Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Mike Hendren on January 29, 2015, 11:19:28 AM
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Let's assume a fellow wanted to embark on a six months caddying sabbatical in celebration of his 60th birthday. Work with me here. A chance to get in shape, study a great course, live in a quaint location - preferably with a nearby beach for the Mrs., get as many rounds in a possible without alienating the existing caddy corp and recharge for the desk job stretch run. Where would you choose - worldwide, and why?
Bogey
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Seminole
The Country Club - Brookline
St. Andrews
Bandon
National Golf Links / Shinnecock
Cypress Point
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There's better courses but St Andrews in the summer has to be the best town for my money. For quality of life, it would be harder to beat.
My recollection of Bandon is that there's the local village but not much else...
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Not sure if they will have caddies (I assume they will), but the new Doak Course Tara-Iti about an hour northeast of Auckland would be my choice.
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Royal Melbourne....Melbourne, Australia
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Bogey - I sincerely hope that someone gets to live the dream. If it were me, I wouldn't put too high a premium on the golf course; I'd want my 'sabbatical' to be spent somewhere that I'd long to spend 6 months at...in my case, England, and in my case somewhere near the Costwolds, spending my leisure time looking at castles and taking walking tours through lovely little towns. Oxfordshire would be my ideal -- though I think only Huntercombe and Frilford Heath are 'there'.
Peter
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Let's assume a fellow wanted to embark on a six months caddying sabbatical in celebration of his 60th birthday. Work with me here. A chance to get in shape, study a great course, live in a quaint location - preferably with a nearby beach for the Mrs., get as many rounds in a possible without alienating the existing caddy corp and recharge for the desk job stretch run. Where would you choose - worldwide, and why?
Bogey
Great question. Quite a few years back I met a guy who worked for one of the big accounting firms. Apparently they were going through some downsizing. So, proactively the guy went to management and said "how about I work and only get paid 9 months?".
His logic was the firm would save money by avoiding pay people during slow periods, but could also retain the skill set they needed.
For his part, he needed the accounting job, but also liked the idea of caddying during summers.
The guy lived up in Greenwich, CT and caddied at Stanwich Club.
Kind of cool.
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Bogey - I sincerely hope that someone gets to live the dream. If it were me, I wouldn't put too high a premium on the golf course; I'd want my 'sabbatical' to be spent somewhere that I'd long to spend 6 months at...in my case, England, and in my case somewhere near the Costwolds, spending my leisure time looking at castles and taking walking tours through lovely little towns. Oxfordshire would be my ideal -- though I think only Huntercombe and Frilford Heath are 'there'.
Peter
You won't find any caddies at Huntercombe or Frilford I'm afraid. Nor almost anywhere in England for that matter. Sunningdale and Wentworth are the only places that have any sort of caddie corps.
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Let's assume a fellow wanted to embark on a six months caddying sabbatical in celebration of his 60th birthday. Work with me here. A chance to get in shape, study a great course, live in a quaint location - preferably with a nearby beach for the Mrs., get as many rounds in a possible without alienating the existing caddy corp and recharge for the desk job stretch run. Where would you choose - worldwide, and why?
Bogey
One thing to be sure to factor in if you do this is caddying playing privileges. Not sure how some of the more prestigious and topped ranked courses do it but I would throw Calusa Pines into the mix as they had 1-2 groups of caddies play at 3:00pm and as of 5 years ago when I was there you could normally get out 2 if not 3 times a week when you weren't looping. Not to mention great beaches and tons of great restaurants to take the Mrs. to with all that looper cash burning a hole in your pocket.
Also if you can swing being a "single bag special" you might find a spot easier in an established caddy corp.
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Hard to beat Cypress Point, assuming you can afford to live within 20 miles of the place.
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I think I would go for either Bandon, or somewhere in Ireland. Almost every caddy, I have had in Ireland added a lot to the day, they were funny, made fun of you and had a great time. If it were me, I would not want to caddy at a private club where members and their guests expected a buttoned down "yes sir" type of experience.
I figure if you are not going to go overseas, you could probably get away with that at Bandon.
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How about Cabot?
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Bogey man --
You've got me daydreaming! I love the idea.
Personally, I would keep moving.
One month in six different places.
Write six letters, explaining yourself to six club managers. Make six arrangements, with six different courses/resorts.
I don't know that they have any adult caddies at either place, but here in Minnesota, White Bear Yacht Club (quaint old-money getaway spot for St. Paulites) and Northland CC (Duluth; gritty-charming city by the Big Lake) would both fit most of your requirements, at least in the warm months.
Dan
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For me it would be hard to see beyond St. Andrews. Great courses with a diverse cliental and very good social side.
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One month in six different places.
He'd be a better caddy staying at one course, though.
How difficult would it be for Bogey to get a visa to caddy for 6 months in the UK, Australia or elsewhere?
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CPC , Pebble , Riv , or LACC- all places where the architecture is spectacular
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Never seen a caddy at Royal Melbourne.
