Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on June 02, 2016, 06:34:21 PM
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Picturesque Woodhall Spa was flooded with serviceman during WWII and is probably most well known as base of operations for RAF 617 Squadron. The squadron was created with its main task of attacking three dams in the industrial Ruhr region of Germany in Operation Chastise, hence the nickname of the outfit was Dam Busters. Only two of the dams were breached during the operation, but that was enough to cause horrific flooding of the Ruhr Valley and considered to be a highly successful mission. Of course, the Germans were well aware of Woodhall Spa as a base of operations. Three months after Operation Chastise Woodhall Spa was hit by a parachute mine destroying most of the Royal Square which included the Victorian Royal Hydro Hotel and the Winter Gardens. Luckily only two civilians were killed. What remains of the hotel became The Mall, a rather large pub.
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The remainder of the site was used to erect the Dam Buster Memorial.
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In a place like Woodhall Spa it would be unimaginable for there to be no Conservative Club.
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Purchased for a reported hefty sum in 1995, Woodhall Spa is now the headquarters for England Golf. Long considered one of the top inland courses in the UK, Woodhall enjoys an immense reputation as one of the toughest and best bunkered courses in the land. It is reputed that one or two of the bunkers are deep enough to house a double decker bus! However fierce the bunkers may be, there can be no doubt of their attractive nature and how well they tie the heather, broom and birch wings into the overall design. Darwin was very taken by the bunkers and wrote in Country Life (1927), "The sand is fine and there is an unlimited quantity of it, with the result that the bunkers are on a seaside and magnificent scale. What impressed me most of all was that this course beautifully natural, is, in a sense, completely artificial."
Set in deepest Lincolnshire, beyond the famed Fens, Woodhall takes some getting to, but most people consider the trip well worth while. Originally designed by Harry Vardon and bunkered by JH Taylor while both were still near the top of the game, Woodhall opened for play in 1905. Stafford Vere Hotchkin not only offered the land at a reasonable yearly rent, but also provided significant financial support for the fledgling club until assuming full responsibility for the course in December 1919. Vardon's canvas would soon see alterations and in 1911 Colt suggested recommendations involving all 18 holes. It is clear the present out and back routing is Colt's. Colt also incorporated new holes into the design and the devestating nature of the bunkers began to take shape. Although, it was Hotchkin who is most responsible for the awesome size and depth of the bunkers. After Hotchkin's death, his son Neil, broke up many bunkers and dug some deeper still. Unfortunately, trees were also to flourish under Neil's management. By the summer of 1914 the Colt changes were complete.
The next phase of change came not long after Hotchkin assumed responsibility for the course. Having worked closely with Vardon, Colt and a few visiting professionals, Hotchkin tackled the task of creating the demanding test he envisioned. Let us not forget that Hotchkin was no mere dabbler in design. He was later to be a member of a successful partnership with CK Hutchison and G Campbell. In 1922 (and continuing well into the 1950s) Hotchkin worked on the principles below:
1. To create a course more penal in nature (which Woodhall Spa is to this day)
2. Create true bunker hazards through depth
3. Relocate greens
4. Keep the course sympathetic to its natural surrounding
5. Create testing green entrances
The biggest changes to the course from the 1950s onward was the encroachment of trees, gorse and heather. Views across the course in the 30s and prior were quite extensive whereas Woodhall Spa became quite congested until the recent tree removal by Renaissance Design. Additionally, despite the multitude of bunkers today, the actual number has been significantly reduced from a peak of approximately 160 to 125 after the Renaissance work. One might correctly assume that with a penal design philosophy at its core, Woodhall would make a good venue for high level events. Scores of men's and ladies events have taken place at Woodhall, but the pride of place must be the four times The Brabazon Trophy and six times the English Amateur has been contested at Woodhall. I can only assume the Brabazon Trophy is due to be held at Woodhall sometime in the near future. The 1967 English Amateur victory by Michael Bonallock helped create one of the most impressive amateur records in golf history; a smattering of Lytham and Berkshire Trophy wins, four Brabazon Trophies, five English Amateur victories, five Open Amateur titles and 9 Walker Cup appearances...including Captaining the side in 1969 and 1971.
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#1...a shortish straight-away par 4...innocent enough.
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Approach, before and after Renaissance work.
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Another straight hole, but at 401 yards the 2nd is much longer than the first. The drive zone on the second was considerably narrowed with the introduction of a large bunker down the right in the 1970s..since split into two pits. Viewing the left bunker, it is clear the bunker profile of the new work is important.
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Another bunker up the left.
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Still heading away from the house, the third is a long, difficult hole with an obscured tee shot. A large carry bunker was removed in the 1970s. The large bunker short and right of the green was once one mammoth pit reduced split in the 1990s, but now it looks to be one larger bunker. Below is the approach after a poor drive right.
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As is evident, the drive zone is tight. Most of the round will require the same decision-making of threading a needle or laying back. The gulley feeding the bunker is the sort of feature that is often forgotten at Woodhall.
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A look at the raised green tucked beyond a dip in the fairway. With a hole located on the front of the green the only way for handicap players to get close is to bump into the dip.
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The excellent fourth turns back on the previous three and bends a bit left.
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The fairly short par 3 fifth requires a very precise iron to a diagonal green. A version of pot bunkers left of the green. An issue with not filling the entire pit with sand is some horrible downhill lies can be had if the grass isn't cut fairly short.
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More to follow.
Ciao
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I was privileged to play the Hotchkin course with Richard Latham who is GM at the national golf centre. He is as knowledgeable about the course as anyone and a delight to speak with. He wrote an excellent book about the evolution of the course. I know that the course is difficult but if you can stay out of the bunkers it is an exciting course and thrilling to play.
http://www.richardlathamgolfbooks.com/books (http://www.richardlathamgolfbooks.com/books)
Photo thread I did years ago.
