Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Benjamin Litman on February 08, 2015, 08:15:02 PM
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Just an FYI, for those who didn't see the mention in my previous post.
Golf Channel will be broadcasting the event live, at the following times (all times eastern):
FEBRUARY 18 11:00 P.M. - 2:00 A.M.
FEBRUARY 19 11:30 P.M. - 2:00 A.M.
FEBRUARY 20 11:30 - 2:00 A.M.
FEBRUARY 21 9:00 P.M. - 2:00 A.M.
Happy viewing, and go Lydia!
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Finally after 15 years of multiple changes to the routing of the Composite Course it goes back to the original routing made for the 1959 World Cup.
It was changed for the 1998 Presidents Cup to make three closing greens close - 18w,1w and 18e - to the clubhouse. It worked in that sense for match play but the old routing is much better. The par 3 16e used for the last Presidents Cup is replaced by 4e
The course looks really good - almost as much brown as green.
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Awesome, cant wait to watch, especially following MC's comments
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Thanks for the insight, Mike, and thanks for the pictures on Twitter--the course does indeed look tournament ready. When you say 16e is replaced by 4e, does that mean 16e won't be played at all or just in a different order? If the former, that's a shame, as 16e is one of my favorite par-3s on the property (hard to separate it much from 4e and 5w).
Could you give us the final routing that will be used? Thanks again.
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Benjamin,
16 East isn't played.
Routing is 1W,2W,1E,2E,5W,6W,7W,10W,11W,12W,17W,18W,3W,4W,3E,4E,17E,18E.
You could make a pretty reasonable argument for it being the best course in the world.
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Thanks for the routing, Mike. And you won't get any counter-argument from me.
By the way, I saw a Twitter picture of Kingston Heath this morning soaked with rain. Does that mean the hard, fast, brown conditions at RMGC are no longer? Or was that picture from a while ago?
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Thanks for the routing, Mike. And you won't get any counter-argument from me.
By the way, I saw a Twitter picture of Kingston Heath this morning soaked with rain. Does that mean the hard, fast, brown conditions at RMGC are no longer? Or was that picture from a while ago?
That photo was captured yesterday as a storm swept through Melbourne in the afternoon.
As we speak, there is more rain this morning. I'm supposed to play but I'm not liking the sound out the window!
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After three holes on Saturday morning, the rain cleared and now we are back to hot and sunny weather.
Whilst the course has greened up with the rainfall (see photo of 4 West below) and the greens were relatively receptive, it won't take much for brown and firm to reappear. Weather forecast during tournament week suggest that too.
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j468/bennyj08/RMW%204th%20hole_zpsgt4io33a.jpg) (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/bennyj08/media/RMW%204th%20hole_zpsgt4io33a.jpg.html)
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so much rain Friday night and Saturday morning down at Black Rock.
At RM West on Saturday morning, I saw slight pitch marks in the greens.
Shock, horror !
They only occurred on the low side of a green if you were two or three feet from the edge. Still played firm to any shot played to the middle of the green.
I suspect the course will be firming up nicely. And the mowers will working a treat on the grass following the rain.
I suspect the bunkers have had quite a bit of work over the last day to fix some of the wash that occurred.
Should be a great event.
James B
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Thanks for the updates, Ben and James.
Pairings for Round 1 have been released and are available here: http://www.womensausopen.com/news-display/pairings-ko-tees-off-thursday-with-ryu,-hull/84538
Note that the course will play 200 meters longer than in 2012 for a total, in yards, of 6741. As I was saying, we should all watch women's golf more because it's the game to which we can best relate.
And here is the course guide for spectators:
(http://www.golf.org.au/site/_content/image/00131310-image.png)
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Watching the pre-tournament interview with last week's winner, Su Oh, she revealed that our own Mike Clayton will be caddying for her this week. So, in case the course wasn't incentive enough to watch, there you have it.
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Benjamin
I caddied for Su last year at Victoria as well as in the Victorian Open and the Kraft Nabisco.
The Vic Open 3 weeks ago was her first tournament as a pro - and she was tied for the lead with 3 to play. I got her from there to the clubhouse with 3 bogeys.
Last week her dad caddied in Queensland and she arrived at the 69th tee one behind the leaders. He got her from there to the clubhouse with 4 birdies.
