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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Ville Nurmi on August 29, 2018, 04:33:31 AM

Title: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Ville Nurmi on August 29, 2018, 04:33:31 AM

The open weekend was held again last weekend. Some really good golf played during saturday with winning score of 73. More than 120 participated in the open.
Also, for the first time, the stimp was measured. Should it be made public? Do you want to guess?
See you all next year!
Ville
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Adam Lawrence on August 29, 2018, 04:57:37 AM
Bearing in mind the contours on some of those greens, I hope to God they weren't too fast...
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Niall C on August 29, 2018, 07:13:40 AM
I'll bite. Without having seen the greens/contours, I'm going to guess 6-8. I base that on 10.5 being the preferred speed for the Open, and open week at Askernish isn't exactly the Open, plus the time and effort to get them any faster seems unlikely for a place like Askernish.

Niall (the non-greenkeeper)
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: jeffwarne on August 29, 2018, 09:39:40 AM
Disappointing or maybe enlightening to hear-depending upon what their purpose for announcing a stimp reading.
maybe they embrace a 7-as long as next year's goal isn't to get to 8!


The higher it gets the more great pins they lose, like everyone else.


I was overhearing an accomplished Senior player speaking about the "restoration" going on at his Golden age course.
He was talking about how the greens had "too much slope in them" like it was something that had crept in like thatch,nematodes or a green shrinking from mowing patterns.


Couldn't possibly be that the greens were just being maintained at stimps too high to allow the design of the greens to flourish.
Loved his misuse of the word "restoration"


Anyway, that same day as I walked off the first green on a different Golden age favorite after 3 putting due to leaving a very uphill 30 footer (struck solidly) 12 feet short I really appreciated how much SLOPE makes greens harder and more difficult to judge---not overall speed which minimizes the effect of slope(i.e. it's either taken out or avoided for pins on super fast greens)
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Thomas Dai on August 29, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
Sad if somewhere like Askernish is publishing a speed rating. Probably worse if they have a specific target number in mind. Kind of defeating the purpose of bringing the place back to life. What next a dozen human greenstaff and loads of machines and a big clubhouse (and fountains!)?
Atb
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Ville Nurmi on August 29, 2018, 12:11:09 PM
The speed was not measured, and I am quite certain, that they are not going to soften the greens. They are as quick as they get with the mowing and heights what they are.
The slopes are so big that not much speed is needed and as there is no arms race going in South-Uist, I trust that the speeds will stay appropriate.
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Niall C on August 29, 2018, 01:04:22 PM
Ville

I thought you said they took a stimp reading ?!   :D

Niall
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Kalen Braley on August 29, 2018, 01:06:52 PM

The open weekend was held again last weekend. Some really good golf played during saturday with winning score of 73. More than 120 participated in the open.
Also, for the first time, the stimp was measured. Should it be made public? Do you want to guess?
See you all next year!
Ville


Niall,


I saved off his original quote in case he tries to go back on it.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Niall C on August 29, 2018, 01:24:02 PM
Thanks Kalen, I think I'll change that emoji as it comes across as making me look angry, just disappointed. Over here we're generally blissfully free from stimp readings so I probably couldn't tell a 4 from 9, so I was looking forward to seeing how hopeless I was at guessing. Oh well never mind, maybe next year  ;D

Niall
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Jon Wiggett on August 29, 2018, 01:37:34 PM

Gentlemen,


stimp is not a measure of speed but rather the length a ball will roll out. The higher the stimp reading the slower the ball needs to roll.


Jon
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Kalen Braley on August 29, 2018, 01:43:11 PM

Gentlemen,


stimp is not a measure of speed but rather the length a ball will roll out. The higher the stimp reading the slower the ball needs to roll.


Jon


Jon,


Fair point, its really just another way of gauging the coefficient of friction at a prescribed initial velocity.


Either way, it was claimed this was measured in Stimp values, but apparently not.


P.S. Given the UK system is metric, wouldn't that be a blast if they measured in meters instead of feet.  Then you can brag about how great your greens are running at 3!  :D
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: jeffwarne on August 29, 2018, 01:45:20 PM

Gentlemen,


stimp is not a measure of speed but rather the length a ball will roll out. The higher the stimp reading the slower the ball needs to roll.


Jon


So members don't stand around and talk about how FAST their greens are, but rather how slowly the ball rolls....
--got it.


