East a few years earlier.
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Agree. Just not a great site or course. But a fun place to play.
Ira
Ira,
Agreed, thanks.
And everyone reading my opinions should know upfront that I have a very high favorability bias in appreciation of the "fun factor".
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Interesting, Mike - and it touches on Mark's thread.
There was Hugh Wilson, pretty fresh off the opportunities (and kind of challenges) that Merion presented, coming to Seaview and to a totally different set of challenges (and 'opportunities').
Maybe the early American architects were in general better at 'finding' than 'building', and/or maybe that's why CBM-Raynor went the template route, i.e. if you're gonna build them, then throw out any notion of 'finding' and just create/copy (for lack of a better word) the best.
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Peter,
Hugh Wilson had no real desire for golf course architecture to be be anything but an avocation, except perhaps for his home club at Merion where he accepted the role he was assigned in the creation of the new course(s), likely as Chairman of the Green Committee.
However, the prominence of his role in that successful effort suddenly thrust him into the spotlight as one of the only men in the Philly area who had insight into what was required to build and grow-in an "ideal golf course" as popularized at the time by Macdonald at NGLA, and he was too nice of a man to turn down outreaches by other clubs.
Even so, shortly after his work at Merion East and West, followed by Philmont , Seaview, and North Hills, in December of 1914 he resigned as Chair of the Merion Green Committee citing demands of business. His young family was also likely a factor.
Despite his sincere intent to rein in his golf architectural activities, events would soon conspire against him and before long he was once again eyeballs deep.
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153215148_ca1cf9d33f_b.jpg)
If there is a winter Philly outing, I vote for The Bay as I have not played it for years and this is a really intriguing picture on a "Doak 5.5". Great post.
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More photos of Seaview Bay, a course I love:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/SeaviewBay/index.html
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Peter,
Hugh Wilson had no real desire for golf course architecture to be be anything but an avocation, except perhaps for his home club at Merion where he accepted the role he was assigned in the creation of the new course(s), likely as Chairman of the Green Committee.
However, the prominence of his role in that successful effort suddenly thrust him into the spotlight as one of the only men in the Philly area who had insight into what was required to build and grow-in an "ideal golf course" as popularized at the time by Macdonald at NGLA, and he was too nice of a man to turn down outreaches by other clubs.
Even so, shortly after his work at Merion East and West, followed by Philmont , Seaview, and North Hills, in December of 1914 he resigned as Chair of the Merion Green Committee citing demands of business. His young family was also likely a factor.
Despite his sincere intent to rein in his golf architectural activities, events would soon conspire against him and before long he was once again eyeballs deep.
Ooops...and a little place called Cobb's Creek in Philadelphia, found by Wilson's committee in 1913 and routed (multiple plans drawn) in 1914. :-[
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Cobb's Creek Golf Course - Philadelphia, PA
Hugh Wilson/Ab Smith/George Crump/George Klaudner/J. Franklin Meehan w Wiliam Flynn/Walter Travis 1915, Garrett Renn/George Fazio 1953
Doak Scale - 4.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49157779296_c995e3d282_b.jpg)
Sometimes compared to the famous 11th at nearby Merion, both courses share the same creek but the one at this municipal course preceded Merion's creek hole by almost a decade.
Given my personal involvement with the ongoing restoration efforts at Cobb's Creek, I'm going to limit my commentary here with your kind understanding.
I would mention that during the 1950s approximately 15% of the golf course property was taken over by an Air Defense Base replete with big artillery guns that forced a squeezed re-routing of a third of the holes. Add in the fact that no capital infrastructure investment has been available since the mid-1950s and there is a lot to recover here. The great news is that all of the original greensites are still in existence.
Needless to say, all involved see incredible potential we hope to soon realize.
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Ed "Porky" Oliver Golf Course - Wilmington, DE
Henry Tatnall/J. Ernest Smith/John Reid 1901, Wilfred Reid 1916, Donald Ross 1922, Alfred Tull 1950, Edmund Ault 1971
Doak Scale Rating - 3.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153219908_465fe73fea_b.jpg)
Disaster looms early on the 452 yard par four 3rd, with OB in the form of Green Hill Road extending down the entire left side. It's unlikely this hole could be built today given liability considerations and it's somewhat amazing it still exists.
Today's modest clubhouse provides little hint that these grounds in the wealthy section of "Green Hill" in Wilmington, Delaware served as the original golf links of the Wilmington Country Club, hosting the likes of Harry Vardon, Ted Ray, and Bobby Jones over the years. It even hosted the 1913 U.S Women's Amateur tournament. Despite that illustrious history, it was only when the DuPont family stepped in during 1958 to save this as a public course later named after local golf hero Ed "Porky" Oliver that it's future was assured.
A host of architects have had a hand in the course that exists today, but the biggest changes came in the 60s when land was sold to Delaware University for a local campus that caused a significant change to several holes.
Playing short at 6,200 yards and a par 70, there are still any number of solid holes, and a few terrific greens still in existence that belie the expertise applied over the decades. The temptation of the 290 yard par four 12th to a devilishly raised target followed by a 143 yard par three to a sliver of a green is probably the highlight, but there is sound, enjoyable golf throughout.
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"sound, enjoyable golf throughout."
Golf as it Ault to be . . .
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Mike - really looking forward to seeing this thread play out. Sorry we could not get together this year for a round as life got in the way. You have a great overview in assessing courses due to the sheer number of them that you've played, as well as the variety up and down the food chain. Some of the ex post comparisons between the highs and lows will should be fun.
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Why go to all the time, hassle & expense of travel to play any course that is not at least a Doak 7?
With some re-work, could these courses bump up a couple of levels?
Sorry to be the wet blanket.
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Peter,
Hugh Wilson had no real desire for golf course architecture to be be anything but an avocation, except perhaps for his home club at Merion where he accepted the role he was assigned in the creation of the new course(s), likely as Chairman of the Green Committee.
However, the prominence of his role in that successful effort suddenly thrust him into the spotlight as one of the only men in the Philly area who had insight into what was required to build and grow-in an "ideal golf course" as popularized at the time by Macdonald at NGLA, and he was too nice of a man to turn down outreaches by other clubs.
Even so, shortly after his work at Merion East and West, followed by Philmont , Seaview, and North Hills, in December of 1914 he resigned as Chair of the Merion Green Committee citing demands of business. His young family was also likely a factor.
Despite his sincere intent to rein in his golf architectural activities, events would soon conspire against him and before long he was once again eyeballs deep.
Ooops...and a little place called Cobb's Creek in Philadelphia, found by Wilson's committee in 1913 and routed (multiple plans drawn) in 1914. :-[
Mike, out of curiosity, how about Phoenixville for Wilson? 1915?
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Time, hassle, expense? Porky Oliver is max 5 minutes off I-95 and can be played currently for $25. Not sure what it is on a peak weekend. Not much. Some golfers see good value there; others wouldn't soil their shoes. De gustibus non est disputandum. Personally, I'm excited for the rest of this thread, regardless of "Doak level."
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Why go to all the time, hassle & expense of travel to play any course that is not at least a Doak 7?
With some re-work, could these courses bump up a couple of levels?
Sorry to be the wet blanket.
Carl,
Mike did qualify this in the last paragraph of his initial post. And I think its a fantastic approach, every golf outing doesn't need to be high value DS courses to have a great time:
One last item. I enjoy playing golf courses from the wonderfully sublime to the atrociously ridiculous so it may be that a course with a rating of, say 2.5 is really a decent, fun, reasonably architected track with a good economic value meant to serve a market and grow the game. We are not comparing apples and oranges here and not every course aspires to be one of the best in the world. That doesn't mean we can't learn something from them and appreciate them for what they are.
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Time, hassle, expense? Porky Oliver is max 5 minutes off I-95 and can be played currently for $25. Not sure what it is on a peak weekend. Not much. Some golfers see good value there; others wouldn't soil their shoes. De gustibus non est disputandum. Personally, I'm excited for the rest of this thread, regardless of "Doak level."
+1
Belt notchers need not apply.
(and it doesn't appear so far that Mike went to much expense or travel distance.)
I'm pretty sure none of my last 3 overseas trips have included a Doak 7 (depending upon his rating of Fraserburgh)
But there were plenty of Warne 7, 8 and 9's.
How can one ever expand their own golf universe and diversity of experience if they combine their travle/exploration to someone else's version of an acceptable course rating(in this case a Doak 7)
Carry on-great thread
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[quote author=MCirba link=topic=67809.msg1622081#msg1622081 date=1575292699
I would mention that during the 1950s approximately 15% of the golf course property was taken over by an Air Defense Base replete with big artillery guns that forced a squeezed re-routing of a third of the holes. Add in the fact that no capital infrastructure investment has been available since the mid-1950s and there is a lot to recover here. The great news is that all of the original greensites are still in existence.
Photos of Cobb's Creek (a place I've come to know very well and that I've dedicated a significant portion of my life for the last 10+ years!) from a recent visit in October:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/CobbsCreek_2019/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/CobbsCreek_2019/index.html)
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Playing short at 6,200 yards and a par 70, there are still any number of solid holes, and a few terrific greens still in existence that belie the expertise applied over the decades. The temptation of the 290 yard par four 12th to a devilishly raised target followed by a 143 yard par three to a sliver of a green is probably the highlight, but there is sound, enjoyable golf throughout.
Photos of Ed Oliver from a visit in March of this year:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/EdOliver_2019/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/EdOliver_2019/index.html)
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Mike - on the Wilson comment, I was mostly just referencing an old favourite concept of mine, i.e. what an architect 'sees', and how one architect might 'see' more/less -- and/or differently -- than another architect. No disparagement meant: just a speculation that Wilson's strength might've lay more in one kind of seeing than another.
More generally, and from your single photos only: I'm not good enough of a golfer (architectural stickler though I may be, and card and pencil type no doubt) to 'experience' or want to experience the golf course alone -- so, so far: Seaview is my number one play, as is, cause it reminds me of a minor Colt -- and because I have family out there in that part of New Jersey; and then of course Cobb's Creek, cause the green sites are still there and because of you and Joe, and the history -- and once the weedy trees are cleared away the feel will be wonderful; and finally Porky's place: I may be a salt of the earth fellow, but I get enough 3.5s right where I am....and, truth be told, I've had more than enough of them. (Hence my thread about you slumming types....easy for you to embrace a 3.5 when you also get to play Pine Valley! :) )
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I've gotten more joy out of discovering and playing Doak 3-4's with Mike Cirba than I have playing some Doak 8's!
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I've gotten more joy out of discovering and playing Doak 3-4's with Mike Cirba than I have playing some Doak 8's!
There are likely just a handful of people in the world that have played more Doak 2 or lower courses than me. And Mike is one of them!
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Thanks, everyone.
I'm going to try and respond to your comments as I'm able but due to limited time right now I'm going to focus on getting a few more reviews posted. Rest assured that I appreciate your feedback, pro and con. Thanks, again.
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Nice thread Mike. Super photos (more please).
Nice to hear about US courses we elsewhere in the world might not otherwise known much about.
Great comment by Kyle about the joy of discovering and playing ‘lessor’ courses.
Atb
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Greate Bay Country Club - Somers Point, NJ
Willie Park/W.H "Pipe" Follett 1923, William Robinson 1926, George & Tom Fazio 1970, Ron Garl 1989, Archie Struthers 2002
Doak Scale Rating - 5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153721181_487b21d669_b.jpg)
From 185 yards, the 13th hole plays to a thimble of a green with bunkers seemingly cut into its very innards.
Greate Bay began life as "Ocean City Harbors", a planned course for Ocean City character Harvey Lake and his family, and though the origins are a bit murky, he hired Willie Park to design a course that likely required some onsite work by Atlantic City pro William Robinson to bring it to life after Park's death. Shortly upon opening it became the Ocean City Country Club, open to an active membership.
In any case, the original course like most of Park's designs was top-notch, weaving through an ocean forest with more natural contour than most of southern New Jersey, to greens that are splendidly varied.
Over the years ownership changed hands a few times and as with many vintage clubs, some decisions were made not in the best interest of the golf course (i.e. driving range, some adjoining condos, a few new "modern" holes built to replace those that were destroyed) and what was left was a hodge-podge of hole styles and routing glitches with little continuity.
in stepped our own Archie Struthers, who has been working bit by bit these past two decades to return to the Park style and excellence throughout the property. While not fully restorable, the course has been greatly improved, and just as importantly for the long-term viability of the club and course, Archie has returned a sense of place, history, and fun to the club, such that if I lived anywhere within 20 miles I'd join in a minute.
There are numerous terrific holes from Park that still remain untouched, and a wonderfully varied set of greens. In one sequence you go from the triple-tiered green on 12, to the postage stamp pictured above on 13, to a gull-winged double plateau green on 14, each built to accommodate a particular shot while eschewing others.
Definitely a sentimental favorite of mine, and Archie makes guests feel like family.
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Why go to all the time, hassle & expense of travel to play any course that is not at least a Doak 7?
With some re-work, could these courses bump up a couple of levels?
Sorry to be the wet blanket.
I think this is a great thread for those of us that travel for other reasons, and try to fit golf in.
I absolutely would have played the Porky Oliver Golf Course if I had seen Mike's post 2-3 years ago. On trips to Annapolis, I never knew the timing of when I could play and just did not want to deal with the private logistics.
There are some good 3.5 Doaks, and some bad. Porky Oliver looks and sounds like my cup of tea. Carry on Mike...
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There are numerous terrific holes from Park that still remain untouched, and a wonderfully varied set of greens. In one sequence you go from the triple-tiered green on 12, to the postage stamp pictured above on 13, to a gull-winged double plateau green on 14, each built to accommodate a particular shot while eschewing others.
Definitely a sentimental favorite of mine, and Archie makes guests feel like family.
Greate Bay is always a great day of golf. More photos from a February 2017 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/GreateBay/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/GreateBay/index.html)
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There are numerous terrific holes from Park that still remain untouched, and a wonderfully varied set of greens. In one sequence you go from the triple-tiered green on 12, to the postage stamp pictured above on 13, to a gull-winged double plateau green on 14, each built to accommodate a particular shot while eschewing others.
Definitely a sentimental favorite of mine, and Archie makes guests feel like family.
Greate Bay is always a great day of golf. More photos from a February 2017 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/GreateBay/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/GreateBay/index.html)
The golf course, atmosphere and Archie as host make Greate Bay a five star day!
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I was able to get to Greate Bay for the first time this summer and really liked it. Lots of flexibility at each shot and some fun bunkering, especially on the front.
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Thanks for the photo link, Joe.
I don't know, Archie. I've never met him. But I like him, and more and more each day!
Greate Bay went to the top of my list.
[PS - goodness, but it reminds me in many ways of that early Tom D course: darn, the name escapes me, but years ago Bogey tried to stump us with photos of it under the 'guess the architect' file. I liked that one too, very much. The architecture -- there and here -- doesn't jump out and yell "Look at ME", like some first year student at a musical theatre school, standing on a table singing something from West Side Story.]
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Atlantic City Country Club - Northfield, NJ
John Reid/H.J. Tweedie 1897, Herbert Barker 1910, Willie Park 1921, William Flynn 1925, Al Janis/Leo Fraser 1990, Tom Doak 1999
Doak Scale Score - 6.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153225123_7136c27cee_b.jpg)
Short pitch par three holes like the 12th (134 yards) on a windy seaside course like Atlantic City can be the ultimate test of ball flight control.
Atlantic City Country Club has a long and esteemed history as everything from the "Birth of the Birdie" to George Crump spying the land for Pine Valley as he rode there on a train. Interestingly from my biased perspective, it's spine-tingling that both Ab Smith and George Crump (as seen in the following video) had so much to do with the creation of Cobb's Creek.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FpzoKArKh0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FpzoKArKh0)
If that doesn't ring your bell, you may want to check your pulse. ;)
For most of its history ACCC was primarily a William Flynn design that over time started to lose some luster. Around the turn of the century Tom Doak was brought in and my understanding is that the owner wanted something punchier and more visually dramatic than the course that had evolved.
I don't have a complete understanding of all the changes made at that time, but the bunkers were definitely made more sand-flashed and prominent while most of the re-routing work was done on the back nine, where the par four tenth and par three 11th were combined into a new par five 10th. The old 12 & 13 became 11 and 12, while the next par five (13th) hole was extended with a new green about 40 yards back.
What remained was to create five holes in the space where there used to be four, which then required shortening the next par four and creating a switch-back long par three against the prevailing wind (at least it always seems so when I've played there) and slightly moving the remaining holes to accommodate the needed width. In my opinion, each of the last five holes (with exception of the 17th, which always seemed squeezed in that corner to me, even prior to Tom's work) are good holes but the sequencing and need to walk back always seemed a bit balky to me. Still and all, without removing the extensive practice area (where the original 11th seen in the video above was located), I'm not sure there were a lot of good options on a narrow strip of land and in my opinion, keeps ACCC from being the "7" it is up to that point in the round.
If you have any sense of history of the game of golf in the United States, Atlantic City Country Club should be on your short list to play. Just avoid the summer when the flies are biting.
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Mike,
What exactly is missing from the course that prevents it from being a 6.5?
You are just ... :D
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If you have any sense of history of the game of golf in the United States, Atlantic City Country Club should be on your short list to play. Just avoid the summer when the flies are biting.
This is the course that I think is a little under appreciated by the Philly crowd as it is lots of fun to play, and the clubhouse feels like Sam Snead's living room, in a great way. I would bump it to a 7.
I would also clarify that many courses at the shore near the marsh can be tough for flies with a "bay breeze" in the summer, but are normally fine with an "ocean breeze" during the summer.
Mike - Thanks for the change updates on the back. Now it makes sense.
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Sorry for my late response .... I am now somewhat semi-retired and have the time and means to do some destination golf (impossible on both counts when younger). Coupled with what I fear will be an increasingly difficult arthritic conditions in the future, I take an attitude that I should make the most of what golf time is left.
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Sorry for my late response .... I am now somewhat semi-retired and have the time and means to do some destination golf (impossible on both counts when younger). Coupled with what I fear will be an increasingly difficult arthritic conditions in the future, I take an attitude that I should make the most of what golf time is left.
Completely understood, Carl. I hope you have the opportunity to do so for many more years.
Rest assured there will be some 7 and above scores ahead.
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A most enjoyable thread. Someone should publish a guide to courses within 10 minutes of heavily traveled interstates.
Ira
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Mike,
ACCC is one of those courses that just doesn't comes across on TV and pictures to my eye. I know it has the history and all, but it looks a bit of "this is neat cause its right next to the water" as opposed to the course iteself. Never been there in person, but perhaps its like Common Ground which was the same, until seeing it in person and "getting it".
Also brings to mind Tony Lema in San Leandro, CA which looks to be a great location and it has terrific views, but the course isn't all that hot...
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Greate Bay Country Club - Somers Point, NJ
Willie Park/W.H "Pipe" Follett 1923, William Robinson 1926, George & Tom Fazio 1970, Ron Garl 1989, Archie Struthers 2002
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153721181_487b21d669_b.jpg)
From 185 yards, the 13th hole plays to a thimble of a green with bunkers seemingly cut into its very innards.
I have developed a fascination with what I call spread bunkers as seen on the left of the above photo. I find bunkers such as this often mask the shape and size of the green, but I don't know why.
Happy Hockey
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Me too, Sean.
I don't wan t to put words in his mouth or get the concept flat-out wrong, but I think that's what Mark B once characterized as a 'carnivorous' bunker (though the one you reference does seem a little less 'hungry' than the examples Mark used, IIRC, from Dr Mac's Australian courses -- though no less good for that)
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St. David's Golf Club - Wayne, PA
Donald Ross 1927, A.W. Tillinghast 1935, Brian Silva 1995, Ron Prichard 2004,2018
Doak Scale Score - 5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153933292_5a4db473f7_b.jpg)
The prototypical Donald Ross downhill tee shot followed by an uphill approach is a common, yet comfortingly familiar theme at St. David's. Note the recently restored top-shot bunker on the par five 8th hole courtesy of Ron Prichard.
St. David's is one of several second-tier, under the radar, very good, and very unsung golf courses in the Philadelphia suburbs that tend to get overshadowed by their more famous brethren.
With a largely intact and well preserved Donald Ross pedigree, on an elegant property that is abruptly sloped in a few places, St. David's has an old time Main Line feel that wears like a patched cashmere sweater.
However, like many other courses of its vintage in the area it has also been compromised by the addition of a driving range/practice area such that much like a truncated operatic concerto, the buildup never quite reaches the climax in the end.
In the case of St. David's the practice range adversely affected the last two holes which had been a medium length par four along a hard right boundary and a short par four birdie opportunity to a well protected green. These have been replaced by a solid if unremarkable par three and an awkward dogleg 18th to that same well protected green.
None of that negates all the good stuff that comes before but it certainly doesn't accent it either. The course plays in three movements, first on gentle land that could be a course in the English countryside, then falling and rising along a fairly steep slope that cleverly segues with side by side par threes, the long downhill ninth followed by the medium uphill rise of the tenth. Holes 11 through 16 are across a road and generally make the most of a long, broad fallaway slope before returning to the closers described above.
It's a testament to the greatness of Donald Ross that a course of this high quality was routine to him, and he makes it look easy to this day.
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This is the most enjoyable thread I have read in a while. It speaks to the joy of discovery. And of the pleasure of going back to those wonderful discoveries.
I remember discovering Seaview and Cobbs Creek randomly when in the vicinity many years ago before I really got into GCA. Both got me thinking in ways I hadn’t before about the game.
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Mike,
Thank you very much for this wonderful and educational post. Really cool to have a balanced review of these courses "plusses and minuses"
Thank you for the time and effort to develop this stellar post!
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Lancaster Country Club (Meadowcreek/Dogwood) - Lancaster, PA
Unknown 1913, William Flynn 1919-1945, William & David Gordon 1959,1966, Gil Hanse 1996, Ron Forse /Jim Nagle 2006-2018
Doak Scale Score - 8
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153936127_7b1d8bdefa_b.jpg)
The Conestoga River running through it and its various creek tributaries add much drama to the golf at Lancaster.
Lancaster Country Club has always benefited from the fact that William Flynn was able to spend over 20 years developing the course, not only tinkering but also making wholesale changes in the 1940s when new land was acquired. This acquisition, which led to the creation of the "creek holes", 3, 4, 5 & 6, as well as a bold new cape-like tee for the 7th across the river really is the differentiator for me that elevates it from a "great Flynn course", of which the Philadelphia region is blessed with several, to a world-class, exceptional golf course.
The even better news at Lancaster is that under present course management, the club continues to work with Ron Forse & Jim Nagle on an aggressive tree removal program that is breathtaking. I was stunned looking back at Ran's review from a decade ago to see exactly how over-treed it was at the time. https://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/lancaster-country-club/ (https://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/lancaster-country-club/) Today's visitor sees beautiful long views across the property and the turf has benefited greatly, as well.
Flynn was a routing genius so it's not surprising to find evidence of that gift everywhere you look. Flynn grouped greens and tees at several high spots throughout the property. Standing on the tenth green you're a flip wedge shot from two other greens and three tee boxes. Those high points however mean plenty of uphill approaches into lengthy par fours and there's a stretch of them on 9, 10, & 11 that can be back-breaking. But where Lancaster takes away, it also gives opportunity, as a string of shortish, gorgeous holes from 2 through 7 provides.
The property itself is almost ideal for golf with rolling terrain falling into the river valley, intersected with creeks and hillocks. The only drawback is that the river itself has had some flooding issues that the club is trying to mitigate.
The weakest link in the solid flow of holes at Lancaster is the one-dimensional par five buttonhook 13th, which was changed sometime after Flynn died from a medium length par four & uphill par three into its present configuration. Some alternatives have been discussed by the club and it may be that in coming years Lancaster will be further perfected.
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None of that negates all the good stuff that comes before but it certainly doesn't accent it either. The course plays in three movements, first on gentle land that could be a course in the English countryside, then falling and rising along a fairly steep slope that cleverly segues with side by side par threes, the long downhill ninth followed by the medium uphill rise of the tenth. Holes 11 through 16 are across a road and generally make the most of a long, broad fallaway slope before returning to the closers described above.
It's a testament to the greatness of Donald Ross that a course of this high quality was routine to him, and he makes it look easy to this day.
Photos of St. Davids from a visit last month:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/StDavids_2019_Nov/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/StDavids_2019_Nov/index.html)
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Flynn was a routing genius so it's not surprising to find evidence of that gift everywhere you look. Flynn grouped greens and tees at several high spots throughout the property. Standing on the tenth green you're a flip wedge shot from two other greens and three tee boxes. Those high points however mean plenty of uphill approaches into lengthy par fours and there's a stretch of them on 9, 10, & 11 that can be back-breaking. But where Lancaster takes away, it also gives opportunity, as a string of shortish, gorgeous holes from 2 through 7 provides.
More photos of Lancaster from an August 2017 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/LancasterCC/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/LancasterCC/index.html)
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Love the Delaware Valley tour. I played Porky Oliver many times when I lived there in the 70’s and early 80’s. It has one great hole (4 when I played there) which was a long four uphill along the property. Several others are fun short fours.
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Mention above of St David's caught my eye in view of the patron saint of a certain principality and I then recalled seeing this old b&W photo now coloured entitled "Golf Links. St David's, Pa."
atb
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-BGSlWXYAAFu18.jpg)
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Rich Maiden Golf Course - Fleetwood, PA
Jake Merkel 1931,1947
Doak Scale Score - 4
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153939417_883989c56b_b.jpg)
The 158 yard uphill par three 17th to a severely sloping green is one of six short holes on the course.
Jake Merkel had a dream. The Berks County native handyman who worked building car bodies and houses was living in Detroit when he got bitten by the golf bug, badly. An opportunity to take a lease option on 91 acres of rolling farmland in his old hometown became available in 1929 and 31 year old Merkel and his wife literally saw a nine hole golf course in their mind's eye. Little did they know they couldn't have had worse timing, given the impending Great Depression.
Nevertheless, Merkel persisted and by 1931 he built and opened nine holes from scratch. Audaciously, his par three 4th hole crossed a quarry to a green 10,050 feet large. (sadly no longer existing as the hole was reversed into a dramatic uphill quarry hole) Four years later the landlord filed for bankruptcy and sold the property to a third party, had Merkel arrested for trespassing even though Merkel was making his payments. A court battle ensued and Merkel won and soon bought the property himself.
