Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Steve_Lovett on July 27, 2015, 01:56:28 PM
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I visited Pinehurst this past weekend and was able to play 3 wonderful rounds of golf at Pinehurst #2, Pine Needles, and Mid Pines. I've played each at least a few times before, but I hadn't played either #2 or Mid Pines since their recent restoration work.
By far the greatest surprise of the weekend was Mid Pines. The place is stunning. I've always loved the way the holes move about the property and have enjoyed the golf course, but it always felt as though it was a diamond in the rough, receiving less attention than Pine Needles across the street.
Today - I would consider Mid Pines as the class of Pinehurst-area golf, behind course #2 - standing above Pine Needles or any of the other resort courses, and in the same class with both Forest Creek courses. Any trip to Pinehurst should include a round of golf at Mid Pines - the absence of houses with the exception of a few homes around the perimeter and improvements to greens, bunkers, re-creation of native sandy areas, and selective tree removal are spectacular. It's worth going out of your way to play it!!! [size=78%] [/size]
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I have played Mid Pines now 3 times, once prior to remodeling and twice after. Anytime I am in the area, it is a must play .... need to get over to #2.
I do not know how to compare MP to Dormie or Tobacco Road. They seem to be uniquely different.
I agree MP is a cut above PN. See other thread about favorite vs best course.
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Steve,
The renovation/restoration work completed at Mid-Pines in excellent. In stark contrast to Pine Needles, which feels like a parkland layout for the most part, Mid-Pines has captured the essence of the Carolina sandhills with the golf course truly feeling like it belongs and complements the existing landscape.
TK
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I have played Mid Pines now 3 times, once prior to remodeling and twice after. Anytime I am in the area, it is a must play .... need to get over to #2.
I do not know how to compare MP to Dormie or Tobacco Road. They seem to be uniquely different.
I agree MP is a cut above PN. See other thread about favorite vs best course.
Tobacco Road is a unique place and hold some nostalgia for me (I made my last hole in one there), but has usually been soggy in my experience. The bent greens and less well-drained soil diminish the experience when compared with Mid Pines or others in the Sandhills.
Mid Pines is so good that I wouldn't mind playing it every day... I haven't made it to Dormie yet, but it would have to be pretty special to compete with Mid Pines.
Pine Needles has a site that is more grand in scale and it could improve dramatically with a more native restoration, but some holes (especially 15-17) are compromised by housing in a way that Mid-Pines isn't.
If you haven't been to #2, go. It's a remarkable improvement to an already special golf course. I was skeptical about the changes to holes 4 and 5, but after playing them I think the changes were for the best.
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Steve,
The renovation/restoration work completed at Mid-Pines in excellent. In stark contrast to Pine Needles, which feels like a parkland layout for the most part, Mid-Pines has captured the essence of the Carolina sandhills with the golf course truly feeling like it belongs and complements the existing landscape.
TK
I thought Mid Pines was off the charts good. I think I liked #2 more, but some other factors (weather and not being overserved at the Pine Crest the night before) may have been a part of that equation. Can't wait to get back, but it's just a really fun golf course.
I agree it really sticks out over Pine Needles, which is a very good course, just felt more like a northern Ross Country Club. In my mind, I'd have rated the courses #2 > Mid Pines >>> Dormie >>>> Pine Needles >>>> Tobacco Road, and I didn't dislike Tobacco Road.
My experience was opposite of Steve's. The thing I liked about Tobacco Road was it was playing firm and fast, and had the ultradwarf greens. I liked it, but would probably stick to other options in the future unless it was a longer trip. Pine Needles played really soft the day I was there, even though it hadn't rained. Despite having a similar "scorecard" yardage from the back tees as #2 and Dormie, it felt about 3 - 400 yards longer.
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Like some others here, I LOVE Mid Pines. For me, a mid-handicapper, it's my #1 choice in the Pinehurst area. #2 is a "better" tournament course and the history and ambiance are hard to beat. Also, longer players may find Mid Pines too short, but for me it is the most fun, by far, in the area. I would rate the courses there in this order:
Mid Pines
#2
Dormie (could be awesome with a little better budget)
Pine Needles
Mid Pines is a "can't miss" when in the area.
