Golf Club Atlas

GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Jim Hoak on November 20, 2019, 02:35:14 PM

Title: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on November 20, 2019, 02:35:14 PM
Brook Hollow GC in Dallas is undergoing a significant historical restoration project to its golf course with the course just shut down as of November 4, work underway, and a projected reopening next fall. Up to this point, I am not aware of any golf media attention.

Brook Hollow’s founding occurred in 1920, and the course opened in 1922, with an additional 300 yards added in 1925. One of Brook Hollow’s founders was Cameron Buxton, also a founding member at Pine Valley, credited with helping George Crump develop that golf course. Mr. Buxton, a Philadelphia cotton trader who moved to Dallas, was the influential party in convincing A.W. Tillinghast to come to Dallas and build Dallas’ best and most prestigious golf course, which Buxton envisioned as the “Pine Valley of the West.” According to most reports, Tillinghast spent more time at Brook Hollow than he did at any other golf course outside of the Northeast. Brook Hollow is also cited as the first course in the country with an in-ground irrigation system.

In the 1940’s, Brook Hollow hired Perry Maxwell to do work at the course, which turned its famously square greens to round. Since the 1940’s, several local and national architects have worked on many aspects of the golf course, hiding much of the original Tillinghast treasure. Brook Hollow hosted the Trans-Mississippi in 1978 and 2006, the USGA Mid-Am in 1987, and 9 Texas Amateurs, the most of any course. 

In 2016 Brook Hollow members decided it was time to return the golf course to its original heritage and planning began.  The Club hired Keith Foster, judged to be an expert on Tillinghast restoration work, to guide the process.  It decided to stick with Keith through his legal issues.  Keith was the architect for the acclaimed renovations of Tillinghast courses, Philadelphia Cricket and Baltimore Country Club. Keith’s plans for Brook Hollow were approved by its membership, which is very committed and excited to complete a restoration of Tillinghast’s work. Keith consulted with historical Tillinghast experts on what was planned and done by Tillie at Brook Hollow and has used a 1925 aerial photo as partial guidance for the work.  Prior to commencing work on Brook Hollow, he visited 10 Tillinghast courses to get an increased feel for the Tillinghast style.  He is currently spending a great deal of time each week at Brook Hollow.  And the La Bar Construction crews are underway with the work, having completed the renovation work at LACC and Merion.

The golf world should keep their eye on this project as it progresses.  Its budget is possibly the largest ever for a Tillinghast renovation, and it will feature some technology not usually seen on golf courses that do not host major championships, for example a sub-terrain cooling system for its Bentgrass greens.  Every aspect of the course, including the return of its “Great Hazard” feature on the 15th hole, squaring of the greens, re-sloping of greens’ approaches, and recreating bunker shapes and styles, is in adherence to Tillinghast’s design principles.  Fairways and roughs will be Tahoma Bermuda, the first time this new grass has been used for an entire course.

The guiding principle of this renovation is meant to honor the Tillinghast design and the history of one of the outstanding Tillinghast courses completed during his prime years 1918-1923.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Tom_Doak on November 20, 2019, 03:28:02 PM
Jim:


It's really weird to read your write up and see no mention of the extensive work done there by Coore and Crenshaw, twenty or so years ago.  IIRC, their intention was mostly to restore it, but the club did not want to take down all the trees between fairways to restore the bunkers that Tillinghast built to separate them originally.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jeff_Brauer on November 20, 2019, 04:54:51 PM
Not to mention, Tripp Davis did one there not that many years ago.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Trey Kemp on November 21, 2019, 10:54:09 AM
Mr. Hoak,  I have seen the plan and have briefly corresponded with Mr. Foster about the project.  Once it is finished I have no doubt that it will be one of the best Tillinghast courses in the country.  I wish the club good luck on the project and I can't wait to see the finished product.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on November 21, 2019, 11:23:28 PM
Is the great hazard feature related to the lower area right of 15? Isn't there an irrigation pond hidden back there?Strangly, Brook Hollow seems to have a sandy soil and a few pine trees which is unusual for Dallas. One of my favorite courses anywhere. Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on November 21, 2019, 11:25:45 PM
Do you know what kind of sand they plan to use in the bunkers?
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on November 22, 2019, 08:18:18 AM
Mike--The Great Hazard will be mid-way on the par 5, 15th, wrapping up toward 16 tee--much like Tillinghast had it.  No pond I'm aware of, but could be out of play.  (I checked and you are right.  There is an irrigation pond by the maintenance facility--totally out of play and out of sight from the course.  Thanks.)
Sand will be traditional but not decided yet.
Sandy soil and pine trees--very unusual for Dallas.