As time progressed and the world came through the Depression and WWII Merkel saw the opportunity to expand on his existing property. Essentially working around the perimeter and re-routing a few holes he was able to open a full 18 hole course of 5,500 yards, par 70. Somewhat unusually but quite understandable, the course features six par threes (all of them very good) and four par fives (ditto).
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49164052042_918c823d07.jpg)
Whether by genius or kismet, the course features a number of distinct "half-par" holes that are likely more fun to play and even more white-knuckling now with modern technology then they were when created. The temptation to hit driver is "rewarded" with dicey little pitches to shallow, diagonal greens sloping towards trouble on holes like the third which doglegs right to a perched green sitting on the edge of a quarry, or the straight uphill 300 yard 5th to a skyline green that is tilted sharply right to left and looks about as big as the hood of your car.
As mentioned, the par threes are all good, the longest of which is 174 yards downhill to a fallaway green in the corner of the property. The 12th is much like the 4th at LuLu, a 136 yard blind par three where the green sits up atop a quarry cliff wall. 14 features a diagonal green partially hidden behind a diagonally attached bunker. Most of the holes offer some little twist that make them more challenging than first glance would indicate, often due to the sizing and shaping of the greens, but also due to clever bunker placement. The course returns to the quarry for the last time on 15, with a green siting along a bridge, rock wall, and outbuilding that is inspired, indeed.
Both nines end with roller coast par fives sweeping downhill and then back up to intense greens sitting aside the modest original clubhouse that doubles as the family home.
Sadly, Jake Merkel died at age 52 in 1950, having lived long enough to see his dream come to fruition.
In a perfect world, every town and hamlet would have a Rich Maiden.
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Olde Stonewall Golf Club - Ellwood City, PA
Michael Hurdzan/Dana Fry 1999
Doak Scale Score - 4 - 0?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153237758_5fa5ae523f_b.jpg)
Playing at 474 yards from the back tee, the par four 16th hole features a narrow drop shot between Connequenessing Creek left and fairway bunkers right and an approach over wetlands. (Note that photography tends to flatten elevation change)
It took me til my ninth course of the year to play my first new one in early May, and it was one I'd been eager to visit for some time. Olde Stonewall Golf Club in western PA has been highly rated among public courses in PA by most of the periodicals, and I have enjoyed the work of Hurdzan & Fry on other courses of theirs I've played, by and large. (Note - This is NOT Stonewall Golf Club in Elverson, PA, which is also highly regarded in PA)
The course is really in the middle of nowhere so the drive along rural, winding hills to get there was interrupted somewhat abruptly and incongruously by a giant Medieval-themed castle that serves as the clubhouse. Somewhat bemused by the ostentatious edifice, I was more concerned about getting out as a single but not to worry...there was hardly anyone else there on a beautiful spring afternoon.
I had intended to walk but was assured in the clubhouse that was not really possible and I soon learned why. The front nine was a bit of a non-obvious routing that seemed more interested in providing scenic views than sound golf.
But it's probably because that was the only option on the overall property squeezed between Connequenessing Creek and over 300 feet of rocky, wooded elevation change one needs to navigate on the back nine. I can't even imagine the construction challenges on such steep boulder strewn terrain, or the costs.
Imaginatively, they tried to use some of those Stonehedgian slabs of rock to line creeks and build up tees and other retaining walls.
As such, H&F went for the visual drama approach and holes like the back to back all-carry or death par threes on 14 & 15 (202 & 241 yards from the tips, respectively) are the result. Heck with walking, even the amusement park-like cart ride was daunting on such terrain.
I'd like to say that there some golf holes that played nearly as well as they spectacularly looked, but even the fairly decent low lying holes seemed overshaped and often played awkwardly. In thinking about it, it may be a classic Doak 0, but the architects never had a fighting chance.
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As mentioned, the par threes are all good, the longest of which is 174 yards downhill to a fallaway green in the corner of the property. The 12th is much like the 4th at LuLu, a 136 yard blind par three where the green sits up atop a quarry cliff wall. 14 features a diagonal green partially hidden behind a diagonally attached bunker. Most of the holes offer some little twist that make them more challenging than first glance would indicate, often due to the sizing and shaping of the greens, but also due to clever bunker placement. The course returns to the quarry for the last time on 15, with a green siting along a bridge, rock wall, and outbuilding that is inspired, indeed.
Both nines end with roller coast par fives sweeping downhill and then back up to intense greens sitting aside the modest original clubhouse that doubles as the family home.
More photos of Rich Maiden, these from an April 2016 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/RichMaiden/index.html
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But Mike, what about the stone(?) animals strewn throughout the property? They have to bring it up to at least a Doak 4.5 right? ;D
(https://www.jltphotos.com/Golf-Courses/Pennsylvania/Olde-Stonewall/i-wFPfrmg/A)
Love the thread by the way, one of my favorites of the year.
Olde Stonewall Golf Club - Ellwood City, PA
Michael Hurdzan/Dana Fry 1999
Doak Scale Score - 4 - 0?
and large. (Note - This is NOT Stonewall Golf Club in Elverson, PA, which is also highly regarded in PA)
The course is really in the middle of nowhere so the drive along rural, winding hills to get there was interrupted somewhat abruptly and incongruously by a giant Medieval-themed castle that serves as the clubhouse. Somewhat bemused by the ostentatious edifice, I was more concerned about getting out as a single but not to worry...there was hardly anyone else there on a beautiful spring afternoon.
I had intended to walk but was assured in the clubhouse that was not really possible and I soon learned why. The front nine was a bit of a non-obvious routing that seemed more interested in providing scenic views than sound golf.
But it's probably because that was the only option on the overall property squeezed between Connequenessing Creek and over 300 feet of rocky, wooded elevation change one needs to navigate on the back nine. I can't even imagine the construction challenges on such steep boulder strewn terrain, or the costs.
Imaginatively, they tried to use some of those Stonehedgian slabs of rock to line creeks and build up tees and other retaining walls.
As such, H&F went for the visual drama approach and holes like the back to back all-carry or death par threes on 14 & 15 (202 & 241 yards from the tips, respectively) are the result. Heck with walking, even the amusement park-like cart ride was daunting on such terrain.
I'd like to say that there some golf holes that played nearly as well as they spectacularly looked, but even the fairly decent low lying holes seemed overshaped and often played awkwardly. In thinking about it, it may be a classic Doak 0, but the architects never had a fighting chance.
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But Mike, what about the stone(?) animals strewn throughout the property? They have to bring it up to at least a Doak 4.5 right? ;D
(https://www.jltphotos.com/Golf-Courses/Pennsylvania/Olde-Stonewall/i-wFPfrmg/A)
Love the thread by the way, one of my favorites of the year.
Jason,
They were stone??
Oh jeez...I thought I was hallucinating by that point! :-\ ;D
Glad you're enjoying.
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Never thought I would see Rich Maiden mentioned on GCA.com. Haven't played it in many years.
The shortness of the course never allowed any of us to consider it a "real" course. All of the half-par holes were in the lowered direction (i.e. 3.5 par 4's and 4.5 par 5's - nothing in the other direction to offset them). Certainly never thought of it as anything worth thinking more deeply about. The effort to positively critique this course falls in one of three categories:
1: The sign of encroaching mental illness
2: Formal satire
3: The GCA equivalent of the Fonz jumping the shark tank
Still a fun course if you're looking to have a chance to drive a lot of par 4's. I believe that the owners at least at one time were the same as Wedgewood GC south of Bethlehem. Another short course but with a decent closing stretch of closing holes (14-18).
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The shortness of the course never allowed any of us to consider it a "real" course.
Broke 60 every time you played it, then?
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Not 50’s but always low numbers relative to what I was shooting elsewhere. It’s fun to have a crack at some par 4’s and reachable par 5’s. Not saying it’s not fun or that it doesn’t have a role in the golf kingdom. Certainly wouldn’t want a daily dose of it though.
I think the owners also own(ed) Fairview in Lebanon. Much better course with a few nice holes. The ownership of these courses always did a great job catering to their clientele. Doesn’t mean they are anything more than they are though.
A Doak 4 is much higher praise than I would ever give Rich Maiden. Doak 2 is more in line, with 3 a stretch. It does not reach average in the general area for sure.
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My friend Jim Sherma is a very good player and hits the ball a considerable distance. I find we are often in agreement but I would ask if this definition of a Doak Scale 4 has any resonance
) A modestly interesting course, with a couple of distinctive holes among the 18, or at least some scenic interest and decent golf. Also reserved for some very good courses that are much too short and narrow to provide sufficient challenge for accomplished golfers.
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Never thought I would see Rich Maiden mentioned on GCA.com. Haven't played it in many years.
The shortness of the course never allowed any of us to consider it a "real" course. All of the half-par holes were in the lowered direction (i.e. 3.5 par 4's and 4.5 par 5's - nothing in the other direction to offset them).
This would also apply to Kilspindie, which I just named as my most fun round of golf this year.
Get over the par thing, Jim.
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holes like the back to back all-carry or death par threes on 14 & 15 (202 & 241 yards from the tips, respectively) are the result.
So how far do you have to carry it on the 241 yard hole, not to die? And what lengths are the other tees?
The answers to these questions would be the difference between a 0 and an actual score.
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When I saw that Tom Doak responded I thought he was going to bust on Cirba for his weak use of 1/2 Doak scale points. Man up Mike!
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holes like the back to back all-carry or death par threes on 14 & 15 (202 & 241 yards from the tips, respectively) are the result.
So how far do you have to carry it on the 241 yard hole, not to die? And what lengths are the other tees?
The answers to these questions would be the difference between a 0 and an actual score.
Good question, Tom.
The 202 and 241 yardages I provided are from the back tees that play 7,103 yards.
From the 6681 yard tees the holes are 180 and 217, respectively. Up another set to 6,200 they are 164 and 190.
Here they are for your viewing pleasure.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49173035126_c993af96df_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49173265492_8975734f1d_b.jpg)
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When I saw that Tom Doak responded I thought he was going to bust on Cirba for his weak use of 1/2 Doak scale points. Man up Mike!
Mayday,
Perhaps it's just me but a 3.5 is more meaningful to me to describe a 3 that is somewhat better than an average course. I try to use them only to make those type of points. Glad you're enjoying. ;)
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Oakmont Country Club - Oakmont, PA
Henry C. Fownes/William C. Fownes 1903, W.C. Fownes/Emil Loeffler 1910-1935, Arthur Snyder 1952, Robert Trent Jones 1964, Arnold Palmer/Ed Seay 1978, Fred Garbin 1983, Arthur Hills 1988, Tom Fazio/Tom Marzolf 2005, Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw 2016
Doak Scale Score - 10
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49169001373_c54dd8c4cf_b.jpg)
"Audacious" is the first word that comes to my mind at Oakmont with holes that have little time for modern notions of "fairness" Here on the third the further one drives the more the shot needs to be squeezed into the uphill slope between the nest of bunkers right and the church pews left.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49169709242_10937c4c71_b.jpg)
...leaving a blind to semi-blind approach (note the direction pole) to a ridge-top green with a wicked false front and a corresponding fallaway just behind. Would anyone build this hole today?
What more needs to be said about Oakmont? I was so excited to play there and so nervous entering that storied cauldron of human misery that I thought I would black out on a few of my first swings. Thankfully, a day or so prior I had received some wisdom from my friend John Y. in western PA who essentially said, "When you get in trouble, don't be a hero. Just get out of trouble". It turned out to be sage advice.
Is Oakmont really a monster? Well, yes, it can be but given that ferocity it is also the most playable, most strategic, and most captivating relentlessly difficult golf course I've ever played There is always a place to miss, or to play safe, or to just chicken out and it's rare to lose a ball, unless perhaps in the drainage ditches which have been left to grow a bit wild. That being said, this is a course where you really want to play from the members tees as those created for US Open play will quickly teach a person why no one is paying them to play the game. It is also a course where you really need to think about placement on every shot and not just from an aerial perspective; the firmness of the ground combined with the slope means you always need to consider where your ball will roll and roll and roll to.
With the amount of architects who have been there over the years one might think it would be a hodge-podge of styles but thankfully the audacity of the original Fownes "a shot poorly played should be a shot irrevocably lost" grand design and wonderful routing lives on 116 years later.
Who today would design holes like the long par-four first along tight OB right to a green falling steeply away, or the tilted green of the 2nd hole where you worry that your coin might slide, or the 17th, where any number of options exist on the steeply uphill 322 yard blind hole? Oakmont simply doesn't care that it's not fair.
The heralded tree-removal program actually continues, and most recently everything along the tracks/turnpike has been removed, such that one can stand on the third green and see the entire golf course. Majestic!
The greens are everything they are claimed to be but I found them so wildly interesting that I can't think of another course where stroking a good putt along an intended line provides so much satisfaction, and even glee.
Oakmont is also perhaps the nicest, most welcoming, most low-key and golf-loving club I've ever had the pleasure to visit.
More audaciousness can be found on the finishing hole and I'm hopeful that the picture from behind the green gives some idea of their nature.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153240338_d630580c77_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49169738757_408bc7c6e3_b.jpg)
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Tom - It's not the par thing at all. I love half par holes and fun shorter courses. My critique of Rich Maiden is more on the side of repetition of short holes that just leave a lot of short wedge shots.
I also think that a course with a lot of half par holes can be great but there needs to be some going to the high side of the equation and not all going to the low side. Hershey Parkview (sadly NLE) was like this. There were 4 par 4's that could be driven and one par 5 that could easily be reached if you got your tee shot in the right place (easy to make 7+ if you didn't). At the same time there were 3 or 4 long par 4's and one long par 3 where a bogey did not lose much to the field and could even be the strategic way to play the hole on certain days. I think the fun of links courses given some wind is a function of a bunch of effectively half-par holes going in both directions. Rich Maiden only has them going in one direction that IMO leads to repetition of shots and strategy throughout the round.
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"With the amount of architects who have been there over the years one might think it would be a hodge-podge of styles but thankfully the audacity of the original Fownes design and routing lives on 116 years later."
Mike - that's a very neat observation, one well worth unpacking in some future thread. And not only about Oakmont in particular, but more generally: to me, it a) recognizes the fundamental importance of routing to a course's essential character -- which is why I don't think 2 or 3 or 4 architects ever have to be named as having 'worked' on and 'changed' a course over the years; if they haven't changed the routing they haven't changed the course, and more interestingly b) it raises the question of why some courses seem more immune to the hodge-podge effect than others.
Also, re the photos you provided Tom for the previous course: they rang a bell. I played a course once last summer -- once -- built on similar topography and in much the same way. And I'm not too prone to letting architects off the hook because of the site: that first par 3 is a good example -- they went to the top of the hill and made it 190 yards long not because they *had* to but because they *wanted* to. I can't tell so much from your photo, but on a similar Par 3 at the course I played, they could've stopped half way up the hill and made it a 140 yard Par 3 or moved the tee way to the left and half way up, creating a really cool (and challenging) angle into the green etc. It's not the difficulty of that hole that bothers me: I've learned to take my medicine when it comes to my average game. It's the principle of the thing, i.e. putting the creating of a vista/postcard ahead of a playable and interesting golf hole.
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Is Oakmont really a monster? Well, yes, it can be but given that ferocity it is also the most playable, most strategic, and most captivatingly difficult golf course I've ever played There is always a place to miss, or to play safe, or to just chicken out and it's rare to lose a ball, unless perhaps in the drainage ditches which have been left to grow a bit wild. That being said, this is a course where you really want to play from the members tees as those created for US Open play will quickly teach a person why no one is paying them to play the game. It is also a course where you really need to think about placement on every shot and not just from an aerial perspective; the firmness of the ground combined with the slope means you always need to consider where your ball will roll and roll and roll to.
With the amount of architects who have been there over the years one might think it would be a hodge-podge of styles but thankfully the audacity of the original Fownes "a shot poorly played should be a shot irrevocably lost" grand design and wonderful routing lives on 116 years later.
Who today would design holes like the long par-four first along tight OB right to a green falling steeply away, or the tilted green of the 2nd hole where you worry that your coin might slide, or the 17th, where any number of options exist on the steeply uphill 322 yard blind hole? Oakmont simply doesn't care that it's not fair.
The heralded tree-removal program actually continues, and most recently everything along the tracks/turnpike has been removed, such that one can stand on the third green and see the entire golf course. Majestic!
The greens are everything they are claimed to be but I found them so wildly interesting that I can't think of another course where stroking a good putt along an intended line provides so much satisfaction, and even glee.
Oakmont is also perhaps the nicest, most welcoming, most low-key and golf-loving club I've ever had the pleasure to visit.
More audaciousness can be found on the finishing hole and I'm hopeful that the picture from behind the green gives some idea of their nature.
More photos of Oakmont from a visit a handful of years ago:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Oakmont/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Oakmont/index.html)
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Tom - It's not the par thing at all. I love half par holes and fun shorter courses. My critique of Rich Maiden is more on the side of repetition of short holes that just leave a lot of short wedge shots.
I also think that a course with a lot of half par holes can be great but there needs to be some going to the high side of the equation and not all going to the low side. Hershey Parkview (sadly NLE) was like this. There were 4 par 4's that could be driven and one par 5 that could easily be reached if you got your tee shot in the right place (easy to make 7+ if you didn't). At the same time there were 3 or 4 long par 4's and one long par 3 where a bogey did not lose much to the field and could even be the strategic way to play the hole on certain days. I think the fun of links courses given some wind is a function of a bunch of effectively half-par holes going in both directions. Rich Maiden only has them going in one direction that IMO leads to repetition of shots and strategy throughout the round.
Jim,
Thanks, understood and agree about the preponderance of short iron approaches. Also agree that the abandonment of Hershey Parkview was a real loss. That course was a blast!
In the case of Rich Maiden, why not play the 456 yard 11th and the 498 yard 18th as par fours, for an overall par 68, which seems reasonable at 5500 yards?
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Mike - it’s not about par. Changing it doesn’t change the shots that are required. Honestly, I’ll just play Berkleigh up the road and have a smile all day long. If I need to get beat on Moselem will do that nicely in that neck of the woods.
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Mike - it’s not about par. Changing it doesn’t change the shots that are required. Honestly, I’ll just play Berkleigh up the road and have a smile all day long. If I need to get beat on Moselem will do that nicely in that neck of the woods.
All good, Jim. I love Berkleigh, as well, but unfortunately I didn't play there this year so it won't be reviewed, sadly.
But I did play Berskshire, so that review is coming in a bit. :)
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French Creek Golf Club
Gil Hanse/Jim Wagner/Bill Kittleman/Jeff Broadbelt 2003
Doak Scale Score - 6
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153773686_b06fa7727b_b.jpg)
The short par four 15th hole presents numerous options, and is driveable from the member tees. (Photo courtesy of Hanse Golf Design)
I first walked French Creek back during grow-in with my friend Eric Pevoto who was pro at the time. It's an appealing property in many respects, but has some inherent challenges. Unlike neighboring Stonewall which is a pretty contiguous piece of land, French Creek really is on three separate parcels of land, separated by acres of wetlands and Route 401. And while the design has any number of exceptional golf holes, it never quite overcomes the disjointed nature of the property.
French Creek comes at you with two of its very best holes out of the gate; the first running uphill along a ridge to a grade level green and the remarkable 2nd, a long par four with a green begging for a long-iron runner coming left to right. Balls coming short end up in a valley where recovery options are not only possible but get the creative juices going.
Unfortunately, at that juncture we need to get across wetlands and then a country highway and more wetlands. 3 becomes just a typical wetland crossing long par three and as good as 4 is once you cross the wetlands, some of the back tees simply don't work in any kind of headwind.
And so it goes. A sweet grouping of holes like 5 thru 7 is inevitably followed by necessary transition holes like the drop shot 8th, followed by another long tee shot required over wetlands on the otherwise wonderful 9th to a dual fairway, culminating at a punchbowl green.
It's a testament to how many terrific holes are out there that French Creek still remains a compelling round of golf despite the inherent limitations. Still, terrific holes like 12 & 13 (both long par fours) are offset with clunkers like the 14th, which has been improved (i.e. made more fair) and opened up over the years but has me missing its formerly sadistic quality where death loomed on all sides of a tiny turtleback green.
Thankfully, the course closes with four wonderful holes, including the inscrutable long par three 17th where Bill Kittleman built a fortress of a massive crossing bunker halfway up the fairway.
I guess the alternative on such a property was simply to feature long cart rides past all the naughty bits until the next parcel of land suitable for golf, but enough of those type of courses were built during the past several decades. Instead, we get a very good, if flawed, walkable golf course with some great holes.
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Mountain Valley Golf Course (Mountain or Valley Course) - Barnesville, PA
David Gordon/Herman Yadacufski 1968, Dan Schlegel/Brian Ault 1999, Inhouse 2008
Doak Scale Score - 2
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153742566_864f827d7c_b.jpg)
As undeniably beautiful as the 600 yard 12th hole of the Mountain course is, I wish I could say there was more room on the right than this picture shows (there isn't), and I wish I could say the fairway doesn't cant sharply right to left before encountering an asphalt cart path and looming death in the woods, but I can't.
Exhibits A & B for using a professional architect, especially on challenging terrain, can be found in the 2 golf courses at the sprawling, ambitious, mountainous, wooded 36 hole complex in east-central Pennsylvania that almost no one but the locals have heard about.
Years ago I communicated a bit with late architect and he relayed to me that he routed the first 18 holes built here (which are now interspersed between the two courses), he left during construction because the owner refused to some things Gordon felt were necessary. I played that course about two decades ago and it was much as one might imagine, lacking the fine touches and some needed width of playing corridors. This year, I determined to play what's been built since and play both eighteens.
Around the turn of the century, Dan Schlegel of the Ault/Clark organization was brought to create nine more holes which are mostly visible from Route 81 and today remain the best of what can be found on the property, although those holes are also today interspersed between the two eighteens. The group later routed another nine (also interspersed between the two eighteens today), but once again ownership determined that the playing corridors didn't need to be as wide as recommended and finished the job inhouse.
Somewhere there is a pretty good eighteen hole routing using Schlegel's nine, but it isn't in the two courses in evidence today. Particularly on the newest nine, the holes are narrow, sloped, and narrowly penal to the extreme. I can't imagine the number of lost balls that take place here on a daily basis as it's the land of "hit cart path, one bounce into the inpenetrable woods" and the paths always seem to be on the wrong side of play.
Some yo-yo determined that the Mountain course at over 6,700 yards only merited a 130 slope rating, while the Valley course at slightly less yardage carries a 139 slope rating. Each should be 140 or higher. It is the ultimate Doak Scale 2 and if you play there, I hope you're in a scramble with several six packs of beer.
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You north field types never really get it.
I'd be curious, Mike, if the Mountain Valley rating changes 10 years ago when it was still in the 27 hole configuration. The holes between I-81 and the Burma Road are quite good and the place went a long way to push me into an interest in golf architecture.
I wonder how much the 2 is influenced by the newest holes. The 16-18 stretch on Mountain is EASILY worth a 4 on their merit alone.
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You're absolutely spot-on, Kyle. I did say that somewhere there's a pretty good golf course on the property using the Schlegel nine, but regrettably, 4 of those holes on one course and 5 on the other aren't enough to save how bad the corresponding 4 & 5 are from the inhouse nine.
Maybe as a winter exercise we can re-route the place?
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You're absolutely spot-on, Kyle. I did say that somewhere there's a pretty good golf course on the property using the Schlegel nine, but regrettably, 4 of those holes on one course and 5 on the other aren't enough to save how bad the corresponding 4 & 5 are from the inhouse nine.
Maybe as a winter exercise we can re-route the place?
The routing exists. I think the holes within the elbow of the Brockton Road can be sacrificed (they're okay, but not worth keeping) as well as the newest holes, though the ones on the Valley nine are more playable than the Mountain.
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Ah, Mountain/Valley. The bad so far outweighs the good that it's tough to see the forest through the trees. One of the true torture chambers to try to get your ball around. Admittedly there are some decent holes but it is not a fun day out. Pretty short run up I-81 from my house. In 14 years out here I have yet to hear anyone say that they liked the place and wanted to go back for another round. They stay in business however.
10 rounds of Mountain/Valley versus Rich Maiden...
9-1 Rich Maiden - the 1 is just to remind me that fun, enjoyment and some reasonable chance of finding a wayward shot is why we play golf.
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That proves it -- I'm a sap for aesthetics.
I look at that 15th hole at French Creek and can't honestly give a hoot either about it being driveable or about it presenting me with numerous options. It's just so darn attractive and yet challenging looking that it won me over at 'hello' -- like I'm Nick Charles and it's a lanky brunette with a wicked jaw.
On the other hand, too bad about the 12th hole at Mountain Valley -- it too strikes me as an attractive golf hole, made better by the very things that Mike decries, ie the canted fairway and no room on the right and death in the looming trees. BUT, see: I think that's where the architects didn't trust and accept and embrace what they had, staring them right in the face. As a 340-380 yard Par 4, it would've been terrific -- but they had to go instead to the 'idea' of a true 3-shot Par 5, or they wanted to add length to the course so it wasn't too short etc etc, and thereby wrecked it. Aesthetics, even for me, can only go so far...
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That proves it -- I'm a sap for aesthetics.
I look at that 15th hole at French Creek and can't honestly give a hoot either about it being driveable or about it presenting me with numerous options. It's just so darn attractive and yet challenging looking that it won me over at 'hello' -- like I'm Nick Charles and it's a lanky brunette with a wicked jaw.
On the other hand, too bad about the 12th hole at Mountain Valley -- it too strikes me as an attractive golf hole, made better by the very things that Mike decries, ie the canted fairway and no room on the right and death in the looming trees. BUT, see: I think that's where the architects didn't trust and accept and embrace what they had, staring them right in the face. As a 340-380 yard Par 4, it would've been terrific -- but they had to go instead to the 'idea' of a true 3-shot Par 5, or they wanted to add length to the course so it wasn't too short etc etc, and thereby wrecked it. Aesthetics, even for me, can only go so far...
In the Mountain Valley case it wasn't the architects but the owners who finished it on their own.
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Applebrook Golf Club - Malvern, PA
Gil Hanse 2001
Doak Scale Score - 7
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153277093_3f8edf3138_b.jpg)
The wonderfully tranquil, pastoral look of Applebrook has been slightly compromised in recent years with the addition of housing (and shielding trees) along the left side of 17 & 18, but also affecting the backdrop of holes like the wonderful short par three (121 yards) 11th hole. One can only hope this pattern doesn't continue.