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Sean, great write-up, and I look forward to reading more. Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin) is one of my favourite courses in England that I have played, and would put it right up there with other inland supremes.
Question: I know Tom Doak will be doing some work to the course, does anyone know what he will be looking at? Is it restoring some of the bunker depth / shape?
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I’m pleased to have been there but really not that wowed.
Lovely to look at and amazingly huge PITS, that sit well on the generous frame. But interactions quickly become repetitive. Plus there’s been a lot of work done and all of it has been to take character out of what for me should be the main attractions. Vies with Hankley for the title of UK Dumb Blonde Miss.
A long way to go when there’s more interesting options hanging out together all over these islands.
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Richard has done a ton of research into Woodhall's history and has proved beyond doubt that the famous bunkers as we know them were the creation of Neil Hotchkin, the Colonel's son, who owned the course until he sold it to the EGU in 1995.
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Spangles, I understand your reticence concerning Woodhall.
Tim...I hope Doak restores some of the larger bunkers by combining smaller ones. In particular, the corner bunker on 7 is crying out for restoration.
WOODHALL SPA TOUR CONT
The 6th is interesting from a card philosophy perspective. This par 4 is one of two which are listed as par 5s from the back tees; the 18th is the other. As the Hotchkin family prided themselves in building a tough test for amateurs, I am somewhat surprised these two holes aren't played from the daily tees as long par 4s, thus reducing the course par from 73 to 71. Whatever one's opinion on this issue, at 464 yards the 6th is a tough nut to crack. As with nearly every hole, the fairway has been narrowed and bunker size reduced, the effect is this may play a bit easier than in the past....thank heaven!
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A no prisoners approach to design. The green is protected by two forward bunkers so most golfers will have to run the gaunlet to reach the green in two...it may be wise to lay-up. The green is subtle, but runs dangerously away from play on the right. I did take care to pay special attention to the greens after T Doak stated there is more than meets the eye. I must admit that the greens are better than I previously thought.
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The 7th is an excellent hole swinging well right. The inside line has been much improved with recent bunker work and tree removal. However, I wonder if this is a good opportunity to slam a huge bunker on the corner? It seems to me that if a course is primarily known for its bunkers, and Woodhall Spa rightfully is, why not do all possible to enhance this reputation with a visual representation of Dante's Inferno? Before and after the Renaissance work.
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The approach after a pushed drive.
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The long one-shot 8th turns back on the previous hole and heads west. One might have thought that after two big par 4s it was time for a break, but that wouldn't be the Woodhall Spa way. Regardless of the rhythm of the round, these holes are top notch and a primer on how to create interest from land which is essentially flat. Below is a 1935 aerial of the 8th.
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This closer look at the 8th green.
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Woodhall does have some Victorian mounding features which are highly attractive.
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Running east, the 9th is comfortably the best par 5 on the course. If playing downwind some players may be concerned by the broken fairway, but unless played into the wind, this hole should seem like a break after the onslaught of 6 through 8.
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One of the more interesting greens on the course, this hole location is particularly difficult.
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The lovely and surprisingly difficult 10th takes us to the far eastern end of the property and is the first of three short par 4s on the back nine. The green is elegantly tucked into a corner of the property, a design trait I very much admire. Despite the card telling us the two nines are very balanced in terms of yardage, most will feel the back nine plays much shorter and requires more obvious tactics regarding how to tackle the less expansive holes.
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Back to hard graft on the 11th. Another 400+ yard two-shotter, one of Woodhall's seven. Part of a 130 mile footpath, the Viking Way cuts through holes 11, 12, 13 & 15. The counties of Lincolnshire, Humberside and Leicestershire adopted the footpath named so because Danes occupied the area around 800AD. The fairway is bisected by earthworks. The false front dome like green is also of interest.
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We are now set up for stunning set piece in the 12th, the final par three of an outstanding set. More straight-forward than the 5th, yet pure joy to behold let alone play. Strange that very few people mention Woodhall's threes as among the best sets in the country. During a club knockout match in 1982 this hole was halved in one! Before & after.
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The thirteenth commences the long road home. Despite a few good holes, it is fair to say the course isn't quite as interesting from this point forward. I believe the main reasons for this are threefold.
1. The necessary similarity of penal design holes, in the case of Woodhall, the relentess left/right/cross bunkering with heavy rough.
2. The uneven rhythm of the course. The front nine is loaded with tough par 4s, the back nine with more concise 4s and a lack of par 3s to even out the mismatch.
3. Holes 14-16 and much of 17 are on the part of the property which is clay base. These holes suffer in comparison to the other holes where drainage is concerned.
I admired the stark bunkering prior to the renovation. While the bunkers are now more conventional, they are better integrated into surrounding texture of the property without suffering from being dumbed down in terms of difficulty. Below is the right fairway bunker looking back to the tee.
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It seems to me that the long 14th is not in character with the remainder of the course. It feels more like parkland. A short and thrilling two-shotter, 15 moves right between bunkers then confronts the golfers with islands of sand, cutting off the ground approach to a slippery fall-away green. The new bunkering is a vast improvement. Before and after.
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The tree clearance for the final three holes is striking, especially the 17th. The 16th is growing on me! The earthworks short of the green are a welcome change to bunkers defending the putting surface.
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The approach to the raised 17th green is now much more evident without tree congestion. There is more fairway right than it looks from the tee, but its easy to stray too far right as the fairway leans that way.