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When Mark Pritchett and I were there early this year, we ran into Kyle Franz and he told us that he was meeting with the owners about doing a similar restoration to Pine Needles. Now if only Southern Pines could get a little touch up.
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..... Now if only Southern Pines could get a little touch up.
Having grown up on very modest courses, SP could almost be a throw back reminder to my youth. Agree a little bit of work there would elevate it significantly. If it were located elsewhere, it would get a lot more positive attention. The strength of SP are the par 3's, imo.
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Rees, I hope PN undergoes a similar restoration. It really is a special piece of property and easily belongs among the upper echelon of classic golf courses in America.
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I was limited to three rounds of golf this trip - and was lucky to play the three I did given the number of junior golfers in Pinehurst for the US Kids World Championships.
I haven't yet played Southern Pines, but next visit I will substitute it for Pine Needles - and will also try to play the Dormie Club. Mid-Pines is a must.
What is Kyle Franz's background? His work was brilliant.
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I was limited to three rounds of golf this trip - and was lucky to play the three I did given the number of junior golfers in Pinehurst for the US Kids World Championships.
I haven't yet played Southern Pines, but next visit I will substitute it for Pine Needles - and will also try to play the Dormie Club. Mid-Pines is a must.
What is Kyle Franz's background? His work was brilliant.
If you'd like to see Southern Pines I've no doubt you'll find it an enjoyable and affordable round. But either I somehow failed to miss its finer points or else this forum gives it a *ton* of credit for the low green fee. I would never skip a round at Pine Needles or Mid-Pines to play at Southern Pines instead. It's a well routed walk through typical Sandhills terrain with a handful of nice holes (especially a couple of great approach shots). But not a patch on Pine Needles in my estimation.
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I was limited to three rounds of golf this trip - and was lucky to play the three I did given the number of junior golfers in Pinehurst for the US Kids World Championships.
I haven't yet played Southern Pines, but next visit I will substitute it for Pine Needles - and will also try to play the Dormie Club. Mid-Pines is a must.
What is Kyle Franz's background? His work was brilliant.
If you'd like to see Southern Pines I've no doubt you'll find it an enjoyable and affordable round. But either I somehow failed to miss its finer points or else this forum gives it a *ton* of credit for the low green fee. I would never skip a round at Pine Needles or Mid-Pines to play at Southern Pines instead. It's a well routed walk through typical Sandhills terrain with a handful of nice holes (especially a couple of great approach shots). But not a patch on Pine Needles in my estimation.
Good to know... Of course, prior to the improvements to Mid Pines I considered it "tired" and would've placed below the upper echelon of Pinehurst-area courses - well behind Pinehurst #2, #4, #8, Pine Needles, CCNC, Forest Creek (both) and Tobacco Road. Now I think Mid Pines is the best of the bunch, with the exception of #2 and shoulder to shoulder with Forest Creek.
With care and attention/improvement could Southern Pines stature similarly rise?
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Well I haven't played Mid-Pines since its renovation. So it's possible my own opinion of Pine Needles being the clearly superior of the two might change now that the little course next door has been freshened up.
To my recollection conditioning was no particular issue for me at Southern Pines (played there twice a couple years apart). It was probably in as good a shape as Mid-Pines back then but my memory is that Southern Pines felt a bit more repetitive off the tee and never engaged my sense of "rhythm" to the round, as we're discussing in that other thread recently.
The biggest pluses to Mid-Pines are the intimacy of the property and the variety of holes while still feeling like there's a good flow to the round. Across the street at Pine Needles the variety is there but in place of "intimacy" there's a much large sense of scale to the ground movement. Also feels a bit more wide-open off the tee on most holes.
Southern Pines doesn't have the intimacy of Mid-Pines but it's not quite as much of a Big Boy Course feel as Pine Needles. It is easy for me to imagine big-time golf tournaments being played at Pine Needles when I'm playing there. Southern Pines is more of a comfortable member's type course but not nearly as "comfortable" to me as Mid-Pines.