Looking out at the broad expanse of Applebrook Golf Club from the hilltop clubhouse, it's tough to imagine this property was cleared and graded for commercial usage before a group of individuals looking to start a unique club in Chester County acquired the property and hired local architect Gil Hanse to design an old-school type golf course.
Some here on GolfClubAtlas may still recall when Hanse took a group of us around the course during grow-in after we had played his Inniscrone in the morning, one of the very first GCA get-togethers. At the time, we were all younger and very idealistic and drooled over seemingly new concepts like the center bunker on the 2nd shot on 16, or the wild punchbowl in a dell green on the 3rd, or the way one could bounce it in from the right on the approach to the 10th. Thankfully, these traditional concepts have aged well. So has Applebrook, by and large.
Most of the best of the course is due to the fact that the ground game can be utilized and unlike some courses that offer "options", angles of play really do matter here or the ball can get away from you in a hurry. As with most Hanse courses, the best holes tend to be the half-par holes of both stripes, those like the driveable par four 3rd, or the 453 yard 13th (into the prevailing wind) that frankly steals the approach concept of the 13th at Pine Valley. Very few shots in golf are more satisfying than being able to work a low runner from right to left on the approach.
Almost every hole offers something in the way of variety and the course benefits from a fantastic balance of tough and "gettable" holes, often interspersed one after another. Both nines finish with uphill approaches (the par 3 ninth) and the long par four 18th to lovely greens set just below the clubhouse, but unfortunately, the kitschy waterfall and bunker nests splitting the two that the owners insisted on still remain.
Some low-lying housing has also sprung up along the perimeter of the two closing holes. These unfortunate intrusions of civilization and artifice are still not enough to negatively impact that wonderfully pastoral golf experience that precedes them.
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The 202 and 241 yardages I provided are from the back tees that play 7,103 yards.
From the 6681 yard tees the holes are 180 and 217, respectively. Up another set to 6,200 they are 164 and 190.
Here they are for your viewing pleasure.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49173035126_c993af96df_b.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49173265492_8975734f1d_b.jpg)
Thanks for the photos. The first hole is really pretty; also very difficult, but it seems like they've got enough tees that most people can make the carry.
On the longer hole that follows, the fairway to the right is essential, but I can't say I like the hole nearly as much. Then again, there aren't many 240-yard holes that I really like.
It seems like they pushed the yardage on the second hole to try to make them different, at the expense of making it very difficult.
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I find Applebrook to be a pleasant member course but not very challenging or having much compelling variety.
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Berkshire Country Club - Reading, PA
John Reid 1903, Willie Park 1916-23, A.W. Tillinghast 1934, Kelly Blake Moran 2005, Ron Forse/Jim Nagle 2008-2019
Doak Scale Rating - 6.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153279593_c376c6ce15_b.jpg)
Pleasantly quirky surprises abound at Berkshire. Here at the Alps 8th hole the green is set in a punchbowl along a quarry. The golfer on the right playing from one of a nest of bunkers cut into the fronting hillside.
From the category of "hidden gem", little known Berkshire has quietly existed for well over a century, with the exception of the years 1947 through 1949 when it hosted the "Reading Open" on the PGA Tour.
Starting as a nine hole course designed by local professional John Reid, in 1916 the club hired Willie Park, Jr. to design an eighteen hole course. He told them he could only create 14 good holes on the land the club owned and they would need more for 18. World War I intervened and it wasn't until the early 20s when the club acquired an additional 26 acres across the street where today's holes 11-14 were created, again to Park's plan, opening on Memorial Day 1923.
Today's course is one of Park's best preserved, rediscovered in recent years by an extensive tree removal, green-space recapture, and bunker restoration by Jim Nagle & Ron Forse. The results are compelling and rate very high on the fun factor.
Short by today's standards at just shy of 6,400 yards to a par of 71, there are a wide variety of hole yardages with par threes running from the 120 pitch into the quarry on the 9th to the uphill 203 yard 6th with the green set atop the rock quarry wall. Par fours range from the diminutive uphill Alps 8th (302 yards) to beasts like the beautiful 470 yard 5th that runs through a natural valley to a shelved, plateau green. There are only two par fives, the first which at 485 uphill could easily be a par four for tournament medal play for the card and pencil set, but the sweeping 552 yard 5th is another kettle of fish. Set hard along OB right, and rising quickly from the landing area, it's a hole best played conservatively.
Ultimately, it's the pitched, creatively contoured greens that are the heartbeat of Berkshire. Being above the hole is never a good idea, but that's often difficult to achieve as many greens sit high on rises and shallow approaches to firm greens tend to run towards the back. Thankfully, they are kept at speeds befitting their vintage and inherent challenge.
The front nine is terrific, culminating at a quarry coming imaginatively into play on 6, 8, & 9. The back nine is a balanced mix of long and short holes with a street crossing, and reaches a crescendo on the long-par four 15th to a wild green, followed by a lovely mid-length par three, both under the shadow of the clubhouse.
Ultimately, however, the momentum is sadly lost on the 367 yard par four 17th, truncated unwisely from a par five by a swimming pool in the 1950s, and the short uphill 18th over bunkers to a featureless green which looks to have been altered at some point.
Still and all, this is not an invite to turn down.
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Indian Mountain Golf Course - Kresgeville, PA
Francis Warner 1927
Doak Scale Score - 2.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153783001_51612e0c76_b.jpg)
This vintage family-oriented nine hole course provides a great value proposition in the wooded Pocono Mountains.
Indian Mountain was started with ambitious plans by some of the officials of the Golf Association of Philadelphia and designed by the organization's secretary Francis Warner (i.e Paxon Hollow). It was originally intended to be an eighteen holes course with an airport and was touted as a cool, summer getaway. Somewhat incredibly, news reports said the founders believed that in coming years personal aircraft would become as ubiquitous as the automobile and they envisioned that the members would each simply fly 30 minutes north to play conveniently.
Alas, the Great Depression and WWII intervened and only nine holes were cleared and built, sans airport. Somehow, private ownership kept the place going and at one time a second nine of short par three holes was created, since abandoned.
What's left is a very modest, decently maintained course where one can pull into the gravel parking lot, pay a cheap rate in the small shed serving as a clubhouse, and walk or ride around a decent, forgiving course that manages to sneak three or four cool holes in at the end of the round.
The first four holes are basic golf, going up and down the same broad slope and thankfully the area is largely gang-mowed to accommodate a wide range of abilities without a lot of searching for balls. Things start to get more interesting once a climb is made to an upper plateau on the 5th which is a longish par four set into the sidehill, followed by the uphill dogleg left 5th.
The 6th is a superb par five where a large bunker in the right side of the fairway needs to be challenged to have any shot of going for the green in two, or having a decent angle for the second shot, which narrows quickly in the last 150 yards. Following is a fun drop shot par three (pictured above), with a finishing par five where again an aggressive play towards a left-side fairway bunker is rewarded while the hole features lot of room to the right for the less adventurous.
Cheap options to play the game are undervalued and Indian Mountain has been a place where I've brought my kids and nephews and hopefully soon my grandkids. We won't be flying there, however.
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No wonder Cory Lewis lapped you in courses played long ago - it's taken you this long to have a golf course I'd never heard of!
Terrain similar to Paxon Hollow? Paxon is easily a Doak 5, to me.
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French Creek Golf Club
Gil Hanse/Jim Wagner/Bill Kittleman/Jeff Broadbelt 2003
Doak Scale Score - 6
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153773686_b06fa7727b_b.jpg)
The short par four 15th hole presents numerous options, and is driveable from the member tees. (Photo courtesy of Hanse Golf Design)
I first walked French Creek back during grow-in with my friend Eric Pevoto who was pro at the time. It's an appealing property in my respects, but has some inherent challenges. Unlike neighboring Stonewall which is a pretty contiguous piece of land, French Creek really is on three separate parcels of land, separated by acres of wetlands and Route 401. And while the design has any number of exceptional golf holes, it never quite overcomes the disjointed nature of the property.
French Creek comes at you with two of its very best holes out of the gate; the first running uphill along a ridge to a grade level green and the remarkable 2nd, a long par four with a green begging for a long-iron runner coming left to right. Balls coming short end up in a valley where recovery options are not only possible but get the creative juices going.
Unfortunately, at that juncture we need to get across wetlands and then a country highway and more wetlands. 3 becomes just a typical wetland crossing long par three and as good as 4 is once you cross the wetlands, some of the back tees simply don't work in any kind of headwind.
And so it goes. A sweet grouping of holes like 5 thru 7 is inevitably followed by necessary transition holes like the drop shot 8th, followed by another long tee shot required over wetlands on the otherwise wonderful 9th to a dual fairway, culminating at a punchbowl green.
It's a testament to how many terrific holes are out there that French Creek still remains a compelling round of golf despite the inherent limitations. Still, terrific holes like 12 & 13 (both long par fours) are offset with clunkers like the 14th, which has been improved (i.e. made more fair) and opened up over the years but has me missing its formerly sadistic quality where death loomed on all sides of a tiny turtleback green.
Thankfully, the course closes with four wonderful holes, including the inscrutable long par three 17th where Bill Kittleman built a fortress of a massive crossing bunker halfway up the fairway.
I guess the alternative on such a property was simply to feature long cart rides past all the naughty bits until the next parcel of land suitable for golf, but enough of those type of courses were built during the past several decades. Instead, we get a very good, if flawed, walkable golf course with some great holes.
More FC photos from a summer of 2016 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/FrenchCreekGC/index.html
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Mountain Valley Golf Course (Mountain or Valley Course) - Barnesville, PA
David Gordon/Herman Yadacufski 1968, Dan Schlegel/Brian Ault 1999, Inhouse 2008
Doak Scale Score - 2
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153742566_864f827d7c_b.jpg)
As undeniably beautiful as the 600 yard 12th hole of the Mountain course is, I wish I could say there was more room on the right than this picture shows (there isn't), and I wish I could say the fairway doesn't cant sharply right to left before encountering an asphalt cart path and looming death in the woods, but I can't.
Exhibits A & B for using a professional architect, especially on challenging terrain, can be found in the 2 golf courses at the sprawling, ambitious, mountainous, wooded 36 hole complex in east-central Pennsylvania that almost no one but the locals have heard about.
Years ago I communicated a bit with late architect and he relayed to me that he routed the first 18 holes built here (which are now interspersed between the two courses), he left during construction because the owner refused to some things Gordon felt were necessary. I played that course about two decades ago and it was much as one might imagine, lacking the fine touches and some needed width of playing corridors. This year, I determined to play what's been built since and play both eighteens.
Around the turn of the century, Dan Schlegel of the Ault/Clark organization was brought to create nine more holes which are mostly visible from Route 81 and today remain the best of what can be found on the property, although those holes are also today interspersed between the two eighteens. The group later routed another nine (also interspersed between the two eighteens today), but once again ownership determined that the playing corridors didn't need to be as wide as recommended and finished the job inhouse.
Somewhere there is a pretty good eighteen hole routing using Schlegel's nine, but it isn't in the two courses in evidence today. Particularly on the newest nine, the holes are narrow, sloped, and narrowly penal to the extreme. I can't imagine the number of lost balls that take place here on a daily basis as it's the land of "hit cart path, one bounce into the inpenetrable woods" and the paths always seem to be on the wrong side of play.
Some yo-yo determined that the Mountain course at over 6,700 yards only merited a 130 slope rating, while the Valley course at slightly less yardage carries a 139 slope rating. Each should be 140 or higher. It is the ultimate Doak Scale 2 and if you play there, I hope you're in a scramble with several six packs of beer.
More photos of Mountain Valley (Valley course):
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/MountainValleyValley/index.html
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Applebrook Golf Club - Malvern, PA
Gil Hanse 2001
Doak Scale Score - 7
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153277093_3f8edf3138_b.jpg)
The wonderfully tranquil, pastoral look of Applebrook has been slightly compromised in recent years with the addition of housing (and shielding trees) along the left side of 17 & 18, but also affecting the backdrop of holes like the wonderful short par three (121 yards) 11th hole. One can only hope this pattern doesn't continue.
Looking out at the broad expanse of Applebrook Golf Club from the hilltop clubhouse, it's tough to imagine this property was cleared and graded for commercial usage before a group of individuals looking to start a unique club in Chester County acquired the property and hired local architect Gil Hanse to design an old-school type golf course.
Some here on GolfClubAtlas may still recall when Hanse took a group of us around the course during grow-in after we had played his Inniscrone in the morning, one of the very first GCA get-togethers. At the time, we were all younger and very idealistic and drooled over seemingly new concepts like the center bunker on the 2nd shot on 16, or the wild punchbowl in a dell green on the 3rd, or the way one could bounce it in from the right on the approach to the 10th. Thankfully, these traditional concepts have aged well. So has Applebrook, by and large.
Most of the best of the course is due to the fact that the ground game can be utilized and unlike some courses that offer "options", angles of play really do matter here or the ball can get away from you in a hurry. As with most Hanse courses, the best holes tend to be the half-par holes of both stripes, those like the driveable par four 3rd, or the 453 yard 13th (into the prevailing wind) that frankly steals the approach concept of the 13th at Pine Valley. Very few shots in golf are more satisfying than being able to work a low runner from right to left on the approach.
Almost every hole offers something in the way of variety and the course benefits from a fantastic balance of tough and "gettable" holes, often interspersed one after another. Both nines finish with uphill approaches (the par 3 ninth) and the long par four 18th to lovely greens set just below the clubhouse, but unfortunately, the kitschy waterfall and bunker nests splitting the two that the owners insisted on still remain.
Some low-lying housing has also sprung up along the perimeter of the two closing holes. These unfortunate intrusions of civilization and artifice are still not enough to negatively impact that wonderfully pastoral golf experience that precedes them.
More photos of Applebrook from a June 2017 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Applebrook/index.html
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Berkshire Country Club - Reading, PA
John Reid 1903, Willie Park 1916-23, A.W. Tillinghast 1934, Kelly Blake Moran 2005, Ron Forse/Jim Nagle 2008-2019
Doak Scale Rating - 6.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153279593_c376c6ce15_b.jpg)
Pleasantly quirky surprises abound at Berkshire. Here at the Alps 8th hole the green is set in a punchbowl along a quarry. The golfer on the right playing from one of a nest of bunkers cut into the fronting hillside.
From the category of "hidden gem", little known Berkshire has quietly existed for well over a century, with the exception of the years 1947 through 1949 when it hosted the "Reading Open" on the PGA Tour.
Starting as a nine hole course designed by local professional John Reid, in 1916 the club hired Willie Park, Jr. to design an eighteen hole course. He told them he could only create 14 good holes on the land the club owned and they would need more for 18. World War I intervened and it wasn't until the early 20s when the club acquired an additional 26 acres across the street where today's holes 11-14 were created, again to Park's plan, opening on Memorial Day 1923.
Today's course is one of Park's best preserved, rediscovered in recent years by an extensive tree removal, green-space recapture, and bunker restoration by Jim Nagle & Ron Forse. The results are compelling and rate very high on the fun factor.
Short by today's standards at just shy of 6,400 yards to a par of 71, there are a wide variety of hole yardages with par threes running from the 120 pitch into the quarry on the 9th to the uphill 203 yard 6th with the green set atop the rock quarry wall. Par fours range from the diminutive uphill Alps 8th (302 yards) to beasts like the beautiful 470 yard 5th that runs through a natural valley to a shelved, plateau green. There are only two par fives, the first which at 485 uphill could easily be a par four for tournament medal play for the card and pencil set, but the sweeping 552 yard 5th is another kettle of fish. Set hard along OB right, and rising quickly from the landing area, it's a hole best played conservatively.
Ultimately, it's the pitched, creatively contoured greens that are the heartbeat of Berkshire. Being above the hole is never a good idea, but that's often difficult to achieve as many greens sit high on rises and shallow approaches to firm greens tend to run towards the back. Thankfully, they are kept at speeds befitting their vintage and inherent challenge.
The front nine is terrific, culminating at a quarry coming imaginatively into play on 6, 8, & 9. The back nine is a balanced mix of long and short holes with a street crossing, and reaches a crescendo on the long-par four 15th to a wild green, followed by a lovely mid-length par three, both under the shadow of the clubhouse.
Ultimately, however, the momentum is sadly lost on the 367 yard par four 17th, truncated unwisely from a par five by a swimming pool in the 1950s, and the short uphill 18th over bunkers to a featureless green which looks to have been altered at some point.
Still and all, this is not an invite to turn down.
More photos from the day at Berkshire, a course I love:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Berkshire_2019/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Berkshire_2019/index.html)
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No wonder Cory Lewis lapped you in courses played long ago - it's taken you this long to have a golf course I'd never heard of!
Terrain similar to Paxon Hollow? Paxon is easily a Doak 5, to me.
Paxon terrain steeper in several spots. Indian Mountain just a pleasant course with a few cool holes. Agreed on the 5.
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United States Naval Academy Golf Course - Annapolis, MD
Harry Collis 1928, William Flynn 1944, Bob Williams 1954
Doak Scale Score 5.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153285528_caef53198a_b.jpg)
Cool holes like the little downhill shot to a volcano green are a big reason why so many are so fond of the course.
We were able to play USNA right before going under construction with a renovation project by Andrew Green, and I was thrilled at the opportunity. The place is brimming with patriotic history and the golf course, while a bit tired, is certainly deserving of more love and care.
Anything I say here would be talking about the course as it was this past spring and I'll only say that the photos I've seen to date of the work look very encouraging. As with most Flynn courses, the routing uses the natural, rolling terrain rather well, and although it's not possible to completely restore the course to what it was in 1944 due to some land use changes by the Navy, one hopes that the Flynn genius will be still clearly evident when the work is done.
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Mountain Laurel Golf Course - White Haven, PA
Geoffrey Cornish/William Robinson 1970
Doak Scale Score - 3
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153788066_ca4689a250_b.jpg)
Although it's largely a forgiving course, the par five 9th at Mountain Laurel requires a drive that splits the lane between two lakes before swinging uphill.
The late Geoffrey Cornish built any number of courses during this era in the northeast and they all seemed to provide reasonably interesting and sound golf with a twist or two thrown in and Mountain Laurel is no exception.
Like 1970s bell bottoms, some of the features like his elevated bunkers, built into mounds for draining (I'm assuming) with floors often higher than the greens surface and their cloverleaf shaping are still a bit cringe-worthy. The greens are almost all comfortably large, reliant on some tiering and softer, subtle slopes than anything wildly undulating, yet sometimes they can be more difficult to read than more severe greens.
Generally generous fairways and fairway bunkers only in the landing zone are the order of the day. At Mountain Laurel, as at nearby Wilkes Barre Municipal, Cornish conjoins his first green with the green of a later hole (in this case the 7th) to create a double green that is surely a nod to his love of The Old Course.
But Cornish also seemed to enjoy a bit of novelty, and at Mountain Laurel the short par four downhill 10th requires an approach to an island green. It may be an interesting trivia question to determine the first island green built post WWII but I wouldn't be surprised if this one is in the running.
The mostly open and gently rolling front nine becomes a bit tighter on the back nine as more severe, wooded terrain is navigated, but swaths are cut wide enough through the woods to be very playable. Cornish saved the best for last as the uphill par five 16th plays Alps-like to a green down in a dell behind a steep rise, the 17th stretches out of the woods back into a lovely open plain, and the 230 yard par three 18th is another novel finish.
Forgiving and playable throughout, I think the course belies Cornish's generous nature. In the case of Mountain Laurel, the Doak Scale of 3 being about an average golf course shows that by and large, that's a pretty high standard overall.
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Indian Mountain Golf Course - Kresgeville, PA
Francis Warner 1927
Doak Scale Score - 2.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153783001_51612e0c76_b.jpg)
This vintage family-oriented nine hole course provides a great value proposition in the wooded Pocono Mountains.
Indian Mountain was started with ambitious plans by some of the officials of the Golf Association of Philadelphia and designed by the organization's secretary Francis Warner (i.e Paxon Hollow). It was originally intended to be an eighteen holes course with an airport and was touted as a cool, summer getaway. Somewhat incredibly, news reports said the founders believed that in coming years personal aircraft would become as ubiquitous as the automobile and they envisioned that the members would each simply fly 30 minutes north to play conveniently.
Alas, the Great Depression and WWII intervened and only nine holes were cleared and built, sans airport. Somehow, private ownership kept the place going and at one time a second nine of short par three holes was created, since abandoned.
What's left is a very modest, decently maintained course where one can pull into the gravel parking lot, pay a cheap rate in the small shed serving as a clubhouse, and walk or ride around a decent, forgiving course that manages to sneak three or four cool holes in at the end of the round.
The first four holes are basic golf, going up and down the same broad slope and thankfully the area is largely gang-mowed to accommodate a wide range of abilities without a lot of searching for balls. Things start to get more interesting once a climb is made to an upper plateau on the 5th which is a longish par four set into the sidehill, followed by the uphill dogleg left 5th.
The 6th is a superb par five where a large bunker in the right side of the fairway needs to be challenged to have any shot of going for the green in two, or having a decent angle for the second shot, which narrows quickly in the last 150 yards. Following is a fun drop shot par three (pictured above), with a finishing par five where again an aggressive play towards a left-side fairway bunker is rewarded while the hole features lot of room to the right for the less adventurous.
Cheap options to play the game are undervalued and Indian Mountain has been a place where I've brought my kids and nephews and hopefully soon my grandkids. We won't be flying there, however.
More photos of Indian Mountain from June of this year:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/IndianMountain/index.html
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United States Naval Academy Golf Course - Annapolis, MD
Harry Collis 1928, William Flynn 1944, Bob Williams 1954
Doak Scale Score 5.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153285528_caef53198a_b.jpg)
Cool holes like the little downhill shot to a volcano green are a big reason why so many are so fond of the course.
We were able to play USNA right before going under construction with a renovation project by Andrew Green, and I was thrilled at the opportunity. The place is brimming with patriotic history and the golf course, while a bit tired, is certainly deserving of more love and care.
Anything I say here would be talking about the course as it was this past spring and I'll only say that the photos I've seen to date of the work look very encouraging. As with most Flynn courses, the routing uses the natural, rolling terrain rather well, and although it's not possible to completely restore the course to what it was in 1944 due to some land use changes by the Navy, one hopes that the Flynn genius will be still clearly evident when the work is done.
More photos of the Naval Academy course from that day:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/NavalAcademy/index.html
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Mountain Laurel Golf Course - White Haven, PA
Geoffrey Cornish/William Robinson 1970
Doak Scale Score - 3
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153788066_ca4689a250_b.jpg)
Although it's largely a forgiving course, the par five 9th at Mountain Laurel requires a drive that splits the lane between two lakes before swinging uphill.
The late Geoffrey Cornish built any number of courses during this era in the northeast and they all seemed to provide reasonably interesting and sound golf with a twist or two thrown in and Mountain Laurel is no exception.
Like 1970s bell bottoms, some of the features like his elevated bunkers, built into mounds for draining (I'm assuming) with floors often higher than the greens surface and their cloverleaf shaping are still a bit cringe-worthy. The greens are almost all comfortably large, reliant on some tiering and softer, subtle slopes than anything wildly undulating, yet sometimes they can be more difficult to read than more severe greens.
Generally generous fairways and fairway bunkers only in the landing zone are the order of the day. At Mountain Laurel, as at nearby Wilkes Barre Municipal, Cornish conjoins his first green with the green of a later hole (in this case the 7th) to create a double green that is surely a nod to his love of The Old Course.
But Cornish also seemed to enjoy a bit of novelty, and at Mountain Laurel the short par four downhill 10th requires an approach to an island green. It may be an interesting trivia question to determine the first island green built post WWII but I wouldn't be surprised if this one is in the running.
The mostly open and gently rolling front nine becomes a bit tighter on the back nine as more severe, wooded terrain is navigated, but swaths are cut wide enough through the woods to be very playable. Cornish saved the best for last as the uphill par five 16th plays Alps-like to a green down in a dell behind a steep rise, the 17th stretches out of the woods back into a lovely open plain, and the 230 yard par three 18th is another novel finish.
Forgiving and playable throughout, I think the course belies Cornish's generous nature. In the case of Mountain Laurel, the Doak Scale of 3 being about an average golf course shows that by and large, that's a pretty high standard overall.
More photos of Mountain Laurel from a July 2018 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/MountainLaurel/index.html
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Short, downhill, par-4 10th to an island green? Sounds to me like an ode to the original 10th at Baltusrol's Old Course (which Tilly plowed under to build the Upper/Lower). That hole was pretty famous in its day (it was probably the first ever island green), and there are even extant photos.
Sure enough, when I look at Joe's pic of the 10th, it could even look a little like that hole. I would not be surprised....
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Short, downhill, par-4 10th to an island green? Sounds to me like an ode to the original 10th at Baltusrol's Old Course (which Tilly plowed under to build the Upper/Lower). That hole was pretty famous in its day (it was probably the first ever island green), and there are even extant photos.
Sure enough, when I look at Joe's pic of the 10th, it could even look a little like that hole. I would not be surprised....
Greg,
That's an interesting observation.
The island hole concept seems to have been pretty popular in the first few decades of the 20th century but I struggle to think of any others built after WWII and before TPC Sawgrass, which may explain why so many thought the concept entirely novel. This one of Geoff Cornish did precede Dye in modern times, though.
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Community Golf Course (Hills Course) - Dayton, OH
Joe Nicoll 1914,1918,1922, Earl Shock/Donald Ross 1923, Alex Campbell 1927
Doak Scale Score - 4
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153952472_28fe76ae6e_b.jpg)
The winding 3rd hole features a steeply uphill approach to a green that runs from front to back.
Back in 1924, a true Rocky story happened in Philadelphia only it didn't involve boxing, but rather golf. Italian immigrant Joe Coble came to the United States with his brothers at age 11, landed in New Jersey and soon was caddying at Baltusrol. Incredibly, he caddied for Jerry Travers when the latter won the 1915 US Open there.
Coble went off to Europe to fight in World War I and when he returned moved to Philadelphia. Learning there was a public golf course available to him a Cobb's Creek, Coble took a job just down the street near 69th street station working as a waiter in an all-night restaurant. Enamored (obsessed?) with golf, Coble would leave his job in the middle of the night, sleep 3 hours, walk in the dark to the golf course where he would practice and play and practice and play virtually every day. Somehow he also had time to fall in love and get married to one of waitresses who was several years older than him, and they had two daughters.
