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GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Stephen Pellegrino on January 21, 2015, 05:33:29 PM

Title: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Stephen Pellegrino on January 21, 2015, 05:33:29 PM
The Boston 2024 organizers are evidently proposing TCC as their golf venue for the 2024 Olympics. Looks like Gil Hanse has an opportunity to be involved with two Olympic venues...

http://olympictalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/boston-2024-olympics-bid-presentation-documents-informataion/related/
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Benjamin Litman on January 21, 2015, 05:38:49 PM
Unless the IOC comes to its senses after next year and limits the event to amateurs, I can't imagine anything that would make Mr. Ouimet roll over more in his grave...
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on January 21, 2015, 06:06:23 PM
Why would Ouimet roll over in his grave?

TCC has hosted the pros before, including a full-field US Open in 1988 and a Ryder Cup in 1999.

Ouimet was well-known for being "for golf" more than anything his entire life...so I think he would be proud for TCC to host the first US Olympic golf in 120 years.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Terry Lavin on January 21, 2015, 06:32:31 PM
One would surmise that the club can host a big event!
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Benjamin Litman on January 21, 2015, 06:49:28 PM
Fair points, Brad, and I don't claim to be a Ouimet historian, but if he was truly the Father of Amateur Golf, I'm sure he would have viewed the Olympics, long heralded as the premier showcase for amateur athletics, as the ideal platform for his passion--and therefore would have been at least somewhat disappointed to see that platform transformed into another professional tournament on a course where his amateur status was put into sharpest relief.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Terry Lavin on January 21, 2015, 07:36:19 PM
Olympic gold will likely be a colossal dud, especially since the pros will play (under a form of duress) and because they're supposed to go with stroke play. But maybe us archie hobbyists will enjoy Gil's Rio routing and maybe the other venues will be inspirational. A guy can hope, after all.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Chris Kane on January 21, 2015, 11:19:42 PM
Would Olympic golf really be enhanced by restricting it to amateurs, which would make it a de facto u/21 tournament with barely any players who are legitimately in the top 1000 golfers in the world?

The amateur ideal which Benjamin talks about is an utter anachronism, and the Olympics would be completely irrelevant if it were still an amateur event. The world has moved on from a century ago. And if Ouimet were alive today he would have turned pro. 
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Lawrence on January 22, 2015, 05:11:45 AM
Unless the IOC comes to its senses after next year and limits the event to amateurs, I can't imagine anything that would make Mr. Ouimet roll over more in his grave...

I have no idea why people keep raising the idea of limiting Olympic golf to amateurs. Does anyone really believe it is conceivable that golf would have been accepted into the Games if the proposition was to have people no-one had ever heard of playing for the medals?
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Warren on January 22, 2015, 08:51:22 AM
I know we all like speaking in the hypothetical realm, but I can't imagine a scenario where Boston gets this Olympics.  They just aren't set up to host an event of this magnitude.  I don't care if they have 10 years to prepare.  Boston is not a good location.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Dan_Callahan on January 22, 2015, 09:28:10 AM
If Athens and Rio made the cut, there's no reason to think Boston wouldn't. Boston could host the Olympics this summer and be better prepared than either of those hosts. Given the politics behind the selection, it's impossible to know which way the decision will go. Boston might not be the best choice, but it's a hell of a lot better than venues that have been chosen in the past.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Jon Cavalier on January 22, 2015, 03:03:00 PM
I don't much care who plays (pro or am) or where it is (TCC or TPC), but for the love of god, please make it match play.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Mark McKeever on January 22, 2015, 04:21:29 PM
I don't much care who plays (pro or am) or where it is (TCC or TPC), but for the love of god, please make it match play.

+1000
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Tim_Weiman on January 22, 2015, 05:05:06 PM
Would Olympic golf really be enhanced by restricting it to amateurs, which would make it a de facto u/21 tournament with barely any players who are legitimately in the top 1000 golfers in the world?