Tom and Jeff--As said in the original post, there were many people who worked on the course since 1940, for better or for worse.  But none were based to restore the Tillinghast-feel of the original.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: David Wuthrich on November 22, 2019, 11:22:44 AM
Jim,  Thanks for the update.  Nice to see this happening in our state!
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Douglas Kelley on November 23, 2019, 01:06:00 PM
Mike -- Yes, there is a pond behind the trees on the right of 15 tee. (Pretty good fishing too!)
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on November 24, 2019, 12:14:51 AM
While we are on Brook Hollow, does anyone know the real history of the low area that runs in front of 18,10,6 and 9? I have heard it was once water, and I know the river , creek and flood works may have changed things. I have heard different things from different people who would seem to know.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on November 24, 2019, 08:17:58 AM
A lot of different theories and probably depended on the time of year.  But it appears it was more of a low, marshy area than a brook.  Used to get oily run off from nearby Love Field.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Lou_Duran on December 01, 2019, 02:34:46 PM
Kudos to the decision makers at BH for sticking with Keith Foster.  The loyalty will likely pay off with superior execution of a very impressive plan.  As long as the local economy keeps on humming, it will be interesting to watch the reaction from its peers.  Though all have completed significant renovations in the past few years, much tree work remains.  I do wonder if the ultra-dwarf Bermudas got a fair hearing.  I only wish I was 20-30 years younger and met the member profile to bide my time patiently on the reported 10+ year wait list.  It would not surprise me if the course shot up to near the top.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on December 02, 2019, 12:11:59 AM
When it comes to trees, the city of Dallas is a totalitarian regime with a tree czar counting the the trees that disappear and requiring new plantings. They are currently confused by the tornado that came through my neighborhood because they can't figure out how to ticket the weather. If they would just pick the trash up regularly....
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on December 02, 2019, 10:41:48 AM
Mike, my understanding of the tree ordinance is that trees need to be replanted--or a fee paid.  But even on replanting, there is no requirement that they be replanted in the same location.  The ordinance while restrictive is less onerous than many places.
Sorry, about your home!  I've driven the area.  Very sad!  So much for the theory that a tornado couldn't hit Dallas!
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Lou_Duran on December 02, 2019, 10:42:01 AM
When it comes to trees, the city of Dallas is a totalitarian regime with a tree czar counting the the trees that disappear and requiring new plantings. They are currently confused by the tornado that came through my neighborhood because they can't figure out how to ticket the weather. If they would just pick the trash up regularly....


Mike,


You are right.  And not just Dallas.  Tree ordinances have a perverse effect.  I remember property owners in Tarrant County clear-cutting their land to avoid anticipated future restrictions.  20 years later, some of the land remains undeveloped, with trash trees and weeds taking over where native oaks once grew.


On the opposite end, Grand Prairie did not have a tree ordinance years ago which made it possible for an industrial developer to purchase Great Southwest Golf Club, wipe out thousands of trees, many oaks and pecans of considerable girth, and build gigantic warehouse buildings on the site.  The former mayor, who had a townhome adjacent to the golf course, lamented his opposition to an ordinance similar to Dalllas' as the project would not have made financial sense if the trees had to be replaced trunk caliper inch per trunk caliper inch.


Tripp Davis, responding to the question why Northwood didn't take down more trees during its renovation, stated that it would have cost an additional $1 Million to accomplish what he had recommended.  As the site didn't have room for the new plantings, the city would have been happy to accept the monetary penalty.


I hope you weren't impacted by the tornado.  I've only seen the damage from the Tollway, but a friend who has had to rent an apartment for his family tells me that it will be well over six months before he can hope to move back.  If you lost some trees, DO NOT replace them with red oaks  The three I planted are producing acorns like crazy.  Talk about trash and varmints.     






Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jeff_Brauer on December 02, 2019, 11:55:45 AM

Mike,


If they could ticket or tax the weather, I'm sure they would.  Not as bad as Minnesota, where I have checked my rental car receipt only to find the state has taxed my rental car points.  Only a few cents, but LOL.


Some cities have both tree saving and water conservation ordinances, perhaps not realizing that those massive shade trees use far more water than grasses.  Or, just a conscious decision that their value is greater in shade and cooling than water preservation.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Anthony_Nysse on December 02, 2019, 01:44:56 PM
Kudos to the decision makers at BH for sticking with Keith Foster.  The loyalty will likely pay off with superior execution of a very impressive plan.  As long as the local economy keeps on humming, it will be interesting to watch the reaction from its peers.  Though all have completed significant renovations in the past few years, much tree work remains.  I do wonder if the ultra-dwarf Bermudas got a fair hearing.  I only wish I was 20-30 years younger and met the member profile to bide my time patiently on the reported 10+ year wait list.  It would not surprise me if the course shot up to near the top.



I think with the introduction of hydroponics under greens, I think you will actually see clubs having much more success with bentgrass in the transition zones. The ability to lower the soil temperatures 15-20* or more make bentgrass in the DFW area MUCH more sustainable. It also allows for amore consistent & firmer surface, thus increasing golfers enjoyment. It can pay off quicker than most would think. 
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on December 03, 2019, 12:22:10 AM
Just to be clear, we were very lucky and missed the damage by maybe 200 yards. It really does sound like a freight train and we thought the windows were going to explode. The street and school to my north as well as my shopping center are ruined. Drive by St. marks school and then down Royal. It is a war zone. Several of the totals include my cousins next door neighbor with 5 million dollars in damage. A coalition to buy trees in mass is being started by a friend and the hope is to pay for trees for some who can't afford. All sad but no one died. Our fire station was flattened but they were out on call already. Trees are valuable on this prairie. We moved trees to the peremeter of our course and planted around peremeter. It is expensive to move trees. Ask forgiveness not permission or it doesn't happen. After our problems, Northwood may have gotten a head start. Just routine maintenance I am sure. Thanks for the thoughts. Others do need them.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Tim_Weiman on December 03, 2019, 01:35:34 PM

Mike,


If they could ticket or tax the weather, I'm sure they would.  Not as bad as Minnesota, where I have checked my rental car receipt only to find the state has taxed my rental car points.  Only a few cents, but LOL.


Some cities have both tree saving and water conservation ordinances, perhaps not realizing that those massive shade trees use far more water than grasses.  Or, just a conscious decision that their value is greater in shade and cooling than water preservation.
Jeff,


I don’t want to hijack this thread, but, wow, taxing rental car points? Amazing!


Anyway, it sounds like Brook Hollow would be worth seeing when the work is complete.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on December 11, 2019, 12:29:25 AM
Anyone know the plans for number 8. The green and pond have always felt out of place. Maybe I am wrong, but assume that was rebuilt later.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Trey Kemp on December 11, 2019, 09:52:19 AM

Mike, I am not sure of the plans for hole 8 but here is a picture from back in the 1930's. 
(https://i.imgur.com/yOkgFib.jpg?2)
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on December 15, 2019, 11:34:09 PM
Interesting. The green looks pretty similar. I am surprised the pond was there back then. Difficult to really focus on the hole with the backdrop so different.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Tom_Doak on December 16, 2019, 11:09:25 AM
A coalition to buy trees in mass is being started by a friend and the hope is to pay for trees for some who can't afford.


Just a thought:


If there are plenty of golf clubs that would like to remove trees but can't because they have no room to plant new ones and they don't want to pay high taxes for removal, could they maybe mitigate by offering to fund the replacement of trees in areas damaged by the tornado?
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: JC Jones on December 16, 2019, 01:10:15 PM
Kudos to the decision makers at BH for sticking with Keith Foster.  The loyalty will likely pay off with superior execution of a very impressive plan.  As long as the local economy keeps on humming, it will be interesting to watch the reaction from its peers.  Though all have completed significant renovations in the past few years, much tree work remains.  I do wonder if the ultra-dwarf Bermudas got a fair hearing.  I only wish I was 20-30 years younger and met the member profile to bide my time patiently on the reported 10+ year wait list.  It would not surprise me if the course shot up to near the top.