Before long Coble was setting scoring records at the course and some folks entered him in tournaments at nearby private courses where he performed exceptionally well. In 1923 he went to the US Public Links tournament losing in the semi-final but the following year when the tournament was held in Dayton, Ohio at the Hills course of Community Golf Club he managed to win despite the crowd openly rooting against him largely because of his silent, stoic nature.
There's much more to the story but that will have to wait for the book. ;)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49209990888_90ebbf061d_b.jpg)
Joe Coble driving from the first tee at Community Golf Course during the 1924 U.S. Public Links tournament.
In any case, once I learned that not only did Community Golf Course still exist, but that it was virtually unchanged from the course Coble played, I made it a personal mission to get there. People at the clubhouse seemed surprised by my zeal when I arrived Coble-like at the crack of dawn but sometimes I think it's a case of not fully appreciating what you have. For indeed, despite less than manicured conditioning, the golf course itself was quite good, and in places, thrilling.
The course(s) were a gift to the city from John D. Patterson, who started the National Cash Register Company. Set on a parkland property that climbs into some rather hilly terrain, two courses (the Hills and Dales) were fashioned here. (the full story can be found here https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63914.msg1606286.html#msg1606286 (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63914.msg1606286.html#msg1606286) )
The Hills course essentially plays around the perimeter of the property which is by far the most interesting and challenging terrain while the shorter Dales course sits mostly in the flattish plain in the middle. There's a lot to like here, and I found myself very impressed by the ability of Coble and his opponent Henry Decker playing a 36 hole finale on foot, with the Coble winning 2&1. These guys were made of sterner stuff.
So if you find yourself in Dayton with a few hours to spare, take a walk in their footsteps, or maybe even ride, and see if you don't find the same charm in the low-key setting surrounded by history and some rather good golf.
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Short, downhill, par-4 10th to an island green? Sounds to me like an ode to the original 10th at Baltusrol's Old Course (which Tilly plowed under to build the Upper/Lower). That hole was pretty famous in its day (it was probably the first ever island green), and there are even extant photos.
Sure enough, when I look at Joe's pic of the 10th, it could even look a little like that hole. I would not be surprised....
Greg,
That's an interesting observation.
The island hole concept seems to have been pretty popular in the first few decades of the 20th century but I struggle to think of any others built after WWII and before TPC Sawgrass, which may explain why so many thought the concept entirely novel. This one of Geoff Cornish did precede Dye in modern times, though.
I doubt Mr. Cornish was thinking of Baltusrol or any other older course in particular. His research into who did what (along with Ron Whitten) led him to be considered an historian on the subject of architecture, but most of the courses he built bore little resemblance to Golden Age designs.
Interestingly, though, his design of Sterling Farms in CT [where I learned to play] includes a par-4 14th hole where you drove between two ponds, much like your picture of the 9th at Mountain Laurel, Mike. That was a right-to-left tee shot, but it does play from enough of an elevated tee that you can see the two ponds okay.
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Interestingly, though, his design of Sterling Farms in CT [where I learned to play] includes a par-4 14th hole where you drove between two ponds, much like your picture of the 9th at Mountain Laurel, Mike. That was a right-to-left tee shot, but it does play from enough of an elevated tee that you can see the two ponds okay.
Tom,
Yes, same with the tees at Mountain Laurel. You can clearly see the edges of both ponds, as well as the 50% odds of watching the splash. ;)
Interestingly, where I grew up playing public golf courses in northeastern PA, those Cornish designs were the cream of the crop. I still remember the day my dad took us for a ride and we saw a sign for Wilkes Barre Municipal Golf Course. Excitedly we got out of the car and walked around and OMG, this course had nice playing conditions and multiple cloverleaf bunkers on each hole. Most of the courses we played had either no bunkers at all or a few ratty ones, but certainly nothing impressive. In fact, there were (are?) 72 bunkers out there, and a number of ponds in play on a course cut through the woods.
Not sure if my dad had this planned all along but then we drove further south and ended up at "Le Chateau Golf Resort", aka today's Mountain Laurel, and from our little walk around the clubhouse we could see the island 10th green and my brothers and I were almost pre-orgasmic. We thought we'd found a slice of heaven, and within the next year or so we managed to play both courses. They were as good as we thought they would be.
Cornish designed a number of other courses in our region (i.e. Mill Race, Sugarloaf) and you're correct, Tom...they certainly weren't throwback to Golden Age in any respect except perhaps the double greens.
Nevertheless, much like a J.C. Penney's I think they served a certain market niche in their time and those courses still represent a certain point in our golf course architectural evolution that I remain fond of, for purely those sentimental reasons.
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Mike ~
Thanks, again for taking the time to post the photos and your comments about your 2019 golf course journey. The only way you could improve upon this would be add more photos ! !
Had a nice golf jaunt to Ohio myself that included Moraine and NCR in Dayton. Great golf town and area.
Also - looking forward to seeing the Flynn course at the Naval Academy get the loving care it needs and deserves, I will have to make a point to call on my friends in the Annapolis area next year.
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Mike ~
Thanks, again for taking the time to post the photos and your comments about your 2019 golf course journey. The only way you could improve upon this would be add more photos ! !
Had a nice golf jaunt to Ohio myself that included Moraine and NCR in Dayton. Great golf town and area.
Also - looking forward to seeing the Flynn course at the Naval Academy get the loving care it needs and deserves, I will have to make a point to call on my friends in the Annapolis area next year.
Bill,
Thanks for the nice segue. Moraine is next. :)
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Moraine Country Club - Dayton, OH
Alex "Nipper" Campbell 1930, Dick Wilson 1955, Keith Foster 2007-2016
Doak Scale Score - 8
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153749481_a01321d88c_b.jpg)
The beautiful downhill tee shot on the 7th almost begs for an aggressive tee shot but after the golfer takes that bait is when the real "fun" usually begins.
Since Ran has previously provided his usually stellar review of Moraine here I'll just offer a few additional thoughts...
http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/moraine-country-club/ (http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/moraine-country-club/)
Moraine is an exquisite golf course on exceptional golf land. Named for the glacial features that shaped this property, the course heaves and rolls and twists along the terrain and Alex Campbell lovingly used the natural features brilliantly.
After a decade of restoration work by Keith Foster, accompanied by considerable removal of trees, the course once again shines by letting the land do it's thing. My only knock on the Foster re-do is I feel he loses some of the micro-contours of the greens themselves, ending in longer broad slopes. I have the same criticism of his work at Philly Cricket in my neighborhood. I suspect this is a combination of an unintended, unavoidable consequence of moving from older, push-up greens to USGA spec greens, and some desire by the club to soften slopes to accommodate faster green speeds. Either way, I find it regrettable.
The least interesting portion of the course is not surprisingly also the lowest elevation point of the property coming at holes 10-11-12, which all occupy flattish ground intersected by a creek, the only water hazard on the property. Yet, viewed objectively, each is a very good and testing golf hole, even without the heaving and wild earth-forms that so many of the holes occupy that takes them from sound conceptual golf design to brilliant real world play-ability.
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Hmmm.
An 8, you say.
Maybe the trees weren't so bad after all.
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Next up...
Scioto
Muirfield.Village
Double Eagle
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Community Golf Course (Hills Course) - Dayton, OH
Joe Nicoll 1914,1918,1922, Earl Shock/Donald Ross 1923, Alex Campbell 1927
Doak Scale Score - 4
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153952472_28fe76ae6e_b.jpg)
The winding 3rd hole features a steeply uphill approach to a green that runs
In any case, once I learned that not only did Community Golf Course still exist, but that it was virtually unchanged from the course Coble played, I made it a personal mission to get there. People at the clubhouse seemed surprised by my zeal when I arrived Coble-like at the crack of dawn but sometimes I think it's a case of not fully appreciating what you have. For indeed, despite less than manicured conditioning, the golf course itself was quite good, and in places, thrilling.
The course(s) were a gift to the city from John D. Patterson, who started the National Cash Register Company. Set on a parkland property that climbs into some rather hilly terrain, two courses (the Hills and Dales) were fashioned here. (the full story can be found here https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63914.msg1606286.html#msg1606286 (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63914.msg1606286.html#msg1606286) )
The Hills course essentially plays around the perimeter of the property which is by far the most interesting and challenging terrain while the shorter Dales course sits mostly in the flattish plain in the middle. There's a lot to like here, and I found myself very impressed by the ability of Coble and his opponent Henry Decker playing a 36 hole finale on foot, with the Coble winning 2&1. These guys were made of sterner stuff.
So if you find yourself in Dayton with a few hours to spare, take a walk in their footsteps, or maybe even ride, and see if you don't find the same charm in the low-key setting surrounded by history and some rather good golf.
Finally a course I have played (well I’ve played Olde Stonewall, Indian Hills and Mountain Laurel) . . .
Did you play both the Hills and Dales? I played them both several years ago nd my day started on the Hills and I played the first several holes with a light snow cover! The Hills is the better of the two courses: it has the better terrain, better green sites and the history as well.
Chris
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Chris,
I only played the Hills course as I arrived when it was still dark trying to squeeze it in before Moraine, where I was supposed to play at 11am.
Thankfully, the local regulars let me out ahead of them as a single at around 7am so I was able to easily get it done but not in time for the Dales.
I'm a Muni rat at heart and I've played municipals in almost every city I've visited over the years and I thought Community in Dayton was exceptional in almost every respect. The regulars still couldn't understand why I would visit such a place but maybe they just don't know how good they have it.
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Scioto Country Club - Columbus, OH
Donald Ross 1916, Marion Packard 1955, Dick Wilson/Joe Lee 1963, Bob Cupp 1983, Michael Hurdzan/Jack Nicklaus 2007
Doak Scale Score - 7
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153253983_8c77d4f78d_b.jpg)
The land on which Scioto sits is primo for golf, but the gussy presentation needs reconsideration to best showcase holes like the all-world long par four 2nd.
Scioto has a long and storied history yet some of the architectural changes made over the years have taken it a long way from the Donald Ross origins. Dick Wilson made some modernistic changes in the 1960s but the most recent revisions made by Michael Hurdzan and Jack Nicklaus around 2007 are particularly egregious. The bunkers look to be the overly fussy stylistic ones Hurdzan did during his partnership with Dana Fry and on such a classic course are hurtful to the eye and don't lend themselves to much-needed recoverable playability due to their capricious nature.
It's a muscular golf course and the smallish greens probably explain a lot how Jack Nicklaus developed his incredible long-iron game in his youth. It is also a course with very little tolerance for poor execution and probably too much golf course for many of the members and their guests, what with elevated target greens very pinched in by bunkers.
The courses is masterfully draped over an appealing landscape with a beautiful routing and such obviously great holes as 2, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, and 16 deserve better than their current presentation. Thankfully, the club is presently considering a plan by architect Andrew Green to take them back to their Ross roots, with holes inspired by a 1926 drawing of the course Ross originally built. Hopefully the club will execute successfully because the potential is significant.
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Muirfield Village Golf Club - Dublin, OH
Jack Nicklaus/Desmond Muirhead 1974, Jack Nicklaus 2000-2018 and beyond
Doak Scale Rating - 6.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153962312_e4690feff0_b.jpg)
I can't imagine many people walking off the 18th green excited to run back out to the 1st tee for another go-round.
The first thing that comes to mind about Muirfield Village is that it's a course built to suit a purpose, and that is to play host to Jack's annual tournament featuring the best players in the world. Nicklaus always revered Bobby Jones, and admired the legacy Jones originally built with Mackenzie at Augusta with holes that attempted to copy classic features Bobby loved at St. Andrews, and Jack was inspired to do similarly back in his hometown of Columbus.
Jack also learned to love the links courses of the British Isles, and decided to name his club after the club where he won the 1966 British Open, as well as an earlier Walker Cup. Muirfield Village opened in 1974 to considerable acclaim and has since hosted a slew of significant tournaments and I had to keep reminding myself of that fact as I progressed through the round.
In fact, it is nearly impossible to objectively divorce Muirfield Village from its tournament history and reputation as "Jack's Place", yet if one is to fairly rate its status simply as a golf course one must try. From a tournament perspective for the very top echelon of the game, it seems to work and everyone seemingly agrees.
As a course for the rest of us trying to navigate the golf holes, it requires/demands any number of golf shots well above the capabilities of most mortals. For a high-handicapper, it's a train wreck waiting to happen. The vast majority of holes introduce water as a hazard, normally on the approach shot with some aqua right up against fully nine greens. The greens themselves usually present as small, diagonal, shallow or narrow targets requiring utmost in precision. The course slope rating from the white tees is a measly 147, for crying out loud!
Although the routing is solid, I also found it perplexing that the course Nicklaus chose for his memorial is essentially a real estate development. Thankfully, the houses are well set back, often on hillsides above the holes, but one wonders what could have been if that element hadn't been a primary focus and limiting element of the routing. What any of this has to do with an homage to anything in the Home of Golf is beyond me.
Over the years, the course has been tinkered with by Nicklaus almost continually, which unfortunately has led to the creation of gawdawful penal holes like the 16th, which seems to be an attempt to emulate 16 at ANGC but gets none of the angles right.
Muirfield Village is the poster child illustrating that the pursuit of trying to challenge top professionals a week each year eventually makes the course irrelevant for the rest of us. The fact that the course is closing for yet another round of significant changes confirms my instincts.
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Double Eagle Golf Club - Galena, OH
Jay Morrish/Tom Weiskopf 1991, Tom Weiskopf 2018
Doak Scale Score - 6
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153965482_fd8a6eba32_b.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153965482_fd8a6eba32_b.jpg)
Double Eagle features a number of holes the cross a steep ravine on the front nine, most narrowly on the 7th.
Double Eagle is quite the exclusive enclave with limited membership and apparently money to burn. Conditioning is kept to an impossibly high standard and club management informs guests they'll pay $100 if they can find any poa annua on the greens. Thankfully, I resisted the urge to respond that I kinda like poa.
Nevertheless, after a woodsy, somewhat constricted front-nine with several approaches requiring full carry gully crossings, things suddenly picked up considerably on the lovely split-fairway 9th with a blind approach followed by the more open back nine with a number of holes (particularly the par fives) of vivid strategic interest and playability. The 15th was notable as a decent Cape Hole type teeshot, and the 17th was the prototypical Morrish/Weiskopf drivable par four with a green up against water.
The 18th hole was a standout, and unlike anything I believe I've seen prior. Driving over a pond to a fairway featuring two centerline bunkers (the second lurking blind behind the first) set in a ridge, a good drive leaves three options for the second shot; 1) make a long water carry to a very tilted green at a very shallow angle, 2) make almost as long a water carry to a stretch of fairway right (protected by a bunker) that provides an optimum angle for a short third shot approach to a very tilted green, or 3) lay up short of the water trying to accomplish option 1 only with a much shorter club. Even with this kitchen sink approach, somehow it all works and it's an almost ideal match-play hole.
One big letdown was the fact that with very few exceptions (the 9th, 15th & 18th being the most notable) the greens had very little internal contour or even much slope. We were told to play about half of what we saw a putt breaking and that was sound advice if a bit tepid in terms of interest. All in all I felt the course suffered by trying too hard to be special, like the prom date who spends half the day in the bathroom getting ready. It achieved a sort of antiseptic perfection but that ultimately seemed somewhat sterile.
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You need to get out more! ;)
Keep up the wonderful reviews, Mike.
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Mike,
thanks, really enjoying this.
An aside:
it just goes to show how matters of taste get involved in rating a course.
Morraine and Scioto serve as a good example:
My earlier post reflects my belief/taste that 'one size does not fit all'.
The tree clearing at Moraine (that you like) is to me 'ill suited' to the site.
The 'de-forestation' at a course like Oakmont worked because it revealed the massive scale and broad sweeps of the original design; and if there was a Raynor course that had been marred over the decades by tree planting, I can imagine a similar culling would bring to the forefront that course's striking and dramatic original features.
But Morraine, from your photos and Ran's, seems originally to have had neither -- ie neither the inherent majesty of the former, nor the (imagined) bold geometric beauty of the latter. What did the tree clearing reveal there, save for maybe the 'tree clearing' itself?
Scioto, on the other hand, strikes me as being still pretty much what it always was, and what it was once meant to be. To me, it looks much more like 'itself' than Morraine now does.
I think, if I was in a rater's shoes, I would probably give bonus points to one and not to the other -- and might even take a few decimal points away from the other.
That neither is, say, Ballyneal I wouldn't hold against either of them; but I might be a little critical of a course that tried to capture a Ballyneal's 'expansive look' when it had no business doing so.
Anyway, just an aside: please carry on.
P
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Pietro
I think I know what you mean re Moraine. Although, despite what looks like very constrictive fairway lines, the course looks very good because the terrain seems stellar. That said, just from one photo only, the Scioto fairway line looks to negate the natural flow of the hill and not connect to the trees in any way. If trees are the texture then they must be used as such while leaving plenty of room to incorporate angles.
Happy Hockey
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*
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Sean- I've never considered trees in the context of textures. I'll have to give it some additional thought, but, my initial reaction is that they block more textures than they create. In the context of Peter's comment from the one photo, the trees seem out of place on that section of the site, forced into being by someone wanting to break up the visual and/or scale. But again, that's my opinion from seeing one photo. Since they appear to be inconsequential to the task, I'd let it slide as a mistake, unless it was repeated, too often. There's no question that ground has quirk and character. The question is did the artist utilize it effectively, and/or optimally? And, is it being presented in accordance with it's design features.
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Adam
Yes, on hilly sites trees can block the views of the terrain and thus texture. I am not a fan of greenwall lined fairways, however, trees aren't inherently bad. I object to seeing large swaths of rough between trees and fairways. It seems like a scam to me... a way to negate the importance of the trees. I would much rather see the trees thinned out...leaving the pretty specimens and have fairways flow into the trees...leaving a chance of recovery, but in the lap of the gods. Its almost worse to leave treelined fairways intact and try to minimize their (hopeful) beauty and impact on play by the use of rough.
Happy Hockey
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Fellows,
In the case of Moraine, two things to note;
First, I looked at a 1950s aerial and there were very few trees on the site at the time and Ran's review discusses the removal of many non indigenous and other non-specimen trees.
There are still any number of lovely specimen trees out there.
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Moraine Country Club - Dayton, OH
Alex "Nipper" Campbell 1930, Dick Wilson 1955, Keith Foster 2007-2016
Doak Scale Score - 8
Moraine is an exquisite golf course on exceptional golf land. Named for the glacial features that shaped this property, the course heaves and rolls and twists along the terrain and Alex Campbell lovingly used the natural features brilliantly.
After a decade of restoration work by Keith Foster, accompanied by considerable removal of trees, the course once again shines by letting the land do it's thing. My only knock on the Foster re-do is I feel he loses some of the micro-contours of the greens themselves, ending in longer broad slopes. I have the same criticism of his work at Philly Cricket in my neighborhood. I suspect this is a combination of an unintended, unavoidable consequence of moving from older, push-up greens to USGA spec greens, and some desire by the club to soften slopes to accommodate faster green speeds. Either way, I find it regrettable.
The least interesting portion of the course is not surprisingly also the lowest elevation point of the property coming at holes 10-11-12, which all occupy flattish ground intersected by a creek, the only water hazard on the property. Yet, viewed objectively, each is a very good and testing golf hole, even without the heaving and wild earth-forms that so many of the holes occupy that takes them from sound conceptual golf design to brilliant real world play-ability.
Mike; I, too, really liked Moraine, it had that full aura about it that just feels special.
Yes, the three flat holes 10 – 12 were a bit plain compared to all the rest, but even the greens on those holes were very interesting. The crazy nob on the right side of the 10th green was really a challenge.
For those who don’t know, this course is an out and back affair on both nines that climb a long slope with various nobs along the way. The three holes just noted are the exception to the out and back.
Climbing the slope you could see that substantial trees would really have the effect of diminishing wind that can really wip on that long somewhat narrow property. My host told me the club started a fund to plant trees in the past (60s and 70s??) and had surrounded the holes in corridors. You know how they grow over bunkers, cut doglegs and generally corrupt the architecture over time. Most old golf courses were built on fields or meadows and had few if any trees when designed.
Your comment about micro-contours is spot on although maybe not as pronounced as some courses that had undergone extensive restorations. I really like Micro undulations, those naturally occurring features on old course, mostly caused by drainage that add a ton of interest to the playing surface especially fairways. We actually have quite of bit of this at Springdale especially on 10,12,14,15 etc. I was fortunate to play a well known course this year that just finished a major restoration project - which was wonderful and the only criticism I could identify was that the fairways seemed to be sanitized due to the grading that removed micro undulations.
Someday I will actually start a thread on this topic.
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Moraine has an appropriate amount of trees. The issue with photographing a site like Moraine is that the stark nature of the green sites draw the eye away from the sweeping vistas you get a better of sense of in situ. A photograph, for better AND worse, is designed to focus or draw your eye to one spot and as golfers we naturally will be pulled toward the flag.
If your heart isn't pumping by the time you get to the 4th at Moraine - quit the game.
Mike, please please please tell me you played Miami Valley. I don't remember if you did on this trip.
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Kyle,
No Miami Valley sadly.
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Edgewood Country Club - Drums, PA
David Gordon 1980
Doak Scale Score - 2.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153261883_a02143b116_z.jpg)
The approach to the dogleg left 17th requires a significant water carry for the last 160 yards.
Exhibit #1 proving that adage that sometimes you can't go home again.
As I've gotten into my 60s, I'm finding some nostalgic joy in going back to play golf courses I played in my youth that I haven't been to in decades. Never quite sure what to expect, one hopes to find a sense of rediscovery of something contiguous connecting youth and mature years, perhaps.
In the case of Edgewood, which was called more lyrically "Edgewood in the Pines Golf Club" when it first opened around the time I was graduating college, it was a place I played often with my dad in my early 20s, and as the newest professionally designed, very affordable public course it was a pretty classy operation with nice restaurant and banquet facilities, an excellent pro, and a course that provided lovely conditions and quite a few holes of interest.
Time has not been kind over the past forty years. Ownership has changed and those multiple rows of small white pines planted to provide definition between fairways have become just tall walls of impenetrable nastiness over the past 40 years. Tree growth overall seems a problem as lines of play are constricted. Maintenance seems to be running on a shoestring budget and although I'm not a fan of lush maintenance it's tough to argue here that the eroded conditions don't negatively affect general playability.
Hopefully, management can sort out those problems and continue to make a go of it because the course is a decent routing with some good holes in a lovely valley setting, perhaps a bit too reliant on water as a hazard but not overbearing in that regard.
But right now it just serves as a cautionary tale of what not to do when planting trees because the darn things do grow and compete for the same sunlight, water, and nutrients as the turfgrass.
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Columbia Country Club - Chevy Chase, MD
Herbert Barker/Donald Ross 1911, Walter Travis/William Connellan/Walter Harban 1915, William Travis/William Flynn 1921, William Flynn 1923, George & Tom Fazio 1975, Tom Clark 1999, Bob Walton 2007, Joel Weiman 2018
Doak Scale Score - 5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153263783_e4a1813a9c_b.jpg)
It's difficult to imagine today that the par three 16th originally featured a green much like the 12th at Garden City, only with a diagonal water carry, sort of approximating 12 at ANGC.
Somewhat shoehorned into a sprawling DC suburb, and separated by a rail line, it's tough to argue that the original architects didn't make the most of the property. With an elegant routing that proceeds clockwise along the boundary of the property on the front nine, and a back nine that switches back and forth across a long ravine before finally somehow squeezing in the last four holes into a tiny triangle of land, it's a great use of land economy.
There are any number of very good golf holes, as well. Both the 7th and 9th are stern par fours with surprising complexity, followed by two more solid fours at 10 & 11. All par threes are well conceived, as well.
However, the two par fives are inscrutable. The 5th hole, where evidently Bobby Jones made a big number when the hole featured a difficult cross bunker has been turned into a semi-featureless par five with trees down the right and OB tight left. The 12th is just odd to play with very few valid choices.
The most controversial hole is the 17th, a very short par four with a green up on a plateau, begging for the long-ball player to have a go at it. For most of us, it's an iron over a pond into a low-lying valley, and then a steep pitch uphill to the green. From my perspective, it doesn't matter much if it works or not as there is no room to do much else but I have to admit a fondness for its quirkiness.
However, my biggest knock on Columbia is that I'm betting it was pretty special in its time and a host of architects and internal changes over the years have taken out most of that uniqueness through green flattening, bunker removal and reshaping into visually unappealing ovals, and overdone pine tree planting. As such, for as intimate as the routing can be the golf course at times feels wildly disconnected as if designed by committee, and the presentation of some very good golf holes is not nearly what it could or should be.
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More photos from that day at CCC:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Columbia/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Columbia/index.html)
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Twin Willows Par 3 Golf Course - Lincoln Park, NJ
Nicholas Psiahas 1962
Doak Scale Score - 2
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153765241_64aaf275d4_b.jpg)
The 100 yard 2nd hole at Twin Willows requires a carry over a brackish pond.
A ten (10) hole par three course with holes ranging from 80 yards to the 180 yard finisher, Twin Willows is slightly different (re: better) than most par three course fare. Two things set it apart - smallish greens that have significant slope and contour and some rugged forced carry bunkers fronting a few of the greens.
Really just a nice place to introduce folks to the game or sharpen your wedge play in a park-like setting. What's wrong with that?
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Rock Spring Golf Club - West Orange, NJ
Seth Raynor/Charles Banks 1926, Hal Purdy 1965, Ken Dye 2001, Kelly Blake Moran 2008
Doak Scale Score - 5.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153972927_04dbf63f49_b.jpg)
The "Steep & Deep" Raynor look as built by Charles Banks after his death is definitely on display at Rock Spring, as seen on the approach to the par four 15th.
Set on a high bluff with a view of Manhattan from the clubhouse, Rock Spring sprung from a Seth Raynor design that was constructed by Charles Banks after the former's untimely death. A private club until recently, the club's demise is the public golfer's gain, at least in the near term. No one is quite sure what the future will hold but for the moment the course is owned by the township and managed by Kemper Sports.
During the transition, the club took a financial hit and promising restoration that had begun under Kelly Blake Moran in 2008 was halted. Attention to details and maintenance seem to have been affected and is only now beginning to reemerge.