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The home hole is a monster par 4 featuring loads of sand for the tee shot. The green moves away from play making for a difficult decision as to where to land the approach.
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That then is Woodhall Spa, much maligned in recent years on this site. I think most fail to read this course on its own terms as a purposely penal design and therefore all the baggage that comes with penal architecture. There can be no question Hotchkin succeeded magnificently in creating a beautiful course which blends perfectly into the surrounds and offers a stern challenge for amateurs. The front nine stands as tall as most any nine in the British Isles and for this reason alone it makes perfect sense to make the journey ascross the Fens. The recent Renaissance renovation has unquestionably improved the course by highlighting the design features with the elimination of trees. Woodhall Spa now takes its rightful place among the best inland courses northern England has to offer. 2022
Ciao
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Sean - Thanks for posting. Can't get enough of Woodhall Spa, there is something magical about the place in my view. I put it up there with Sunningdale in terms of fabulous heathland courses. Agree with you completely, among the best set of par threes in the game. I didn't know that Colt was involved in the routing. John
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I’m pleased to have been there but really not that wowed.
Lovely to look at and amazingly huge PITS, that sit well on the generous frame. But interactions quickly become repetitive. Plus there’s been a lot of work done and all of it has been to take character out of what for me should be the main attractions. Vies with Hankley for the title of UK Dumb Blonde Miss.
A long way to go when there’s more interesting options hanging out together all over these islands.
I think I agree with every word of this, Tony. Exactly how I feel (about both courses!)
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Sean - Thanks for posting. Can't get enough of Woodhall Spa, there is something magical about the place in my view. I put it up there with Sunningdale in terms of fabulous heathland courses. Agree with you completely, among the best set of par threes in the game. I didn't know that Colt was involved in the routing. John
Woodhall is lovely but you must not care much about greens if you think it's up with Sunningdale. They must be the flattest set of greens on any world-ranked course.
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Sean - Thanks for posting. Can't get enough of Woodhall Spa, there is something magical about the place in my view. I put it up there with Sunningdale in terms of fabulous heathland courses. Agree with you completely, among the best set of par threes in the game. I didn't know that Colt was involved in the routing. John
While very distinctive, the course lacks variety and perhaps if the greens were more interesting I could more easily ignore the lack of tee to green variety. I still think Woodhall Spa is an excellent partner with Seacroft as the two make an interesting study in moorland/links architecture.
Another interesting contrast in bunker styles is with Little Aston. Like Woodhall, LA has loads of bunkers, but many more than at Woodhall are provacatively placed.
Ciao
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Thanks for the tour Sean.
I'm curious as to exactly how much work Harry Colt was 'allowed' to do at Woodhall Spa as comments akin to flattish greens without much interest is not what you expect to hear of a course with a Colt involvement.
Although the thread ended up being more about Pennard and synthetic bunker faces there are some comments from Tom Doak here about the work envisaged at Woodhall Spa -
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,62493.0.html
And also here - http://www.golfcoursearchitecture.net/content/tom-doak-to-advise-on-national-golf-centre-development-plan
Atb
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I suspect that if the greens had much more slope folks would complain that the course was hard enough why make the greens difficult? I found it nice that recovery from the bunkers was easier because I could make some longer putts.
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Tommy
I reckon that if the fairways had more movement and/or the greens more interest I could more easily overlook the more penal nature of the design. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind penal architecture, but I reckon that style makes it harder to create 18 hole interest.
Lets hope Doak can convince the club to push the fairways out, push back the rough, cut some trees and create more shape to the short grass.
Ciao
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Lets hope Doak can convince the club to push the fairways out, push back the rough, cut some trees and create more shape to the short grass.
Most of these are on my list, especially trees. They've already started changing the shapes of the greens, too ... I found many places where hole locations could get more behind the bunkers or fall off into trouble at the back.
The greens are not undulating, but they are not as flat as advertised here. I guess some ARE flat, in the sense that they aren't built up at the back much to help hold a shot on the green ... in fact quite a few fall away slightly at the back.
One thing I was asked to consider was moving the tee at the 5th over to the alternate right-hand tee, because the current tee on the left is such a dangerous spot ... you can be hit by approaches at the 2nd and/or the 4th. If we do remove that tee, I think we'll have to make a bit of changes to the 5th green and take out some of the bunker at the back left, but it looked like we could make an appealing diagonal shot into the green which would give it a different character than the other short holes.
The main reason we were hired, though, is to rebuild the bunkers so they can be maintained more easily. Many of them were dug deeper 20-30 years ago without any consideration of maintenance, and the faces are so steep and sand-splashed that the grass struggles to survive. Re-combining some of the smaller bunkers into bigger ones will help that.
One other note of historical interest ... Richard Latham was informed by an old RAF guy from the nearby air base that the cross bunker in the approach on #8 is actually the result of a bomb being unstuck from the bomb bay just before one of their planes landed back at home.
We will do our first bit of work there in November and December, probably on the holes at the far end of the course [9-12 or a couple more].
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As a matter of interest Richard just this week won the English Seniors' championship for the second time.
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These kind of debates are always interesting. I think Woodhall would be a far more enjoyable game of golf if the fairways were pushed out 15 yards on average without moving bunkers except to re-combine smaller pits into larger pits and trees removed.
I have never been to Pine Valley, but I always imagine that for the most part they get it right for penal design. Pretty wide fairways which can't be missed. Woodhall's are at best average width (I would say in the 30 yard range) which can't be missed.
Ciao
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Sean,
What did you think of the approach carries over heather on certain holes (11, and a bit on 16)? I quite like this as it adds visual interest to the hole, and means mishit approaches are penalised, but not in the same way as a pond for example. I am also thinking of the approach on the 6th of the Old Course at Sunningdale.