I think with the introduction of hydroponics under greens, I think you will actually see clubs having much more success with bentgrass in the transition zones. The ability to lower the soil temperatures 15-20* or more make bentgrass in the DFW area MUCH more sustainable. It also allows for amore consistent & firmer surface, thus increasing golfers enjoyment. It can pay off quicker than most would think.


I will always defer to you on issues of turf, partly as a fellow Spartan, and am in full agreement that bent is better than bermuda.  I will say, however, that my one bermuda grass experience in Dallas at Trinity Forest had me convinced that there is a future out there for bermuda.  The greens there are phenomenal to the point I had to double check whether it was bermuda (it is Champion bermuda - but that means nothing to me).  The only two courses I've played on that level are #2 and Quail Hollow.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Joel_Stewart on December 16, 2019, 10:31:32 PM
Keith has posted a few pictures on his Instagram account including the original drawing by Tillinghast. The square greens and other features look pretty good.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Lou_Duran on December 17, 2019, 10:11:32 AM
I look pretty good too in a six button double-breasted suit, but perhaps out of place today.  If I was a mover on the project, I would have to be convinced of the architectural merits of geometric shapes and sharp corners (cons: more difficult maintenance, less reflective of natural patterns and perhaps harder to blend in with the surroundings). 


J.C.- I have come to the position that fighting Mother Nature is a losing proposition for most clubs and that grasses more suitable for the local environment should get as much consideration as playability and image.  Champion is my favorite of the main ultra-dwarfs, but my home course has TifEagle and I would rate them easily in the Top 10 in DFW.



I was hoping that with Royal Oaks converting from bent to Champion that other high-end clubs would consider doing so as well, but except for Maridoe and the new PGA courses yet to be built, that has not been the case.  I can certainly understand BH going in their direction and hopefully the cooling/heating underground system will provide superior putting surfaces throughout the year.  My bet is that the trend to Champion and TifEagle will continue at other courses facing different economic and financial realities.


Trinity Forest's greens are a blast, but not highly popular among the locals from what I hear.  Holding everything else equal (c.p.), bent is a superior putting surface and most always easier for chipping and pitching.  I keep hearing noise that an alternative site is being explored for the Nelson, a pity in my opinion if true.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on December 17, 2019, 10:43:52 PM
Lou: if Brook Hollow went tiff or some other Bermda, would you have to take contour out of multiple greens? Where does that sit with people?

Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: JC Jones on December 18, 2019, 04:37:16 AM
I look pretty good too in a six button double-breasted suit, but perhaps out of place today.  If I was a mover on the project, I would have to be convinced of the architectural merits of geometric shapes and sharp corners (cons: more difficult maintenance, less reflective of natural patterns and perhaps harder to blend in with the surroundings). 


J.C.- I have come to the position that fighting Mother Nature is a losing proposition for most clubs and that grasses more suitable for the local environment should get as much consideration as playability and image.  Champion is my favorite of the main ultra-dwarfs, but my home course has TifEagle and I would rate them easily in the Top 10 in DFW.



I was hoping that with Royal Oaks converting from bent to Champion that other high-end clubs would consider doing so as well, but except for Maridoe and the new PGA courses yet to be built, that has not been the case.  I can certainly understand BH going in their direction and hopefully the cooling/heating underground system will provide superior putting surfaces throughout the year.  My bet is that the trend to Champion and TifEagle will continue at other courses facing different economic and financial realities.


Trinity Forest's greens are a blast, but not highly popular among the locals from what I hear.  Holding everything else equal (c.p.), bent is a superior putting surface and most always easier for chipping and pitching.  I keep hearing noise that an alternative site is being explored for the Nelson, a pity in my opinion if true.


I doubt the locals have an issue with the condition or quality of turf when discussing the greens at TF.  Rather, I think they are projecting their frustrations with their inability to putt well.