Those efforts are clearly worth it as the course even having weathered the latest storm is a architectural gem. Unusual in having only 3 par threes (all very good with a difficult Redan 3rd, a cutesy Short 6th, and a lovely downhill Eden 16th) and two par fives, the strength of Rock Spring comes from an excellent variety of par fours strung throughout. With some loving attention, the course could really shine as nearly every green has lost space over the years, some tree management is needed (particularly on holes like the 2nd where some pruning on the right would invite a more aggressive tee shot), and probably some drainage infrastructure work could accomplish a lot.
The variety of green types is also enjoyable and exciting to see, from the double plateau of the 4th to the short, Alps-like par four 10th (really one of my favorite holes all year), to whatever is going on at the 17th green, it's a course of continual interest and challenge.
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Coming Next;
Honesdale
Sunningdale (NY)
Manasquan River
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More photos from that day at Rock Spring:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/RockSpring/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/RockSpring/index.html)
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Honesdale Golf Club - Honesdale, PA
Augustus Porter Thompson (w Robert D. Pryde?) - 1900, Michael Hurdzan 1990
Doak Scale Rating - 3.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153974912_a9c600c1e8_b.jpg)
Despite the obvious overplanting of trees, the terrain is still the star at Honesdale.
Augustus Porter Thompson attended Yale University, graduating in 1896. During his matriculation, he played on the newly formed golf team on the original New Haven Golf Club which was designed by the professional (and Yale golf coach) Robert D. Pryde. Pryde went on to design any number of early courses in Connecticut and nearby states including Pennsylvania.
It must have felt a bit like purgatory to Thompson when he returned home to his father's business in Honesdale, PA as the nearest golf course at the Country Club of Scranton was 30 miles away. Within a few years, Thompson and some friends leased land on "Beers Hill" on the outskirts of town and by 1900 formed a golf club. The club thrived and by 1905 bought the property outright. Whether Robert Pryde was involved in the design is pure speculation on my part, but given that he designed Montrose CC not far away around the same time it seems plausible that Thompson would have asked his coach for help.
In any case, the course is a charming nine-holer with several holes no one would build today. The third is a blind, downhill 270 yard par four to a shallow green tucked behind bunkers with death behind. The short par three 7th is uphill and completely blind to a green tucked in a little dell. The greens overall are small targets and other than overplanting of trees in the 50s and 60s and some bunkers added later by Michael Hurdzan the course hasn't changed much over the past century.
To this day Honesdale is still known as the home of formers Masters champion Art Wall, who had over 40 hole in ones during his illustrious career, benefiting somewhat by the three par threes at his hometown club.
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Why does anyone install fairway bunkers like those in the last photo?
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Columbia Country Club - Chevy Chase, MD
Herbert Barker/Donald Ross 1911, Walter Travis/William Connellan/Walter Harban 1915, William Travis/William Flynn 1921, William Flynn 1923, George & Tom Fazio 1975, Tom Clark 1999, Bob Walton 2007, Joel Weiman 2018
However, my biggest knock on Columbia is that I'm betting it was pretty special in its time and a host of architects and internal changes over the years have taken out most of that uniqueness through green flattening, bunker removal and reshaping into visually unappealing ovals, and overdone pine tree planting. As such, for as intimate as the routing can be the golf course at times feels wildly disconnected as if designed by committee, and the presentation of some very good golf holes is not nearly what it could or should be.
Where was this example when I was arguing with Mark Fine about whether every course could be improved? Columbia is a great example of "death by a thousand cuts". I can't believe how awful the 16th hole looks now - it has taken three or four separate steps back from the original, each of them worse than the last!
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Why does anyone install fairway bunkers like those in the last photo?
Tom,
Evidently they are there in case your drive somehow manages to avoid the trees (and hard OB left).
Apparently the few lucky folks who actually manage to hit that fairway have a reunion on the spot each year.
***EDIT*** - From old aerials, the bunker on the left was there prior to 1990, presumably to protect balls from heading across the road OB. The right one was added around 1990.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49284960677_1d9b7300d7_b.jpg)
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Honesdale Golf Club - Honesdale, PA
Augustus Porter Thompson (w Robert D. Pryde?) - 1900, Michael Hurdzan 1990
More photos of Honesdale from an August 2019 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Honesdale/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Honesdale/index.html)
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Sunningdale Country Club - Scarsdale, NY
Carl A.W. Fox 1913, Seth Raynor/C.B. Macdonald 1918, Walter Travis 1920, Robert White 1922, A.W. Tillinghast 1929, Stephen Kay 1999, Mike DeVries 2016
Doak Scale Rating - 6.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153997467_9eaaa7b042_b.jpg)
Width, strategy, and playability are the hallmarks of the newly restored Sunningdale.
It's tough to make a mark in golf-rich Westchester County but recent work by architect Mike DeVries (with Joe Hancock) has brought a new shine and luster to an old, somewhat dated course besot with many of the ailments of classic courses throughout the northeast; over-planting of trees, loss of fairway widths, green shrinkage, bunker revisions, and a host of green chairmen looking to leave a legacy.
Blessed with some terrific landforms and an engaging routing (but always with a disappointing finish), Sunningdale has some great golf holes now brought back to life through the re-introduction of fairway widths and a maintenance meld that permits the ground game. The short par four 5th is reminiscent of the nearby 15th at Fenway, only with more strategic options. the 15th is a great long par four with a sharply tilted left to right blind approach, and the 7th a wonderful par five with a roller-coaster wild ride of a green.
The course used to end with a rather mundane short par four, a downhill redan over a pond, and a very awkward 80-degree dogleg left uphill par five. That's been changed recently as tree removal discovered a rocky ledge for a good par three 17th allowing the 18th to be turned into a straightaway long par four finisher, a much better hole than it's predecessor. These changes necessitated turning the 16th into a par five over a ravine and it's a hole that probably needs some more thinking as I'm not sure it works that well given the complicated landforms that are navigated along it's length.
All in all, though, a very satisfying restoration has been accomplished and Sunningdale now stands as a great example of bringing classic principles back to a vintage course that had lost them over the years.
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Sunningdale Country Club - Scarsdale, NY
Carl A.W. Fox 1913, Seth Raynor/C.B. Macdonald 1918, Walter Travis 1920, Robert White 1922, A.W. Tillinghast 1929, Stephen Kay 1999, Mike DeVries 2016
Photos of Sunningdale CC from a handful of years ago:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Sunningdale/index.html
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Honesdale Golf Club - Honesdale, PA
Augustus Porter Thompson (w Robert D. Pryde?) - 1900, Michael Hurdzan 1990
More photos of Honesdale from an August 2019 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Honesdale/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Honesdale/index.html)
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Honesdale/mediafiles/l21.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Honesdale/mediafiles/l21.jpg)
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Honesdale/mediafiles/l23.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Honesdale/mediafiles/l23.jpg)
From Honesdale's 4th....does this qualify as "over-the-top"? I don't recall too many "sentinel" boulders guarding a green on a par 3. With OB hard left, this feature must create quite a few unpleasant rubs-of-the-green for what would otherwise be relatively decent shots.
Short/right is the classic "miss" for the right-handed high-handicapper.
I guess a bonus is you get to see your ball in the air for a little longer when you land one on this hazard. :P
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David Harshbarger,
Yes, over the top but at only 138 yards it certainly discourages the bailout right. ;)
Makes me wonder if any of Art Wall's hole in ones came on a carom? ;D
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That explains where Art (pictured below) learned to play this carom shot when he visited TOC
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKd5sxIXkAkVMlW.jpg)
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Manasquan River Golf Club - Brielle, NJ
Robert White 1923,1926, Ron Prichard 2012, Andrew Green 2018
Doak Scale Score - 8
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153796236_baf89cf816_b.jpg)
A round at Manasquan River is filled with one surprising delight after another as seen here on the semi-blind, rumply fairway of the uphill par four 10th.
Easily the most unexpected "hidden gem" course I played in 2019, Manasquan River is superb.
The front nine is draped across a gorgeous stretch of hilly terrain that is exceptionally unusual for southern New Jersey, and features one delightful hole after another. After a clever dogleg "gentle handshake" of the first hole, the course turns up the volume to 11 with the amazing 2nd hole, a stunning par four with a green set high above the surrounding terrain. And so it goes throughout the round. Each time we thought it couldn't get any better we'd discover the next hole was just as good. I kept looking at my playing partner wondering if he was equally impressed and discovered he was pinching himself in amazement, as well.
The back nine moves onto flatter land after the 11th but closer to the water and open to the elements. The course is less than a mile from the Atlantic Ocean and as you progress through your round the smell of salt is in the air. A clever stretch of holes somewhat reminiscent of the peninsula holes at Inwood ensues and reaches a crescendo with the lovely par three 15th with its low-profile green tilted precariously towards the water and the wild 16th, where an excellent drive is required to have a realistic approach to a green set out on a lonely point at the water's edge. After turning inland on the long par four 17th, the course features a short (333 yards) par four 18th finishing in front of the clubhouse, similar to some other great courses where the final hole is eminently birdie-able.
The greens throughout are thoughtfully varied and consistently interesting. Andrew Green recently completed a restoration to this Robert White classic and I have no idea if it's always been this good. Certainly it has escaped notice of those compiling "best of state" lists, but I can think of few more compelling and enjoyable places to play in the mid-Atlantic region.
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Scranton Municipal Golf Course - Mount Cobb, PA
James Gilmore Harrison/Fred Garbin 1958
Doak Scale Score Rating - 3
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49154005867_55f2c7f47b_b.jpg)
The long, uphill par four 16th at Scranton Muni is the start of a tough three hole finishing stretch that includes only a single sand bunker.
From the "maybe you can go home again" category, I visited another course I used to play often in my teens and early 20s and was delighted to find the course in the best condition I'd ever seen it and it seemed to be thriving. Designed for the city some 60 odd years ago by Ross disciple Harrison and his son-in-law Fred Garbin, a lot of greenside bunkers were built but most were never filled with sand. Today there are a total of 15 sand bunkers, which is about 5 more than what I played back in the day, but interestingly for better players the greenside rough grass bunkers are probably more difficult.
It's never been an architectural wonder but the course does have a nice pacing and balance and several opportunities to score before ratcheting up the challenge in the finishing stretch with two lengthy par fours and a 220 yard par three. The terrain is generally rolling farmland but each nine does get back in the woods for a stretch.
The most revealing item I discovered during my re-visit almost 40 years later is how exactly technology has affected the game over that time. I found myself driving the ball to places as a 61-year old that I couldn't sniff in my youth, sometimes by 30 or more yards. Oddly, that made some of the holes such as the par five 4th that narrows in the last 100 yards more strategically interesting, where it had been a definite three shot hole in my youth.
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Manasquan River Golf Club - Brielle, NJ
Robert White 1923,1926, Ron Prichard 2012, Andrew Green 2018
Doak Scale Score - 8
I was looking forward to your report on this, as I have never heard one before.
Glad to hear you are so enthusiastic. However, you may need a refresher course on the upper reaches of The Doak Scale. Seeing a lot of 2's and 3's could do that to a guy.
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I was looking forward to your report on this, as I have never heard one before.
Glad to hear you are so enthusiastic. However, you may need a refresher course on the upper reaches of The Doak Scale. Seeing a lot of 2's and 3's could do that to a guy.
Tom,
I was looking forward to your response to my report, as I knew it would raise eyebrows. ;D
Let's see...
8 - One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places and none in others), and worth a special trip to see. Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout.
Yeah, I'll stand by that. It's really, really good. It's in my top 5 in the state of NJ...scratch that...top 3.
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Rip Van Winkle Country Club - Palenville, NY
Donald Ross 1920
Doak Scale Rating - 3.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153306288_8a670f48ff_b.jpg)
The lovely valley setting adds to the overall appeal of this low-key nine hole Donald Ross course.
Set in a serene valley in the Catskill Mountains, the aptly named Rip Van Winkle course is a little sleeper. The modest clubhouse and gravel parking lot fits the scene perfectly and it's a place to just sling your clubs over your shoulder and go for a nice walk.
The terrain of the course is mostly flat, and the interest lies in some of the smallest Donald Ross greens I've seen (yes, they have lost greenspace but even so they were never large to begin with based on the pads) that require accurate approaching. Most peculiar as a hazard is a large grassy mound popping up in the fairway on the short par four 2nd hole, but it provides a vintage novel appeal nonetheless.
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After tomorrow's year ending round at Cape Fear Country Club, only 18 more reviews to go. :P
Next Up:
Dorset Field Club
Palmer House
Ekwanok
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Mike,
Very entertaining! Love this kind of "Frank Commentary and Discussion".
Don't flag now with only 18 to go!
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Rip Van Winkle Country Club - Palenville, NY
Donald Ross 1920
Doak Scale Rating - 3.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153306288_8a670f48ff_b.jpg)
The lovely valley setting adds to the overall appeal of this low-key nine hole Donald Ross course.
Set in a serene valley in the Catskill Mountains, the aptly named Rip Van Winkle course is a little sleeper. The modest clubhouse and gravel parking lot fits the scene perfectly and it's a place to just sling your clubs over your shoulder and go for a nice walk.
The terrain of the course is mostly flat, and the interest lies in some of the smallest Donald Ross greens I've seen (yes, they have lost greenspace but even so they were never large to begin with based on the pads) that require accurate approaching. Most peculiar as a hazard is a large grassy mound popping up in the fairway on the short par four 2nd hole, but it provides a vintage novel appeal nonetheless.
This course is *exactly* why you keep your clubs in the trunk of your car. A short modest detour off the NYS Thruway, coming or going, well worth turning into the driveway for. And, as it's a favorite of Jim Kennedy, too, you know it's worth a stop.
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I was looking forward to your report on this, as I have never heard one before.
Glad to hear you are so enthusiastic. However, you may need a refresher course on the upper reaches of The Doak Scale. Seeing a lot of 2's and 3's could do that to a guy.
Tom,
I was looking forward to your response to my report, as I knew it would raise eyebrows. ;D
Let's see...
8 - One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places and none in others), and worth a special trip to see. Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout.
Yeah, I'll stand by that. It's really, really good. It's in my top 5 in the state of NJ...scratch that...top 3.
Mike speaks the truth! MR is so good and a true hidden gem if such a thing exists these days.
More photos of this gem here:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/ManasquanRiver/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/ManasquanRiver/index.html)
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Rip Van Winkle Country Club - Palenville, NY
Donald Ross 1920
Doak Scale Rating - 3.5
More photos of a course that had me wide awake:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/RipVanWinkle/index.html
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Manasquan at 8.0, top 3 in New Jersey
WHOA DADDY !!!
Plusses:
Wonderful terrain from #2 through #11 several nice putting surfaces
Nice balance of fun and challenge; varied lies
Wind complicates distance control
Two, Seven and Sixteen are great holes
Minuses:
Numerous parallel holes
One and 18 are not compelling short par fours in any sense
Only three one shotters
Flipping the nines would allow the course to build in interest.
I earlier rated it 6.0 but now with Andrew Green's excellent work 6.4
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Manasquan at 8.0, top 3 in New Jersey
WHOA DADDY !!!
Plusses:
Wonderful terrain from #2 through #11 several nice putting surfaces
Nice balance of fun and challenge; varied lies
Wind complicates distance control
Two, Seven and Sixteen are great holes
Minuses:
Numerous parallel holes
One and 18 are not compelling short par fours in any sense
Only three one shotters
Flipping the nines would allow the course to build in interest.
I earlier rated it 6.0 but now with Andrew Green's excellent work 6.4
Having grown up next door to MRGC, it's the course I know most intimately. I agree wholeheartedly with Mark's "minuses." Before the redesign of 16, the river side holes lacked any real interest save 15 which used to have a rougher (and tighter, long and right) character. 18 is what it is-a short, straightforward par four that has been tinkered with over the years. The preferred angle from the right side is much more undulating than the boundary along the left.
I don't believe there is a single green on the river side (12-17) that is the equal of any on the "hill" side.I too have always wished the nines were reversed.Maybe paradoxically, I never found the wind as impactful on the much more open river side as on the hillier front portion.
P.S. #2 may be the single greatest sledding hole on the east coast. Starting near the green, one had to manage the fairway slope in order to propel your yankee flyer through the trees and onto Rankin Pond.
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More photos of a course that had me wide awake:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/RipVanWinkle/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/RipVanWinkle/index.html)
Didn't want this to go unnoticed. Hope all is well JB.
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Good to see some frank discussion and debate.
I'll wait for a few others to weigh in before responding.
By the way, my top 3 in NJ are now PV, SH, and MR. The latter bumped Plainfield and I'll be happy to share my reasoning.
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Thanks for your post Mike,
For me Manasquan River is not comparable to any of these stellar New Jersey golf courses
Somerset Hills 8.0
Hollywood 7.0
Hidden Creek 7.0
Ridgewood 6.8
Forsgate
Baltusrol Upper
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Mark Chalfant,
Thanks for the feedback. More to come tomorrow but what score would you give Forsgate (Banks)?
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Manasquan River Golf Club - Brielle, NJ
Robert White 1923,1926, Ron Prichard 2012, Andrew Green 2018
Doak Scale Score - 8
Mike:I was keen to see your rating on Manasquan River. Even though I have not played here in many years, I had written a post on one of Tom Doaks threads a few years ago that I thought this was the single most under-rated course in NJ for many reasons. Your score would support that contention. Gotta get back there soon. Thanks, again for the effort of posting all these interesting comments.
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Just to update my first post, my year end totals are as follows;
58 total rounds
49 18-hole rounds
8 9-hole rounds
42 18-hole courses
8 9-hole courses
29 Courses Played for the First Time
21 Course Replays, with a few multiple times
1,130 Total Courses Played thru 2019
96 (at last count) No Longer Exist
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Bill Crane,
Yes, I recall you mentioning Manasquan River a few years back as well as Ron Prichard, which piqued my interest. But it was way back in 1982 when I received the coffee table book "100 Greatest Courses and Then Some" by William H. Davis and the editors of Golf Digest.
In that book was a section towards the end titled the "Frank Cox Gazetteer" which chronicled some of the golf course musings of a fellow who traveled the world playing courses and under the heading of "Little Known Gems In the United States" was the following;
Manasquan River Golf Club, Brielle, NJ - One of the most scenic courses on the Eastern seaboard. From its high hills there are sweeping panoramas of both the Atlantic Ocean and the inland waterways with their heavy shipping parades, and some unusual golf holes....
Mark Chalfant,
I'll stand by my assessment and seem to recall Tom Doak at one point saying that if we're a point or so different (me at 8 and you at 6.4) then we're probably going to have a good discussion and maybe objective reality is somewhere in the middle. I'd include a few others in the great hole discussion, most notably all the 3 par threes (3, 6, and 15), and throw in numbers 9 and 10 as well. Hope we can discuss in person in the coming year.
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Dorset Field Club - Dorset, VT
Arvin Harrington/Fred Holley/Bill Kent 1886, Arvin Harrington 1896, Steve Durkee 1999
Doak Scale Score - 4
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153808511_b00a7d98ab_b.jpg)
The oldest nine holes on the property are draped elegantly on the land as seen here with the parallel par three 2nd hole (looking back towards the tee) and par three 8th hole (green behind bunker) to a ridgetop green set perilously close to the quaint little town.
Dorset Field Club claims to be the oldest golf course continually played in the United States, dating back to 1886. I had hoped to find proof of that but it's largely based on one anecdotal account and then the original got lost during copying and the story gets a little complicated. What we do know for certain is that there had to be enough golf activity and membership for a new clubhouse to be built specifically for the purpose by 1896, so it's a very old golf course in any case.
The original nine holes were all what I'd hoped to find. Quaint, no little earthmoving, draped on the lovely rolling land in unusual and interesting ways that perhaps no one would dare design today and while some may quibble the greens may be too small or too tilted I found them delightful.
The problem is that the club at some point round the turn of 20th century decided they needed a real 18 hole golf course and built a new nine holes. I'm not sure why because the land seemed lovely without much effort but those holes required tons of earth-moving to shape into place and seemingly without adding much merit to the holes themselves. It would probably not matter so much if you could still play the original nine but the new holes are interspersed with each nine such that they are jarringly incongruous.
The club itself seems to have recognized that problem, thankfully, and are now embarking on a project to make the course more cohesive. I'm hopeful we'll be hearing some positive reports about that in the near future. As we played it, the old holes would be a 5 or even 6, but the new ones maybe 2, if not 0.
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Mike,
Thanks for all your efforts on putting this thread together. I’ve enjoyed reading along.
Due to my involvement in Sunningdale CC, I’d love to hear or read a detailed analysis of your thoughts on the course, not to defend, but to learn.
If it’s better to do so, feel free to email, call or PM on here.
Thanks, and Happy New Year!
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Joe Hancock,
Happy New Year to you and yours, as well! Will do as you suggest, thanks.
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Dorset Field Club - Dorset, VT
Arvin Harrington/Fred Holley/Bill Kent 1886, Arvin Harrington 1896, Steve Durkee 1999
More photos of the Dorset Field Club:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/DorsetFieldClub/index.html
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Palmer House Resort Golf Course - Manchester, VT
Wendall Cram/Hans Palmer 1982
Doak Scale Score - 1.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49122306888_7ce0538193_b.jpg)
The domed greens at Palmer House are the smallest I've ever seen, and are incredibly elusive targets even at short distances.
Joe Bausch and I had a few hours to kill before the Travis Society meeting at Ekwanok and Joe being as crazy as I am figured we could sneak in a round. Neighboring Equinox doesn't open early on Mondays and although we drove out to Manchester CC we didn't have an invite and we were about to give up and get some breakfast.
However, Joe is not known as resourceful researcher extraordinaire "Indiana Joe(nes) for nothing. Checking his search engine one more time, Joe spotted a lone flag or two in a what seemed to be the lawn of a cottage resort, and sure enough, Palmer House was discovered. It turns out that the course was built in the early 1980s by Vermont ski legend Wendell Cram (google him) for/with his friend Hans Palmer who owned the resort and it became a little labor of love.
We nervously took a few pictures. At first I thought the small domed greens to be artificial turf, or something you'd buy to perhaps play some form of mini golf within your house, but indeed, they were shaggy real grass. We found the lobby and asked if we could play the golf course. I think the manager assumed we were guests because there was no charge, and really no scorecard (Joe later created one that we sent to the course for future use).
So off we went for 585 yards of pure pitching pleasure. There were a few bunkers, a few greens set uncomfortably close to roads, buildings, cars, and pedestrians, and the tiny greens were incredibly difficult to hit and hold (I was very proud of my one GIR). My favorite may have been the 6th playing over the septic tank.
I couldn't get the smile off my face the entire round.
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Palmer House Resort Golf Course - Manchester, VT
Wendall Cram/Hans Palmer 1982
I'm confident only two people in the whole wide-world have played Palmer House and Ekwanok on the same day. ;)
More photos of Palmer House (thanks to Matt Frey for creating the scorecard; BTW, I want to meet the fellow that holds the course record of 25 at PH, as I don't think either of us broke 40!):
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PalmerHouse/index.html
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Ekwanok Country Club - Manchester, VT
Walter Travis/John Duncan Dunn 1900-1914, Andrew Christie 1928, Donald Ross 1947, Robert Trent Jones 1956, Geoffrey Cornish 1959-1972, George Fazio 1982, Tom Doak/Bruce Hepner 2000
Doak Scale Score - 7
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153811706_17e570fbff_b.jpg)
There are few places for a game more charming than the gorgeous setting of Ekwanok.
It is difficult to divorce Ekwanok as a golf course from either it's glorious setting in a valley between the unspoiled Green Mountains of Vermont, or from it's eminent place in the history of the game in the United States. The entire club just exudes old-world charm in a way that lacks pretense but upholds class and traditions. Indeed, the clubhouse itself is a virtual museum of American Golf history and the membership is extremely proud of their heritage.
The course unfolds just outside with the first three holes and the last three holes running east and west with an intersecting creek. While each of those holes are good in their own right, it's when one gets to the more interesting land at the foothills of the Green Mountains in the distance that the course becomes special. The par five 7th where the second shot needs to be squeezed between natural knobs playing steeply uphill is exhilarating, while the short par four 8th is delightfully puzzling. Another stretch of gems is the 12th, playing up and over a steep rise to a green set tantalizingly in the valley below, while the downhill par three 13th almost begs for a running left to right approach followed by 14 playing over an old sandpit where one needs the challenge the nest of bunkers down the right side for a preferred angle to a tiny green.
The presentation of the course is spectacular, as a tree management program and help from Renaissance Golf have really brought the course to a high degree of fine tuning in recent decades.
Somewhat incredibly, much like Oakmont the general routing of the golf course is basically unchanged over the past 120 years. But I also had the feeling that something has been lost over time, and indeed learned that at least five of the greens have been significantly altered (re: tamed, neutered) during the 1960s and sadly that ship has probably sailed.
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Coming next;
Pine Valley
Sewanee
Black Creek
Sweetens Cove
Lookout Mountain
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Mike -
I really do defer to your much greater playing experience and insight; it would be foolish of me not to. But Joe H's request re Sunningdale reminded me that, while reading your review of that course, I thought of the one possible drawback of that very experience/insight, i.e. that in knowing more and bringing more to the table, you might 'miss' what a neophyte sees clearly. You think (because you are able to think) in terms of, say, the 'quality of the restoration' or the 'course as it once was' or the 'fate that befalls many classic courses because of misguided Chairs' or 'the stiff competition for a course like Sunningdale in the region'. I couldn't meaningfully think in any of those ways -- and so just might be freer than you are to see/experience that course simply 'as it is - right now'. Isn't that the most important thing? The only important thing? I'm on record as not liking the 'best renovation' category in the golf magazines' yearly lists. It's not only because I don't understand how most panelists/raters can make such nuanced assessments; it's also because I can't understand why it matters. The renovated course exists 'as it is' as much as and in much the same way as a brand new course. The 'history' and 'quality of past renovations' etc are all interesting subjects for discussion, on here at gca.com. But if an average golfer like me showed up to play a course like Sunningdale for the first time, I'd *experience* that golf course in precisely the same way as I would one built in 2018. Why would any other 'information' be important to me? Why *should* it be important to me?