Amazingly I still have a job this week:)
The course is really good - greens are hard by the standards of any course in the world yet some still see them as soft. Maybe they are 11.5 so sensible and that hasn't always been the case at Royal Melbourne.
A friend of mine caddies for So Yeon Ryu and the three of us spent the weekend down at St Andrews Beach. I'd be surprised if she didn't have a great chance to win on Sunday.. Tremendous player.
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That's an incredible story, Mike. I'm curious how your work with Su as a caddie (and your general exposure to the professional game) influences your work as an architect.
Yes, So Yeon Ryu has an amazing golf swing and temperament--although the same can be said for so many of the professional women. Her group, filled out by Lydia and Charley, will certainly be one to watch, along with Su's group.
Somewhat relatedly, I'm praying you can hijack the Women's Open Twitter feed and post some good pictures; the ones that are currently up there--typically of players teeing off, but taken from the side (i.e., with no view of the hole)--are very subpar.
Have a wonderful week, and best of luck to you and Su,
Benjamin
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Showtime! Live on Golf Channel now.
Tough day for Mike and Su Oh, but the weather looks spectacular and the course looks even better.
Enjoy everyone.
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lovin every minute of it on first round. Tomorrow will be special with two of my all time favorites being televised from "the Riv" and RM.
I may be mistaken, but it seems the rough at RM is even a little more baked out than it was one year ago next week when I played there.
Looking for any of the GCA lads in the gallery in background. Mathew, David, Mark, Paul.... is anyone attending?
Also, it made me wonder with local RM player Watson on Ryu's bag and Mike on Oh's, and some of the others with caddie or personal experience at RM, if there is a factor of 'the more you know... the more you overthink... the more misses on putting lines or angles into greens. The current leaders seem to be among those without the depth of experience at RM. It will also be interesting if the predicted heat that will settle in Sat and Sun might play a role on which player has that sort of stamina.
It would be fun if the telecast had Mike do a little golf course architecture tour of RM showing some of the salient features from Dr. Mac and some of the resto-reno work.
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I spent a few hours there today, and you are right Mr Daley, the off-fairway areas are quite dry indeed. More contrast between the fairways and the non -fairway grasses than I recall seeing in the last two years. The course looks really good. Firm greens, and not too quick. Some good players in the field too. Should make for a great tournament!
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MattM
We were out with Ariya Jutanugarm who shot 69. Coming back in the cart from the 9th green (2 tee start) Katherine Kirk asked her is she like 'this style of golf'
Without a hint of thought or ambiguity the answer was 'no'
You don't really expect a 20 year old to see much past what suits her but my guess is not once during the round did she stand on a hole or over a shot and think what a genius Alister MacKenzie was. I would be amazed if she even knew who he was.
In the afternoon the greens were not firm - they were hard and, by the standards of the LPGA, rock hard.
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MattM
We were out with Ariya Jutanugarm who shot 69. Coming back in the cart from the 9th green (2 tee start) Katherine Kirk asked her is she like 'this style of golf'
Without a hint of thought or ambiguity the answer was 'no'
You don't really expect a 20 year old to see much past what suits her but my guess is not once during the round did she stand on a hole or over a shot and think what a genius Alister MacKenzie was. I would be amazed if she even knew who he was.
In the afternoon the greens were not firm - they were hard and, by the standards of the LPGA, rock hard.
When I was at the Golf Channel last year, I had a brief conversation with Paige Mackenzie and she asked why I liked Royal Melbourne. When I asked why she didn't, she said because there are so many holes where she can't see the tee shot land. I just told her that's why the second shots were all so good, but it just goes to show that different people think differently about architecture.
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Is there a better non-seaside golf course in the world??
Everything you could ever ask for: strategic width off the tee, intelligent fairway hazards, rugged (but fair) bunkering, not an artificial trick anywhere to be found, and arguably one of the greatest set of greens found on Planet Earth.
This a golf course that presents itself in multiple dimensions: aerial and ground and combinations of both. It's a rich panoply of architectural features that doesn't allow for any laziness, mental or physical. RM is a delight to play under almost any condition and if sentenced to play but one property for the rest of my life...this would be it!
Cheers!
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It will be a crazy weekend in Melbourne this weekend. The White Night Festival (all night) is going to draw 500,000plus revelers to the CBD on Sat. night. And, there is Chinese New Years. I wonder if any of the young lady golfers won't get a bit caught up in the festivities.