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Personally, penal carries which are well short of the green and leave kick in room are probably my favourite type of penal hazard...13 is a good example of the type. This is one aspect of Woodhall which is not fully exploited because the fairways aren't wide enough to allow for carrying some of the wing bunkers short of greens. If 15 yards were added to the fairways, the bunker scheme would be a very different animal.
Ciao
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Where Woodhall Spa does win is in being a great place for a group golf trip, it's a small town and you can walk everywhere. There's enough watering and feeding venues to keep a group amused for 3 days. The secret is to negotiate 3 rounds on the old course and ignore the other one.
Looking forward to seeing how modern techniques and ideas can improve a heathland classic.
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One other note of historical interest ... Richard Latham was informed by an old RAF guy from the nearby air base that the cross bunker in the approach on #8 is actually the result of a bomb being unstuck from the bomb bay just before one of their planes landed back at home.
The famous WWII RAF Dambusters squadron was apparently based at Woodhall Spa airfield and One of the hotels in town was the Officers quarters.
Atb
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The Dambusters Officers Mess was in the Petwood Hotel at the end of the war....its a very cool bar now. Next door is an attractive snooker room.
I am in Chapper's camp. Woodhall Is a favourable place to stay for a few nights.
Ciao
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Thanks for the tour Sean,
617 Squadron "The Dambusters" started at Scampton for their most famous mission, before moving to Coningsby, then Woodhall Spa towards the end of the war. As Sean says the bar at the Petwood was the officers mess by this time, but before that they would often head into Nottingham and the Black Boy pub (now demolished) was a favourite if I recall correctly. Anyone visiting Woodhall should look for the memorial in the village centre.
I played in our club match (at our place this time) against Woodhall Spa this weekend just gone and the members I spoke to are excited about the work to be done.
I look forward to seeing the work, as I still have mixed feelings about the Hotchkin course. I love the setting but feel much of its reputation comes from the challenge, and when I've been lucky to play from the white's thats certainly the case. But I've also now played a few times from the yellow tees or the winter tees which most visitors are asked to play from and the challenge just isnt as great from there, with much of the back nine feeling like a fairway wood followed by a short iron, and repeat... Which certainly isnt the case from the tees further back!
Cheers,
James
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The main reason we were hired, though, is to rebuild the bunkers so they can be maintained more easily. Many of them were dug deeper 20-30 years ago without any consideration of maintenance, and the faces are so steep and sand-splashed that the grass struggles to survive. Re-combining some of the smaller bunkers into bigger ones will help that.
Tom,
it will be interesting to see what you do with the course and if you are able to elevate the quality of the holes from the 13th inwards to match the holes preceding them. As to the bunkers, I cannot say if the bunkers have been made any deeper since I last played there some 25 years ago though I would be surprised as many were already very deep at that time. I would be surprised if the problem is the steepness as they were vertical and pristine when I played. I would imagine the fact that 2-stroke flymos are now not allowed might be more relevant coupled with the fact that few clubs have cottened onto the advantages of electric flymos over the 4-stroke variety. Having said that I am sure the HGK is best informed.
Jon
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The main reason we were hired, though, is to rebuild the bunkers so they can be maintained more easily. Many of them were dug deeper 20-30 years ago without any consideration of maintenance, and the faces are so steep and sand-splashed that the grass struggles to survive. Re-combining some of the smaller bunkers into bigger ones will help that.
Tom,
it will be interesting to see what you do with the course and if you are able to elevate the quality of the holes from the 13th inwards to match the holes preceding them. As to the bunkers, I cannot say if the bunkers have been made any deeper since I last played there some 25 years ago though I would be surprised as many were already very deep at that time. I would be surprised if the problem is the steepness as they were vertical and pristine when I played. I would imagine the fact that 2-stroke flymos are now not allowed might be more relevant coupled with the fact that few clubs have cottened onto the advantages of electric flymos over the 4-stroke variety. Having said that I am sure the HGK is best informed.
Jon
Tom
Does the club think the bunkers walls will collapse?
Ciao
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Does the club think the bunkers walls will collapse?
Collapse is not the right word, although there are a couple on the verge of it. But there are a dozen more that don't have much grass on them at all due to sand splash, so that balls can easily lodge in the face of the bunker ... causing golfers to try to take a stance on the face, which compounds the problem. In some cases a partial sod wall would help, but that's not the style of Woodhall Spa, and many of the faces are just too big for sod walls to be practical.
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Isn't the face of a bunker like at Woodhall considered through the green and if plugged one gets a free drop (or is that strictly for revetted bunkers)? I am not following why bare faces is such a worry if the walls are not in danger of collapsing.
Ciao
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Correct Sean, it is through the green. I wonder why they have the problem with the faces now as they did not in the past.
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Recently I had the pleasure of a couple of rounds on the revised Hotchkin course at Woodhall Spa.
The more open aspect nature of the course following the tree and scrub removal is terrific as is the opening-up of the sandy areas, the revised bunkering and other tweaks and changes. Well done to all the guys and gals at Renaissance Golf and the Woodhall Spa greenstaff who participated in the work.
As to the courses playability, it was particularly enjoyable to play a course where angles (and thus strategy) are once again important. An aspect of the game that unfortunately seems to have been lost over the last few decades.
