Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Frank M on October 26, 2018, 11:36:58 PM
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I’ve been a golf course architecture fan my whole life, but I’ve struggled to find like-minded golfers who see the game the way I do and it has unfortunately taken away from my drive to play, as ultimately, I see golf as social.
Golf is in my mind a “rule-less” game. Sure, there are golf competitions, but other than taking a club and hitting the ball I don’t subscribe to any definition of golf beyond that...it’s for each individuals enjoyment however they see fit...would be my definition.
When it comes to golf courses, I love Top 100’s, Top 1000’s, bottom 100’s and bottom 5’s. That’s not to say I don’t recognize strong golf course architecutre, it’s just to say that I like the discovery of playing a new golf course no matter how good or “bad” it is.
The more I’ve played with GCA folks the more I’ve started to not want to play with them. They tend to get lost analyzing such trivial parts of a golf course and not only is it unejoyable to talk to them but also unenjoyable to play with them. Add to that how serious they take their games and it’s just a lost cause.
My partial rant over but the question remains... where are the golfers like me? That love GCA, don’t care about any rules, enjoy playing any new golf course, and enjoy the company of other good people?
I’m struggling to find any and I dread being thought of as a GCA type/fan and all the connotations that come with it.
P.S.
If you are offended by this post for some reason, don’t be. I don’t know you.
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Frank,
I do not know where you are based but in the UK most of the GCAers I have met are as you describe yourself. 99% of us do not play the game anywhere near well enough to take it seriously and the 1% have mainly lost the fun element but don't realise it.
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If you are going to gamble you got to have rules. Besides that all my friends are in your camp.
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Good to know they are out there...I guess I'm just not good at making friends :'(
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Golfing friends are easy to make. Most guys are sick of the people they have been playing with and are easily won over. Buy a few drinks, give a few shots...run the long con.
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Frank,
You can put me in this group. I'm not rigid with the rules and I love exploring new courses....
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Frank,
You can put me in this group. I'm not rigid with the rules and I love exploring new courses....
A round is in order then!
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Everyone plays golf for different things. I for example love hitting good shots, even if they don't end up as well as a bad shot that got a lucky break may have landed. I don't care too much how I score (though if I hit more good shots, the score generally follows). I love GCA, but don't have to talk about it with everyone I play with… and almost never do, but I'm almost always processing the architecture of the course while I'm playing, silently. And if we're not playing against each other I don't care what rules you follow or don't follow.
I think you may have just gotten stale with some people (and they with you), and you can find a new set of buddies. Or just play more as a single and see with whom you get grouped.
However you enjoy the game, keep enjoying it how you like.
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You know the old saying: Show me a happy foursome and I'll show you three guys looking for a new partner.
Please don't play as a single. They are the dregs of golfing society. You paid for a range. Use it!!!
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However you enjoy the game, keep enjoying it how you like.
The above attitude is both modern in thinking and a huge problem facing the future of the game.
To function as a great club conformity is crucial. It starts with how you dress and ends with how you play. If everyone else plays by the rules, walks or rides, plays in twosomes or foursomes, do as they do. You can enjoy yourself without getting everything you want.
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I rarely keep score, play more difficult ground shots than easier aerial ones, sometimes play a second ball, whatever moves me. I enjoy my round no matter how I play because I've had a good walk. In competition I follow the rules.
I feel bad for the golfers who seemingly tie their self esteem to their score as they are statistically likely to shoot their handicap only 20% of the time. Likely the cause of many dour faces at the end of a round.
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The above attitude is both modern in thinking and a huge problem facing the future of the game.
Yeah, no. When the alternative is telling people "that's not golf, go away" then I don't care if people roll the ball in the fairway, don't putt out, or just like to visit the range and hit drivers. They're still "golfers" in my book, and if they aren't playing against me in a competitive situation, they can play by whatever stupid rules they want.
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Please don't play as a single. They are the dregs of golfing society. You paid for a range. Use it!!!
I love playing as single!
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Please don't play as a single. They are the dregs of golfing society. You paid for a range. Use it!!!
I love playing as single!