Anyway - an aside, as per usual. Enjoying this.
best
P
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Ekwanok Country Club - Manchester, VT
Walter Travis/John Duncan Dunn 1900-1914, Andrew Christie 1928, Donald Ross 1947, Robert Trent Jones 1956, Geoffrey Cornish 1959-1972, George Fazio 1982, Tom Doak/Bruce Hepner 2000
What he said. Grin.
More photos of Ekwanok here (what a wonderful day it was!):
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Ekwanok/index.html
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Mike -
I really do defer to your much greater playing experience and insight; it would be foolish of me not to. But Joe H's request re Sunningdale reminded me that, while reading your review of that course, I thought of the one possible drawback of that very experience/insight, i.e. that in knowing more and bringing more to the table, you might 'miss' what a neophyte sees clearly. You think (because you are able to think) in terms of, say, the 'quality of the restoration' or the 'course as it once was' or the 'fate that befalls many classic courses because of misguided Chairs' or 'the stiff competition for a course like Sunningdale in the region'. I couldn't meaningfully think in any of those ways -- and so just might be freer than you are to see/experience that course simply 'as it is - right now'. Isn't that the most important thing? The only important thing? I'm on record as not liking the 'best renovation' category in the golf magazines' yearly lists. It's not only because I don't understand how must panelists/raters can make such nuanced assessments; it's also because I can't understand why it matters. The renovated course exists 'as it is' as much as and in much the same way as a brand new course. The 'history' and 'quality of past renovations' etc are all interesting subjects for discussion, on here at gca.com. But if an average golfer like me showed up to play a course like Sunningdale for the first time, I'd *experience* that golf course in precisely the same way as I would one built in 2018. Why would any other 'information' be important to me? Why *should* it be important to me?
Anyway - an aside, as per usual. Enjoying this.
best
P
Peter,
That's a very wise observation, and I agree that it could be a pitfall of being a golf historical nerd like I admittedly am.
I generally try to learn as much as possible about a course i've played or am about to play so I can understand what I'm seeing from that aspect, as well, but agree that to most observers all that is germane is the course they are playing on that day "as it is" is all that matters, and really should be all that matters.
The problem is that once I learn something about the evolution of a golf course i can't un-learn it but that cuts both ways. In other words, I'll look at old aerials and see that the original course may have been generally tree-less but then see straight rows of trees planted in the 1950s and 60s, growing larger and taking up more of the golf course space, as in the case of Honesdale, for instance. So when I see much the same practice over the decades at Sunningdale, only to see steps taken to recover what once was I generally point those things out in a favorable way because those changes for better or worse do indeed affect that golf course that one plays today.
Whether it's the pool at Berkshire turning the original par five 17th into a nothing-burger of a short par four, short par four finish, or the driving range at St. Davids creating an awkward finish, I think I mention these things to explain what one would experience today in a way that someone like you playing for the first time might instinctively feel something amiss but would read this and then say to yourself, "ahhh...so that's what happened!"
Glad you're enjoying. Happy New Year to you and yours!
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Dorset Field Club - Dorset, VT
Arvin Harrington/Fred Holley/Bill Kent 1886, Arvin Harrington 1896, Steve Durkee 1999
Doak Scale Score - 4
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153808511_b00a7d98ab_b.jpg)
The oldest nine holes on the property are draped elegantly on the land as seen here with the parallel par three 2nd hole (looking back towards the tee) and par three 8th hole (green behind bunker) to a ridgetop green set perilously close to the quaint little town.
Dorset Field Club claims to be the oldest golf course continually played in the United States, dating back to 1886. I had hoped to find proof of that but it's largely based on one anecdotal account and then the original got lost during copying and the story gets a little complicated. What we do know for certain is that there had to be enough golf activity and membership for a new clubhouse to be built specifically for the purpose by 1896, so it's a very old golf course in any case.
The original nine holes were all what I'd hoped to find. Quaint, no little earthmoving, draped on the lovely rolling land in unusual and interesting ways that perhaps no one would dare design today and while some may quibble the greens may be too small or too tilted I found them delightful.
The problem is that the club at some point round the turn of 20th century decided they needed a real 18 hole golf course and built a new nine holes. I'm not sure why because the land seemed lovely without much effort but those holes required tons of earth-moving to shape into place and seemingly without adding much merit to the holes themselves. It would probably not matter so much if you could still play the original nine but the new holes are interspersed with each nine such that they are jarringly incongruous.
The club itself seems to have recognized that problem, thankfully, and are now embarking on a project to make the course more cohesive. I'm hopeful we'll be hearing some positive reports about that in the near future. As we played it, the old holes would be a 5 or even 6, but the new ones maybe 2, if not 0.
Looking at the Bausch collection for Dorset Field Club, I was pleasantly surprised to see the amount movement and terrain around the new holes. While 4 is not a hole I would want on a course, the stretch from 12-16 moves over some interesting ground.
Here is 12, the short par 3.
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/DorsetFieldClub/mediafiles/l61.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/DorsetFieldClub/mediafiles/l61.jpg)
If the green within that punch bowl were a true punch bowl, I think this hole might be stronger still. But still, this is an interestingly framed shot.
Here's the green site in question:
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/DorsetFieldClub/mediafiles/l63.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/DorsetFieldClub/mediafiles/l63.jpg)
The rear bunker seems superfluous and the front buyer gratuitous. You could lose both and better still pull the green back and left (from the tee) to fill in the punchbowl. None-the-less, not what I would call a 0.
13 has a nice "between the dune" feel, and 14 and 15 benefit from this, as well.
As for 2/8, well, no one builds par 3's that fly over the green of other par 3's any more, so that's cool in it's own way. And 8, with the diagonal line of play and near dogleg layout will always be interesting.
Since this isn't far from home I'll be angling to get over there, soon.
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Joe Hancock/Mike CThe work at Sunningdale is fantastic. I love Maxwell rolls and the work at Sunningdale is reminiscent of those. Perhaps my favorite set of "modern" greens because they seem to "fit" the property so well. They make the course.My two quibbles ( I only quibble with the "artist" on aesthetics) are the cart path between #14 green and #15 tee...I want to see an all world green-tee-green melding.AndI love the mounding/speed slot that was built on the left side of the #6 fairway. Show it off...Eliminate any trees near it that are visible from the tee and especially the few that are in the background. With the hump I want to see through to #7 tee 400 yards away. I believe you built this? Show the darn thing off!!!!I only mention my two "points" to you because I am steadfast that this is some of the best restoration work I have seen. Kudos to you and Mike D. and Mike M
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Joe Hancock/Mike CThe work at Sunningdale is fantastic. I love Maxwell rolls and the work at Sunningdale is reminiscent of those. Perhaps my favorite set of "modern" greens because they seem to "fit" the property so well. They make the course.My two quibbles ( I only quibble with the "artist" on aesthetics) are the cart path between #14 green and #15 tee...I want to see an all world green-tee-green melding.AndI love the mounding/speed slot that was built on the left side of the #6 fairway. Show it off...Eliminate any trees near it that are visible from the tee and especially the few that are in the background. With the hump I want to see through to #7 tee 400 yards away. I believe you built this? Show the darn thing off!!!!I only mention my two "points" to you because I am steadfast that this is some of the best restoration work I have seen. Kudos to you and Mike D. and Mike M
Corey,
Agree with your assessment and additional recommendations. I definitely should have mentioned the wonderful greens.
Would you score Sunningdale higher than 6?
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David Harshbarger,
You may want to check about the status of Dorset as I believe they are going to begin some significant work there in the near term.
My biggest problem with the new holes was that they were so obviously manufactured (i.e. overshaped) as to be distracting. I really just could not see the need to go to that extent on land that seemed fit for the purpose in the first place.
Thanks for following along...enjoying your comments.
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I would have Sunningdale a 7. I think I am on the higher end because of the "neighborhood" and my preference for a round there over a few other of the Metro area greats.
I also think "liking greens" can be rather subjective, there are more than a few modern sets that I admire but don't necessarily fit my preference. The work at Sunningdale fits right in my wheelhouse stylistically.
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Palmer House Resort Golf Course - Manchester, VT
Wendall Cram/Hans Palmer 1982
I'm confident only two people in the whole wide-world have played Palmer House and Ekwanok on the same day. ;)
More photos of Palmer House (thanks to Matt Frey for creating the scorecard; BTW, I want to meet the fellow that holds the course record of 25 at PH, as I don't think either of us broke 40!):
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PalmerHouse/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/PalmerHouse/index.html)
Those greens look like they are conducive to neither the ground game nor the air game.
I love the fact that the green-tee transitions are mowed to fairway length. That's always a nice touch.
While a number of snarky comments came to mind ("do you think the addition of amenities such as the pool behind the 2nd green impacted the architect's original intent?" "How would compare the use of crowned greens at Palmer House as a means to protect par to their use at other courses, for example, Pinehurst #2?"), a more humble view is that this is a "custodian of the game" if maybe not a candidate for inclusion at no. 149. (In fact, given how intimately the course is routed to the resort, and its resulting scale, there may actually be a custodian maintaining this game.)
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David Harshbarger,
You may want to check about the status of Dorset as I believe they are going to begin some significant work there in the near term.
My biggest problem with the new holes was that they were so obviously manufactured (i.e. overshaped) as to be distracting. I really just could not see the need to go to that extent on land that seemed fit for the purpose in the first place.
Thanks for following along...enjoying your comments.
Ah, so the new holes are running over manufactured ground. I see your point. There's plenty of movement already.
I'll keep my ear to ground re: the Dorset changes/status. There are a number of folks at my club (in the adjacent county across the NY-line) that play the VT courses, so there's a chance someone knows.
There's an extra hole back past the 13th tee. Was that a practice area?
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Peter/ Corey/ Mike,
Thanks for feedback so far.
I’ve been on that property at Sunningdale, on and off, for over 12 years. As much work as we did, I wouldn’t expect all of it to be welcomed as “the best” of anything. I do think some of it is very, very good, and I think there are some near-misses that we came close on. All in all, it will always be a special place to me, but I know it still can’t be “perfect”, and that’s OK.
I often tell people about Sunningdale, and can’t understand why it isn’t on everyones radar; that’s a function of my love of the place and the people as much as it is of my opinion of its qualities. The thing I always list as the golf courses’ most compelling attribute is something we had little to do with....the routing. I love hearing Corey admire the “Maxwellian Rolls” that are a natural tendency of Mikes green designs, and I’m proud of the artistry of the bunkers/ grass lines/ views/ tees. But the way the course was routed over the ridges and through the valleys in a twisting, diagonal kind of way is just the type of thing that shows how good that land is. There are so many drives there that get your attention while standing on the tee, gauging the land and picking a line based on landforms rather than the usual “try to hit it in the fairway” mentality.
Anyway, I enjoy how Peter can cut through the details and get to the points that he does. While Mike C. may be biased before he arrives because he is a smart historian, I am as likely to give a biased opinion because of sweat, pride and valued relationships at any given project I’m lucky enough to be a part of. I’m good with all that, and Mike giving that bit of background as to how he thinks/ opines is an important nugget for me to hold on to.
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There's an extra hole back past the 13th tee. Was that a practice area?
David,
I believe that's a short game practice area, thanks.
All,
I got a bit slammed with a new work project over the holidays but hope to pick up and finish this thread in the next few weeks, thanks.
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Update to my "Coming Next" post.
I somehow neglected to review "Blue Shamrock Golf Course" in eastern PA that Joe Bausch and I walked on a 95 degree, humid day in the spring.
That also bumps my total rounds and 18 hole courses played this year up 1, so I went back and updated that post on the prior page.
Given that hot experience and the timing, Blue Shamrock will have to precede Pine Valley, Sewanee, Black Creek, Sweetens Cove, and Lookout Mountain and I'm sure that will help build the overall anticipation and excitement.
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Blue Shamrock Golf Club - Palmerton, PA
John Stuart McKaig 1915, Jim Andrews/Peter Wentz 1990
Doak Scale Score - 2.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49351269937_9a889ef5d0_b.jpg)
Playing widths are a problem with the newest nine holes at Blue Shamrock as seen on this approach to the long par four 12th.
Built originally for/by the management of the New Jersey Zinc Company mining operation in 1915, Blue Shamrock existed as a private club (called Blue Ridge Country Club) until recently when financial pressures led to a sale and re-opening and re-naming. For years the club had only nine holes which offered a very playable, modest if unexciting course for the membership of the blue collar town.
During the 1980s some members began to push for a long discussed acquisition of additional land and two members designed nine holes that were built with quite a bit of inhouse labor over a few years. What's in play today is an eighteen hole course, with holes of both the old and new nines interspersed within both nines.
The biggest problem is mostly found on the front nine as 7 of the 9 holes are the newer ones, squeezed in a narrow peninsula of land between woods and separated by wetlands and despite best efforts the effective playing widths of the holes is constricting, and most balls leaving the fairways are quickly lost. Such penal difficulty contrasts vividly with the older holes, built on uplands that include wide corridors and generally fun playability. It also appears that the inhouse membership only knew how to build one style of green, which is basically a raised plateau with most of the surface largely blind to the approach. This one-dimensional construction again contrasts rather abruptly against the more lay-of-the-land greens on the older nine.
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Pine Valley Golf Club - Clementon, NJ
George Crump/Harry Colt 1914-18, Hugh Wilson/Charles Alison 1921, William Flynn 1929, Perry Maxwell 1933, Tom Fazio 1989,2001,2018
Doak Scale Score - 10
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49154019292_a1923f7ec5_b.jpg)
The majestic sweep of Pine Valley evident from the perched 18th tee is simultaneously inviting and terrifying.
Pine Valley is the best course in the United States and probably the world based on the simple fact that most everyone agrees there are 17 great holes and 1 very good one, although not everyone agrees on which of the 18 is only "very good" and no other course can claim such a distinction.
Over recent decades, however, unchecked tree growth has led to a narrowing of playing corridors such that any number of George Crump's bunkers were lost in the trees, and beautiful, inspiring views were blocked off, particularly on holes such as 2, 5, 9, 12, 14, and 15. Further, the club lost some of the primal, rugged maintenance of the bunkering and some of the random look of the vegetation was lost to make room for the Sandpro.
The good news is that the club has made a concerted effort to reclaim some of those playing widths and even went so far as to clear almost the entire left side of holes number 5, and number 12. While it's quibbling with stylistics and construction techniques, my impression is that those efforts did not yield the best possible outcome. Particularly on hole 12, where one used to be able to walk into the woods and see random patterns of bunkers with trees growing out of them it always seemed to me that all that was needed was tree clearing, root removal, and bunker reconstruction. Instead, what's taken place seems like a construction job with backhoes unlike anything that existed at Pine Valley prior, and those newly excavated bunkers stand in stark contrast to everything else on the course.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49362454832_2b85079e83_b.jpg)
The good news is that a bold (re: crazy) player can attempt to drive the green again. The bad news is that he has to carry a new minefield of excavation that sticks out like a sore thumb.
All of this is nitpicking, of course. On this visit I got to see Pine Valley again through the fresh eyes of two first-timers, and as we progressed through the round you'd have thought they had made it through the gates of Heaven. In many ways, we may have.
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Blue Shamrock Golf Club - Palmerton, PA
John Stuart McKaig 1915, Jim Andrews/Peter Wentz 1990
More photos of Blue Shamrock from that steamy afternoon:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/BlueShamrock/index.html
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Blue Shamrock Golf Club - Palmerton, PA
John Stuart McKaig 1915, Jim Andrews/Peter Wentz 1990
Doak Scale Score - 2.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49351269937_9a889ef5d0_b.jpg)
Playing widths are a problem with the newest nine holes at Blue Shamrock as seen on this approach to the long par four 12th.
Not generally one to dunk on a course, but, this seems like a stretch at a 2.5. The triangular granite obstacle on 4 seems like a brutal randomizer, set a tad oblique to the line of play with a relatively uniform 45 degree pitch towards the woods.
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/BlueShamrock/mediafiles/l21.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/BlueShamrock/mediafiles/l21.jpg)
Yes, most would play over it, but those that do hit to that point don't really need the kick, do they?
The trees encroach on the 8th par-3 so much they block the line to the bunker.
(http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/BlueShamrock/mediafiles/l41.jpg) (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/BlueShamrock/mediafiles/l41.jpg)
14 holes have a bunker short/right of the green, the better to penalize the high-handicapper!
If half of all courses are 1's and 2's, this seems like a leap to get out of that pack.
Maybe I'm just overly annoyed that I wasn't able to figure out how the course was routed from the satellite view, even with the hint on which hole was 12. Looks like the clubhouse used to be by the road and now 18 was the par-3 finishing 9.
Anyway, always something to ponder on any course. Thanks for posting.
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Davis Harshbarger,
The pretty good stuff at Blue Shamrock sort of balances the awful stuff and it helps that most of the older holes are on the back nine so you leave the course feeling fairly positive overall.
Overall in the world of golf there is a lot of really bad architecture and maintenance out there so I had to debate whether Blue Shamrock was a 2.5 or 3 and ended up with the lower number simply because I wouldn't want to have anybody drive there on my advice.
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My continued thanks, Mike.
PV seems to me the only course I've ever read about to which the phrase "they don't build them like that anymore" could truthfully/meaningfully be applied. I can't think of another course past or present where the relative degree of difficulty between the tee shots and the approach shots is so significant; the former seem comparatively benign, while the latter seem truly frightening.
Luckily you have that new fancy shamnzy set of irons you got a couple of years ago :)
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The Course at Sewanee - Sewanee, TN
Albion Knight 1915, Gil Hanse/Jim Wagner 2013
Doak Scale Score - 6
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153315683_3c9387b06d_b.jpg)
A principal's nose bunker complex occupies what would normally be Position A on the par four 8th hole at Sewanee
While a good routing may be the most critical thing to get right for an architect, Sewanee makes the case that the fine details of the golf hole "innards" are likely just as important.
Originally built for the "University of the South" by the school's vice-chancellor Reverend Albion Knight in 1915, Knight inherited a wonderful rolling piece of property on a mountaintop with views to forever and although that bit of providence may have been fortuitous, by all accounts the golf course he built on it lacked much in terms of savoir vivre and architectural sophistication.
Still, Knight laid the holes out in a manner that visited the most impressive parts of the property in a clever manner so for an amateur effort it was quite good enough for his time. The course featured several ravine crossings and greensites set on hilltops at the edge of the world. So when Gil Hanse and Jim Wagner were asked to come and renovate the golf course in 2011 there was quite a bit of raw material to work with.
Hanse & Wagner basically kept the same routing and just created all new internals, including a new irrigation system. Borrowing liberally from holes abroad, the course starts with a wonderful Alps hole that can be played as either a par five or backbreaking par four depending on the tees in use (the course features different tees for each nine). The 9th green is a Road Hole green, and the par three third has redanish characteristics, while the 7th green features a valley of sin.
There are plenty of opportunities for scoring and risk taking, but I did feel that the 5th and 6th holes were both perhaps too severely difficult. The 5th is a steeply uphill 218 yard par three over a lake and cliffside chasm and it really is a long forced carry even from the shortest set of tees at 156 yards. The 437 yard sixth features a hogback fairway falling into some severe trouble on both sides and makes for a very perplexing target.
Ultimately thought, Hanse and Wagner did not undo God's work started by Reverend Knight; they merely enhanced it (ok, even I groaned typing that).
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Black Creek Club - Chattanooga, TN
Brian Silva 2000
Doak Scale Score - 6.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153818771_4474d1f18b_b.jpg)
The reverse redan 7th at over 200 yards is one of two redan holes at Black Creek.
Architect Brian Silva was given carte blanche at Black Creek to create a paean to the Macdonald/Raynor style of architecture and he went big and bold. Thankfully, the property has so many wonderful natural features in a spacious setting (regrettably with a real estate component that is mostly non-obtrusive) that those man-made features don't feel incongruous.
For the most part, it's all laid out in front of you in black and white with very obvious playing strategies. Most all of the CBM playbook is on full display from Shorts to Punchbowls, from a Biarritz to a Cape.
But most of the best holes are those more originally creative that use the natural features of the property. The 10th is a marvelous short par four where playing away from an impressive fairway bunker on the right side leaves a treacherously bad approach angle over the deepest bunker on the course to a green perched on a knoll high above, or the 12th where a drive hugging the dry creek running the length of the hole on the right side leaves the only advantageous angle to confidently cross the same gulch passing in front of the green.
The back nine is special, traversing into rolling foothills terrain with the mountains of Chattanooga as gorgeous backdrop. Given the setting, such bold holes as the Biarritz 17th with a four-foot deep swale somehow fit right in.
I've heard some criticism that both the long par four 9th and the short par five 18th end with full carries over the namesake Black Creek and indeed either can quickly ruin a round with careless thinking or poor execution. I'm in the opposite camp; making the carry and watching your ball nestle on the green on either hole is an immensely satisfying way to end a nine.
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The Course at Sewanee - Sewanee, TN
Albion Knight 1915, Gil Hanse/Jim Wagner 2013
Doak Scale Score - 6
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153315683_3c9387b06d_b.jpg)
A principal's nose bunker complex occupies what would normally be Position A on the par four 8th hole at Sewanee
While a good routing may be the most critical thing to get right for an architect, Sewanee makes the case that the fine details of the golf hole "innards" are likely just as important.
Originally built for the "University of the South" by the school's vice-chancellor Reverend Albion Knight in 1915, Knight inherited a wonderful rolling piece of property on a mountaintop with views to forever and although that bit of providence may have been fortuitous, by all accounts the golf course he built on it lacked much in terms of savoir vivre and architectural sophistication.
Still, Knight laid the holes out in a manner that visited the most impressive parts of the property in a clever manner so for an amateur effort it was quite good enough for his time. The course featured several ravine crossings and greensites set on hilltops at the edge of the world. So when Gil Hanse and Jim Wagner were asked to come and renovate the golf course in 2011 there was quite a bit of raw material to work with.
Hanse & Wagner basically kept the same routing and just created all new internals, including a new irrigation system. Borrowing liberally from holes abroad, the course starts with a wonderful Alps hole that can be played as either a par five or backbreaking par four depending on the tees in use (the course features different tees for each nine). The 9th green is a Road Hole green, and the par three third has redanish characteristics, while the 7th green features a valley of sin.
There are plenty of opportunities for scoring and risk taking, but I did feel that the 5th and 6th holes were both perhaps too severely difficult. The 5th is a steeply uphill 218 yard par three over a lake and cliffside chasm and it really is a long forced carry even from the shortest set of tees at 156 yards. The 437 yard sixth features a hogback fairway falling into some severe trouble on both sides and makes for a very perplexing target.
Ultimately thought, Hanse and Wagner did not undo God's work started by Reverend Knight; they merely enhanced it (ok, even I groaned typing that).
Great review, but I think it’s a “Bishop’s Nose” complex!
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Muirfield Village Golf Club - Dublin, OH
Jack Nicklaus/Desmond Muirhead 1974, Jack Nicklaus 2000-2018 and beyond
Doak Scale Rating - 6.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153962312_e4690feff0_b.jpg)
I can't imagine many people walking off the 18th green excited to run back out to the 1st tee for another go-round.
The first thing that comes to mind about Muirfield Village is that it's a course built to suit a purpose, and that is to play host to Jack's annual tournament featuring the best players in the world. Nicklaus always revered Bobby Jones, and admired the legacy Jones originally built with Mackenzie at Augusta with holes that attempted to copy classic features Bobby loved at St. Andrews, and Jack was inspired to do similarly back in his hometown of Columbus.
Jack also learned to love the links courses of the British Isles, and decided to name his club after the club where he won the 1966 British Open, as well as an earlier Walker Cup. Muirfield Village opened in 1974 to considerable acclaim and has since hosted a slew of significant tournaments and I had to keep reminding myself of that fact as I progressed through the round.
In fact, it is nearly impossible to objectively divorce Muirfield Village from its tournament history and reputation as "Jack's Place", yet if one is to fairly rate its status simply as a golf course one must try. From a tournament perspective for the very top echelon of the game, it seems to work and everyone seemingly agrees.
As a course for the rest of us trying to navigate the golf holes, it requires/demands any number of golf shots well above the capabilities of most mortals. For a high-handicapper, it's a train wreck waiting to happen. The vast majority of holes introduce water as a hazard, normally on the approach shot with some aqua right up against fully nine greens. The greens themselves usually present as small, diagonal, shallow or narrow targets requiring utmost in precision. The course slope rating from the white tees is a measly 147, for crying out loud!
Although the routing is solid, I also found it perplexing that the course Nicklaus chose for his memorial is essentially a real estate development. Thankfully, the houses are well set back, often on hillsides above the holes, but one wonders what could have been if that element hadn't been a primary focus and limiting element of the routing. What any of this has to do with an homage to anything in the Home of Golf is beyond me.
Over the years, the course has been tinkered with by Nicklaus almost continually, which unfortunately has led to the creation of gawdawful penal holes like the 16th, which seems to be an attempt to emulate 16 at ANGC but gets none of the angles right.
Muirfield Village is the poster child illustrating that the pursuit of trying to challenge top professionals a week each year eventually makes the course irrelevant for the rest of us. The fact that the course is closing for yet another round of significant changes confirms my instincts.
I played MV three times this last May, just before the tournament.I really liked two of the par 5's-5 and 11, and 3,13 and 14 amongst the par 4's as well 4 and 8 amongst the par 3's. I wanted to like the copy of 12 at ANGC from years of watching on TV but couldn't quite.
The monocromaticness of the place just didn't appeal, yet it works for me at ANGC :) (non objective I know but ANGC does have the pines. pinestraw and has the remnants of a former nursery showcased at peak season as the world comes out of winter)
In your picture it's difficult to tell which architecture is more offensive-the strip mall in the background or the course shaping and bunkers. 18 is indeed an awkward hole, perhaps only exceeded by the awkwardness of the hole preceeding it.
It is a wonderfully run facility with a fantastic staff, and impeccably groomed, and Mr. Nicklaus has the desire and means to keep it relevant for ever-expanding tournament golf-which in itself virtually disqualifies it for charm appeal.
The rest of your review I am mostly in agreement with.
The most positive word in your review was "solid" amidst a sea of negatives.
Plenty of "frank commentary"-why the 6.5? (which is a pretty high score)
That was one of my quibbles with the 1994 and 96 versions of the CG.
Big, often vapid modern courses by modern signatures were given "6" while many charming -compelling to play-classics with "nonchamponship" modern yardages but classic, memorable architecture here and overseas were given 5's,4's and evn 3's.
can't help but think some of the modern course scores in the CG were a concession to Alice Dye asking Tom to play nice to others after reading the original.