The amateur ideal which Benjamin talks about is an utter anachronism, and the Olympics would be completely irrelevant if it were still an amateur event. The world has moved on from a century ago. And if Ouimet were alive today he would have turned pro. 

Chris,

Sounds like you have never been to a Walker Cup. Much better than the Ryder or Presidents, IMO. But, I would be inclined to ban professional golf if made King, so you probably won't agree with me.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Warren on January 22, 2015, 05:19:18 PM
If Athens and Rio made the cut, there's no reason to think Boston wouldn't. Boston could host the Olympics this summer and be better prepared than either of those hosts. Given the politics behind the selection, it's impossible to know which way the decision will go. Boston might not be the best choice, but it's a hell of a lot better than venues that have been chosen in the past.
I see your point, but from a social standpoint I think you would agree most of Athens and Rio for the most part are open, receptive, and happy to have the world in their city to host the Olympics.  I'm not trying to offend here, but I just don't think Bostonians for the most part would be as receptive to having the world in their city.  Couple that in with the way Boston is set up, and I just don't know if I can see it.  Willing hosts will be crucial, and Bostonians aren't always known for their hospitality.  I have a good friend from the area, have been there a couple times, and have met a number of nice people from Boston, but I am doubting they are happy about the prospect of an Olympics in their town. Maybe I'm way off here.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Chris Kane on January 22, 2015, 05:37:36 PM
Chris,

Sounds like you have never been to a Walker Cup. Much better than the Ryder or Presidents, IMO. But, I would be inclined to ban professional golf if made King, so you probably won't agree with me.
Tim, with very few exceptions the players turn professional afterwards!

I haven't been to a Walker Cup, but quite enjoyed it on television. Is it really the "amateur" thing which elevates the tournament (hardly any of the players are what you would define as a true amateur anyhow), or the fact it is played at spectacular courses in front of a genteel crowd?
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Mark Steffey on January 22, 2015, 05:44:35 PM
....... I have a good friend from the area, have been there a couple times, and have met a number of nice people from Boston, but I am doubting they are happy about the prospect of an Olympics in their town. Maybe I'm way off here.

if they hold the golf at george wright or ponky and put a couple million in either of those, i'm good.  if they are going to tcc, i'm out  :P
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Mike_Young on January 22, 2015, 07:21:59 PM
Why???
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Charlie Ray on January 22, 2015, 07:52:43 PM
2 points/questions

1-who/why/where/how did 72 hole stroke play become the standard.  (TV, which had a play in it,   which makes zero sense because Jimmy Walker up by 7 strokes with an hour and half of viewing doesn't make for the best television)    I am asking for a link more than an opinion.

2.  Why do the Olympics embrace professionals, although the truth to their bylaws shoves it under the rug?  Yes we all know its   MONEY      Tiger and Rory vs. Juan Filappe & Philippe Suarez!!!  http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/22/opinion/greene-olympics-amateurs/

Olympic Golf, what a waste...    especially for architecture.      We on GCA would go bonkers discussing the merits of an alternate shot, team, Walker Cup format,  because the features of the course would be discussed,     but it will deflate itself to Bubba vs Sergio vs Martin vs Singh and commentary about swing speeds and launch angles, mirroring the reality that US weekly, the Sun and other garbage outsells great periodicals like The Economist, Wired, etc)    Maybe FOX will win the American broadcasting rites over NBC and then we will have something unique to say.

Nobody is listening but,  IOC please do something creative.  Even if it means going back to the historical roots of your institution.