BTW, forgive me if I've mis-remembered some aspects of the three courses. It's been the better part of a decade since my last visit and perhaps certain elements have faded from memory or I've even juxtaposed features from one course with my recollection of another.
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Steve,
What are your favorite holes at MP?
Mine are 4, 7, 8,11,12*,13 & 16
*#1 favorite
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Good to know... Of course, prior to the improvements to Mid Pines I considered it "tired" and would've placed below the upper echelon of Pinehurst-area courses - well behind Pinehurst #2, #4, #8, Pine Needles, CCNC, Forest Creek (both) and Tobacco Road. Now I think Mid Pines is the best of the bunch, with the exception of #2 and shoulder to shoulder with Forest Creek.
Steve, this is the part I struggle with when it comes to the Mid Pines lovers. To me, the course is solid but heavily bolstered by its presentation. It's a 4 in a perfectly fitting cocktail dress. Your thoughts on it pre-renovation seem to confirm as much. I just don't think replacing rough with native sandy scrub, reshaping a few aging bunkers, and reclaiming a bit of putting surface is enough to elevate a tired course to a great one. The renovation work is unquestionably outstanding, and I applaud what Kyle Franz's team did. I never hesitate to recommend Mid Pines to friends visiting the area. But it's still the same design and routing it was before, and I still don't think that design and routing stands with the real big boys in Pinehurst.
How many people would still prefer Mid Pines over Pine Needles if you surrounded the latter with the same sexy sandy scrub that they have across the street? Pine Needles, for my money, has better holes on a more enjoyable routing that traverses a bigger and brawnier property with more variety and fewer clunky holes. The fact that Mid Pines has a more rugged and attractive visual appearance just isn't enough to vault it into what is admittedly a pretty stout top tier of courses in the Pinehurst area. On the contrary, I find the shots at Pine Needles to be as compelling as any in Pinehurst even if the surroundings look a little sterile.
As I've said before, Mid Pines is a 5 in a sexy cocktail dress while Pine Needles is a 7 wearing workout clothes.
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How many people would still prefer Mid Pines over Pine Needles if you surrounded the latter with the same sexy sandy scrub that they have across the street? Pine Needles, for my money, has better holes on a more enjoyable routing that traverses a bigger and brawnier property with more variety and fewer clunky holes. The fact that Mid Pines has a more rugged and attractive visual appearance just isn't enough to vault it into what is admittedly a pretty stout top tier of courses in the Pinehurst area. On the contrary, I find the shots at Pine Needles to be as compelling as any in Pinehurst even if the surroundings look a little sterile.
As I've said before, Mid Pines is a 5 in a sexy cocktail dress while Pine Needles is a 7 wearing workout clothes.
I had never played Mid Pines prior to the renovation, however it's hard for me to see Pine Needles as superior at this moment, and I think it goes beyond the scruffy exterior, although it may all be "attire" and conditioning.
- Played one day apart in the same weather, there was a noticeable difference in playing surfaces. While this makes sense with the bent greens in the summer, which were much, much softer, it extended to surrounds and and fairways.
- By no means did PN play like a modern housing project course, but you can't remove the fact that it plays through houses, and on several holes (8, 9, 15 - 17) it negatively impacts the feel and flow, to me.
- The views just aren't the same, with the exception of 14 tee at PN, I never got the feel where you could see multiple holes and have views, etc.
- I thought MP was just more deceptive, and demanding, other than the length. For example, the 4th hole I took a driver and hit it to the front edge/fringe, then proceeded to putt off the green. Misjudging putts by that much didn't seem possible at PN. The sloping fairways at MP also made me think off the tee more, sometime requiring a shaped shot, or challenging trees to get to the right "slots".
I will say the first 7 holes at PN are really, really good, too bad they didn't play firmer.
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Everyone loves a horse race, however for me I really like both PN and MP. I do prefer one over the other (barely) but I'll keep that to myself and look forward to enjoying both courses on my next visit.