Last year, my wife and I got caught up in the crush of the crowd mostly by accident and my special round was scheduled for tee off at 7:30 the next morning. We took a wrong trolley from Fitzroy and it went direct to the middle of CBD where we tried to walk back to Flinders Station to head back to our hotel, totally gridlocked in the massive crowd, stopping to hear several bands and street dances along the way. Rather than a nice dinner at the beach area in St. Kilda's and an early turn in to make the tee time, I got to bed at 2Am and with 3 hours fitful sleep in anticipation of playing at my golf venue life long dream. I barely made it in time to enjoy the one in a lifetime experience. Whilst I was dog tired by the time I got back to hotel, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
Watching the 2nd round, it is striking how few folks are out and about watching the tournament. Do they not know these are the best female players in the world and one of only a very few in the Pantheon of golf courses. The area around the club house is empty! :o Looking for Paul up in his office window... but shade is down and probably looking after f&b service.
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Dick, some will blame the small galleries on it being Friday, but the truth is that Melburnians are no longer interested in professional golf. The crowds won't be much better at the weekend. Apart from Tiger's two Aussie Masters appearances (2009 and 2010) and the Presidents Cup (2011), you see bigger crowds at a game of suburban footy.
There are rumours that the Aussie Masters won't be played this year - if true there will unquestionably be moans of disappointment from many but the truth is in the numbers. We just don't support golf tournaments here.
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IMG ran the masters and the Perth International. The tournament in Perth wont be played this year, and there are rumours IMG want to essentially combine the two and reduce to one Australian event that is co- sanctioned with the Euro tour, and move it to Feb.
That change in timing means skipping this year and restarting in Feb 2016 with the new and improved combined event, and not necessarily in in Melbourne.
Who the hell knows, money talks
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Josh and Chris, you know that this sort of real world information from those of you on the scene is causing me some serious cognitive dissonance? :-[
The notion that several of the best golf courses on the planet can be found around OZ and my long held belief that the Aussie's are genuine sporting enthusiasts across many sports, and my long held belief about these aspects of Australian lifestyle, along with seeing this disaster of attendance at such a talented field of players on a storied golf course, and to see the patina and textures of turf and architecture at a maintenance meld ideal there at RM .... well I am just not ready to accept any of this so-called reality.
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Who the hell knows, money talks
Or in this case, lack of money. Pro golf is dead in this country, which for the tiny minority of us who like it and attend at every opportunity is a real shame.
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A broad look at the Clubhouse area, 18E, and the dried out off-fairway areas.
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/tgfkiteboy/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20150219_011_zpsf4e9897d.jpg) (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/tgfkiteboy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20150219_011_zpsf4e9897d.jpg.html)
A wedge for Belen Mozo, after pushing her drive on 3E (15 Composite) and having to tap out with the second.
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/tgfkiteboy/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20150219_005_zpsec8c19a9.jpg) (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/tgfkiteboy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20150219_005_zpsec8c19a9.jpg.html)
(http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b556/tgfkiteboy/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20150219_006_zps7d01b252.jpg) (http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/tgfkiteboy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20150219_006_zps7d01b252.jpg.html)
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I am a golf nut and I confess I struggle to maintain interest in pro golf outside the majors. I might go and watch for a few hours if a tourney is held at my club, but I will spend most of that in the bar
I'm not sure architecture really translates well on TV, and while it does in the flesh, most spectators don't see it. They see big smashed drives and that's it
There are more good tournaments played on average courses than average tournaments on good courses or indeed good tournaments on good courses
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Chris and I were discussing this last week, a town like Melbourne has so much quality sport, that it can get spread around quite a bit.
Whereas a tournament that is extraordinarily successful, the Victoria Open (Men & Women) at Thirteenth Beach Golf Links, which three years ago moved to a major regional centre in Geelong, Bellaring Peninsula and the seaside village of Barwon Heads, has seen significant crowds, 4 x 18 holes of Pro-Am sponsors sold out prior, Thursday's car parks almost full by lunchtime, 36 hole venue allows for Rds 1&2 to alternate with Men and Women, before the cut, when men and women alternate tee times on the Beach course, while members and guests can still play a round on the Creek course, before catching some golf. Players loved the event, no ropes allowing for crowds to interact with the players, listen to them, watch them closely and walk the fairways.