This is the thread of the year so far, fortunately no one has mentioned the world handicaps...
Great work Mike
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Chris Blakely,
Thanks...I stand corrected and make way for Bishop Reverend Albion Knight's probiscus!
jeffwarne,
I hear you completely and generally agree. I also generally note that I haven't been criticized too sharply when I mark a course down but woe unto me when I elevate a "Rich Maiden" to a 4 or Manasquan River to 8. ;)
I would say that because the Doak Scale is used to refer others whether a golf course is an interesting or enjoyable or architecturally noteworthy course that it is difficult not to be swayed somewhat by groupthink. Most observers rate a course like Muirfield Village as one of the top 10-20 courses built over the past half century and thus would probably give it an 8 or 9. I think my 6.5 gets the message across without coming at it as too much of a biased, one-off opinion, and in those cases when I present what I think is an outlier score I try to defend that in the commentary.
Glad you're enjoying, thanks!
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Sweetens Cove Golf Club - South Pittsburg, TN
Bob Thomas 1951, Rob Collins/Tad King 2014
Doak Scale Score - 7.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153317398_701a0bf9fc_b.jpg)
At Sweetens Cove it's not "two girls for every boy" as in the old Jan & Dean song, but instead "two holes on every green" on this golfing playground for the senses.
As someone who strongly believes golf should be fun, adventurous, unfair, captivating, affordable, self-revealing, and tempting, Sweetens Cover checks all my personal boxes. Rob Collins and Tad King have essentially taken a flat sandbox and somehow created both a Cinderella story and magical playground for adults.
Taking what Collins described as "the worst golf course he'd ever seen", a tired family built (1951) nine hole course with a total one foot of elevation change across the property and the other foot in the graveyard, the team used the basic routing of the original course and created golf's version of Disneyland.
Each of the holes offers amazing flexibility and variety based on tees used and hole locations (there are two holes on each green to be played for an eighteen hole round) and it's so much fun it would be difficult to imagine it ever growing tiresome. There are minor quibbles, such as the tall tree right in front of the par five third green that requires some thoughtful placement of the second, or the hood of an automobile turtle-back green on the 7th that can seem impossible, but those are missing the point. Here, it's the game as it was conceived where you suffer the bad breaks and the crazy bounces and the impossibly twisting rolls and just find your ball and try to figure out how to get it in the hole. It's a match-play dream course.
You think that's unfair? Tear up your damn scorecard.
The clubhouse is essentially a shack and is even smaller than the little one where I first played golf. In another throwback to the game's origins local custom has customers doing a complimentary shot of Tennessee bourbon poured into paper cups on the porch-rail of the shack. That's about it as far as service and amenities, thank God. As Collins says, "golf is enough".
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Lookout Mountain Club - Lookout Mountain, GA
Seth Raynor/Charles Banks 1925, Brian Silva 1998
Doak Scale Score - 6
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153820596_ed3639be98_b.jpg)
At Lookout Mountain, it's the templates with a twist (and glorious views) as in this "Short" sixth from a rocky-top tee with death lurking closely to the right.
In theory, Lookout Mountain should be a knockout. A recently restored Seth Raynor designed/Charles Banks constructed course at the height of both men's powers on a high promontory in northern Georgia with views for what seem to be thousands of miles. But alas, nothing is so easy.
The course is built on very hilly, nay, mountainous terrain that can be overwhelming and even disorienting to one's equilibrium as every stance is unbalanced. This can lead to some intense severity as the shot requirements coming into the greens are quite exacting. At that elevation, bedrock is just below the surface which made excavation a significant challenge. Thus, many of the bunkers planned by Raynor were never originally built and many remain that way in the Brian Silva "restoration" the club performed in the 1990s.
There are few more lovely places to play the game and for how hilly the course is it is still quite walkable given the intimacy and thoughtful routing. The course plays along a long, broad slope from north falling south, but there is more than enough dips and valleys throughout as to disguise the overall landform and create internal interest on virtually every single hole.
As I thought about it, perhaps this was a course where Raynor should have let the land dictate more of the challenge than being slavish to incorporating templates. Indeed, two of the best holes on the course are the only two par fives, 10 & 14 and they remind me of nothing I've seen before from Raynor. The long par four 7th is another terrific hole that just utilizes the existing natural features brilliantly.
Each of the "template" holes falls just short of perfect execution. The Biarritz is lacking a maintained front section (precisely as Raynor evidently drew) but his ambitious bunkering couldn't be realized probably due to subsurface rock and ongoing maintainability. The redan looks wonderful but the green does not have sufficient right to left fall for the proper playability at the angle it's played as the tee was moved left at some time to accommodate a parking roundabout. The short is attractive played from a stone structure, but does not offer the width and variability of green-size that is optimum. The Eden is significantly, almost steeply uphill with a green featuring almost certain three-putt (more likely off the green) as the penalty for anything beyond the hole location, which is particularly daunting given the required trajectory of the approach for the average golfer. The Road Hole has opportunity for improvement as it seems about half the green fill pad has never been recovered as green-space, making the placement of the key "road hole" greenside bunker almost superfluous. I do have to concede that the Alps is quite inspiring and as one comes over the top of the hill looking out for hundreds of miles it's a goosebump moment.
The greens are, in a word, bewildering. Given their maintained speeds, firmness, and throw in ever-present wind, bermuda grain, the "mountain effect", and their slope and contouring, I don't know any course where local knowledge isn't more at a premium. I can't think of another course where one is made to look almost pathetically silly given the putting variables.
Still, Lookout Mountain remains a lovely place to play in a unique setting that just exposes any weakness in anyone's game and does it with seeming glee.
(Note - I purposefully did not read the recent GCA thread started by Mark Chalfant on Lookout Mountain as I didn't want my impressions colored by other judgements. I will read it now.)
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Next, the final 10 courses of 2019:
Skyline (PA)
Paramus (NJ)
Orchard Hills (NJ)
Galen Hall (PA)
Brigantine (NJ)
Myrtlewood (SC)
Landfall (Dye) (NC)
Cape Fear National (NC)
Wilmington Muni (NC)
Cape Fear (NC)
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Just read Mark Chalfant's Lookout Mountain thread, now on page 2.
Good to see others were as bewildered by LM's greens as I was. Now I don't feel so badly. :D
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I couldn’t tell when you moved from Blue Shamrock to Pine Valley with the trees encroaching on both.
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I couldn’t tell when you moved from Blue Shamrock to Pine Valley with the trees encroaching on both.
Now that is funny, Mayday!
I love George Crump and his creation but think the "splendid isolation" he ostensibly sought has been vastly oversold.
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Lookout Mountain Club - Lookout Mountain, GA
The Biarritz is lacking a maintained front section (precisely as Raynor evidently drew) but his ambitious bunkering couldn't be realized probably due to subsurface rock and ongoing maintainability.
Curious as to where you get the idea that Raynor thought the Biarritz should have a maintained front section? His plan for LM clearly delineates the green starts after the swale.
(https://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc435/snilsen7/A1%20Album/LMGC%20s234_zpseg9wg4p1.jpg)
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Sven,
My wording was unclear, my bad.
What I meant to say is that the front of the Biarritz is maintained as fairway exactly as Raynor drew but the ambitious bunkering scheme he also drew was never realized, likely because of excavation difficulties and ongoing maintenance.
Hope that helps to clarify, thanks.
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Gotcha. Nice thread you got going here.
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Gotcha. Nice thread you got going here.
Thanks, Sven...much appreciated.
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Chris Blakely,
Thanks...I stand corrected and make way for Bishop Reverend Albion Knight's probiscus!
I was hoping you might get the reference as the 8th holes name is Bishop’s Nose!!
Great thread, you had some great golf trips last year!
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Skyline Golf Course - Carbondale, PA
Carl Schmidt 1959, Walter Petrilak 1988
Doak Scale Score - 1
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153322748_1048737fce_b.jpg)
Twelve years ago, I wrote about the short par five 18th at Skyline on this thread.
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30707.msg595289.html#msg595289 (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,30707.msg595289.html#msg595289)
Sadly, the tree that played so much into the strategy of the hole is now just a large hole in the ground.
Exhibit #2 proving that adage that sometimes you can't go home again.
As I've gotten into my 60s, I'm finding some nostalgic joy in going back to play golf courses I played in my youth that I haven't been to in decades. Never quite sure what to expect, one hopes to find a sense of rediscovery of something contiguous connecting youth and mature years, perhaps.
Skyline Golf Course was one of the first courses I ever played and it was where we played our high school matches. It was a thriving family built, owned, and run operation and it featured an executive (generously par 32) front nine and a regulation (par 34) back nine where we played our matches. It was no architectural giant but it had some good and interesting holes and certainly provided a nice, affordable place to play for our lower middle-class family. Mowing was done with gang mowers and the greens were quite slow but always in tip top shape. Believe it or not, the course used to have a few annual tournaments that would draw the best players in the region and it was always fun to watch them trying to hit the tiny green targets on the front nine and hit long drives that impressed me as a youth on the back.
My wife is starting to play again after some medical issues and I thought I'd take her to where I spent so many days of my youth and thought the front nine would be ideal for her to walk.
Sadly, what we found was a course in a state of woeful decline with significant infrastructure and upkeep issues. Fairway lengths were such that we spent inordinate time looking for golf balls and the greens were...in a word...dying.
I don't want to spend much more time on this except to say I hope that whatever has happened can be somehow corrected.
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Paramus Golf Course - Paramus, NJ
Willie Tucker/Cyril Walker 1929, Stephen Kay 1991
Doak Scale Score - 4
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153324948_e9ea72144a_b.jpg)
The 193 yard par three 12th has an old mausoleum in play a few steps right of the green.
When Ridgewood Country Club was being built in the late 1920s, Tillinghast and club officials considered three adjacent properties. Interestingly, all of them were turned into golf courses within a few short years.
Paramus was designed by Willie Tucker, who was the constructor of Ridgewood for Tilly, along with former US Open Champion Cyril Walker, who invested a lot of money into the new public course operation at what was originally called Saddle River Country Club and is now a township owned municipal called Paramus. Somewhat tragically, the course fell on hard times during the depression and Walker lost his fortune and fell into alcoholic despair, dying in a jail cell just over a decade later.
While not long at just over 6300 yards to a par of 71, virtually every hole features sound, interesting architecture and some quite interesting greens. Tucker's attention to detail is evident in both the land plan and the well-blended features and while there is nothing too visually attention-grabbing, there really isn't a need.
All of the par threes are very good, and there are enough "half par holes" to keep everyone in the game. Both nines end with tough holes, the 610 yard par five ninth over rolling terrain and the paralleling 420 yard 18th across similar terrain.
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Orchard Hills Golf Course - Paramus, NJ
Herbert Strong 1931, Robert McNeill 2011
Doak Scale Score - 3
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153327323_c53bd7acdb_b.jpg)
Orchard Hills occupies some nice, rolling terrain in Bergen County, NJ.
Another course adjacent to Ridgewood Country Club, I really wish I had the opportunity to see this course before the early 60s when half of the property was given up to create Bergen County Community College. I've found almost invariably that Herbert Strong courses are worthwhile affairs, and there is still evidence at Orchard Hills of his talents.
The original course was around 6,600 yards but today's has been truncated to just over 2800 yards, par 35, and serves a a county park facility. Still there are some decent holes still in play, such as the steep approach on the second and the rolling third that's a reachable par five. The greens that are original (7 by my count) are invariably interesting, but if you're looking for a hidden Strong gem, this isn't the place.
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Galen Hall Golf Club - Wernersville, PA
Alex Findlay/Henry Williams 1907, A.W. Tillinghast 1917, William Gordon/David Gordon 1955
Doak Scale Score - 6
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153329498_0147a70979_b.jpg)
The 193 yard long "Moat Hole" to an island green asks a lot of tough questions to the golfer.
If you are a lover of quirk, Galen Hall Golf Club in the hills of east-central Pennsylvania not far from Reading is your cup of tea.
Built originally as part of a hotel resort that offered a summer getaway and winter skiing, nine original holes were built by Alex Findlay with the property owner, and a decade later A. W. Tillinghast expanded the course to a full eighteen holes.
After a drive and pitch par four opener along the property boundary/entrance road to a shelf of an elevated green tilted sharply left to right, you are quickly served notice that this will not be standard fare golf on the 2nd hole, an up-and-over par five on steroids featuring a road crossing and then a reverse NASCAR banked turn to the left off a mountaintop to an elevated green far below.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49398995333_40a058ed2e_b.jpg)
Counter-intuitively, a drive well over into the right rough provides both a look at the distant green in the valley and the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of going for the green in two. But from this vantage point, who could resist trying?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49399709372_3393ce9b1d_b.jpg)
Conversely, here is the view everyone who takes that silly straight path up the middle of the fairway sees for their second shot, photo from the Bausch Archives.
The third continues with a lovely dogleg left, again along a road left with an approach over a public road sunken just below the green in a "ha-ha". Time for Funk & Wagnalls; "A ha-ha is a recessed landscape design element that creates a vertical barrier while preserving an uninterrupted view of the landscape beyond. The design includes a turfed incline that slopes downward to a sharply vertical face."
Four is a par six hole...actually a par three hole that should be a par six. It is 195 yards, slightly downhill, with a diagonal creek in front wrapping around the right side with another road and OB a few paces left and a hillside with broken ground behind and right. You know the proper shot is a layup, it's the #2 handicap hole on the course, yet once again who could resist attempting to hit such a simultaneously inviting and fearsome target? (photo courtesy of the Bausch Collection)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49399727937_a24924b268_b.jpg)
Temptation gets the best of almost everyone on the fourth hole at Galen Hall.
And so it goes. Some of the course is a slightly more standard, particularly those at the end of the property added by the Gordons in the 50s, but given the terrain the course does indeed keep you on your toes and never grows in any way tiresome or routine.
So it really is no big surprise when one finishes playing the long, 453 yard, number one handicap 14th hole with two creek crossings to come to the next hole and find a 193 yard par three to an island green propped up about 8 feet around, the famous "Moat Hole".
Consider that at this point you're still in the lower part of the property and need to get back up to the hilltop clubhouse and you'll get a sense of the final three holes, the 350 yard 16th, the 184 yard 17th steeply uphill across a ravine, and the uphill but reachable, bunkerless 480 yard par five finisher with a lovely, large green in full view of those dining on the clubhouse deck as you complete your round.
What's even cooler is with all of the challenging terrain, Galen Hall is routed so thoughtfully that it really is a great walk over 100 years later. What more could you want?
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Galen Hall Golf Club - Wernersville, PA
Alex Findlay/Henry Williams 1907, A.W. Tillinghast 1917, William Gordon/David Gordon 1955
More photos of Galen Hall from a summer 2015 visit:
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/GalenHall/index.html
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Brigantine Golf Links - Brigantine, NJ
Wayne Stiles/John Van Kleek 1927, Garrett Renn 1958, Garrett Gill 1986
Doak Scale Score - 5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49153831826_2584c01416_b.jpg)
There is something universally primal and endlessly appealing about open, wind-swept golf near the sea on sandy terrain.
I have no idea how to rate Brigantine Golf Links as I have a strong sentimental attachment having vacationed there with my family each summer through my teens. To say the course provided me with "pleasurable excitement" to use Dr. Mackenzie's terms is a vast understatement. So please take my rating with the proverbial grain of sea salt.
For starters, it is a housing development course, designed as such by Stiles & Van Kleek as one of the first planned recreational communities in the northeast in 1927, and admittedly the number and sizes of houses lining the perimeter has sadly dramatically increased over the past twenty years.
It is also almost dead flat,throughout, with some minor elevation near the newish clubhouse, which sadly replaced the ocean liner style castle backed by the bay I remember from my youth, now sadly replaced by three-story dwellings.
Conditions are never great, and always a bit raw, and in the roughs you're as likely to have a flat lie on hard-packed sand or some type of wiry crab-grass, as in thicker bents. The greens are kept on the slower side, befitting the windy site largely open to water on three sides (Brigantine itself is a barrier island), and the short flagsticks no higher than shoulder tall are needed for the functional purpose of remaining in the holes.
The course itself was abandoned in the late 1930s during the Depression and lay fallow and overgrown for almost 20 years until local golf course architect (and Cobb's Creek Superintendent) Garrett Renn was given the original Stiles & Van Kleek plans and was asked to resurrect the course to meet the burgeoning post-war demand as the island itself was becoming a vacation destination.
Still and all, the routing through the housing community with a number of road crossings is actually a thing of beauty with two clockwise loops on each side of a dividing entrance road lead to a series of interestingly conceived holes that seem to turn in all the right places. There are almost no trees, but most holes are lined with the native bayberry bushes and sea rushes. Forgivingly, playing widths are lovingly generous with some thoughtful bunker placement as well as some unexpected appearances of water filtering in from the bay.
Perhaps the highlight of the course architecturally is the beautiful use of a corner of the property that is a poor man's "Amen Corner", with the 315 yard 11th featuring a drive over a wall of sand and an approach to what used to be an island green (reduced sadly to a peninsula), the mid-length par three 12th with a green obscured by giant bunkers on each diagonal, and the tricky 375 yard par four 13th with a dogleg right around a watery lagoon and bunkers left for those who chicken out. I'm not sure what the modest total acreage occupied by those three gems is but the wrap around each other elegantly.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49400062367_f61721b3eb_b.jpg)
The amorphous nature and great width of the hole corridors on the perennially windy site is a big part of the appeal and day-to-day variation in how the holes play Here on the 13th there are any number of aiming points but the green seen in the gap in the distant right center of the photo always presents an elusive target.
Brigantine ends with a terrific par four to the wildest green on the 16th, the toughest par four on the course at 17, and a very reachable, forgiving par five on 18 and it's the kind of place I've always wanted to go back out after the finisher, but mom and grandmom were waiting back at the beach so my brothers and dad would have to pack our clubs back in the car trunk and wait for another glorious tomorrow.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49399911886_eae525ceb1_b.jpg)
I always take one last, long, nostalgic look down the expanse of the 18th hole before saying goodbye to Brigantine.
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Brigantine Golf Links - Brigantine, NJ
Wayne Stiles/John Van Kleek 1927, Garrett Renn 1958, Garrett Gill 1986
More photos of Brigantine from 2 visits (Dec 2014 and Sept 2015):
http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Brigantine/index.html (http://www80.homepage.villanova.edu/joseph.bausch/images/albums/Brigantine/index.html)
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Myrtlewood Golf Club (Palmetto) - Myrtle Beach, SC
Edmund Ault 1972, Dan Schlegel 2019
Doak Scale Score - 4
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49305342458_b5955a7b29_b.jpg)
The 18th hole at the Myrtlewood Palmetto course benefits from the scenic journey up the Intracoastal Waterway.
Architect Edmund Ault was a significant player in the post World War expansion of the game during the 1950s through the 1970s and was responsible for many of the courses built in the mid-Atlantic area. I've played any number of his courses and while they aren't stellar works of art they are highly-functional and generally interesting places to play.
Myrtlewood Palmetto was the second eighteen hole course Ault built on the property during the rapid expansion of golf in Myrtle Beach. Although there is a real estate component, the setbacks are generous and the course is exceptionally playable even if there is minimal elevation change throughout.
The course benefited last year when the owners found Ault's original plans and were struck by how much the course had negatively changed over the years as bunkering became non-descript or disappeared and greens that always had some nice contouring had significantly shrunk.
Architect Dan Schlegel, formerly of Ault/Clark was brought in to bring the course back to it's original dimensions. Greens were expanded by 28% on average which really bring both new hole locations and the strategic interest of the greenside bunkering back into play. Bunkers were re-done as well and the greens re-grassed with a newer strain of Bermuda. The effect is much like being transported in a time machine back to 1972 as it feels like a new course without being a modern one.
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I have a soft spot for such courses and such architects, Mike.
The Southern-South Western Ontario equivalent to Mr. Ault was Rene Muylaert.
He started in the golf industry as a 'labourer' at Uplands (a Stanley Thompson design), and moved his way up over the years to being a superintendent.
Then he went into architecture, and he never lost the common touch: dozens of mostly modest/low budget courses and very playable designs followed.
And, like with Myrtlewood, from what I could tell they were all highly functional -- and in truth they had much more strategic interest than most people recognize/give them credit for: subtle, no doubt, and gentle the choices were, but I'd like to think them 'minimalist' before the term came into use.
Sometimes I find myself thinking that the real/tangible/objective difference between a "4" and an "8" is often very small indeed (and even smaller if we are judging the 'architecture' instead of the 'course'). But I know: few are actually judging the 'architecture' rather than the 'course', and fewer still are judging the 'course' separate from its 'setting'.
And almost no one (myself included) is able now to 'judge' an Ault or a Muylaert with open eyes.
PS - just realized that made it sound like I thought you couldn't properly review the course, Mike. I meant that it's hard for anyone, now, to tap into the frame of mind to fully appreciate the course's purpose/function, back then.
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Thanks, Peter...that rings very true to me, as well.
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I think you're right Peter, if minimalism means using the fewest and simplest design elements to achieve the greatest desired effect, and fitting the (actual) lay of the land with as little disturbance as possible. But I'm not sure that's how the term is used now. I'm still trying to understand what is meant now (lot of threads on this), but it seems like it means different things to different people.
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Bernie - yes, that's a very good description/definition of what I did mean by that term.
It is so charming to me what could be accomplished on a dull piece of Ontario farmland or a nondescript strip of Myrtle Beach with little more than the one bunker per fairway the budget allowed for and a green that tilted a little back to front and left to right with the land.
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Country Club of Landfall (The Dye Course) - Wilmington, NC
Pete Dye/P.B. Dye 1987
Doak Scale Score - 6
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49305343948_de5ec87c86_b.jpg)
Pucker up on the 2nd tee on this short par three to a peninsula green where taking the obvious bunker bailout right is often just the start of one's problems.
The 1980s were arguably the most architecturally interesting of the late Pete Dye's career, where he perhaps had his best, most compelling combination of low-profile architecture blended with newer, imaginative, almost avant-garde touches. This was first seen at Sawgrass, extended at Long Cove, and continued through the rest of the decade at places like PGA West (Stadium), Riverdale Dunes, Loblolly Pines, Old Marsh, and so forth.
Landfall is an enticing mix of lowland architecture with just enough contour built into it for continual interest and variety. The short par four first with water abutting the green on the right and the wonderful short par four second are a caffeine addicts worst nightmare start, with the 2nd hole featuring a tongue of green back left that is just the height of audaciousness.
Fairways twist and turn with few dead straight holes so one is always needing to consider position. The par five 6th is a great example where from the tee you can challenge and attempt to carry a large pond left (the hole turns that way) to get into reasonable position to attack the semi-blind green turning right behind a massive bunker at the top of a rise.
In fact, almost all of the par fives are beauts, including the 12th that swings left and features a green well atop a steep rise with narrowing fairway in the last 110 yards. Temptation being what it is, most folks take the bait and end up down in a swale well below with that dreaded 80 yard steep uphill approach to the top of the flagstick view.
The back nine also features a series of lovely par fours that keep you on your toes and afford the advantage to the bold player who also knows where to miss. Such it is that the long 14th to a lovely green extending effortlessly from the fairway is the perfect place for a low-running approach, while the short par four 15th requires a drive that boldly attacks the left side (there's a world of room right, seemingly) and a fairway bunker is rewarded with the only visible approach. Those bailing right from the tee must confront a large built up mound and a blind wedge to a tiny green with water left and behind.
The long par four 17th is simply elegant, and again the play is to avoid temptation on the dogleg right and to simply play towards the bunkers down the left. From there, a lovely approach to a beautiful greensite benched into a hill is stellar stuff.
The course is not without its drawbacks, as the long par three 16th at a killer angle over water to a shallow target with a deep bunker behind is more akin to PGA West sadism, and the short par five 18th to a green sitting in what seems to be a moat of sand and a high side/low side fairway option that doesn't quite work as intended are disappointing on a course offering so many fine golf holes.
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Landfall Club.....that takes me back! I was the irrigation tech there in 1986/87! It was in the tail end of construction when I came on board. The super once gave me the job of spending 2 days w/ the photographer that Dye sent along. I was to do whatever he wanted...pin placements, ladder, move things around, etc. That photographer, who is the same age as me, started asking me what I knew about growing Fine Fescue, because he was getting ready to build his first design in Traverse City, MI and needed a super.....I was honest when I told him I knew very little!
Didn’t get the chance to run into him again until I walked The Loop with him the winter before it opened....The kid did well for himself, I’d say![/size][size=78%] [/size]
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@MCirba, I'm enjoying your recaps and photos.
Do you write the entries up throughout the year, or are you writing them all now as you post them? If the latter, wow.
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Hi Erik,
Glad you're enjoying...thanks for the nice comments.
I've always had sort of a photographic memory when it came to golf courses, not sure why except I love looking at them. Through this process I've just gone back to my scorecards I have arranged chronologically from the past year and maybe refresh the routing looking at aerials and historical data while I gather my thoughts and then just commit pen to paper. It's been fun!
Joe Hancock,
I think I may know that guy as well. I believe I played his course in Traverse City, sadly no more.
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Cape Fear National Golf Course - Leland, NC
Tim Cate 2009
Doak Scale Score - 5.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49305837976_3fb58a8f45_b.jpg)
The proverbial kitchen sink may be the only thing missing on the par four 5th hole at Cape Fear National.
Not to be confused with Cape Fear Country Club, which is the oldest country club in North Carolina, Cape Fear National Golf Course had the unfortunate plight of opening in 2009 during the height of the economic collapse. As such, ownership changed hands (again?) last year and the course is now being run by a management company. It remains to be seen if the growth of the surrounding real estate community is enough to keep the golf course viable over time.
Designed by regional architect Tim Cate who has crafted a large handful of well-regarded courses in the coastal NC/SC region, Cape Fear National is certainly eye-catching. Cate's style, which seems not to vary from site to site is a visually overwhelming, almost Dali-esque form of maximalism that is one part Mike Strantz, one part Desmond Muirhead, and one part Alister Mackenzie or Pete Dye. Because for all of the optical histrionics, most of it is illusion and purposefully so. None of the holes play anywhere near as difficult as they appear at first glance and if you don't fall for the intimidation factor and play conservatively they are fairly easy to navigate.