Royal St Georges also has caddies, live in Deal and caddy at RSG and RCP.
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One month in six different places.
He'd be a better caddy staying at one course, though.
Well, sure -- but he'd be a WAY better caddie if he caddied there the rest of his life!
It's a lark we're talking about, isn't it -- not an attempt to groom an expert caddie?
(As for caddieing at the Old Course, the New Course, etc.: This winter, walking on the treadmill, I've been reading "An American Caddie in St. Andrews: Growing Up, Girls, and Looping on the Old Course," by Oliver Horovitz. Pretty well written, and more entertaining than your run-of-the-mill golf book. And sounds more true than most -- if not completely true.)
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Royal Melbourne....Melbourne, Australia
I think you would get lonely, since I have never seen a caddie at Royal Melbourne.
I was going to tell Michael to do three months in New Zealand and three in Bandon. A month at Durban Country Club would be a real eye-opener, too.
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Secession-Fun membership, easy walk, near the ocean, quaint town, good food, shopping, etc.
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I'd be curious to know if there'd be any visa, social security, tax etc issues involved in someone from a non-EEC country doing this in the UK.
Also, if you're say an overseas visitor on a once in a lifetime visit to play TOC and expecting/hoping your caddy to be some Scottish bloke with a strong nearly non-understandable accent who'll call you "Laddie" or "Lassie" and tell you tall tales and stories all day long but instead get some bloke carrying your bag who's from the same country/state as you are what your reaction would be.
Atb
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I'll offer Newport. Excellent beaches and restaurants. Providence is about a half an hour and Boston 1.5 hours, not to mention Cape Cod an hour or so. Not nearly as isolated as some of the other sites. Not as exotic but would be an excellent choice. As for quaint they have mansions...
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When would said sabbatical take place? Obviously the seasons would matter for some suggestions.
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As for quaint they have mansions...
I thought those were "cottages." LOL.
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Secession-Fun membership, easy walk, near the ocean, quaint town, good food, shopping, etc.
Mark,
The best caddy I ever had was at Royal Troon. The best in the US was at Secession. Not saying I loved the course, but there is something enjoyable about the place. Good choice.
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Somewhere in the summer where the days are long so YOU, the caddie could enjoy the golf and the area.
Caddying at Calusa Pines, or any other snowbird winter location, is going to allow little time to enjoy golf or anything else during daylight hours.
Believe it or not you're going to need to caddie when the course needs you to caddy, not just when you feel the desire to.
St. Andrews, Cabot, or Bandon would seem the most logical places,though my guess is Canada's a nighmare getting
working papers (my daughter lives in Canada and has dealt with the hoops) and St. Andrews may be the same.
So Bandon it is-playing priviledges, long days, interesting people, fantastic scenerey.
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Three years out with a lot of life to live between now and then. Great ideas thus far and I hope at least I've triggered a few imaginations in addition to my own.
The key factors would be simplitity and relative affordability. Goodbye Cypress Point and Seminole. Beyond that, a beach for the Mrs., a nice mixture of golfers and locals, fresh groceries and no automobile. Quaint protestant church with no holds barred preaching. Rail access to London might be the deciding factor. A comfy bed for my afternoon nap and a second bedroom for frequent visitors.
Chappers, Deal could be the early front-runner.
Bogey
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Cabot Links / Cabot Cliffs
Nice place to spend a summer for your wife - might matter more than you preferences - assuming you want to stay married.
Not hard to find a place for a reasonable rental "overlooking the ocean" for the full season.
People are friendly.
East cost of Canada is beautiful ...
The courses are both worth studying.
"They need caddies"
You have likely met the owner - helps get the position...
Sounds like fun.
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Hiya,
Our board is littered with people who have engaged a similar experience or swim in those waters regularly. It could well be done, within limits.
1. The idea of course hopping over the six months is nearly DOA; while some caddiemaster-starters "might" be OK with it, many would not. The basic ability that impresses most caddiemasters here (and abroad I reckon), is "avail-ability." The toughest job a club CM has is to maintain availability for a imprecise crowd, that even when they are scheduled, fluctuates. Even so, the caddie who secures such an arrangement is at the bottom of the totem pole each morning...if sitting on pines for 4-6 hours isn't one's thing. In the long summer hours of a place like Scotland, I understand that you can show up at 7 am...not get out until noon, get back in at 4:30...think you're done...and be asked to wait until 6:00 for a late-scheduled round/request, come home in the dark of 10:30...and back up at 5:30am for the next day, where you might get out once, after waiting until 2 o' clock for it.
2. That said, I have a close friend, a successful writer, who worked two or three seasons at St. Andrews, and was sometimes sent to nearby classic courses outside of the "auld grey toon" for odd assignments...so he got to see more than just one course, He knows everything about the whole of being an import into St. Andrews. If MH or anyone else wants to make a true inquiry, send it to me, as a message, and I'll have Don get back to you.