The prize pool is increasing approx $100k each year for both men and women, prize pools are equal.
It allowed for the unique outcome of Richard Green and his fiancé, Marieanne Skarpnord, to both win their titles at the same venue, on the same day. Incredible.
Entry for kids is free, so to locate the tournament in A regional centre a little over 60mins drive from Melb, allows for a more genuine interest in the actual golf, in this unique format.
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Brett, the Vic Open has done a wonderful job of creating a unique format that other struggling tournaments should look at - largely driven by GV's David Greenhill. It has found a nice home in regional Victoria. It has provided a couple of wonderful feel good stories.
However, it is a long way from "extraordinarily successful" as you describe it. It is but a shadow of the past position it once held...albeit that its heading back in a positive direction. Without TV tournaments cannot get sponsors. Without sponsors.....and so the spiral goes.
I do not have a magic answer...just commenting on your description.
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I hear that Adelaide is thinking of doing something again - may have been a meeting of powerbrokers recently or about to happen. We will see what happens - ladies or mens event in future, perhaps a year or so's time.
James B
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James
It is ridiculous Adelaide hasn't seen a decent event for many years.
Greg,
I'm saying the Vic Open is extraordinarily successful. The event was dead in Melbourne and in 3 years it has formed a base from which to make a really great tournament. It needs more money and a better field but both are coming and the local support is amazing. The lesson might be to take golf where people appreciate it.
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Greg, I invite you to come down next year and see it, if you haven't already, I was not comparing it to its successful past, that is indeed history. My description is based on a current pro tournament being held in Barwon Heads, that all the players enjoy coming to and the depth of fields continue to grow, the crowds are enthusiastic and supportive, the golf community gets to together to supply abundant volunteers and most importantly, it is the venue, Thirteenth Beach Golf Club, that is one of the keys to the success, all parties are benefitting, and TV should be part of the event next year, albeit for the women's event only.
I stand by my comments.
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Thanks Brett. I have lived through the past 8 years of the Vic Open's rollercoaster and I have dropped down there the past 2 years as my wife has been part of the WGV/GV Team involved. I think that I am in somewhat deep agreement with you & Mike C. We just differ on our definitions of "extraordinarily successful". Please see my actual comments. The tournament has done a good job of resurrecting itself from the dire straits it had found itself in. David Greenhill probably deserves a statue. I just think it has a way to go before it is accorded "extraordinarily successful" status. Hey, I'm not into nitpicking...its a good news story and we need more of them.
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The lesson might be to take golf where people appreciate it.
So it's the (potential) spectators fault they don't go to tournaments Mike?
The Masters is too expensive to get into given the quality of the field, you have to put up with power-hungry Nazi's marshalling, that big shithead security guard who seems to think he can stand right in your view with impunity, the food is crap and expensive and the village is full of uninteresting and banal displays.
Most of the golfers are boring robots who don't interact with the punters at all and the caddies seem to think they are Nobel prize-winning Neurosurgeons, not one step up from grocery cart pushers.
The TV coverage is woeful, so it's best not to even watch it. Before you know it, the event is upon you and you find yourself not giving a stuff.
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Gosh what a difference it makes to see a course played the way it was designed to. With mid irons hitting and skipping forward rather than splatting wedges.
Wonder how this course would be seen in the US. Scrappy around the edges and brown blotchy greens. I fear the PGA TV audience would not like
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Gosh what a difference it makes to see a course played the way it was designed to. With mid irons hitting and skipping forward rather than splatting wedges.
Wonder how this course would be seen in the US. Scrappy around the edges and brown blotchy greens. I fear the PGA TV audience would not like
My thoughts as well. It's been great fun watching how the course has been playing. RM is truly magnificent, especially under these conditions.
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Gosh what a difference it makes to see a course played the way it was designed to. With mid irons hitting and skipping forward rather than splatting wedges.
Wonder how this course would be seen in the US. Scrappy around the edges and brown blotchy greens. I fear the PGA TV audience would not like
My thoughts as well. It's been great fun watching how the course has been playing. RM is truly magnificent, especially under these conditions.