What you typed is 100% true, but hardly the conversation that takes place daily at clubs whose members measure their johnsons by their stimp reading.
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Mark Pearce on August 29, 2018, 02:09:00 PM
If it was more than 6 I'd be surprised.
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Ville Nurmi on August 29, 2018, 02:45:56 PM
 ;D
I meant to say, the speed was not published. I was told the distance the ball travelled when rolled from stimp iron 😀
I also heard that this was the first time it was measured ever. And it won't happen too quickly again as the club does not have the device as I understand it...
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Ville Nurmi on August 29, 2018, 02:48:48 PM
And the spread is there in Niall's post. So within that.
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Richard Fisher on August 30, 2018, 05:11:16 AM
Having played in one of the most remarkable games of my life with Ville at the weekend, I can safely say that Askernish green speeds are not (remotely) the biggest issue impacting playability. I thought that the greens for this year's Askernish Open were bang on the money, given the slopes and borrows. But even when (relatively) light after this year's dry summer, the machair rough only just off the fairways remains a massive hazard, as do the plethora of rabbit burrows in the middle of (e.g.) the 5th and 12th fairways. One of our partners lost nine balls in eighteen holes, which for a ten handicap golfer with lots of seaside experience suggests an unusual degree of difficulty, even allowing for the 3-club wind.
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Jon Wiggett on August 30, 2018, 05:21:07 AM

Gentlemen,


stimp is not a measure of speed but rather the length a ball will roll out. The higher the stimp reading the slower the ball needs to roll.


Jon


So members don't stand around and talk about how FAST their greens are, but rather how slowly the ball rolls....
--got it.


What you typed is 100% true, but hardly the conversation that takes place daily at clubs whose members measure their johnsons by their stimp reading.



Of course they do Jeff but that still makes what they are saying basically crap. I would also have hoped that on a website such as this there might be some capable of discussing what makes for a good playing surface but alas it seems not.


The biggest misnomer in such conversation is that stimp readings are perceived as a measurement of quality of the green which it is clearly not. What should be of importance is trueness of result but I guess that is a concept too difficult for most to get their heads around.


Ville,


I am sorry I ignored your question at the start. Who cares if they do publish the stimp reading as it is irrelevant to the quality of the course.
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Ville Nurmi on August 30, 2018, 05:26:41 AM

Richard,
it was indeed a pleasure. Only thing missing from your experience was the sea :)


Jon,
agree 100%. The greens were once again perfect and the course is really good.
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Mark Chaplin on August 30, 2018, 05:54:13 AM
Kalen itís news to me our system is metric, I bow to your greater knowledge.
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Duncan Cheslett on August 30, 2018, 07:59:15 AM
Kalen itís news to me our system is metric, I bow to your greater knowledge.


Beat me to it Mark.


For the last 50 years or so we have enjoyed a mish-mash of imperial and metric systems. A person's height is measured in feet and inches - never metres - and their weight in stones and pounds. We buy petrol in litres but beer in pints. Our speed and distances are in miles but our delicatessen goods sold in grammes.


As a cabinet maker, I use millimetres in my calculations but feet and inches in my conversation.


Golf holes are in yards and stimp readings most definitely in feet.  ;D
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Niall C on August 30, 2018, 11:47:26 AM
Ville/Richard

Interesting comments on the rough. I remember they used to say the same about Mach Dunes when it opened. I played it a few years after and it was very playable with decent width and shortish rough. I wonder whether Askernish will go that way and indeed what's stopping them ? Is it lack of funds or are there environmental reasons ?

Niall
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Adam Lawrence on August 30, 2018, 11:58:19 AM
Ville/Richard

Interesting comments on the rough. I remember they used to say the same about Mach Dunes when it opened. I played it a few years after and it was very playable with decent width and shortish rough. I wonder whether Askernish will go that way and indeed what's stopping them ? Is it lack of funds or are there environmental reasons ?

Niall


Machrihanish Dunes uses sheep. Ironically there are sheep AND cattle on the dunes at Askernish during the winter, but they are taken off and moved to hill grazing during the spring and summer.


I asked Gordon Irvine why they didn't ask the crofters to leave their stock on the links year round, but it relates to winter fodder levels -- they want as much grazing as possible to see the animals through the winter. This is also why the grass cutting at Askernish is very limited.
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Thomas Dai on August 30, 2018, 12:19:14 PM
Protected ground nesting birds in the spring/summer probably have something to do with the grass length. One species of which is I believe the Askernish clubs logo.

Atb
Title: Re: Green speeds at Askernish
Post by: Kalen Braley on August 30, 2018, 12:20:41 PM
Gents,


I gladly stand corrected on the Metric thing.  I guess not everything you learn in Elementary school is correct!  ;)