Take the third hole, for instance...please!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49468880917_a75b19dcd1_b.jpg)
Seriously, from the tee it appears as though this cape-like hole is nothing but a sea of water from tee to green as it turns right to left. Most assuredly time to reach in the bag for the water ball. However, taking a line out towards the left fairway bunker requires a carry of maybe 120 yards and there are acres of fairway beyond. The lake doesn't come within 100 yards of the green.
And so it goes. On hole after hole you stand on the tee wondering how you're going to navigate such a ferocious jungle of round-ruining horrors only to arrive at the fairway, or the green, and look back saying to yourself, "oh...is that all there is?" Turns out it's a comedy, not a tragedy. The only thing you have to fear is fear itself.
Fact is, there's a pretty good golf course in amidst all the clutter and noise, and with few exceptions like the 10th where housing has been built perilously close to the green, most of the golf holes are well out in serene Mother Nature and fundamentally enjoyable and otherwise architecturally sound.
The course is unusual in that both nines end with a par three, which seems more a function of the limits of the real estate plan than any quirky intent. Even within those limitations, the course is eminently walkable and even intimately routed in most stretches. Just bring your sense of humor.
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Coming next, my final two courses of 2019 aka "Donald Ross comes to Wilmington".
Wilmington Municipal
Cape Fear Country Club
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Wilmington Municipal Golf Course - Wilmington, NC
Donald Ross 1926, Ron Prichard/Clyde Johnston 1998, John Fought 2014
Doak Scale Score - 5.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49306049347_637a0a0ca7_b.jpg)
The tawny colors of the dormant Bermuda make a lovely contrast on the par three 4th "Volcano Hole". (Did I mention it makes me absolutely crazy when I see young people taking carts, especially on such a wonderfully lovely walking course?)
I first want to link to Ran's typically wonderful review of Wilmington from 2002. I'm not sure what more I can say except that everything he wrote at that time still generally holds true today, particularly the firm playing conditions.
http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/wilmington-golf-course-nc-usa/ (http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/wilmington-golf-course-nc-usa/)
My wife and I first played there about 10 years ago and this year she insisted we go back. The fact the ball runs forever is a constant delight to her and she did say I should mention that whoever built the thoughtful, well-positioned "red tees" at 4,723 yards should be knighted. Most courses are way too long & laborious for the average woman golfer.
It's her favorite course of the 50 or so she's played to date.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49468853048_ea81cc5918_b.jpg)
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Cape Fear Country Club - Wilmington, NC
Capt. E.W. Van Court Lucas 1902, Arthur Fenn 1905, Isaac Mackie/Burke Bridgers 1915, Donald Ross 1925, 1946, George Cobb/John Lafoy 1985, Willard Byrd 1993, Kris Spence 2006, Andrew Green 2018
Doak Scale Score - 7
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49305350283_93fc1ac489_b.jpg)
Everything is set on the same diagonal as the creek on the stunning short par four 13th. (The tee is back right)
One of my most pleasant surprises of 2019 came on the final course of the year, Cape Fear Country Club. Formed in 1896, and playing essentially on the same site since the early 1900s, the course began as nine holes, expanded to 18 in 1915, had some significant Ross revisions (and 7 new holes) in 1926 before a cohesive 18-hole Ross plan was drawn in 1946, one of his final courses (with J.B. McGovern).
I wasn't able to tell how much of what Ross drew (thankfully the club still has his detailed original hole drawings) found it's way into the ground at that time but subsequent revisions to the course and expansion of the clubhouse and parking over the next 60 years that eliminated the Ross 10th hole and much of the 18th hole (replaced with two new Willard Byrd holes in the 1990s) meant that Cape Fear came into the 21st century with a course that was a true RINO (Ross In Name Only).
As such, it comes as no surprise to me that when Tom Doak and Ran Morrissett rated Cape Fear based on playing there in 2005 they rated it as a "5" and "4", respectively in the most recent "Confidential Guide", bemoaning the loss of Ross features and holes over time. Indeed, aerials from that time period show a course missing many of the bunkers that Ross drew, as well.
In recent decades, the club has thankfully taken a new approach. In 2006 Kris Spence did restoration work to the worn out bunkers so that at least they were much more in tune to what Ross built. That work was well-received but a combination of continuing drainage issues and problems with the greens led the club to consider a more holistic approach and over the last few years embarked on a complete $5 million dollar restoration effort to rebuild of all the greens, bunkers, as well as considerable tree removal that was led by architect Andrew Green working from the original Ross plans. The two Byrd holes were abandoned and today's 14th hole looks to be a plan replica of the original 10th, while 18 has been reconstructed (using the original greensite) into a good short par four finisher.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49469608232_d3dfe6203a_b.jpg)
The par three 14th provides much the same challenge as the original abandoned 10th, thanks to the preservation of all the Ross hole drawings.
The results are wonderful. Always blessed with a lovely, rolling site for golf, with a sense of history amplified by Civil War trenches and embankments across the property, and an open, graceful spaciousness through most of the course that provides a sense of civil gentility, Cape Fear again looks and feels like an authentic Donald Ross course.
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Just to summarize, I thought it might be handy to go through them one more time as a self reality check. The only one I might raise in stature is my beloved Cobb's Creek, but that's a course in transition so hopefully that may take care of itself before too long.
10. - Oakmont, Pine Valley
8.0 - Lancaster, Moraine, Manasquan River
7.5 - Sweetens Cove
7.0 - Applebrook, Scioto, Ekwanok, Cape Fear
6.5 - Atlantic City, Berkshire, Muirfield Village, Sunningdale, Black Creek
6.0 - French Creek, Double Eagle, Sewanee, Lookout Mountain, Galen Hall, Landfall (Dye)
5.5 - Seaview (Bay), US Naval Academy, Rock Spring, Cape Fear National, Wilmington Muni
5.0 - Greate Bay, St. Davids, Columbia, Brigantine
4.5 - Cobb's Creek
4.0 - Rich Maiden, Olde Stonewall, Community (Hills), Dorset Field Club, Paramus, Myrtlewood
3.5 - Ed "Porky" Oliver, Honesdale, Rip Van Winkle
3.0 - Mountain Laurel, Scranton Muni, Orchard Hills
2.5 - Indian Mountain, Edgewood, Blue Shamrock
2.0 - Mountain Valley, Twin Willows
1.5 - Palmer House
1.0 - Skyline
Thanks to everyone for your comments and input to date.
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Just to summarize, I thought it might be handy to go through them one more time as a self reality check. The only one I might raise in stature is my beloved Cobb's Creek, but that's a course in transition so hopefully that may take care of itself before too long.
10. - Oakmont, Pine Valley
8.0 - Lancaster, Moraine, Manasquan River
7.5 - Sweetens Cove
7.0 - Applebrook, Scioto, Ekwanok, Cape Fear
6.5 - Atlantic City, Berkshire, Muirfield Village, Sunningdale, Black Creek
6.0 - French Creek, Double Eagle, Sewanee, Lookout Mountain, Galen Hall, Landfall (Dye)
5.5 - Seaview (Bay), US Naval Academy, Rock Spring, Cape Fear National, Wilmington Muni
5.0 - Greate Bay, St. Davids, Columbia, Brigantine
4.5 - Cobb's Creek
4.0 - Rich Maiden, Olde Stonewall, Community (Hills), Dorset Field Club, Paramus, Myrtlewood
3.5 - Ed "Porky" Oliver, Honesdale, Rip Van Winkle
3.0 - Mountain Laurel, Scranton Muni, Orchard Hills
2.5 - Indian Mountain, Edgewood, Blue Shamrock
2.0 - Mountain Valley, Twin Willows
1.5 - Palmer House
1.0 - Skyline
Thanks to everyone for your comments and input to date.
Mike, that's a great distribution of Doak ratings for a year, almost normal. Not sure if everyone would call that a success but I do.
Thanks for sharing all of these experiences with us. I have enjoyed it quite a bit and sure there are many who don't or can't post who have enjoyed it to.
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Mike,
Thanks for sharing all of these experiences with us. I have enjoyed it quite a bit and sure there are many who don't or can't post who have enjoyed it to.
+1. This has helped get me through the winter so far. Thanks Mike
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Wilmington Municipal Golf Course - Wilmington, NC
Donald Ross 1926, Ron Prichard/Clyde Johnston 1998
Doak Scale Score - 5.5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49306049347_637a0a0ca7_b.jpg)
The tawny colors of the dormant Bermuda make a lovely contrast on the par three 4th "Volcano Hole". (Did I mention it makes me absolutely crazy when I see young people taking carts, especially on such a wonderfully lovely walking course?)
I first want to link to Ran's typically wonderful review of Wilmington from 2002. I'm not sure what more I can say except that everything he wrote at that time still generally holds true today, particularly the firm playing conditions.
http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/wilmington-golf-course-nc-usa/ (http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/wilmington-golf-course-nc-usa/)
My wife and I first played there about 10 years ago and this year she insisted we go back. The fact the ball runs forever is a constant delight to her and she did say I should mention that whoever built the thoughtful, well-positioned "red tees" at 4,723 yards should be knighted. Most courses are way too long & laborious for the average woman golfer.
It's her favorite course of the 50 or so she's played to date.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49468853048_ea81cc5918_b.jpg)
Mike,
I had the pleasure to play Wilmington Muni 3 times in 2019 and again last week. In 2014 John Fought revised the course. The story is that DJR designed the course in 1925 and sand greens were installed due to lack of irrigation. In the early 1950's after irrigation was installed (Ross passed in 1948) the sand greens were grassed. Ross's course layout and individual hole diagrams show both the sand greens and what was going to be the grass greens. John Fought finished this design and now the greens are 2 to 2.5 times larger than when I first played it 10 years ago.
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David & Stewart,
Thank you so much...that means a lot to me. So glad you enjoyed.
Dave M.,
I was unaware of Fought's involvement. Thanks for enlightening me. I've updated my post.
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Just to summarize, I thought it might be handy to go through them one more time as a self reality check. The only one I might raise in stature is my beloved Cobb's Creek, but that's a course in transition so hopefully that may take care of itself before too long.
10. - Oakmont, Pine Valley
8.0 - Lancaster, Moraine, Manasquan River
7.5 - Sweetens Cove
7.0 - Applebrook, Scioto, Ekwanok, Cape Fear
6.5 - Atlantic City, Berkshire, Muirfield Village, Sunningdale, Black Creek
6.0 - French Creek, Double Eagle, Sewanee, Lookout Mountain, Galen Hall, Landfall (Dye)
5.5 - Seaview (Bay), US Naval Academy, Rock Spring, Cape Fear National, Wilmington Muni
5.0 - Greate Bay, St. Davids, Columbia, Brigantine
4.5 - Cobb's Creek
4.0 - Rich Maiden, Olde Stonewall, Community (Hills), Dorset Field Club, Paramus, Myrtlewood
3.5 - Ed "Porky" Oliver, Honesdale, Rip Van Winkle
3.0 - Mountain Laurel, Scranton Muni, Orchard Hills
2.5 - Indian Mountain, Edgewood, Blue Shamrock
2.0 - Mountain Valley, Twin Willows
1.5 - Palmer House
1.0 - Skyline
Thanks to everyone for your comments and input to date.
Mike, that's a great distribution of Doak ratings for a year, almost normal. Not sure if everyone would call that a success but I do.
As David notes, a balanced distribution and an opportunity to sample a wide variety of quality and styles. Great stuff Mike.
I had an interesting discussion with a GOLF Top 100 panelist recently that commented he didn't think I would make a good panelist because of my desire to seek out gems less on the beaten path. His theory was that I wasn't playing enough of the "best" places and therefore wouldn't be qualified.......I took a huge gulp of my beverage before responding....then a second gulp...
I asked if the list of the 450ish courses that raters were supposed to play was public as I'd be curious to see it. He replied it was "confidential" then proceeded to share it...I won't share the results of our johnson measuring as it's not relevant to the post...but...
How do you really rate quality if all you play is a preordained "quality" list, and how are are you "more" qualified by playing a far narrower range of courses?
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Mike,
Thanks for sharing all of these experiences with us. I have enjoyed it quite a bit and sure there are many who don't or can't post who have enjoyed it to.
+1. This has helped get me through the winter so far. Thanks Mike
+2. And I renew my suggestion from earlier in the thread that a guide to courses within 15 minutes or so of Interstate Highways would be most useful.
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Thanks, Jeff & Ira,
I just went through the list and did the math and my average course played last year was a 5.63, at least in my rating.
I do understand those who have the ability to travel extensively not wanting to play anything less than a Doak 5 but my travel ability is more limited to a few adventures per year. I also wonder how folks who don't see the pantheon of golf courses know exactly how good one course is relative to others but I enjoy seeing them all. I think most folks don't see enough bad golf courses to understand exactly how good a "3" really is. :)
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I just went through the list and did the math and my average course played last year was a 5.63, at least in my rating.
If the Doak scale puts "Average" at 3, and your play averaged 5.63, then you've had a good pretty year architecture-wise, definitely in Lake Wobegon territory.
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I just went through the list and did the math and my average course played last year was a 5.63, at least in my rating.
If the Doak scale puts "Average" at 3, and your play averaged 5.63, then you've had a good pretty year architecture-wise, definitely in Lake Wobegon territory.
I've never met Mike, is he that good-looking? ;)
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I've never met Mike, is he that good-looking? ;)
I've never met him, either, but I'll grant him "above average" site unseen :-)
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At some point the messages transitioned from "I'm going to post about Galen Hall and Brigantine" to questioning my moral integrity as though I were missing some form of golf architecture epistemological imperative.
Mike Cirba is correct, as is normal, but this is an historic Penn State Mens' Basketball Team, among other earthly and spiritual distractions.
Galen Hall Golf Club is required study for anyone seeking to understand the history of Golf Architecture in American from 1910-1994. I try not to go all R****** with linking to my own blog here, but alas, it's germane and prescient and perhaps represents a voice from my past not so jaded by the disappointment of the stock golf architecture "connoisseur." I'm no Bradley Klein or Tim Gavrich, but perhaps I can become a better Kyle Harris from the past.
What now follows is a love letter in multimedia form.
A sense of place:
(https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11059416_10108900724533574_8506350816881686935_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ohc=YUetuEXd4YQAX87XbrS&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-1.xx&oh=5a4d4133df228fa9a83d9b9f244fcd54&oe=5EBCC9FF)
Is there a better introduction to any golf course than a first tee mere steps out the shop door?
The first hole:
https://kylewharris.com/2011/02/09/an-opening-hole-galen-hall-golf-club/ (https://kylewharris.com/2011/02/09/an-opening-hole-galen-hall-golf-club/)
Click the link. But there is no better statement about anything at Galen Hall than what is the first approximately 330 yards of golf. You're never quite comfortable but everything is apparent. There are a slew of options to mitigate your discomfort and the green, while perched, isn't completely inaccessible. Bogey isn't a *great* feeling but it is also understandable. Play away, please.
Galen Hall is a rare case of a golf course that has undergone consistent improvement with each subsequent renovation. Seven of the original nine Alex Findlay holes remain untouched and the bones of the other two either lie under trees and cart path, or an irrigation/mitigation dam. Perhaps we can call this the Jeri Ryan loop.
But we digressed here, while making the seemingly strange walk to the second tee.
It's not strange in situ, because you are walking up the original Par-3 second as you do so. Look closely in the photo on my blog link (click the link, said the click whore) and you'll notice a slight "shelf" in the woods to the right of the house. Dead level. Also apparent just right of the two spruce trees is another plateau. Welp. Tee and green for a tricky little pitch shot Par-3. It's all right there.
I don't want to talk about the current 2nd hole because I don't want to tell Ryan Farrow why he is wrong, again.
The third is a candidate for best hole on the golf course and I disagree with the idea that the 4th may be over the top. The fifth, though, is an interesting study. It was enough of a golf hole in the original iteration that Tillinghast wrote about it (this is the hole labelled "Wernersville" in which Tillinghast Society compilation you see that) and the golfer original played to the plateau that is currently the pond and then over to the current green site. Tillinghast called it an elbow and if one takes the time study Alex Findlay you realize this style of hole is a close to a template as Findlay ever had. The original tenth at nearby Reading CC was a downhill version and the fifth at Pitman Golf Course in New Jersey is a mirror image in this style. There is a SEVERE version at the very-nearby and needs-to-be-seen Manor Golf Club which involves a public road.
The current version of the fifth (then sixth) plays straight through the terrain Findlay wisely avoided in an era where drainage was done via exposed gravity. It's awkward, but fun, like so many of my dates.
I liked the bunkerless sixth before they added bunkers. I haven't seen it since they've added bunkers but the hole didn't *need* bunkers. That's fine though because they left the greensite alone. Bunkers can go away easily. We now traverse to the Galen Hall mystery spot. A gander to the right shows the severe uphill seventeenth - the eighth for Mr. Findlay - and a path to the left takes us to the first of the Tillinghast holes.
Somewhere in the gorge created by the creek coming off the mountain, our beloved and misunderstood Albert Warren had a short hole; which means an interation of Galen Hall had three Par-3s fanning like a peacock's feathers using the same feature. It also means that two of these had to play consecutively.
But it also means that Galen Hall has a body count of short holes. More on this later.
The seventh is a spectacular Par-3, so we're going to skip it. Just go play it already.
The vista from the eighth tee is nothing short of stunning and one finally sees the majority of the golf course in the valley beneath. Even the Moat Hole is visible, yet still shrouded in mystery. There's also a green right next to a barn.
It's as good of a time as any to say this because the eighthgreen is NOT Tillinghast. Enter William and David Gordon, the overly maligned and underrated heirs presumptive to the William Flynn legacy. Our first introduction to their contribution is the attractively saddled eighth green benched into the hillside beguiling the third shots on this gigantic Par-5. You sense the stylistic change but the combination works because Tillinghast used a rather gentle (read: non-existent) hand on the first 550 yards of the hole. [size=78%]
So let's just get it out of the way. The Albert Warren Tillinghast holes at Galen Hall are in the bottom tier of golfing quality on the property. While the barn and the moat represent the high points of quirk, neither are the quirkiest holes, and the other holes are well...
Meh.
I will hear arguments about the 14th, however, but this is a love letter and an opinion piece. I need to start somewhere.
Moving on. The Gordon loop of the eighth green to the eleventh green takes advantage of property not available to Tillinghast because of subsequent land purchase. Additionally this stretch places into and out of Lancaster County (we're in Amish country, baby!) and due to the quirks of Pennsylvania's Byzantine Blue Laws the half-way house after the lovely Par-3 tenth operates under different rules than the clubhouse in terms of your libation and mid-round frankfurter.
The holes are a solid representation of an era that valued engineering frugality and practical golf. Each shot is interesting and the greens are both sited and contoured well. What the poorly named dark-ages lacked in quirk and originality the made up for with solid golfing interest. You're still going to misread the dastardly little 11th green.
Onward to the Par-5 twelfth and it's barn. As you pass the forward tee out of the chute of trees and look left to the eighth green you look across the last of the Par-3s in Galen Hall's body count of holes. A high-to-high affair that Tillinghast used to get across the valley along the original property line. I'm not sure much was lost.
I happen to like the thirteenth and it's severe little green-site. Fourteen, as I alluded to above, is a great study in restraint, difficulty, and using the ground to challenge the golfer, but golly when it rains the hole is a just a quagmire and the green is almost the very definition of "uninspired, throw-away, quirk" though I suppose if Donald Ross had mailed in the plan someone like Andy Johnson might have something to say about it.
We've talked the Moat Hole to death and I'm eager to get back to the Findlay finish, though the 16th may be the only golf hole I've played where the most apt description is "cute." The little greensite with it's bunker makes me giggle in a good way.
And now... the seventeenth
[/size]Who in the name of Mucci-Red builds this kind of hole in 19-whatever!?I am a staunch defender of the loooooooong Par-3 (there's two OG GCA Poster references in two lines, pardner) and the 17th at Galen Hall is on my short list of "See? those guys did it too, hit your driver and shut up, please." The front of this putting surface was raised to accommodate modern green speeds and a few new hole locations, but the Findlay version must have been invitingly fun to see the ball chase up the hill. It wasn't until recently that I had faced a final tee shot that inspired me to absolutely crush a driver on a specific line like the ultimate shot at Galen Hall has.
That golf course was Cherry Hills and I succeeded in my one attempt at Cherry Hills. I've yet to do so at Galen Hall. But somewhere out there my ability, mental focus, and the rough-and-tumble landing area will conspire to create a tee shot that is, as they say, stupid long. I hope they don't mess with this green for the sake of creating more hole locations. I hope they don't mess with this course. I actually do hope you all go play it. Which is rare for a course I like. Y'all tend to ruin things by... discussing... them. Just go play.
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Bravo.
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Mike,
You know me, I had to chart it out to see the distribution curve. I guess in this case not sure if its a normal distribution or not but its "good enough for government work" ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/fdcLbZL.jpg)
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Love it, Kalen.
Thanks for adding the Eagles logo...I know that wasn't easy. ;)
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Love it, Kalen.
Thanks for adding the Eagles logo...I know that wasn't easy. ;)
Its all good Mike. The Eagles are one of the few teams in the league i'll root for in a big game, like this last year when they played Seattle in the playoffs! Going to Eagles games looks like damn fun, as opposed to 9er games where people barely get out of thier seats...
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Brigantine Golf Links.
This presented an interesting exercise in memory, for me, since Brigantine elicits the same viscerally emotional response as Galen Hall.
But it's not the same same. It's just the same. Galen Hall is a golf course of shots and situations where Brigantine lies back and allows the stories to unfold depending on the match that day, your mood, your breakfast (or drinks from the night before), etc. In fact, it took a little bit of aerial reconnaissance via Google to jog the memory of some of the earlier holes.
But isn't that a GREAT thing?
Brigantine is almost an ideal golf course in the sense that it only enters into your consciousness as situations dictate, not forcing itself upon you but forcing you upon itself.
Consider a stimulus-induced joyfest like Tobacco Road - an absolute blast to play - but one where each shot is the memory and perhaps not the match or the overall round.
Then consider the 6th tee at Brigantine. A bit awkward, maybe 5 yards too narrow on either side, but EXTREMELY important if you're already 2-down in the match and trying to stop the bleeding. Somewhere, at some point, your context matters and then suddenly the golf course is there to challenge. Until that point, though, it lies waiting, perhaps even a bit dull.
Suddenly you're a few down or a few over. What happened? What will happen? What can happen?
#10-11-12 then rise to the occasion and you'd be legitimate in your post-round analysis if you walked away feeling like this was the only stretch that truly got the "fizz" going. Brigantine, however, isn't the Bugatti Veyron of golf course. It's not even the WRX. What it is... it's the car that has a tight suspension which you deftly rely upon to steer around the obstacle in the middle of the road. You don't hit the deer but your heart is racing. You got your rush.
And it always happens.
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Just to summarize, I thought it might be handy to go through them one more time as a self reality check. The only one I might raise in stature is my beloved Cobb's Creek, but that's a course in transition so hopefully that may take care of itself before too long.
10. - Oakmont, Pine Valley
8.0 - Lancaster, Moraine, Manasquan River
7.5 - Sweetens Cove
7.0 - Applebrook, Scioto, Ekwanok, Cape Fear
6.5 - Atlantic City, Berkshire, Muirfield Village, Sunningdale, Black Creek
6.0 - French Creek, Double Eagle, Sewanee, Lookout Mountain, Galen Hall, Landfall (Dye)
5.5 - Seaview (Bay), US Naval Academy, Rock Spring, Cape Fear National, Wilmington Muni
5.0 - Greate Bay, St. Davids, Columbia, Brigantine
4.5 - Cobb's Creek
4.0 - Rich Maiden, Olde Stonewall, Community (Hills), Dorset Field Club, Paramus, Myrtlewood
3.5 - Ed "Porky" Oliver, Honesdale, Rip Van Winkle
3.0 - Mountain Laurel, Scranton Muni, Orchard Hills
2.5 - Indian Mountain, Edgewood, Blue Shamrock
2.0 - Mountain Valley, Twin Willows
1.5 - Palmer House
1.0 - Skyline
Thanks to everyone for your comments and input to date.
Mike - you may have mentioned this earlier and if so my apologies. Out of all the courses listed above not named Pine Valley or Oakmont, if you could only play 1 for the rest of your life which would it be and why?
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Just to summarize, I thought it might be handy to go through them one more time as a self reality check. The only one I might raise in stature is my beloved Cobb's Creek, but that's a course in transition so hopefully that may take care of itself before too long.
10. - Oakmont, Pine Valley
8.0 - Lancaster, Moraine, Manasquan River
7.5 - Sweetens Cove
7.0 - Applebrook, Scioto, Ekwanok, Cape Fear
6.5 - Atlantic City, Berkshire, Muirfield Village, Sunningdale, Black Creek
6.0 - French Creek, Double Eagle, Sewanee, Lookout Mountain, Galen Hall, Landfall (Dye)
5.5 - Seaview (Bay), US Naval Academy, Rock Spring, Cape Fear National, Wilmington Muni
5.0 - Greate Bay, St. Davids, Columbia, Brigantine
4.5 - Cobb's Creek
4.0 - Rich Maiden, Olde Stonewall, Community (Hills), Dorset Field Club, Paramus, Myrtlewood
3.5 - Ed "Porky" Oliver, Honesdale, Rip Van Winkle
3.0 - Mountain Laurel, Scranton Muni, Orchard Hills
2.5 - Indian Mountain, Edgewood, Blue Shamrock
2.0 - Mountain Valley, Twin Willows
1.5 - Palmer House
1.0 - Skyline
Thanks to everyone for your comments and input to date.
Mike - you may have mentioned this earlier and if so my apologies. Out of all the courses listed above not named Pine Valley or Oakmont, if you could only play 1 for the rest of your life which would it be and why?
Great question. As a follow-up, if you included Pine Valley and Oakmont would either be the 1 course you played for the rest of your life? They are both reputed ball-busters. Is that what you would want your golf to be day in and day out?
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JReese & David H,
Those are some great questions. Let me ponder for a day or so and come up with a cogent response.
My initial thought is that a constant diet of either/both would quickly lead to a head to toe uncontrollable St. Vitus Dance.
But that's just me being funny. Great questions deserve thought.
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Mike,As much as I think you overrate Manasquan River GC, a local friend has told me it is now better since your last visit. I'm looking forward to playing it in September to change my opinion.
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Peter,
It is spanking good. Enjoy.