Now the Hotchkin course is laid out over a generally pretty flat area of terrain so photos taken from the ground may not show that much. Nevertheless in an attempt to indicate how the course now looks in relation to many decades ago here are some photos deliberately converted into b&w (ie how the course would once have been seen/photo'd many decades ago).
atb
Below - looking towards the green from in front of the cross bunkers on the 9th fairway
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGsAOLyXUAAS_Qc?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Below - from 40 or so yards short of the green on the par-3 12th
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGsAOLrX4AEhQaA?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Below - from front-right of the short par-4 15th
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGsAOLvX0AcuKBi?format=jpg&name=360x360)
Below - a general view from in front of the 16th tee across the 6th green
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGsAOLrW4AEvz-p?format=jpg&name=360x360)
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I hadn't played the old layout, but still felt the layout was demanding. Guys I played with pointed out how many trees and where they took them out and I could only imagine how many fireplaces that wood would have fueled. Lovely setting and remote location adds to the charm. I thought some of the greens were pretty small as well, not sure if those were reclaimed to that size but if so they must have really shrunk.
One odd thing about the course is that they don't offer rental clubs. My clubs were in a van that got delayed 2 hours from us arriving ahead of it and since they didn't have rental clubs one of our caddies allowed me to use his clubs during the round.
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One odd thing about the course is that they don't offer rental clubs. My clubs were in a van that got delayed 2 hours from us arriving ahead of it and since they didn't have rental clubs one of our caddies allowed me to use his clubs during the round.
Over the years I have encountered this at several private clubs. In fact my two clubs don't have rental clubs. If pressed they put together a demo set.
The solution used by some clubs is to have members who have pre-authorized that their clubs can be used by visitors. The club charges a fee which goes to the member. I have encountered some really bizarre sets this way. That said, I think I played my best round on one trip at Kennemer with such a set. Half men's and half women's Srixon clubs. The member got 30 Euros. When I saw the clubs, I felt like he should have paid me to play them. Not so much when I finished. All in all, not worth the risk. That's why I ship clubs on all most every trip.
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Thanks, Sean.
Surprised I missed this the first time.
While for me Par 4s are indeed the heart of golf, Par 3s can sometimes come close — if like the 12th here they feature a raised tabletop green with a deep bunker short left.
I’m not sure what appeals to me more in this sublime simplicity, the sublime or the simplicity. I think the latter.
And if Woodhall Spa is an example of penal architecture (and I believe/defer to you that it is), then ‘penal’ has gotten a bad name in the ensuing decades — probably because Americans tend to over-do everything :)
P
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No slight intended folks but the Hotchkin course at Woodhall Spa is a historic and significant course with some damn fine work done recently by a high profile architect and regular contributor herein and yet comments made are about rental clubs. Jeez!
Atb
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Thomas - I get where you are coming from but I did find this of interest. As someone with limited golf travel to England and the continent this was not something I had heard before. Traveling for private clubs that don’t cater as readily to the masses obviously comes with distinct concerns.
In my 5 golfing trips overseas with clubs I’m batting 80% and n my clubs arriving with me. Thankfully I was planning on not playing for a few days upon arrival that trip.
Woodhall Spa specifically, and inland courses in England generally interest me. Hopefully I get there sooner rather than later.
No slight intended folks but the Hotchkin course at Woodhall Spa is a historic and significant course with some damn fine work done recently by a high profile architect and regular contributor herein and yet comments made are about rental clubs. Jeez!
Atb
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I've played the Hotchkin at Woodhall a couple of times this year and the work that has been done is very very good.
The one thing which still amazes me, is the difference between the yellow and the white tees? By that I mean how much easier the yellow tees feel compared to the whites?
Whites, 6,921yds, par 73, sss 74
Yellows, 6,519yds, par 71, sss 73
The 6th and 18th change from par 5s to long par 4s on the card, but at times the back nine feels like fairway wood, short iron, repeat, when played from the yellow tees. Its weird because the yellow sss is 2 over par rather than 1 on whites? Perhaps I've been lucky to play a regular club match against them so thats why I've played off the whites quite a bit? But for anyone else who has played both, what do you think?
The deep bunkers have always been the defence at Woodhall. Is it simply because the shorter course means shorter iron approach shots which are (supposedly) more likely to find the green?
Cheers,
James
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Your quite correct James. There is a significant difference between the yellows and the whites but at 6,500 yds the yellows are more than enough (maybe by quite a bit) for the vast majority of realistic men (ie not the ego brigade) especially given the forced-carry distance needed to carry to the fairways over the heather on many holes, the more so into a wind. And there are back tees at 7,080 yds.
I did notice a few new tees being built on the course, although whether ladies or forward men’s I’m not sure.
One aspect I particularly liked about the Hotchkin is that there are small forward tees located on the fairway side of the heather which makes the course playable for much shorter hitters. Not much more dispiriting than hitting your best tee shot and not being able to reach the fairway.
Atb
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Boony,
No mention of how easy the 14th was for you?? Nice EAGLE by the way! - plus the bunkers are still easy for me to get out of!
Having played at Woodhall a number of times in the last 25 or so years and 5 years since I last played it pre Doak changes plus being on site two years ago when Clyde Johnson, Angela Moser, Eric Iverson and Brian Schneider were working on it.
For me it is a completely different course to the one that i was accustomed to. It has opened up due to the huge tree removal programme meaning that target points on the drives have changed and there is very little first cut rough now meaning wider fairways and less rough to stop the ball running into the heather.
Is it better or worse? it is better from a vista standpoint as some holes are easier to see off the tee, more regeneration of the heather due to the removal of trees that don't really belong, course is now more playable for more golfers. I feel it has lost a bit of its bite as a penal course however it looks more pleasing these days.
There are a few areas still not resolved like the wet area near the 15th tee which can be like a swamp in the winter, plus the ground in the rough between 10 + 11 was so uneven and there were temporary tee distance markers.