3. No matter what the technical details, the best shot one has is at a 36 hole (or greater) area of facility. If there's multiple courses on one club or within the neighborhood, there's a good chance to make it happen. the 36 hole courses I know best...WF, Baltusrol, Westchester employ caddies like M&Ms and are ready to accept such things. (Plus WF occasionally sends caddies to other courses clustered nearby when they can be spared...QR, stanwich, etc)
4. Not that this matters to the "dream" aspect of doing it, but...in Scotland, you're doing one bag (no doubles) for about $120-$150 per bag, twice a day means about $250-$300 on days you do two (which i'm told are frequent). In an American model, you'll more often do two bags at about $90-$100 per (both figures include tip), but much rarer to do two loops. But the days you are fortunate to get two assignments, it can be a sweet number, and you're sleeping real good.
5. Which kind of brings to mind the idea stated by many posters, that you're going to be "playing" quite a bit in whatever area you choose. If you're really caddying, and link up with a course and are being exercised...you have little time or energy to play much golf. It is a statement meant for intern professionals and other young golf staff, but its truth applies to caddies too, "If you want to play golf, don't get in the golf business." Through my work and contacts, I can play almost 75% of the courses in the classic Westchester-Fairfield belt...I never do. When I have really been working at golf five or six days a week, the last thing I want to see is a golf course on the sixth or seventh day.
6. Which leads to my last statement, in that I know the thread title wasn't meant in any charged or contentious sense, but I do take a bit of umbrage at the "Dream" portion of it. (I'm not accusing anybody of being an asshole, I'm just giving my perspective) I live this reality...five months caddying, 7 months adjunct teaching, with some crossover in April, May Sept and Oct. It would be more of a dream if I had some REAL money behind me or if I had the benefits of a tenure track as a teacher. As it is, I have neither and so the idea of HAVING to go pick that fruit off the tree everyday, without fail, grows more and more weighty each season. I have not been to a holiday barbeque or day baseball game in 20 years, I have no idea what people do on a summer weekend day, my yard is a mess, I haven't been to a beach since 1998. I both resent and love the rain, as a lost day and a day of rest...one injury, one torn meniscus, or Achilles's rupture, or wicked back problem (all of which is an occupational hazard) is a constant fright; I could be out of my house within 30 months if it was real bad. I haven't played pickup basketball or slo-pitch softball since the early 90s... I don't resent the term dream, because I know how much I love it and I know from where it comes. I would honestly STILL caddie 50 rounds a year if I hit the Powerball, I love it so much..but getting to serve on multiple boards with stock options-THAT is a dream...receiving $1000 every time I put my foot in a batter's box or throw a pitch...THAT is a dream. To be a department chair at a college...THAT is a dream. For these are dreams that allow many of the other dreams to be approached Caddying for six months is hardly a dream or a sabbatical in my eyes. I wish the thread read: "Sampling Something Possible I've Always Wanted to Try."
cheers
vk
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Royal Melbourne....Melbourne, Australia
I think you would get lonely, since I have never seen a caddie at Royal Melbourne.
I was going to tell Michael to do three months in New Zealand and three in Bandon. A month at Durban Country Club would be a real eye-opener, too.
Whilst not utlised by the Members, I believe there were about 150 caddy loops at RM in the previous 12 months (mostly guests from the United States and Japan).
There really are only two Clubs in Melbourne that offer a caddy service - RMGC and Metropolitan.
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Bogey
I have played courses where the young lads just don't caddie anymore so the women members are recruited.
St Enodoc is one of those places and it is a great summerring spot for the missus with connections to lLondon should she grow desperate
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I have never seen a White man caddie in Africa, except of course in some Club cross-over.
Have things changed?
Bob
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I would read VK's post repeatedly -- what's the saying 'a hard way to make an easy living'? Still sounds cool to me --I did a season as a golf bum in Vail working the green's crew and playing golf on what we called a turf museum which allowed me to play golf that was worth a lot more than my salary --cutting greens by 5 am and playing golf from 3 -dark most weeknights.
How about Traverse City area? You could probably split time between Crystal Downs and Kingsley (maybe even do some manual labor at Forest Dunes for Tom D), no idea what CD's caddy policy is but it's fairly liberal at Kingsley I think.
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Probably R150 for caddying at Durban Country Club.
Are Americans really paying (being ripped off for) £80-£100 a round in Scotland? £50 a round in Kent including tip.
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Somewhere in the summer where the days are long so YOU, the caddie could enjoy the golf and the area.
Caddying at Calusa Pines, or any other snowbird winter location, is going to allow little time to enjoy golf or anything else during daylight hours.
Believe it or not you're going to need to caddie when the course needs you to caddy, not just when you feel the desire to.
St. Andrews, Cabot, or Bandon would seem the most logical places,though my guess is Canada's a nighmare getting
working papers (my daughter lives in Canada and has dealt with the hoops) and St. Andrews may be the same.
So Bandon it is-playing priviledges, long days, interesting people, fantastic scenerey.