I will always feel that good bent is better than great Bermuda, I was just giving examples of Bermuda that is so good I don’t care that it’s bermuda anymore.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on June 05, 2020, 07:58:43 PM
The Brook Hollow restoration project is done.  Architect Keith Foster and the construction crews have left—or are leaving.  Now the grass—new Tahoma Bermuda—will grow in before play begins this fall.  Members are unanimously excited with the finished work. 
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on June 06, 2020, 12:12:32 AM
Jim: what did they decide on the sand ? Forgive my ignorance, but is the Tahoma Bermuda fairway grass or greens grass? I had guessed you would go Zozsia(sp) and bent with sub air ? I have not followed the new grasses very well. I love that sandy soil.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on June 06, 2020, 01:26:04 AM
Let me get you the name of the sand used.
Tahoma is a Bermuda used in the fairways and rough.  It is the newest grass from Oklahoma State, and I think this is the first time it has been used for a whole course.  It is a bright emerald green.  Greens are bent with sub-air on all greens.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on June 06, 2020, 10:23:19 AM
On the sand, they ended up with something called Pro Choice--it is from the same manufacturer as Premier White, but a darker shade, less glaring white.  It took several tries to find the right sand to look traditional, but still somewhat more playable.
As you will recall, the goal of the restoration was to restore the Tillinghast feel to the course.  I hope as people play it, they will feel it was achieved.  I think after his work at Philly Cricket and Baltimore Five Farms, and now this, Keith Foster is achieving a reputation for great Tillinghast work.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on June 06, 2020, 11:03:44 AM
When this project was undertaken, the Club had two goals beyond restoring a course for frustrated members—to be regarded once again as the best golf course in DFW and to be seen as the best Tillinghast course not on either coast.  We’ll see what people think.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Paul Jones on June 08, 2020, 10:13:38 AM
Jim,


Do you have any pictures to share?  I played the course about 10 years ago and it was already my favorite in Dallas.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: David Wuthrich on June 08, 2020, 11:25:55 AM
Jim,


Very exciting news!


After seeing the Dallas Morning News rank of courses in Texas, ha ha, I think that you guys should definently challenge for the number one spot after all the work that you have done.


Can't wait to see it firsthand this fall hopefully!



Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Steve Lapper on June 08, 2020, 11:45:03 AM
On the sand, they ended up with something called Pro Choice--it is from the same manufacturer as Premier White, but a darker shade, less glaring white.  It took several tries to find the right sand to look traditional, but still somewhat more playable.
As you will recall, the goal of the restoration was to restore the Tillinghast feel to the course.  I hope as people play it, they will feel it was achieved.  I think after his work at Philly Cricket and Baltimore Five Farms, and now this, Keith Foster is achieving a reputation for great Tillinghast work.


  Jim,


  Having overseen a very successful Tillinghast restoration, it's exciting and quite satisfying. We used Jim Urbina and he did a good job.


   You should also know one of the very first Keith Foster-AWT restoration-renovation jobs was Sands Point GC on the north shore of L.I. There, Keith did a wonderful job bringing that gem back to life. He's undeniable evolved into a Tilly specialist and deservedly so.


   I used to play Brook Hollow a good number of times in the early 1980s, as I had business partners from the DFW area. It's a gem indeed. Congrats and good luck!



Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Lou_Duran on June 08, 2020, 12:09:56 PM
So, David, care to flesh out your "ha ha"?


The BH reopening is highly anticipated.  I've heard from a couple members that it looks fantastic.


A number of years ago we were hosted at a Rangers game by someone who turned out to be a member of one of those clubs rarted ahead of BH.  We were having small talk- I didn't know him at all- but his logoed golf shirt suggested a common interest.  I made a casual comment about how much I enjoyed Dallas National and that set off an unintended, impassioned response.


His club is highly private with a small membership.  The pro and any some of the members I've known over the years will tell you that they don't care about the ratings or, for that matter, what other people think about the club.


The objectives for BH bring to mind the gentleman's response, and I paraphrase: "Sure, DN is the new course in town and it has all the bells and whistles.  But we're going to spend $XX Million to update ours and then we'll see which one is better".  I was expecting an invitation to see the finished work, but it never came (from him).


Might we see a new arms race if indeed BH moves to the head of the class?  All of the top courses in Dallas and Fort Worth have been updated and improved, some more than once in the last decade.