Well, didn't we essentially have that at Pinehurst U.S. Open last year? My take from commentary was that the viewers and golf fans had mixed reviews, perhaps leaning towards favorable. Of course our denizens on GCA.com loved it as being the more pure and intended 'maintenance meld'.
Wading through Mark's humorous sarcasm (to know hi is to love him ;D ) I think he makes a good point. The problem seems to be that 'spectator friendly' is a dual edged sword, in my view. The standard of on-the-course comportment of the spectators has always traditionally been the genteel golf clap, reserved and polite spectator. Yet, the economic pressure to set up the venue with every profit center of sales of F&B and trinkets and such as a priority becomes a blend of over-served punters, and in some cases substandard quality of offerings at max prices. I would say some event concessionaires get it right at both golf venue and other stadia of sporting events. But, then we get the occasional venue that gets the punter's more involved by design like the Ryder Cup and The Waste Management - Superbowl weekend drinking contest in AZ where the crowds get boisterous. The players do get more interactive at the Ryder and President's cups. But, they get indignant when some joker yells "mashed potatoes" after booming drives from the teebox. Mark, we can't turn golf into a blood sport, and yet maintain some semblance of the sport's more genteel tradition, and have the so-called punters get invested and interactive, all at a low low price of admission. It is a conundrum, it seems to me. I really don't know the actual economics and financial details of putting on a successful tournament here in the U.S., let alone Australia. But, I suspect that the answer to financial success and viability lies more in the TV rights and advertisements, than the take at the gate or the beer tent. The Champion's Tour did encourage their players to have more interactive activity both with the spectators and broadcasters on-course, during progress of play. I don't think the problem is unsolvable. But, tradition of how we watch the tournaments and get the spectators more invested needs some out-of-the-box rethinking.
To lose the yearly rota of Australia golf events to watch that many of us northern hemi, snow bound cabin fever ridden blokes endure would be a pity.
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Mark
I've watched in awe Lydia Ko play 27 holes this week. She has not come close to missing a single shot - on a really hard course. Almost every shot lands precisely in the right place (she misjudged a pitch into 17 last night) with absolute control.
You know how hard it is to get to those back pins on 3 East (15) She hit a hybrid to 6 feet the first day, holed a 9 iron the second and hit a 7 iron to 15 feet yesterday. Brilliant shots all of them.
What amazes me is (we counted them) there were less than 20 women who looked like they may have been members of clubs watching her play the back nine yesterday.
What is utterly ridiculous is spectators are not allowed to walk the fairways.
And the greens are too hard at this point. Women cannot spin the ball like men and it is silly to expect them to.
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Thanks Mike for all the updates. What a great situation you have to be in the front row and midst of the burgeoning greatness of Ms Ko during her early career. Sorry Ms Oh didn't make cut. But, have a great final round today. ;D 8)
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Yes, Mike, many thanks for the updates--both here and on the tournament website. For those unaware, Mike has been writing great articles daily at the Women's Open website about mostly the course but also the players. If the few hours on Golf Channel aren't enough for most people, the website (via YouTube) offers a livestream, which I greatly appreciate.
As of two years ago, Lydia Ko joined Tiger as my favorite golfers to watch. She's mesmerizing and a very intelligent young woman. Listen to her comments about Royal Melbourne: The 17-year-old appears to be the only one who not only understands, but embraces and even loves the many challenges the course presents. Watching Lydia in an era Michelle Wie was supposed to own should make clear once and for all that the greatest predictor of a childhood prodigy's success in professional golf is success (where success is defined by victories). Michelle had, has, and will always have the talent edge, but Lydia was always going to be the better professional because she just wins. I can't wait to watch the clinician at work tonight. Bring it home, Lyds!
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I do have a question about the course. There is a fair amount of vegetation (trees and bushes) that appears to be very much "in play" on a number of holes. It is hard to tell from watching on TV whether or not a ball hit into the trees and bushes will be playable or will result in an unplayable lie or even an lost ball.
Are the trees and bushes as dense as they appear on TV? Are recovery shots likely/possible from them?
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David, I'll let Mike be the one to give the defintive response, but from my memory, there are very, very few trees/bushes that are actually in play for the pros. A shot would need to be hit well offline to find them.
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RM is somewhat links like in that while it does not have a lot of vegetation near the lines of play, what there is is generally really ugly.