I'd highly recommend Nova Scotia. The people are really really nice and friendly and a lot of Irish and Scottish transplants. Halifax is a great city, I know that Inverness is some 3.5 hours to the North and I have never been there. So you can have small town and small city all in one. The summers are magnificent, plus you have long daylight. Jeff is right about work permits, they don't mess around. On my way up to Toronto to catch a flight i was detained in Windsor for not having work papers to caddie in the Woman's Canadian Open in Halifax. I was only going for a WEEK ::). I have many entertaining stories and great fun from that trip, and can't wait to go back. The locals made the caddies and players lobster, we had fresh salmon caught on the lake in the morning for bfest, and an open bar in the clubhouse. The Canadians there love their Tim Hortons, that is all they talk about.
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Probably R150 for caddying at Durban Country Club.
Are Americans really paying (being ripped off for) £80-£100 a round in Scotland? £50 a round in Kent including tip.
My friend Don was routinely earning £70 per bag at St. Andrews seven years ago...sometimes more, rarely less...i eyeball-adjusted that report for 2015. It may not exceed that figure and my adjustment could be too liberal. Of course St. Andrews sees a diverse and often a powerhouse visitor, so regardless of what is expected, nothing is "overpaying" for these types of visitor-players. Not every affluent person is like this, but there are guys who give their regular caddies $150-$200 per bag (100-150% more than standard) and it's like a moth flying out of Fort Knox to them. These fellows go to St. Andrews on a whim, they don't care if the whim part of it costs an extra $5000 to make it happen, they just do it. I caddy for a guy who is a "stock-broker to the stars" and has the world by the balls...one memorable time when he hosted the singer Graham Nash (from CSN) he gave me and another caddie $150 each to chase their carts around for 12 holes...then had Graham pay us each $200 more for the same effort, plus tickets and backstage passes for the upcoming show for the evening. I know this is far afield from the original topic, I'm just saying the economics can range between the wild and the pedestrian...
cheers
vk
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I would second the recommendation to re-re-re-read V Kmetz' initial post. Caddying sounds like a dream job for some of us....but its not like it looks on the PGA Tour. I set up a caddy program here in Melbourne 10 years ago and kept it going for 5 summers - mostly caddying for cart-addicted Americans struggling around, RM, The Heath & others on the Sandbelt. I was the ghost that Tom & others never saw. We maxed out at 200 loops a year total with me , a couple of regulars and a bunch of members' sons. Its hard work at the best of times but doing it in an Aussie summer, carrying a bag with waaaaaaaay too much stuff in it, for a golfer that blames you for giving him the wrong yardage for the 5 iron that he hits about 100 (but says he hits 180) and who cannot get it out of the bunker you tried to steer him away from......and the dream starts to become something else.
That said, I did have some great times but there was not enough work or $...and it is bloody tough on your body. It really is.
My genuine suggestion is to try it for a week somewhere close to home. Not caddying for a friend or your wife (they will be forgiving and empty out their bag). Offer to do it for the rudest, worst golfer with the heaviest bag you can find. If you really enjoy that.....go for it!
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How about Shoreacres? Easy walk, phenomenal track and there are worse things than spending a summer in Chicago. Think of all the free rounds, drinks and meals you could get from the windy city GCA crowd! 8) I would say Chicago Golf, but they don't even have air conditioning in the clubhouse, so I'm sure the caddie shack is a sauna...VK is correct; you have to consider the times you have to hang out all morning without getting out. If you really want to loop I'd recommend Bandon. We have several Bandon caddies posting here who I'm sure would happily give you the inside scoop.
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Seminole or Cypress. I have had the same dream.
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Never seen a caddy at Royal Melbourne.
Royal St Georges also has caddies, live in Deal and caddy at RSG and RCP.
Completely agree with Chappers. Deal is so charming.
Plus you're less than a 2hr hour train ride from London or Paris.
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I'm thinking as a general matter golfers treat caddies better in Ireland and Scotland than at the US resort courses.
Does Lahinch have a caddy program? Or a rota of Muirfield, N Berwick, Gullane, Renaissance?
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I'm thinking as a general matter golfers treat caddies better in Ireland and Scotland than at the US resort courses.
Does Lahinch have a caddy program? Or a rota of Muirfield, N Berwick, Gullane, Renaissance?
Matt,
Caddies in the US are treated very well. Depends where you are too. I've seen caddies flown on private jets with members to go play TPC Sawgrass and other courses. Cadding is a decent job for the most part, many play more top golf courses than the average guy at a CC. You got caddies making $100+ a bag cash. I used to make $120 a double, some caddies are doing well.
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I have never seen a White man caddie in Africa, except of course in some Club cross-over.
Have things changed?
Bob
I doubt it. That's why I thought it would be interesting, to see if they would even let him do it.
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How about Traverse City area? You could probably split time between Crystal Downs and Kingsley (maybe even do some manual labor at Forest Dunes for Tom D), no idea what CD's caddy policy is but it's fairly liberal at Kingsley I think.