Cheers
Ben
I've played the Hotchkin at Woodhall a couple of times this year and the work that has been done is very very good.
The one thing which still amazes me, is the difference between the yellow and the white tees? By that I mean how much easier the yellow tees feel compared to the whites?
Whites, 6,921yds, par 73, sss 74
Yellows, 6,519yds, par 71, sss 73
The 6th and 18th change from par 5s to long par 4s on the card, but at times the back nine feels like fairway wood, short iron, repeat, when played from the yellow tees. Its weird because the yellow sss is 2 over par rather than 1 on whites? Perhaps I've been lucky to play a regular club match against them so thats why I've played off the whites quite a bit? But for anyone else who has played both, what do you think?
The deep bunkers have always been the defence at Woodhall. Is it simply because the shorter course means shorter iron approach shots which are (supposedly) more likely to find the green?
Cheers,
James
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Ben:
I'm curious how you think the course has lost any of its bite. We added about 15 bunkers and the main point of widening the fairways was to let balls run to the heather. I suppose clearing back trees on a few holes has made recovering for a bogey easier, and you shouldn't get as many gnarly lies on bunker faces, but that was the goal of the whole exercise.
We couldn't teally make the bunkers any deeper on 14, there's not much sand down there before you reach clay.
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Tom,
There are a number of factors why I think it has lost its bite for me. The main ones are:
Removal of trees - for makes the tee shots generally less intimidating - I don't have real issues getting out of heather however if trees are in the way its an issue. Number of examples are:
Hole 1 - Off the tee hitting left was not the ideal opening shot however the trees removed and replaced by bunkers has made it easier and the trees surrounding the green at the rear used to be more intimidating for the player not to hit the ball too long now it is more playable from the rear
Hole 2 - the chute from the tee has now disappeared and opened up the vista making the fairway bunkers more visible however it makes the fairway looks wider
Hole 4 - Any hooks were punished now its mostly heather which is more of a hit or miss in terms of the lie however there is more chance to hit the green
Holes 6, 7, 8 and 9 - Looks so much wider and less intimidating
Hole 13 - used to be the hardest driving hole on the course however with the tree removal on the right it has made the hole more forgiving of the tee even though bunker have been restored here
Holes 14, 15, 16 and 17 - used to be tight now it is all opened up so again less intimidating off the tee.
Hole 18 - feels shorter from the back tee as a number of large trees at the corner have gone and replaced by bunkers.
Bunkers - The access to the bunkers are more sensible from a health and safety standpoint which in other ways makes it less intimidating compared to going down a ladder or small steps on steep banks.
Some bunkers have been pulled away from the green allowing for easier maintenance and access to entrance to greens feels wider so some greens feel less tight.
Widening the fairway - I do understand the reasoning of this to try and get the ball into the heather however it makes more drives go further as long as they don't get in the heather
Playing angles - 5th hole tees now moved to the right hand side of the 4th green i think has increased the width of the green than playing off the old tee on the left hand side of the 4th green which made it look narrow.
The current state of golf - Woodhall has not been lengthened for a long while and when I first played it it was a shade over 6900 yards in the 1990s and that was long. At 7080 yards (early 2000s) of the tips and 6500 off the yellows it doesn't feel as long as it used to be thanks to the ball and the large headed drivers.
I am for tree removal if the playing surface and natural environment will be improved, sensible access to bunkers from a health and safety standpoint which is the case at Woodhall which is now a more forgiving and fairer golf course in general.
However for Woodhall to get its bite back as a championship course I feel that some holes need to be lengthened and tightened up to bring the intimidatory factor back like the drives on 6, 9, 11 and 13 feels like it needs more hazards nearer the centre line - bunker or a grassy hollow with heather faces etc. Hole 14 is intimidating off the tee with all the heather as an example. Golf courses evolve over time and I feel that a few minor tweaks are still required at Woodhall. This is just a personal opinion having played it numerous times over the last 25 years - others may be different.
Also the Bracken course needs reworking IMO and I am wondering will Renaissance Golf be working on it in the near future?
Ben
Ben:
I'm curious how you think the course has lost any of its bite. We added about 15 bunkers and the main point of widening the fairways was to let balls run to the heather. I suppose clearing back trees on a few holes has made recovering for a bogey easier, and you shouldn't get as many gnarly lies on bunker faces, but that was the goal of the whole exercise.
We couldn't teally make the bunkers any deeper on 14, there's not much sand down there before you reach clay.
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Prior to Tom Doak doing his work at Woodhall Spa we had a discussion about the calibre of golf course it was.
It has always been one of my absolute favourites over a 30 year span of playing, Tom at the time considered the greens a little ordinary......but then what set of greens are not compared to his work and those of his “idol” the Good DR.
I have always loved the superb bunkering and green complexes and cannot wait to return to see Tom’s finished product, probably next summer.
Friends of mine back home who have played it evenly have raved about the ‘restoration” and especially the beauty of the course with less trees.They are all pretty good players and would have played the back tees and they all said...TOUGH
I also look forward to my next discussion with the great man himself about the wonders of Woodhall now ;)
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Ben:
Thanks for your response to my question, but I think you went too far.
As I remind people here all the time, design is all a matter of opinion or taste, and likewise what makes something look easier for one person (widened corridors through trees) makes it harder for another (nothing to aim at or guide you).
I agree that lots of trees surrounding a fairway make it harder, but that was never the intent at Woodhall Spa, and just because it had grown into that doesn't make it the right way.
Several of the younger designers here are quick to suggest changes to "improve" great courses and I guess that's one way you could make a name for yourself . . . or shoot yourself in the foot. I only took on the job at Woodhall Spa because I didn't want to see that happen there. And if you're looking to take on the job at the Bracken Course, I would be careful what you say to the locals about the Hotchkin!