Tea Tree is gorse without the prickles, very woody and low horizontal growth patterns. To be avoided
Yes I concede Clayts point the girls cant get the spin. THey seem to generate good distance with modern bats, but they lack the acceleration down into the ball and perhaps there is just too much release - balls are pitching short and running 40m over the back of the green. Maybe they should use Balata balls?
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David
how would you describe the gorse that surrounds Dornoch?
I expect it catches the worst of shots, and rarely comes into play for the best of shots, unless a particularly aggressive line of play is taken.
That is how I would describe RM. Plenty of width, but with strong hazards for the player that chooses to take them on, and perhaps the best vegetation management program in Australian courses (tree management, natural vegetation management and grasses management. For all the discussion about the bunkering, greens and routing at RM, the vegetation management is of an equally high standard, making the place what it is. "A cathedral of Australian golf".
James B
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Having said all that, how much of the nice change is due to the course design as opposed to the course presentation.
If you were for example, to put Merion and Kingston Heath in roughly the same architectural par ballpark, would you rather watch Merion under US open conditions or KH under its usual tournament conditions (ignoring the stature of the event and the quality of the field at a US Open)
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Benjamin L. -
While most of the heavy vegetation at RM may not come into play for the pros, I am wondering how often it comes into play for the mid-teen handicap. ;)
James B. -
I would describe much of the gorse that surrounds Dornoch as overly penal, since most of the time it results in a lost ball (stroke & distance, the harshest penalty). It instead of gorse, if there was water or just OB stakes, I wonder how people would judge the course? At least with water you get relief at the point of entry, not stroke and distance.
The good news is Dornoch has removed much of the gorse that was within the course and done so on the Struie course as well.
DT
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Gentlemen,
Lydia KO's course management is extraordinary. I don't think she BELIEVES she can pop a ball to within a yard of her intended landing spot she KNOWS it!
Her chip in for eagle at the third on the last day as an example! A delicate pin-point precision stroke with a wee bit of backspin to counter the downslope after clearing the bunker lip by a foot to allow the ball to trickle into the hole. From what ...all of 30 metres maybe? Just exquisite! She must have been channeling Seve!
And yes, as Mike Clayton pointed out it seemed that the greens got just a bit too firm for the amount of backspin which could be generated by the golfers. That being said I was intrigued that running shots were not utilised more. Perhaps that is not possible on RM considering where the pin placements were? Can anyone answer this as I have not played Royal Melbourne itself.
Cheers Colin
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Interesting point Colin. And maybe a top player like Mike can answer the question of utilizing the bump and runs and running along the ground from fringe vs a chip shot.
Jane Crafter had a players lesson on our broadcast demonstrating use of the hybrid club to bump it along the ground with a little loft. I also suspect the decision not to bump it was more because of angles and flirting with the green edges cut so much into the greens, with either fall in slopes from green into bunker, or slight humps just over the bunker edges on green surface. Perhaps the runner on the ground taking an angle too close to these precarious bunker edges within greens is too chancy. But, when the path of the ball didn't have to travel so close to a bunker edge, the bumper along the ground is the preferred method off the fescue surrounds.
What would Tiger give to have Lydia's short game at this point in the proceedings! :o ;D
And, you have to love the ladies demeanor and the appearance they loved playing RM. At the key moments of a missed shot or some disappointment by the contenders, you could see a bit of shocked disappointment, followed by classy efforts to suck it up and turn the frown upside down with a gracious smile to the crowd. Despite what must have been a bit of a cooker in temperatures, they all showed great composure. I could watch golf like that every day. Matter of fact, I might. I taped all 4 rounds! 8) ;D
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I was disappointed how much putting they showed - that was not the exciting part of watching RM. Ko is an outstanding talent but she has to do something about her putting routine - she needs to do something to speed up. She would view the putt from behind, then alongside, then half way down the line, then with two fingers from behind, then line up the line on the ball, then have her caddy behind her make sure she was lined up and then finally stroke the putt. Oh yeah, she would also take a few practice strokes.
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Jerry, whilsrt the men of PGA tour are getting as bad, the LPGA is so much worse with this aspect of putting fastidiousness. What is really maddening is those that use all these 'aim point' methods and are so OCD about the putting, yet are not very good putters. Ko doesn't seem to have that particular problem at this juncture.