I am sincerely interested in why you love playing as a single. Is it your first choice when given the option of either playing alone or with friends? What goes through your mind as you play through slower groups of golfers? What is the appeal of playing alone?
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The above attitude is both modern in thinking and a huge problem facing the future of the game.
Yeah, no. When the alternative is telling people "that's not golf, go away" then I don't care if people roll the ball in the fairway, don't putt out, or just like to visit the range and hit drivers. They're still "golfers" in my book, and if they aren't playing against me in a competitive situation, they can play by whatever stupid rules they want.
Erik,
As one of the finest young teaching pros working today, do you ever instruct your students how to dress and conduct themselves on the course during competition? Do you believe that structure in appearance can lead to better scores?
Should any golfer care about how another golfer on an adjacent fairway is dressed?
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I play most of my golf as a single after work. I play as many holes as I like, make up my own routing and enjoy the walk as sun filters through the majestic long leaf pines. It is only partly about the golf.
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Nothing wrong with playing dress up.
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Follow the money.
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It wasn't until last night that I realized how many people are playing dress up in place of playing golf. I've been guilty myself with my Mackenzie bag and hickory clubs. It must be why those guys who are walking alone on adjacent fairways click their irons together hoping to catch a glance.
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JK,
You should know full well by now the world is full of different strokes for different folks.
Some please like purely social rounds, others prefer single solitary rounds...and still others like both, like me.
Still curious why you think singles are killing the future of the game?
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As one of the finest young teaching pros working today, do you ever instruct your students how to dress and conduct themselves on the course during competition? Do you believe that structure in appearance can lead to better scores?
I extoll the virtues of pants (keep your legs in the shade, less need to apply sunscreen to your legs, modern fabrics are still breathable), and occasionally mention dress codes and things to junior golfers. But otherwise… no, not really.
Should any golfer care about how another golfer on an adjacent fairway is dressed?
I question (in my own head) the use of jeans, simply because they're far and away NOT a great fabric for athletic endeavors, but otherwise… I don't really care. And I can't remember the last time I saw someone dressed in something completely inappropriately for that particular course.
I don't really care what other people are doing, so long as it doesn't actually affect me, my rights, my enjoyment. Why should I? Why do you (if you do)?
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"What is the appeal of playing alone?"
ummm...the playing.
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JK,
You should know full well by now the world is full of different strokes for different folks.
Some please like purely social rounds, others prefer single solitary rounds...and still others like both, like me.
Still curious why you think singles are killing the future of the game?
Because a great club brings people together. This modern notion of doing whatever you want however you want to do it is driving people apart.
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As one of the finest young teaching pros working today, do you ever instruct your students how to dress and conduct themselves on the course during competition? Do you believe that structure in appearance can lead to better scores?
I extoll the virtues of pants (keep your legs in the shade, less need to apply sunscreen to your legs, modern fabrics are still breathable), and occasionally mention dress codes and things to junior golfers. But otherwise… no, not really.
Should any golfer care about how another golfer on an adjacent fairway is dressed?
I question (in my own head) the use of jeans, simply because they're far and away NOT a great fabric for athletic endeavors, but otherwise… I don't really care. And I can't remember the last time I saw someone dressed in something completely inappropriately for that particular course.
I don't really care what other people are doing, so long as it doesn't actually affect me, my rights, my enjoyment. Why should I? Why do you (if you do)?
As a fat man myself I can not for the life of me understand why I am so offended by other fat men playing golf with their shirts untucked. It must be jealousy. The rules of most if not all clubs require that golfers keep their shirts tucked in so I feel obligated stay tucked despite knowing that a cool breeze is just a shirt pull away. The best I can figure is that I enjoy doing nice things and those things always seem more nice when the other people participating near you respect common decorum.
I doubt that I played a single round this year without seeing some tub-o untucked. I know when I went back and asked the playing partners of a particularly large man dressed in a bright orange untucked shirt if he was a human traffic barrier I was met with resistance. He defiantly remained untucked for the remainder of the day. It's the futility of it all that becomes offensive.
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I will admit one thing. People who are disrespecting the rules of a club always look like they are having a great time.
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I will admit one thing. People who are disrespecting the rules of a club always look like they are having a great time.
Probably because they're non-members schnorring a free round.