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While I agree MP is much improved by its recent wonderful work, and I agree that PN would benefit from similar work, I maintain the bones at Southern Pines are the best of the 3. Just my 2 cents. Carry on.
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Both courses are great, and you couldn't find a better 36 hole combo. PN needs much needed tree removal by half the greens. PN has some weaker holes such as #6, #10, and #11 imo. The course does have more scale, but that means nothing. With much needed tree removal PN would play firmer in early spring and late fall. PN is a 7.
MP was a 7 prior to the renovation and is a 9 now. It still needs tree removal and the 3rd fairway needs to be sand capped, tree removal to the left and right, plus more drainage. MP opening hole is one of the best. I think #5 and #15 would make much better par 4's. Forgetting the rugged blast out look, MP is much improved, the routing was fantastic from the get go. Inside of 150 yards MP is tougher than #2 IMO. The shots into the greens have been greatly enhanced. Many reasons, maint. meld and shaping of bunkers. MP has no weak holes, just a few half par 5's that would make much better long Par's. The nuances around the greens and with the firm green conditions day in and day out it makes for great short game options around the greens. Hopefully they continue with the tree removal. It would be amazing to play MP with the same maintenance meld as #2. Letting their fairways go dormant or at least 20 yards in front of the green (then spray paint that area). MP is a 9 period in my book.
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MP is the clear winner in the 'charm' category.
The 15th at PN is just not a good hole.
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Ben,
MP is a very nice course. The work Kyle did there is super. But a 9? On what scale?
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MP is the clear winner in the 'charm' category.
The 15th at PN is just not a good hole.
Carl,
While I do prefer MP to PN, the 3rd at MP (IMO) is the worst hole on either course. It is just bad...
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Matt,
I have grown to really like the 3rd hole at MP, i used to think it was a weaker hole. The fairway is often soggy when playing it. The new back tee has actually made it easier for me, from old tee 3 wood was the play for me, but i seldom resisted the urge to take a driver. The fairway is one the most generous on the course. It does have a forced carry element to it, but if you are playing the proper tees it isn't too bad. The 2nd shot into the green is solid. Going over in 2 will give one a dicey chance at par. I can see the carry off the tee being an issue, for it's something i don't like. The hole has a lot of quirk in a good way imo.
What makes the hole bad iyo?
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Steve,
What are your favorite holes at MP?
Mine are 4, 7, 8,11,12*,13 & 16
*#1 favorite
Carl,
I think 1, 2, 4, 10, 12, 13, 16, and 18 are my favorite holes - but other than 3 being weird off the tee and 9 being an awkward dogleg I can't think of a weak hole amongst the bunch.
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Good to know... Of course, prior to the improvements to Mid Pines I considered it "tired" and would've placed below the upper echelon of Pinehurst-area courses - well behind Pinehurst #2, #4, #8, Pine Needles, CCNC, Forest Creek (both) and Tobacco Road. Now I think Mid Pines is the best of the bunch, with the exception of #2 and shoulder to shoulder with Forest Creek.
Steve, this is the part I struggle with when it comes to the Mid Pines lovers. To me, the course is solid but heavily bolstered by its presentation. It's a 4 in a perfectly fitting cocktail dress. Your thoughts on it pre-renovation seem to confirm as much. I just don't think replacing rough with native sandy scrub, reshaping a few aging bunkers, and reclaiming a bit of putting surface is enough to elevate a tired course to a great one. The renovation work is unquestionably outstanding, and I applaud what Kyle Franz's team did. I never hesitate to recommend Mid Pines to friends visiting the area. But it's still the same design and routing it was before, and I still don't think that design and routing stands with the real big boys in Pinehurst.
How many people would still prefer Mid Pines over Pine Needles if you surrounded the latter with the same sexy sandy scrub that they have across the street? Pine Needles, for my money, has better holes on a more enjoyable routing that traverses a bigger and brawnier property with more variety and fewer clunky holes. The fact that Mid Pines has a more rugged and attractive visual appearance just isn't enough to vault it into what is admittedly a pretty stout top tier of courses in the Pinehurst area. On the contrary, I find the shots at Pine Needles to be as compelling as any in Pinehurst even if the surroundings look a little sterile.