The handful of caddies at Crystal Downs are all college or high school golfers, friends of the professional's kids, etc. It's not a real gig for someone to consider. But Mr. Hendren is always welcome to come and work with us for a spell. ;)
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The Hamptons would fit your criteria. Just be prepared to get a sore ass (sitting) and don't expect to be welcomed with open arms
by the guys in the yard.
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Can't add much to this thread as there is some great info.
My fantasy would be to go to Dornoch and caddy at RDGC.
From my most recent visit there, they need caddies. They have some sort of caddy academy or junior golf thing and we had some teenagers on our bags for a few rounds, but they were bag carriers more than caddys...;-)
Catch some loops at Castle Stuart and the off loop at Stibo. Live in Dormoch, rent David Tepper's house....;-)...pure bliss and better weather than most parts of Scotland.
However, since there are so many courses in and around St. Andrews, plus a vibrant university town, that may be tough to beat.
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The Hamptons would fit your criteria. Just be prepared to get a sore ass (sitting) and don't expect to be welcomed with open arms
by the guys in the yard.
Other than unaffordable living and the two things you just mentioned...... ::) ::)
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If you want the creature comforts you may look at Kinloch. Very active (95% walking) good money, close to beach (2 hours) moderate rate to live, close to home, etc. Let me know.
Lester
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I'm surprised you don't already know the answer to your question.
Obviously it has to be a place that uses caddies.
Chambers Bay is your ticket man! Best stretch of 6 months of weather available anywhere meeting your criteria. ;)
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Matt - not sure why golfers would treat caddies better in Scotland or Ireland, 99% of the golfers will be Americans so unless they've taken a holiday chill pill there should be no difference.
Now the way to make money is to forecaddie, most golfers don't need s caddie, they are just being lazy, especially with trollies and electrics trollies everywhere. What guys want is someone to show them the lines, read putts, hold flag, etc and tell them a few stories about the links/club. Charge players £15 each and that's a nice little non-backbreaking earner. I'd pay that in Scotland but certainly don't pay £50-60 for someone to carry my bag.
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Dornoch, hands down... Though something tells me 6 months would turn into 6 years (or longer).
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Dornoch or Bandon. Both places are magical.
Wherever you end up, consider the climate and terrain of the club. Remember, this is a job, a very physical job. Scorching temperatures and high winds can batter your body over a long period of time. As as teacher, I used to loop at several private clubs from May to September. My body took a beating. Invest in top tier sunglasses, rain gear and footwear.
Caddying is a great job, a fantastic way to slow down and simplify your life. I look back on my summers as an adult looper fondly.
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Daniel how long is the caddy earning season in Dormoch? I cannot imagine there is much work in early April or late October.
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Matt - not sure why golfers would treat caddies better in Scotland or Ireland, 99% of the golfers will be Americans so unless they've taken a holiday chill pill there should be no difference.
Now the way to make money is to forecaddie, most golfers don't need s caddie, they are just being lazy, especially with trollies and electrics trollies everywhere. What guys want is someone to show them the lines, read putts, hold flag, etc and tell them a few stories about the links/club. Charge players £15 each and that's a nice little non-backbreaking earner. I'd pay that in Scotland but certainly don't pay £50-60 for someone to carry my bag.
My nephew makes a decent living as a looper in Scottsdale in winter and Castle Pines in summer, and hasn't carried a bag in years.
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Hello again,
Having seen a volume of responses besides my own, and seeing where the thread was and where it has meandered, I'm inclined to say, to MH and all, that the most important emotional element of realizing this ambition is the desire to give people a better day at a place than they might have, without you... when this is joined with the delight, the reverie of golf as the "reason" for the engagement, you have a person emotionally suited to doing a stretch as a seasonal caddie.
MH contacted me privately when I made my first post, and we discussed the taking of "vicarious" pleasure in just the sheer conduct of golf; that, for my part, one reason I don't play much anymore is because that "Jones" is quelled by the direct engagement of 80 or 100 rounds of golf per year, times multiple players...I literally see 50,000 shots played a year, and am intimately involved in like 10,000 of them...multiplied by some 30+ years at this, and I mean what I say when I issue the cliche, "I've seen it 1000 times.," and so, even more amazed (but truthful) when I utter the other end of the cliche, "I've never seen that before."
Do you know how lucky I am, to have worked at this and loved golf? I've seen 31 aces, thousands of impossible bunker shots, scores and scores of improbable putts from beyond 50 feet, the lowest, best rounds of like 100 peoples' lives, more match reversals than Dan Jenkins, HW Wind and Darwin could account for in their combined oeuvres....as many different types and styles of play and swings that are known in the universe...incredible stuff...and that is before the reverence for the locii of golf-- the architecture, the traditions, the rules, the great players...
cheers
vk
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I'd suggest Ireland (Lahinch) or Scotland (St Andrews).
Don't go to The Hamptons, unless you're after a social experiment.