I am a believer in the laws of diminishing returns, but since Keynesian economics on steroids seems to be in the zeitgeist, designers, construction firms and vendors could become reasonable conduits for pumping money into the system.  Other than the members losing the use of their course for up to a year, what is not to like?       
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: David Wuthrich on June 08, 2020, 12:33:08 PM
Lou, I was more referring to others on the 2020 list, not specifically DN.  Sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Lou_Duran on June 08, 2020, 12:53:03 PM
No confusion or controversy.  I am always curious about what people think about golf courses.  Every once in a while I am reminded of how subjective the evaluation of golf courses is.  For example, I once played with an excellent golfer, a long time rater, and member of several clubs in the U.S. and Scotland.  In discussing some courses between Edinburgh and North Berwick, I asked him what he thought of a course I had played recently and his response was that "it is rubbish".  My thought was, well, it may not be as tournament quality as Muirfield and not as much fun as North Berwick, but "rubbish"?


I try very hard to make a distinction between the club and the course.  There are some courses I like very much that I seldom play because I don't feel comfortable playing as a guest.  And there are some courses where I like the club atmosphere a lot but not the course so much.  I only return when there has been some work done, but seldom has that moved my opinion of the course very much (which might suggest that the routing has a predominant influence on my perception of gca).   
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: David Wuthrich on June 08, 2020, 01:20:04 PM
Lou,
Totally understand.  The DMN list has for years made me shake my head in disbelief.   Everyone is always looking for their tastes!
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Anthony_Nysse on June 08, 2020, 01:40:44 PM
Jim: what did they decide on the sand ? Forgive my ignorance, but is the Tahoma Bermuda fairway grass or greens grass? I had guessed you would go Zozsia(sp) and bent with sub air ? I have not followed the new grasses very well. I love that sandy soil.



I know that they have also installed the hydronics system under the greens just like LACC, Southern Hills, Merion & soon to be Oakland Hills. Augusta has had them for years.


https://subairsystems.com/golf/why-subair-golf/hydronics-temperature-control-systems/
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on June 08, 2020, 03:22:03 PM
As to the suggestion of pictures, I have plenty, but . . . .
I have been posting on here for 10+ years, but I am an IT klutz and I have never put a picture on yet.  I read past posts of instructions on how to do it, but I didn't understand the instructions nor the lingo.  If someone can give me a second-grade level set of instructions (or simpler), I will do it.  If it is as complicated as the past posts, I need to pass.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on June 08, 2020, 11:04:30 PM
I think the view from the clubhouse can really set the tone for a course ( Oakmont, Muirfield). Brook Hollow has that same feel and having the 10th hole right in front is really neat. What a nice par 3. With no road crossings, it is your own little world. It is golf as it should be. My favorite in the area.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Tim Gallant on June 10, 2020, 08:16:20 AM
Posting these photos on behalf of Jim Hoak and the club. I believe Jim will give a bit more detail on each of the photos and what we're looking at!


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49991578927_cf337e9a9e_c.jpg)


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49991333491_54bd239c4b_c.jpg)


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49991579112_cb6b04bd01_c.jpg)


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49991333756_3d292e104f_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on June 10, 2020, 10:27:23 AM
Thanks to Tim for posting these for a klutz like me!
The top two photos are of #7 and #8--original vs. now.  #7 is a great par 4--still hurt unfortunately even after the restoration by the office building which is off-property.  But still a very good hole.  Notice the squaring of the greens--a Tillinghast trademark, which had been lost over the years. 
The other photos are of the Great Hazard at #15--another Tillinghast feature which has ben restored.
I'll get more photos on (through Tim) as I think they are relevant.
Note the greenness of the grass--the new Tahoma bermuda.
Course should be able to open for play this early fall.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Trey Kemp on June 10, 2020, 12:38:48 PM
Looks great Jim, I can't wait to get out and see the finished product.  Congrats to you and the club!
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Tim Gallant on June 11, 2020, 09:27:54 AM
A few more photos of the par-3 10th. Photos courtesy of Jim Hoak and club:


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49994834591_6dd2e97a09_c.jpg)


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49995088547_54ee37c30e_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on June 11, 2020, 11:04:06 AM
This par 3 #10th is a very good hole.  Over the years it had become over-bunkered with giant bunkers on both sides of the Green.  The Tillinghast style was to have one main bunker and then supporting bunkers, which hopefully has been achieved.
Note again the squaring of the Green.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on June 13, 2020, 12:32:07 AM
I think Hogan talked highly of 7. Love the pictures of 10 and the sand barrens. Hope the day school is gone from the office building. Evidently a few kids learned anatomy the wrong way.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Tom Fussell on June 14, 2020, 03:44:55 PM
Love the square greens, very classic!