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JK,
You should know full well by now the world is full of different strokes for different folks.
Some please like purely social rounds, others prefer single solitary rounds...and still others like both, like me.
Still curious why you think singles are killing the future of the game?
Because a great club brings people together. This modern notion of doing whatever you want however you want to do it is driving people apart.
John,
Perhaps that's the disconnect...Franks original post mentioned nothing of clubs, which i will translate to mean privates. While I don't doubt your argument for private clubs, 80%+ of the courses here in the states are public..and playing alone or being paired up with another single is very much apart of the public experience.
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You mean Frank M.?
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Please don't play as a single. They are the dregs of golfing society. You paid for a range. Use it!!!
I love playing as single!
I am sincerely interested in why you love playing as a single. Is it your first choice when given the option of either playing alone or with friends? What goes through your mind as you play through slower groups of golfers? What is the appeal of playing alone?
Good question.
I am 44 and married with children. 1.3 handicap at the moment. I play about 90 rounds a year, mostly during the week and on golf trips, and I’d say I play about 70% of my golf as a true single. I’d say it’s a tie between golf with a friend or two and playing by myself under the right conditions.
I really enjoy the solitude of days when I have the course to myself. Just my clubs on my back and the golf course. That’s my vision of the purest form of golf. Played at Brora this year that way and it was one of my funnest rounds in memory. I’ve also played a fair amount of golf with just me and a caddie and that is awesome. Played Piping Rock for the first time on a weekday in May that way and it was so much fun.
I’d say about 20% of the time I end up playing solo. The rest are when I get paired up. My favorite pairing is probably 4 single golfers paired up all walking. Playing with fathers and sons is great too. Don’t mind playing through groups during the day when that works out.
I have half a dozen long time golf buddies Near home (DC) and that many scattered across the country. A lot of my non-solo golf is with one of them as a twosome. I also enjoy playing with my Dad a few times a year.
A couple of times a year I will end up playing by myself because there was no one to pair up with and the course is packed and slow. Those are the worst.
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90 rounds, 44, married with children. A rare bird indeed. Congrats.
I was in your shoes 14 years ago. Keep playing as much as you are even if you can't find a game. She can only miss you when you're gone. It's a beautiful thing having a family that wishes you were home. Enjoy that feeling while you can.
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Please don't play as a single. They are the dregs of golfing society. You paid for a range. Use it!!!
I love playing as single!
I am sincerely interested in why you love playing as a single. Is it your first choice when given the option of either playing alone or with friends? What goes through your mind as you play through slower groups of golfers? What is the appeal of playing alone?
There are several reasons I enjoy playing as a single:
The peacefulness of solitude on an early morning or late afternoon round.
Not having to worry about holding a group up. That also means being able to play more than one ball if I feel like it.
Not having to feel obligated to say positive stuff to anyone in hopes of cheering them up.
I am my own favorite person.
But the tee time I like best is my wife and me as a Two Ball. She is my second favorite person.
Ira
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1st wife?
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1st wife?
First and only.
Ira
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Very impressive.
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Keep the stories coming. I feel like I'm starting to gain an understanding of those strangers I have seen walking adjacent fairways alone all these years. It's not as sad as I thought.
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Keep the stories coming. I feel like I'm starting to gain an understanding of those strangers I have seen walking adjacent fairways alone all these years. It's not as sad as I thought.
I used to love playing as a single at the club where my wife and were members. Especially loved a few holes, or nine just before sundown.
There's a Zen quality to it. Lately I get it from bicycling. Somewhere around 20 miles in I feel as if everything is in sync.
But as has been said, my wife is my favorite playing companion. She's also my favorite partner in competition.
In fact 25 years ago I asked her if the Husband and Wife State Championship was a good enough reason to get married. She allowed as it was.
We were 46 years old, neither had ever been married. Still together.
She's the best partner I ever had.
K
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Well, I love GCA too and certainly have my own opinions.... but beyond that, I'm not really interested in ratings, rankings, or prestige all that much.
I suppose that is because my golf life has been fairly modest. I learned how to play at a muni, was a fairly mediocre player on a mediocre high school golf team, and have only won one tournament in my entire life playing off of what was probably an inflated handicap. I've never been the best player even in my own family.