PS. To the best of my memory there were zero bunkers moved further from greens, unless you mean moving tge bottom of the bank a foot or two, which is a distinction without a difference.
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Ben:
Thanks for your response to my question, but I think you went too far.
mmmm maybe too detailed ;D everyone are entitled to their opinion however the changes you have made at Woodhall is quite drastic. I think overall it is a huge improvement to the course.
In the past locally the Hotchkin was known for being long I don't feel that these days as the game has changed and the younger players hit the ball miles. Boony would probably also agree.
As I remind people here all the time, design is all a matter of opinion or taste, and likewise what makes something look easier for one person (widened corridors through trees) makes it harder for another (nothing to aim at or guide you). Agree
I agree that lots of trees surrounding a fairway make it harder, but that was never the intent at Woodhall Spa, and just because it had grown into that doesn't make it the right way.
For me it is easier as trees do intimidate me as I am not the straightest hitter off the tee as many on the site know! - the fewer trees the better for me as it makes me more relaxed off the tee - it may be different for others and golf in parts is psychological and you are fighting negative thoughts at times. With the trees removed I had to reprogram my memory to pick the right lines off the tee as the Hotchkin now feels like a completely different course off the tee however the approaches are more or less the same.
Several of the younger designers here are quick to suggest changes to "improve" great courses and I guess that's one way you could make a name for yourself . . . or shoot yourself in the foot. I only took on the job at Woodhall Spa because I didn't want to see that happen there. And if you're looking to take on the job at the Bracken Course, I would be careful what you say to the locals about the Hotchkin!
I am not that young these days more like middle age most up and coming designers would love to take on the Bracken job ;D however from a reliable source I was told that you and the Renaissance crew were to take on the Bracken Course after doing the Hotchkin as well as a 9 hole par 3 course potentially. Every golf course is like Marmite - you either love it or hate it. Some locals prefer the Bracken to the Hotchkin ???
PS. To the best of my memory there were zero bunkers moved further from greens, unless you mean moving tge bottom of the bank a foot or two, which is a distinction without a difference.
I remember when you were on site that the front of the bunkers were having their faces smoothed over which makes it easier to maintain removing the squarish edge finish which made the green look tight off the tee. The right hand side of the 12th was being done when I visited. Smoothing the top edges of the bunker from the eye does make the bunkers look further away from the green off the tee.
I still remember parts of my first time playing at the Hotchkin - the flags were a bit shorter making the shots look a bit longer and there were no yardage markers or even a yardage book just a simple white or yellow scorecard for each tee. The simplicity of this felt like real golf to me and made me realise at a young age that you needed to play a course multiple times to get to know it and use the right club or type of shots.
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I took the opportunity to revisit Woodhall a few weeks back...very impressive renovation work by Renaissance. The tree removal is a wonder. I also noted the quality of the greens, not merely the surfaces, but also the subtle slopes and borrows. While I wouldn't say the greens are outstanding, they certainly don't detract from the quality of the design. See the significantly upgraded tour.
https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63059.0.html (https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,63059.0.html)
Ciao
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It has always been one of my absolute favourites over a 30 year span of playing, Tom at the time considered the greens a little ordinary......but then what set of greens are not compared to his work and those of his “idol” the Good DR.
Hmmm.... re-reading this thread ahead of this afternoon's opening round of BUDA 2022. This is a comment that Harry Colt, James Braid and a host of others might challenge!
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It will be very interesting to discuss with Tony tomorrow evening whether two rounds on the renovated Hotchkin have changed our minds on the merits of the course.
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Of all the courses in the world that I haven't played, Woodhall Spa and Kingston Heath are the two that interest me the most. The work that was done at Woodhall just looks like perfection to me.
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A few observations after two rounds on the Hotchkin over the weekend.
First, the course is enormously improved with the changes made by Tom Doak and his crew. The removal of trees alone makes a huge difference. Perhaps the seventh is the best example of how this has improved the course. The temptation to take on the inside corner never really featured before, now it's hard to resist. I think Richard Latham, in his excellent short talk on the Saturday night, suggested that scores have gone up!
It's a penal golf course. Being on almost entirely flat land it relies on heather and bunkers for protection. There's very little, if any interest from contours (a couple of greens have false fronts). The already massive bunkers have surrounds that amplify their effective area. On Sunday, I hit what I thought was a perfect draw at a back left flag, only to see it kick right into the front right bunker. In the following group we saw Giles hit what looked like a perfect fade down the left, and it suffered the same fate.
To score well requires a level of precision few if any golfers other than low single figure players have.
The course looks great and is clearly an excellent golf course but I can't love it the way I love Alwoodley, Hollinwell and Berkshire Red which all strike me as more playable heathland tests.
In a number of conversations on Sunday evening, I don't think I spoke to anyone who thought the course was top 20 in the UK. Many challenged whether it was top 20 in England (and I would be one of those).
The comparison Tony and I drew previously with Hankley Common was unfair. Woodhall Spa is a far better course, and a much more interesting one. Though both still look better than they play (for a low teens handicapper, at least).
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I thought it was a fantastic golf course but where it belongs on a best of list depends entirely on your definition of a great golf course.
I would argue that for a good player, there cannot be a better examination of one's ability. It asks reasonable questions of the player and punishes mistakes. It does so in a memorable setting that is a bit less visually memorable because it is a largely flat piece of land. Despite the flatness of the property I found the setting very enjoyable with all of the varieties of vegitation. I found the greens far more interesting than seemed to be the consensus.