I heard about an American chap who is caddying in China- staying in the dorm rooms with the other caddies etc. Tough yakka but one way of learning Chinese...
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Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the ability to actually get a job caddying. Kind of like playing top tier private courses isn't a problem for some maybe getting a job at a great club won't be a problem either. In both situations I figure it's about who you know.
When I was in LA I made calls/sent e-mails/filled out applications at Riviera, LACC, Wilshire and Bel-Air on multiple occasions over four years. Never got a job.
VK I've only taken a caddy a handful of times but know I've never had a caddy that has the same perspective on the job as you do. I also figure there have to be days as a caddy even you don't feel so lucky. You allude to the things you miss out on but figure there are worse experiences. Someone who would be caddying as part of a dream will clearly have a different experience/perspective in their six months than you have had in 30+ years.
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Hiya,
JT, I cannot deny that to secure a post in a top-tier area/ or club, it helps immeasurably to "know somebody." However, my experience is that the best type of reference for a "cold-call" of the sort you were referencing in your LA time, is to have letter(s) of reference from some authoritative source nearer your home...a club president, a former caddiemaster, a home pro, an industry figure of note.
And you know how you get those? By being a competent caddie for some measurable stint in the "minors" first. That is the 800 lb context gorilla in the room in making this attainable desire into a reality.
Even with a superb background in golf, an able body, and a long-ago history as a caddie working your way through college (or caddying for a few good amateurs/pro buddies in tournaments) you are not going to hop off the couch and just start pitching in the major leagues at a place with brisk business. How the hell does one know if you are going to be worth the trouble?
One ad-hoc function I perform besides looping at WF (where I only make 25-35 of my annual 80-100 loops) is occasionally helping the caddiemaster, nearly a career-long personal friend of mine, screen the 10-20 inquiries he gets from afar...ever year he gets "resumes" from GBI and Europe, other great courses in the States, etc. We both look at these things, and see so many that are "thin" - just perfunctory...a guy you can almost hear the applicant saying, "Hey that would be cool to caddie at WF...I hear they pay good..." when they don't realize he really calls these places up and talks for a half hour on the phone or several emails.... Knows the great roster of courses and noted caddie programs, where his members play elsewhere, and asks about their experiences at club X where the app is coming from, whether that member thought the caddie program there is any good at all, etc.
I admit that potentiates really have to "hunt" him down, but that's the way he wants it; and in all but in one case did the doggedness with which he and WF were pursued by Candidate X make the final call on a new guy, who had otherwise competent credentials.
I'm pleased that you see my attitude towards the job as rare, because I think it is; yet along the way, I find that the most able of caddies I've served with had some central holding just like it...we like the game and we like the people who like the game enough to share it with us for sustenance.
But I fairly conscious of why that is, and how exactly I arrived at this disposition. And yes, there are times when I don't feel so lucky, and its usually on the way to the club, or leaving it...and I'm thinking about money woes and loop money that's already spent...rarely on the course itself. I have never rejected the investment of a person wanting to have a good day, but I occasionally have either failed or turned into a silent bag-toter to a man that could or would not be reached. As I advance in years, I'm not so eager for the odd novice who picks up at 9 on every hole as I may have been...and I caddie less and less for 50-80 year old women, so I do not become discouraged (that's one allowance my veteran status affords me).
Oh yes, and the second loop on the three (3) holiday Mondays (Mem. Day, 4th of July, Labor Day) is chasing carts for 6-somes, 3 husband-wife pairs, sometimes playing with an opposite spouse, Pinehurst, 1 gross and 3 net prizes, by 6-some, and by pairs, so every hole must have a result...in recent years my tolerance has gone way down for this by the 7th hole of the day. Last year it started to rain on our 5th hole of the shotgun...I had them in the clubhouse with two atomic-stiff drinks in their hand before they could even say the word, "Umbrella..."
cheers
vk
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8) ;D
Pine Valley ...Jersey Shore in summer was pretty hard to beat . Particularly at age 18-23
If you caddy at a place without the same members every day it's really a blessing . They need you more
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Does Yeamans Hall have a significant caddie program? If so, living in Charleston or near one of the beaches would probably satisfy the other criteria you listed.
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If you want a great city where there are plenty of clubs employing caddies, you can do worse than Chicago. Lake Michigan is nice in the summer, restaurant and music scene is great and all the clubs have vibrant caddy programs. I concede that it isn't Dornoch but its pretty good.
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Fantastic thoughts, gentlemen. I hoped you've enjoyed the thread as well.
I'm thinking the Mrs. and I will visit Dornoch next year for a scouting trip. It's the clear front-runner.
Many thanks,
Mike
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:D ;D
Good luck Michael , sounds like a great adventure!
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Fantastic thoughts, gentlemen. I hoped you've enjoyed the thread as well.
I'm thinking the Mrs. and I will visit Dornoch next year for a scouting trip. It's the clear front-runner.
Many thanks,
Mike
Michael,
For all things Dornoch do speak to David Tepper.