And, it gets worse at the lower levels of ladies golf. Watching some of the college am girls will drive you nuts. Their coaches encourage this I believe.
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Jerry,
The fact that KO seems chip in once and three-putts only once a round (to ensure she keeps her feet on the ground and realises she is a mere mortal) would seem to mitigate this need of yours for her "…to speed up"!!
To be honest I watched all four rounds (cyclonic conditions here kept me indoors!) and I did not feel that she was footling around in an egregious manner.
But, but, but ……… RJD has taped all four rounds so he could actually time all these gals, do a statistical analysis, and give us a definitive answer!
Disclaimer: I am NOT a Kiwi …… just in awe!!
Cheers Colin
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Jerry,
"lyds" uses the Aim Point method - if you have seen it, it appears quite complex - the girls Ive seen using this, on each blank page of their yardage book, has what appears to be a spider web type diagram, where all shots etc are plotted.
What I found interesting of her putting routine, was using her feet to compare the slope - I haven't seen that before, and makes sense to me.
I think they should ban alignment assistance by any person. Advice but not assistance. If they can't line themselves up, they shouldn't be out there.
in addition to Col's post, her precision of the tee was most amazing to me, the number of times she landed it on the edge of a fairway to gain maximum advantage, or as close to a bunker, just amazing, literally within paces of the ideal target or carry.
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O/t from recent posts but I was just wondering about the composite course for those in the know. the west seems to be consistently rated as a world top 10 and the addition of the holes from the east seems to only add to the quality. What courses are better then RM west but not as good as the composite course?? what sort of leap does it make in people's rankings?
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I watched all 4 days of the tournament and I was in awe of the course and the maturity of Ms. Ko. Great win. The greatness of RM allowed Ko to showcase her great game.
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David tepper
I note your point about the removal of gorse at Dornoch.
RM does manage the rough, but there are bad shots that get into deep stuff.
All
I heard on the broadcast that about a week out from the event, the greens were hydro-jetted. (I think Jane Crafter mentioned this).
This may explain why at times some of the greens played differently to our own personal experience.
Those girls with greater strength (and so higher spin) certainly could stop a ball, something not often seen. Jutanagarn was a particular case of stopping a ball.
Full marks to RM and the tournament organisers for presenting the course as they did - loose shots were penalised, marginal shots were treated as such and good play provided opportunities. The course successfully identified the best player.
James B
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O/t from recent posts but I was just wondering about the composite course for those in the know. the west seems to be consistently rated as a world top 10 and the addition of the holes from the east seems to only add to the quality. What courses are better then RM west but not as good as the composite course?? what sort of leap does it make in people's rankings?
Hi Alan,
RM West 1-18 is still easily the best course in Australia. 8,9,13,14,15 are all good holes but they don't use 13-15 as you need to cross a road to get out to them, 8 is an ok par 4 and I really like th epar 4 9th. 13 and 15 are two of my favourites, a nice short par three and a interesting par 5.
In regards to the East Course I think 18 is the best finishing hole of the two courses and strentghens the layout, 1E, 3E, and 17E also add value. I prefer 16E as a par 3 to 4E (you have to walk past one and play one to get to the 17th tee).
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Jerry,
"lyds" uses the Aim Point method - if you have seen it, it appears quite complex - the girls Ive seen using this, on each blank page of their yardage book, has what appears to be a spider web type diagram, where all shots etc are plotted.
What I found interesting of her putting routine, was using her feet to compare the slope - I haven't seen that before, and makes sense to me.
Brett,
This is the "Aimpoint Express" method designed to speed up the process. Basically, you stand beside the line of the putt and try to estimate the side slope with your feet (in %). For each % slope, you aim one finger right or left of the centre of the cup. So if Lydia estimates the slope to be 3% right to left, she'll aim 3 fingers right of the cup.
It's clever because the method works on putts of pretty much every length and is surprisingly accurate. Short putts on the same % slope break less in total than long putts, so on short putts 1 finger will represent a smaller absolute distance simply due to the perspective. The tricky part is estimating the side slope with your feet, so that bit requires a fair bit of practice with an electronic level.
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I was disappointed how much putting they showed - that was not the exciting part of watching RM. Ko is an outstanding talent but she has to do something about her putting routine - she needs to do something to speed up. She would view the putt from behind, then alongside, then half way down the line, then with two fingers from behind, then line up the line on the ball, then have her caddy behind her make sure she was lined up and then finally stroke the putt. Oh yeah, she would also take a few practice strokes.