The lesser player such as me will be punished for his sins and does not really have an opportunity to bail out and avoid trouble. Nonetheless, I felt I had a chance on every tee and on every approach where my tee shot was in play. The shot demands varied over the course of the round and the greens provided ample interest. I would have hated to play in a medal on the course because I got into situations in bunkers where recovery was nearly impossible. That was fine with me . . . we were playing matches.
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WS requires well thought out shots and demands a good short game and bunker play. For a higher handicap player sometimes there is valor in laying up.
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WS requires well thought out shots and demands a good short game and bunker play. For a higher handicap player sometimes there is valor in laying up.
But at some point you have to play to those greens. And any miss is punished. As is any miss left or right. On almost any shot. I can see why good players like it but, fundamentally, there aren't very may interesting shots. Just challenging ones. And not much in the way of heroic recoveries, except from greenside bunkers.
I can't call that great golf, and for me WS is not a great course. Very good, for sure, very hard, absolutely but, in the end, a bit soulless.
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WS requires well thought out shots and demands a good short game and bunker play. For a higher handicap player sometimes there is valor in laying up.
But at some point you have to play to those greens. And any miss is punished. As is any miss left or right. On almost any shot. I can see why good players like it but, fundamentally, there aren't very may interesting shots. Just challenging ones. And not much in the way of heroic recoveries, except from greenside bunkers.
I can't call that great golf, and for me WS is not a great course. Very good, for sure, very hard, absolutely but, in the end, a bit soulless.
Having played different variations of WS over the last 30 years personally I prefer the latest version as it is less claustrophobic and seeing the natural heather being restored/regenerated which is pleasing to see. However the spine of the course remains as it is like Richard Latham said in his talk going back to what it was.
Golf has changed a lot over time some courses have improved over time and others haven't. WS has stayed pretty much the same and still will be hard which is unique its bunkers are the main line of its defence which is probably why the greens are subtle to ensure it is not too difficult. On the other hand subtle green are harder to read for some I struggled to see the line towards the hole when I played last week.
Having played the strong England heathland trio - Ganton, Notts and WS like Carnoustie all only have 3 par 3s which makes me question is a course with fewer par 3s make it harder to score?
My personal ranking would be
1. Notts
2. Ganton
3. WS
Both Notts and Ganton probably have more variety than WS plus more of their holes are in different directions and there is more interest in the greens. Others will have different views based on taste or their own personal game strengths and weaknesses.
All are very good golf courses and we are fortunate to have all of them in England however are they world class - this is questionable for a number of reasons as each have their own strengths and weaknesses. WS par 3s stand out ahead of the others however the set of par 4's and 5's are probably behind
For a more social fun round I probably would prefer to play Alwoodley, Beau Desert or Sunningdale.
Cheers
Ben
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Seems the general opinion is that WS is not a "great" course, and I agree. I think the key is in Mark's question to Mr Latham on Saturday evening: what's the point for EG to buy a course that isn't really playable for the vast majority of its members? "You just need to place your drives on the fairway" isn't really an instruction that the someone with a double-digit index can work with. "Hit an iron off the tee then" - well, on some holes a 170 yard carry was needed just to clear the heather. So that doesn't work either. And then there were a few holes that were just over-bunkered (like 18).
I really enjoyed my rounds there (and Mr Latham's talk and Q&A on the first evening made the second round so much more enjoyable), but to be "great" a course should be playable for a broader group than just the 10% best golfers.
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I'm not sure I quite agree with Enno's definition of great but I tend to generally agree otherwise with his and others comments on the course. I hadn't played the course previously so had no real prior notions as to how the course played.
What struck me from the off however was not the bunkering, which was epic and beautifully done, but the carries off the tee. I found them intimidating on two counts; firstly the carry was generally over rough, dense vegetation which while pleasing to the eye more often than not was a ball lost if you went in it; secondly due to the relatively flat nature of the land and the height of the vegetation it was had to determine where the rough ended and where the fairway started. For the same reason it was also hard to determine distances to the fairway bunkers (I don't carry distance gadgets).
Of course a golf hole is only blind once and all that and in that respect the course is a true members course that you need to get to know. Going up the 16th hole on the first round I'd suggested to my playing partners that there was a lot to admire about the course but that I didn't think I'd ever love it. In hindsight and having played it again, I think I'd learn to love it fine, even if it is an unrelenting test of golf. In that respect it is much like Carnoustie which in my book is another great course.
Niall
ps. agree totally with comments on Richard's talk. A definite highlight for me.
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As with so many courses picking the correct tee marker to play from is key, not necessarily easy when a players ego/vanity is an influencer, “I’m a big strong man and/or a really good player so I should be playing from the back or middle tees” said the now old bloke playing into the wind who doesn’t want to admit that he isn’t a big strong bloke anymore. And of course playing from different tees isn’t possible if a player is playing in a competitive event or a tournament where all the participants are required to play from the same tees so organisers need to use a bit of nous when placing the tee markers for any given event.
As to Woodhall Spa Hotchkin after the Renaissance guys and gals had opened-up Woodhall I had the opportunity to play it a couple of times on consecutive days and in different wind directions. I thought the course was absolutely terrific. Full of interest and challenge. But that was a few years ago and even then there were a couple of tee-shots where I needed my Sunday best to carry on to the fairways. These days I don’t hit the ball as far as I once did so the tee shots would now be even more challenging, likely impossible for me to reach some of the fairways especially into the wind. It’s no big deal as far as I’m concerned. Life moves on. Move up a set of tees folks. You’ll likely have more fun and might even finish your round with the same ball you started it with.
Each to their own though. And just short of fairways is often a profitable place to find a brand new ProV1 or equivalent.
Atb