Bob
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"For all things Dornoch do speak to David Tepper"
Bob H. -
Some things maybe, but certainly not all things. ;)
DT
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I'm thinking as a general matter golfers treat caddies better in Ireland and Scotland than at the US resort courses.
Does Lahinch have a caddy program? Or a rota of Muirfield, N Berwick, Gullane, Renaissance?
after playing Lahinch I thought it would be quite a cool place to retire /work part time
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Brentwood CC up the street from Riviera had a walk up caddy program and many of the adult age caddies worked at Riviera and LACC, Bel Aire etc.
Great area to live and great weather.
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Hasn't gca'er Stan Dodd caddied both at CPC and Dornoch?
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Pete L. -
Don't know about CPC, but Stan D. has caddied many, many times at Dornoch.
DT
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Does Yeamans Hall have a significant caddie program? If so, living in Charleston or near one of the beaches would probably satisfy the other criteria you listed.
There are no caddies at YHC. You can carry your own, a pull cart or ride.
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Melbourne Sandbelt
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Does Yeamans Hall have a significant caddie program? If so, living in Charleston or near one of the beaches would probably satisfy the other criteria you listed.
No, Yeamans Hall has no caddies... but, The Ocean Course at Kiawah does and the course is walking only in the mornings.
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Mr Bogey,
How was the Caddy sabbatical? Was Dornoch the course?
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Mr Bogey,
How was the Caddy sabbatical? Was Dornoch the course?
Sorry but the only place Micheal H. caddied was at Chipolte. In other words he stalked the stalls with his thumb firmly planted on the 911 speed dial.
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stay in Nairn and mix it up between it and castle Stuart. gateway to the highlands and an easy trip up to Dornoch. Doesn't get dark till about 2200 so plenty of time for work and play.
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:o 8)
Secession sounds good ! If you love the game , what would be much better than St Andrews, weather notwithstanding .
Don't know that it's as easy to get employment as it used to be .
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I'd be curious to know if there'd be any visa, social security, tax etc issues involved in someone from a non-EEC country doing this in the UK.
Also, if you're say an overseas visitor on a once in a lifetime visit to play TOC and expecting/hoping your caddy to be some Scottish bloke with a strong nearly non-understandable accent who'll call you "Laddie" or "Lassie" and tell you tall tales and stories all day long but instead get some bloke carrying your bag who's from the same country/state as you are what your reaction would be.
Atb
I had this experience in 2011 when playing TOC...our caddie was from Woburn, MA about 15 miles from where we live, and a student at the University. While initially annoyed at losing the opportunity of talking St. A's with a local looper, we were shit-talking with this kid before our second shots on #1, talking Red Sox/Patriots, getting to know what led him to the school, etc.
Usually it takes a few holes to figure out what kinda guy you have that day, but this was like playing with one of my cousins. Had a great time regardless!
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I briefly considered caddy in at a course in the wider Michiana region, but I'd probably end up with an immigration lawyer. "Thanks for the read on 15, but I need to call DHS."
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Secession-Fun membership, easy walk, near the ocean, quaint town, good food, shopping, etc.
You could split your time b/w Secession and Chechessee Creek - there is a lot of good golf in the area.
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My first choice would be Nanea - really good golf and you can't beat the weather or views in Hawaii.
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This will seem like a hometown answer but in Scotland, North Berwick wins over St Andrews or Dornoch every time given your criteria.
You could easily pick up 10-15 loops a month at North Berwick without putting any local noses out of joint. You know your tee times for the whole month in advance, easy walk, cool holes to study and great views. Caddy 2 rounds at Muirfield most Tuesdays and Thursdays. No waiting around, quick rounds, championship course and the clientele that brings.
St Andrews is an awesome town but as a caddy, less so. 180 other guys waiting to get out....lots of waiting and pretty territorial.
The other upside of North Berwick v Dornoch or St Andrews is for your wife- better beach, train just 30 minutes into Edinburgh, less of a hardcore golf town, lots of other non-golf activities.
Edinburgh now has the most Michelin star restaurants in the UK, outside of London. And many more that I class as better without the piece of paper.
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Simon: my father occasionally allows him to day dream about buying a house in North Berwick. If I moved back to the Edinburgh area and worked in town, I'd consider buying there.
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I used to hate it when I would ask a question and someone would give me answer to a different question, without telling me they had reformulated the question.
I've traveled quite a bit and when I first went to New Zealand, I met 20 somethings on holiday work visas which sounded like and interesting adventure for me, in my early 60s at the time. I quickly found out I did not meet age criteria. In some countries like Australia where there are electronic visa applications, the limits of what you can and cannot do are spelled out. I've done repeated trips to Ireland and Australia and have spent over 18 months in the last eight years or so overseas, mostly on golf trips, with three of 27 not involving some to a great deal of golf.