I thought the LPGA TV coverage at RM to be terrible. As Jerry says, they showed far too much putting, and worse, they only showed a small fraction of the field. My guess is the telecast had a modest budget but what a shame. I really wanted to see more of RM. I turned it off after a bit as it was boring to see the same players over and over again.
It was much more enjoyable to watch CBS's coverage of Riviera. They did a great job explaining how the green contours dictated much of the strategy.
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Not unlike many a BBC Open Championship broadcast of years past, the accents of the Australian commentators somehow made up for the deficiencies in what they said and what they showed (and, yes, it helped that I was there not to long ago and could mentally fill in any gaps in the coverage). And, frankly, Lydia Ko is so mesmerizing that I could watch her, and her alone, play golf all day long. She not only played the best, but most appreciated and understood what Royal Melbourne is about.
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I'm anxious to see Lydia Ko at Lancaster CC in July. ;D
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I was disappointed how much putting they showed - that was not the exciting part of watching RM. Ko is an outstanding talent but she has to do something about her putting routine - she needs to do something to speed up. She would view the putt from behind, then alongside, then half way down the line, then with two fingers from behind, then line up the line on the ball, then have her caddy behind her make sure she was lined up and then finally stroke the putt. Oh yeah, she would also take a few practice strokes.
I thought the LPGA TV coverage at RM to be terrible. As Jerry says, they showed far too much putting, and worse, they only showed a small fraction of the field. My guess is the telecast had a modest budget but what a shame. I really wanted to see more of RM. I turned it off after a bit as it was boring to see the same players over and over again.
It was much more enjoyable to watch CBS's coverage of Riviera. They did a great job explaining how the green contours dictated much of the strategy.
Mike,
The television coverage was run on an absolute shoestring by the Australian ABC which has suffered under massive government budget cuts which have led to it abandoning almost all local sports coverage. The number of cameras were probably about one third of what you would normally see at a golf tournament. We were sitting behind 13 (3W) and the camera tower wasn't manned until the 6th or 7th last group came through (with the cameraman being driven down on the back of a cart from one of the earlier holes). Some of the commentators were ABC commentators from interstate who had little or no specialist knowledge in golf or the sandbelt (and, some Melburnians might say, sport in general).
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I was disappointed how much putting they showed - that was not the exciting part of watching RM. Ko is an outstanding talent but she has to do something about her putting routine - she needs to do something to speed up. She would view the putt from behind, then alongside, then half way down the line, then with two fingers from behind, then line up the line on the ball, then have her caddy behind her make sure she was lined up and then finally stroke the putt. Oh yeah, she would also take a few practice strokes.
I thought the LPGA TV coverage at RM to be terrible. As Jerry says, they showed far too much putting, and worse, they only showed a small fraction of the field. My guess is the telecast had a modest budget but what a shame. I really wanted to see more of RM. I turned it off after a bit as it was boring to see the same players over and over again.
It was much more enjoyable to watch CBS's coverage of Riviera. They did a great job explaining how the green contours dictated much of the strategy.
Mike Schott,
Perhaps you ought to wait for your boy Flemma to give you the coverage you so desire?
The rest of us are thrilled to settle for at least a glimpse of arguably the finest inland golf course ever conceived.
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I can't recall a better or more approriate coverage of a women's event.
I suspect the Northern Trust event had a more considerable budget.
Personally, as much as I like Riviera, I much preferred watching the girls at RM and that coverage, even if I only saw it in standard definition here in Australia (I get to see Riviera in HD on satellite).
James B
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I thought the coverage was good. I Have watched golf at RM on TV for 35 years and there were angles and views last week that I had never seen before. Cameras seemed closer to the action, and I saw a lot more of the slope of the place that was ever evident historically
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I Have watched golf at RM on TV for 35 years and there were angles and views last week that I had never seen before. Cameras seemed closer to the action, and I saw a lot more of the slope of the place that was ever evident historically
Given the ABC's budget cuts, I'm sure that's just because they used broken tripods.
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The ABC is non-commercial, is it not? Here in the states, Golf Channel ran its usual approximately 18 minutes of commercials per hour. We missed a great deal of what the home audience saw.