 
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Tim Martin on January 22, 2015, 08:01:27 PM
If Athens and Rio made the cut, there's no reason to think Boston wouldn't. Boston could host the Olympics this summer and be better prepared than either of those hosts. Given the politics behind the selection, it's impossible to know which way the decision will go. Boston might not be the best choice, but it's a hell of a lot better than venues that have been chosen in the past.
I see your point, but from a social standpoint I think you would agree most of Athens and Rio for the most part are open, receptive, and happy to have the world in their city to host the Olympics.  I'm not trying to offend here, but I just don't think Bostonians for the most part would be as receptive to having the world in their city.  Couple that in with the way Boston is set up, and I just don't know if I can see it.  Willing hosts will be crucial, and Bostonians aren't always known for their hospitality.  I have a good friend from the area, have been there a couple times, and have met a number of nice people from Boston, but I am doubting they are happy about the prospect of an Olympics in their town. Maybe I'm way off here.

Adam-I have to say that I marveled at the ignorance of your post when I read it. A couple of visits to Boston qualifies you to make those statements? Come on man you have to be kidding right? ::)
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Charlie Ray on January 22, 2015, 08:12:07 PM
Tim,
Unfortunately perceptions are perceptions and Bostonian's aren't known for their hospitality,,,  sorry, just a southerner chiming in.  You can shoot back with all the SEC superiority football stuff if you wish.  We are becoming equally arrogant.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Tim Martin on January 22, 2015, 08:22:16 PM
Tim,
Unfortunately perceptions are perceptions and Bostonian's aren't known for their hospitality,,,  sorry, just a southerner chiming in.  You can shoot back with all the SEC superiority football stuff if you wish.  We are becoming equally arrogant.

The only people that I have seen treated with disdain are those that are sporting Yankee and Giants swag. That's how you get the "Bronx Cheer" in Beantown. ;)
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: jim_lewis on January 22, 2015, 09:15:34 PM
The fans in Boston demonstrated at the Ryder Cup that they don't know how to act at an international event. Heaven help us if they were to host a world-wide event.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on January 23, 2015, 01:48:13 AM
TCC in 2024 or not has turned into "Bostonians hate others"? Get a grip fellas.  Comparing southern hospitality with that of any northeastern city is ludicrous.  It's the same as "perceptions are perceptions, but Boston isn't known for its warm year-round weather."

Boston's people being hospitable has nothing to do with getting the Olympics...the effort so far has been mostly a private venture...much to the chagrin of the local (small but vocal) anti-Olympics group.

How close are we to turning this into deflated football talk?
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: jim_lewis on January 23, 2015, 07:43:07 AM
Hi Brad:

I agree with a couple of your points. It is ridiculous to compare Southern hospitality with that of any Northeastern city, and hospitality has nothing to do with getting the Olympics.

Actually I am not referring to "hospitality". I prefer to think in terms of good manners and politeness.

When I attended the 1988 US Open at The Country Club, I witnessed the rudest behavior by a gallery I had ever seen, up to that time. Then the gallery took it to another level in the 1999 Ryder Cup. Of course, the NY fans were not to be outdone as judged by their behavior at Shennecock and Bethpage.

I am a hockey fan, and I like rowdy, boisterous hockey fans. Golf is not hockey. Some of the fan behavior(and the fans themselves) at those events would have been appropriate for a hockey game, not a golf tournament. In my opinion, that sort of "bad manners" is embarrassing to the game and to most American fans of golf, at least old farts like me.

The Olympics have evolved into highly nationalistic events, much as the Ryder Cup has. I fear that with competitors from countries all over the world, golf at the Olympics will be much like the boxing events.

Jim
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Dan_Callahan on January 23, 2015, 09:11:59 AM
Tim,
Unfortunately perceptions are perceptions and Bostonian's aren't known for their hospitality,,,  sorry, just a southerner chiming in.  You can shoot back with all the SEC superiority football stuff if you wish.  We are becoming equally arrogant.

And the south has a pretty solid reputation for racism, but that didn't prevent the Olympics from going to Atlanta. If the selection is going to be based on the personalities of the locals, we ought to just hold every Olympics in Ireland.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: BCrosby on January 23, 2015, 09:36:14 AM
Crusty Jim says, "The Olympics have evolved into highly nationalistic events, much as the Ryder Cup has. I fear that with competitors from countries all over the world, golf at the Olympics will be much like the boxing events."