As I've said before, Mid Pines is a 5 in a sexy cocktail dress while Pine Needles is a 7 wearing workout clothes.
I think the greens at Mid Pines are miles more interesting with more intricate interior contours and surrounding slopes/contours than those at Pine Needles. Pine Needles is bigger, but the routing - the way the golf course moves and returns around the property at Mid Pines is brilliant and superior to Pine Needles. It's not just about appearance - it's maintenance, strategy, and shotmaking requirements are better in my opinion.
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MP is the clear winner in the 'charm' category.
The 15th at PN is just not a good hole.
Carl,
While I do prefer MP to PN, the 3rd at MP (IMO) is the worst hole on either course. It is just bad...
The tee shot at #3 at Mid Pines is awful and the fairway is awkward and soggy. The approach and green are interesting, however. I think the drive on 15 at Pine Needles is good, but the hole falls apart after that - running between below-average homes. The are the worst holes on each course - agreed.
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Did my first trip to Pinehurst about 3 weeks ago. Played Mid-Pines on a day when it was 95 and the fairways were really soggy from recent rains and what looked like likely over-watering. Wonderful layout and lots of interesting shots.
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To be honest, Pine Needles was a very big disappointment. Its bigger and bolder than Mid-Pines, but without any real effect. I think the resort missed the boat big time with the last redo...very limited in scope. They need to go back to the drawing board and get serious about creating/reviving an identity for PN...it should be far better. As an enjoyable day out, MP wins hands down and it still needs work with tree removal and the 3rd hole...what a mess. I also think it may be worthwhile to leave the Ross blueprint by enlarging some of the sandy waste areas to cover more than one hole and cut through fairways rather than frame fairways. This would of course mean tree removal, but more lovely views would be opened up and the one drawback of the course can be mitigated...the feeling of left-right bunkering throughout the course.
Ciao
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Ben,
MP is a very nice course. The work Kyle did there is super. But a 9? On what scale?
Wyatt
9 out of 10 all day. I have MP over Inverness, Franklin Hills, #2, and Orchard Lake. Like I said with more tree removal and letting the fairways dormant or just around the green area you would really see the place shine in season. You wouldn't catch me there in July or August... Why is MP not a 9 in your book?
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What is Kyle Franz's background? His work was brilliant.
Kyle started with Tom Doak at Pacific Dunes and and since has shaped for C&C at #2, Gil Hanse at the Olympic course in Rio among many other projects. see http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/kyle-franz-june-2011/ (http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/kyle-franz-june-2011/)
I have known Kyle since he started his work at MP and enjoy seeing the course through his eyes. He continues to tweek the course on a regular basis. Evidence a new fairway bunker on 15 shown on the 1939 aerial of the course.
As a member at MP/PN I play MP (150+ x/yr) unless I can't get a tee time or play with friends at PN. MP never seems to grow old.
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Ben, can you discuss your rating criteria just a bit so that we understand what your "9" really says about Mid Pines? I am both amazed and humbled by the number of courses you and I have both played. For reference, would you mind slapping a quick 1-10 rating on the following:
Canterbury
Elks Run
Kirtland
Kingsley
Lookout Mountain
Pinehurst #2
Piqua
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Canterbury-6
Kirtland-8
Piqua-4
Elks Run- cartballer track, not really rateable. 5 for that
Lookout Mtn-8
Kingsley-8
#2-just walked post renovation 8.9
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Some of you may find these Mid Pines drawings interesting. They are from the 1950's, I think.
(http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/mpa.jpg)
(http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/mpb.jpg)
Regarding Pine Needles, here's what Robert (Cypress Point) Hunter had to say:
Having pursued for a number of years the delightful occupation of visiting the best golf courses in this country and Europe, it is a real pleasure to find here in my old running ground an ideal Golf Course. The design of the holes, the construction work and the natural contours combine to produce at Pine Needles - I do not hesitate to say it - one of the finest golf courses, but I doubt if he has done anything better than this.