I played there probably twenty years ago, but don't remember too much about the course.   I do remember one hole which had a great view of the Cowboys old Texas Stadium off in the distance, and of hearing stories from the longtime member I played with of an outing there featuring Arnold Palmer.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: John Emerson on June 15, 2020, 11:03:55 AM
Kudos to the decision makers at BH for sticking with Keith Foster.  The loyalty will likely pay off with superior execution of a very impressive plan.  As long as the local economy keeps on humming, it will be interesting to watch the reaction from its peers.  Though all have completed significant renovations in the past few years, much tree work remains.  I do wonder if the ultra-dwarf Bermudas got a fair hearing.  I only wish I was 20-30 years younger and met the member profile to bide my time patiently on the reported 10+ year wait list.  It would not surprise me if the course shot up to near the top.





I think with the introduction of hydroponics under greens, I think you will actually see clubs having much more success with bentgrass in the transition zones. The ability to lower the soil temperatures 15-20* or more make bentgrass in the DFW area MUCH more sustainable. It also allows for amore consistent & firmer surface, thus increasing golfers enjoyment. It can pay off quicker than most would think.


Why are so many clubs trying to fight mother nature?  Did I miss the memo that bermuda greens are no longer acceptable putting surfaces?
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Tim Gallant on June 15, 2020, 11:18:29 AM
Three more photos courtesy of Jim Hoak and club:


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50008774248_4fb49fa743_z.jpg)


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50009301596_56e278bef0_z.jpg)


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50009563892_391a3b4413_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on June 15, 2020, 11:35:44 AM
OK, I think I've sent enough photos of the BH redo.  Or, rather, Tim has sent enough on my behalf.  I thank him again.
The top photo is the Great Hazard again.  And the middle one is looking back at the First Tee, where a small practice putting green was added next to the tee, for players wishing to roll a few last minute putts before teeing off.  The bottom one is the par 3, #4th, Hole.  Waste area added up to the Green.
Another feature of the redo (not pictured) was the addition of drainage ditch areas on a few holes--to aid in the run-off of water--usually out-of-play, somewhat reminiscent of the ditches of Sunningdale Old.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: mike_beene on June 15, 2020, 11:23:12 PM
Bent works great 10 months of year and not bad July and August. Why would anyone want to play in Dallas in those months?
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Jim Hoak on June 16, 2020, 11:47:22 AM
That was basically our calculation of bent vs. Bermuda on the greens.  We felt that with hydronics, there would be fewer questionable days during the 12-month Texas season for bent than for Bermuda.  Even with hydronics, we will allow for fans in the hottest time of the year, but we think we can avoid the use most of the time.  And we believed that bent would have a longer "good" time than Bermuda.  We believed that Bermuda greens were getting better in general--and it wasn't a clear--or unanimous--call to use bent.  But for us, bent seemed to be a better choice.  And it is the grass most of the members were most used to seeing and playing.
Title: Re: Brook Hollow GC, Dallas, Restoration Project
Post by: Chris Kurzner on June 16, 2020, 07:04:28 PM
That was basically our calculation of bent vs. Bermuda on the greens.  We felt that with hydronics, there would be fewer questionable days during the 12-month Texas season for bent than for Bermuda.  Even with hydronics, we will allow for fans in the hottest time of the year, but we think we can avoid the use most of the time.  And we believed that bent would have a longer "good" time than Bermuda.  We believed that Bermuda greens were getting better in general--and it wasn't a clear--or unanimous--call to use bent.  But for us, bent seemed to be a better choice.  And it is the grass most of the members were most used to seeing and playing.
As Mike can no doubt tell you, based on the incredibly improved conditions at Lakewood (largely due to targeted syringingand dry jecting), plus the added benefit of the sub-air cooling at BH, I expect your greens will be phenomenal.