I am married with young kids now and don't make a whole lot of money, so I only maybe play about 8-10 rounds a year these days. I buy name brand clubs but usually one or two models removed from the latest. I play 90% of my golf at Doak 2s or less... maybe twice a year I'll venture out to a place like Plum Creek or Riverdale.
I've been fortunate to get on a couple of nice private clubs and former tournament hosts courtesy of an older sibling who has had some assistant pro jobs at these places, but generally that only might happen once a season.
So I don't get very many chances to get out and play the great courses of the world very often, but when I do I obviously savor the moments the best that I can. But I also play golf rarely enough now that just being out there is usually enough for me... there is absolutely no better cure for stress or depression on earth. It's my personal vice, my source of well-being, my escape from reality.... my drug of choice, really.
I suppose because of that I have much lower standards than most posters here will have, simply because I'm limited. But I find that almost any course will do as long as it is designed and maintained to a reasonable level... even something most would consider bland and unmemorable is still okay as long as there is nothing stupid or gimmicky. I'm certainly no expert here, but I know what I like and also what I don't.
And sure, I'll admit myself and my usual partners (same older sibling as well as my father) sometimes play loose with the rules... but we play fast, we have a good time, and we treat each other right. Long ago I gave up delusions of ever being a great player, but I still have aspirations of shooting in the 60s one day.
I watch golf almost religiously for many of the same reasons.... it lowers my blood pressure and allows me to zen out and forget about life for awhile. I actually quite enjoy LPGA events almost as much as men's events.... I feel like my game is more relatable to theirs.
As far as architecture goes.... I once aspired to work in the GCA field at one time, but that never really went beyond college. I made some questionable educational choices and was intimidated quite a bit by the construction side of it. I've managed to find a really nice outlet in doing courses for computer games.
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I play as a single because most people won't keep up and the only thing worse than slow play is hearing about it.
For what it's worth John, I wouldn't mind at all your company on any of those otherwise solo rounds.
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John,
Think of it this way.
Some people like to go to the beach at dusk to build a fire and drink beers and mingle...while others like to go alone to watch the sunset with not a person in sight.
In my experience, there isn't much difference on the golf course...
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The difference is the beach will survive longer without people.
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The difference is the beach will survive longer without people.
Several people on social media have come to appreciate your dark charisma. I, among them.
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Jk,
Touche, and well said.
However, I suspect for guys like you with both the means and desire to play some of the best, there will always be options for you...
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I’ve been a golf course architecture fan my whole life, but I’ve struggled to find like-minded golfers who see the game the way I do and it has unfortunately taken away from my drive to play, as ultimately, I see golf as social.
Golf is in my mind a “rule-less” game. Sure, there are golf competitions, but other than taking a club and hitting the ball I don’t subscribe to any definition of golf beyond that...it’s for each individuals enjoyment however they see fit...would be my definition.
When it comes to golf courses, I love Top 100’s, Top 1000’s, bottom 100’s and bottom 5’s. That’s not to say I don’t recognize strong golf course architecutre, it’s just to say that I like the discovery of playing a new golf course no matter how good or “bad” it is.
The more I’ve played with GCA folks the more I’ve started to not want to play with them. They tend to get lost analyzing such trivial parts of a golf course and not only is it unejoyable to talk to them but also unenjoyable to play with them. Add to that how serious they take their games and it’s just a lost cause.
My partial rant over but the question remains... where are the golfers like me? That love GCA, don’t care about any rules, enjoy playing any new golf course, and enjoy the company of other good people?
I’m struggling to find any and I dread being thought of as a GCA type/fan and all the connotations that come with it.
P.S.
If you are offended by this post for some reason, don’t be. I don’t know you.
Interestingly, the more I play while appreciating the architecture, the worse I score. I have been giving some tours to guests, chatting about features and just walking and enjoying the course... and shanking.
I think the appreciation of the "playability" of the courses has caused me to become more casual.
That said, when it is a match situation, it has also forced me to think how to leverage the architectural opportunities based on my abilities (lack thereof). Either way, I enjoy both types of rounds more by caring just enough when it counts.