I've been playing that course for forty years and, honestly, there has not been one single time I wasn't delighted with it. I understand it could be dressed up better and people have their own preferences but, for whatever it's worth, to me it is truly fantastic.
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Some of you may find these Mid Pines drawings interesting. They are from the 1950's, I think.
(http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/mpa.jpg)
(http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/mpb.jpg)
Regarding Pine Needles, here's what Robert (Cypress Point) Hunter had to say:
Having pursued for a number of years the delightful occupation of visiting the best golf courses in this country and Europe, it is a real pleasure to find here in my old running ground an ideal Golf Course. The design of the holes, the construction work and the natural contours combine to produce at Pine Needles - I do not hesitate to say it - one of the finest golf courses, but I doubt if he has done anything better than this.
I've been playing that course for forty years and, honestly, there has not been one single time I wasn't delighted with it. I understand it could be dressed up better and people have their own preferences but, for whatever it's worth, to me it is truly fantastic.
Those are great diagrams for Mid Pines. I don't mean to diminish the quality of Pine Needles - it's wonderful - only to praise the upgraded quality of Mid Pines which in my opinion has surprisingly occasioned it to surpass Pine Needles.
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Oh, no problemo Steve. Pine Needles was always considered the best of the two growing up. But Kyle (and that extremely talented group) did such a stunning job that few chose PN over MP now. They were conceived in tandem as Knollwood No. 1 and No. 2 with a third course seriously considered, as well. When I was writing the book about the era when Ross did his work there I assumed Mid Pines was meant to be the charming/fun course while Pine Needles was meant to be more of a champ course. Wrong! Mid Pines was considered to be brutal when it opened. Needless to say, the first draft of that chapter went in the trash bin!
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Chris,
Great post. The pond on 3 looks as though it was moved way left. Do u know the reason? Expanded irrigation pond is my guess.
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Chris,
Great post. The pond on 3 looks as though it was moved way left. Do u know the reason? Expanded irrigation pond is my guess.
The back side of the pond on 3 looks raised above fairway level. It feels artificial and awkward, and you can't see what lies along the right side of the fairway (it's not good - and always squishy).
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Thanks Ben. I think, as with a LOT of places in the area there was originally a stream with swampy areas. If I remember correctly before the course was built the stream went all the way across 3,5,1 and 18. Obviously, they did dam it up on the 3rd to where it is at some point - early 60's?. Not sure if it was irrigation - some practical reason I don't recall.
I'm pretty sure there's a plan to deal with that area but it is not inexpensive. Not sure when that will happen. Personally, I'm just glad with all the work that did get done there.
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I was in Pinehurst 2 weeks ago -sounds like there was a whole group of GCA'ers floating around there. Wish I would have know, would have like to meet up with some of you.
As a first-timer to the area I was boring and just did the resort courses. Can't wait to get back and try Mid Pines, Pine Needles and Dormie.
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I was in Pinehurst 2 weeks ago -sounds like there was a whole group of GCA'ers floating around there. Wish I would have know, would have like to meet up with some of you.
As a first-timer to the area I was boring and just did the resort courses. Can't wait to get back and try Mid Pines, Pine Needles and Dormie.
I can find a better golf experience at any number of local courses (and my home club) as compared with most of the courses at the Pinehurst Resort. Outside of #2 and maybe #4, 7, and 8 many better options in the area exist at Mid Pines, Pine Needles, Southern Pines, Tobacco Road, Dormie Club, Country Club of North Carolina (if you have access), and Forest Creek (if you have access).
But - the PLACE is special. The village of Pinehurst is great and Southern Pines has a quaint downtown area bifurcated by the train tracks. I never tire of it - but wouldn't find it worth it to venture deep into the 2nd or 3rd tier of golf in that area. I hope you're able to return soon.
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Steve,
I played 2, 4 & 8 and enjoyed the ambience and service of the Carolina. But next time will be Pine Needles or Pine Crest Inn, and some of courses you mentioned.
Found in interesting that #2 was a lot greener than I expected in late July. The USGA must have really tried to burn that sucker up.