With that in mind, let me ask if you had considered a golf sabbatical trip and not considered caddying part of the experience? I say that because there are quite a few areas of Ireland, Scotland, and Australia where golf is quite reasonably priced and long term rentals can be found. The coasts of all the countries are incredibly beautiful and the people are friendly and engaging. By considering two different hemispheres, you could take three months in the northern hemisphere and three in the southern hemisphere with a break in between.
If you selected a destination like County Donegal, Sligo, or Mayo in Ireland or Inverness/Dornoch/Cruden Bay in Scotland or the Mornington Peninsula in Australia, there are an abundance of very good courses that won't cost a tremendous amount of money. The downside of golf in New Zealand is the spatial separation of the quality courses and the expense associated with playing the best courses.
Charles Lund
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The hardest part with caddying jobs outside of your country of citizenship is the visa. In my experience caddying in Ireland, you're technically an independent contractor and therefore the club won't help you get a work visa. The key is finding a club/caddymaster who doesn't really care about the visa.
I know it's the same at St. Andrews but they do require the work visa to loop there. As a guess, I'd say that this will be an issue that most courses would overlook in successive seasons if you do a good job.
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Hunter with £20,000 fines per illegal worker I cannot imagine there is a UK golf club willing to take the risk that a caddie isn't classed as an employee.
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Mark - I've never seen a caddy at Deal. Is there really some work there?
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Fantastic thoughts, gentlemen. I hoped you've enjoyed the thread as well.
I'm thinking the Mrs. and I will visit Dornoch next year for a scouting trip. It's the clear front-runner.
Many thanks,
Mike
In my experience, Dornoch does not have a ton of caddies.
PM me for info.
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Hunter with £20,000 fines per illegal worker I cannot imagine there is a UK golf club willing to take the risk that a caddie isn't classed as an employee.
I can promise you that the courses I've looked into do not consider caddies to be employees of the club. I can't comment (and wouldn't if I could) on whether or not any of them choose to walk that line from a legal standpoint.
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I'm guessing you can count the clubs in the UK that class the caddies as official employees on one hand. Virtually all of them are "independent contractors" but at the same time, a foreign national would obviously have to have the right to work......officially.
Cash is king!
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Caddies at St Andrews are "independent contractors" (or at least were in 2007) and not employees. I can't remember if anyone checked my visa when I first signed on there in 2007. For the record it was in order (at over $900 it would have wanted to be).
Over my 6 months in St Andrews I found that I actually enjoyed caddying more than playing myself. Sadly I haven't caddied since but the wish to do so before my knees fail me is still there. I very much liked Mr Kmetz's attitude to caddying and dearly hope that anyone I caddied for had a better day due to my presence. For me that was the goal, unless they were one particular golfer I recall whose bag weighed a ton and was cheating the way around the course. I'm not sure whether I broke some ethical code or not but his playing partners were made aware of his loose relationship with the rules.
There was certainly a section of the caddy shack that saw golfers as a mark and good only for the purpose of squeezing every pound they could from them. This set of caddies were very much in the minority but I cringed at the way they would almost make fun of their own golfer whilst putting their hand out for a steep fee & tip.
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I'm guessing you can count the clubs in the UK that class the caddies as official employees on one hand. Virtually all of them are "independent contractors" but at the same time, a foreign national would obviously have to have the right to work......officially.
Cash is king!
Simon,
the club would still be liable for checking that the 'independent contractor' has ALL the necessary paperwork. However, if the caddie is only or mainly working at one club then he would have to be employed by the club. The authorities are pretty hot on this in most of the UK these days.
Jon
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Wow. This is the first I have ever heard of this. I find it hard to understand when surely the club don't pay the caddie a salary?
I can't think of one club in Scotland or Ireland where this happens but thats not to say it doesn't.
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Wow. This is the first I have ever heard of this. I find it hard to understand when surely the club don't pay the caddie a salary?
I can't think of one club in Scotland or Ireland where this happens but thats not to say it doesn't.
Simon,
just to clarify, if the caddie is paid by the player direct then the club is probably not liable to employ them but would still have a responsibility to ensure that the caddie has all the necessary paperwork. But if the club take the money from the player and then pass this on to the caddie that is basis for employment if I understand it correctly. Of course I might be wrong :-\
Jon
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Simon: my father occasionally allows him to day dream about buying a house in North Berwick. If I moved back to the Edinburgh area and worked in town, I'd consider buying there.
I took the train from North Berwick into the central station in Edinburgh and recall it wasn't more than a 30 minute trip. That be a worthwhile commute!
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Fantastic thoughts, gentlemen. I hoped you've enjoyed the thread as well.
I'm thinking the Mrs. and I will visit Dornoch next year for a scouting trip. It's the clear front-runner.
Many thanks,
Mike
In my experience, Dornoch does not have a ton of caddies.
PM me for info.
I played golf a couple of weeks ago with a part time Dornoch caddy (ie. student) who suggested that the number of Dornoch caddies had decreased in the last couple of years because rounds were getting so long they weren't able to get two rounds a day in. This at a time when the demand this year at Dornoch is up 30% (according to this student/caddy).
Niall