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I just don't understand the obsession or need to rank courses on some sort of 10-point scale.
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I just don't understand the obsession or need to rank courses on some sort of 10-point scale.
I feel ya, I like 100 point scales better.
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I just don't understand the obsession or need to rank courses on some sort of 10-point scale.
I feel ya, I like 100 point scales better.
That wasn't what I meant, but thanks.
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Chris,
Did you post vintage aerials of Pine Needles on here? I searched but could not find them, but have a vague recollection that you did. Would love to see what Kyle would be working with if a restoration happened.
Thanks.
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To be honest, Pine Needles was a very big disappointment. Its bigger and bolder than Mid-Pines, but without any real effect. I think the resort missed the boat big time with the last redo...very limited in scope. They need to go back to the drawing board and get serious about creating/reviving an identity for PN...it should be far better. As an enjoyable day out, MP wins hands down and it still needs work with tree removal and the 3rd hole...what a mess. I also think it may be worthwhile to leave the Ross blueprint by enlarging some of the sandy waste areas to cover more than one hole and cut through fairways rather than frame fairways. This would of course mean tree removal, but more lovely views would be opened up and the one drawback of the course can be mitigated...the feeling of left-right bunkering throughout the course.
Ciao
Absolutely correct. At MP, they need to extrapolate & finish what has been started and really drive the idea of the connectedness of the sand-waste areas home. Some of the holes are unnecessarily cut off from each other. .... Why is the 9th hole so isolated?
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Here you go Greg - courtesy of the Hagley Museum. 1933, I think.
(http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/pn1933.jpg)
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Here you go Greg - courtesy of the Hagley Museum. 1933, I think.
(http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/pn1933.jpg)
So the old Knollwood building was the clubhouse site, and today's 18th hole was the original opening hole, is that correct? Was Knollwood a hotel in its day? It's an impressive building.
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It certainly looks that way (RE: Knollwood and routing). It's also great to see how few trees and wide open the property was in the day.
Also, the greens appear tiny.
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Here you go Greg - courtesy of the Hagley Museum. 1933, I think.
(http://golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/pn1933.jpg)
So the old Knollwood building was the clubhouse site, and today's 18th hole was the original opening hole, is that correct? Was Knollwood a hotel in its day? It's an impressive building.
Steve, the detailed story of how the Pinehurst area went from a sandy wasteland to the home of American golf is fully covered in Chris Buie's book "The Early Days of Pinehurst". I would highly recommend giving it a look b/c it is very informative source for Pinehurst area golf. http://www.amazon.com/Early-Days-Pinehurst-Chris-Buie/dp/1497543762 (http://www.amazon.com/Early-Days-Pinehurst-Chris-Buie/dp/1497543762)
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My daughter is a rising Sr, at Elon and I have been driving down to Pinehurst area the past few years for a round.
Played Mid Pines Sunday March 2 - 2014, a beautiful sunny day about 76 degrees. WOW - firm and fast!! Big change from last time played about 20 years ago. I found it just charming, good shot values, slightly hilly but walkable. More walkable than P N, my wife and I played there November 2013.
Actually, I liked Pine Needles, many good holes, but a hard walk. A few homes, but attractive old Cape Cods in that area. But I gotta go with Mid Pines as top dog. D S 7?? They still charge more for P N rounds.
Would love to play #2 sometime, trying to find a member to join some day. In the past have played many other courses in the area incl F Creek, Pinewild, Pit, etc etc.
Have ready access to CCNC but have not played yet, but need to. Any thoughts on CCNC? Doak comments sounded bland, but everyone says courses are strong.
Wm Flynnfan
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CCNC is a very nice country club, the better of the 2 courses (Dogwood) is closing in the fall for an extended period so that it can be completely redone.
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CCNC is a very nice country club, the better of the 2 courses (Dogwood) is closing in the fall for an extended period so that it can be completely redone.
What is being redone? They did a renovation not too long ago by Hills. It is a very good course, but curious to know what they will change.
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[img]https://www.flickr.com/photos/131096344@N02/20012583248/in/datetaken/[img]