I couldn't agree more. Rabid nationalism and golf do not mix well.

Bob
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Warren on January 23, 2015, 10:05:36 AM
If Athens and Rio made the cut, there's no reason to think Boston wouldn't. Boston could host the Olympics this summer and be better prepared than either of those hosts. Given the politics behind the selection, it's impossible to know which way the decision will go. Boston might not be the best choice, but it's a hell of a lot better than venues that have been chosen in the past.
I see your point, but from a social standpoint I think you would agree most of Athens and Rio for the most part are open, receptive, and happy to have the world in their city to host the Olympics.  I'm not trying to offend here, but I just don't think Bostonians for the most part would be as receptive to having the world in their city.  Couple that in with the way Boston is set up, and I just don't know if I can see it.  Willing hosts will be crucial, and Bostonians aren't always known for their hospitality.  I have a good friend from the area, have been there a couple times, and have met a number of nice people from Boston, but I am doubting they are happy about the prospect of an Olympics in their town. Maybe I'm way off here.

Adam-I have to say that I marveled at the ignorance of your post when I read it. A couple of visits to Boston qualifies you to make those statements? Come on man you have to be kidding right? ::)

I guess my ignorance has been picked up by others in this thread.  The Ryder Cup being mentioned provides an excellent example.  I have my own experience as well as the opinions of Bostonians of which I respect their opinion to base my remarks on.  That's good enough for me.

As for the southern comparison and racism....excellent point to take us back to the 60's.  Atlanta being a major market filled with people from all over the world and all races, that point hardly lands. 
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Dan_Callahan on January 23, 2015, 10:18:00 AM


As for the southern comparison and racism....excellent point to take us back to the 60's.  Atlanta being a major market filled with people from all over the world and all races, that point hardly lands. 

Really? Let's play Family Feud with people from other parts of the world. Ask them the top 5 things they think of when they hear: The American south is ...?

100% chance "racist" is in the top 5.

Not saying it's fair. Just saying that if you're going to deny Boston as a host because New Englanders have a "reputation" for not being hospitable, you should probably disqualify the South as well.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: PCCraig on January 23, 2015, 11:03:23 AM
The Country Club is a very worthy potential host site of the Olympics. If the Olympics do indeed head to Boston, it would be great to see the world's best golfers playing such a great classic golf course.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on January 23, 2015, 05:16:29 PM
I dunno...I was 7 in '88 so I wasn't there...sounds like my grandparents marshalling one of the holes had their hands full.  I had tickets in '99, but alas, I made my college golf team as a freshman and had to play a tourney at Taconic.

Bostonians like to have a good time, sometimes at the expense of being proper.  This is why sports fits us so well...even though we may be confused when Curtis Strange isn't allowed to cross-check Nicklaus in the chin, or when Gentle Ben can't send a goon after Jose Maria in exchange for 5 minutes in the box for a 4th liner.

Sorry (the royal) we ruined your time at TCC...you'd have more fun at the Bruins!  I think Mass has one of the country's more avid golf communities, as we value our rounds more than down south because we have 4 months/year where playing at all is difficult.

What is lost is TCC has undergone a terrific tranformation to maintain its challenge and its historical integrity, as the amateur showed.  Not speaking for the club, but I might guess newer blood on their committees would jump at the chance to have the Olympic tourney/matches at TCC.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Warren on January 26, 2015, 09:10:14 AM


As for the southern comparison and racism....excellent point to take us back to the 60's.  Atlanta being a major market filled with people from all over the world and all races, that point hardly lands. 

Really? Let's play Family Feud with people from other parts of the world. Ask them the top 5 things they think of when they hear: The American south is ...?

100% chance "racist" is in the top 5.

Not saying it's fair. Just saying that if you're going to deny Boston as a host because New Englanders have a "reputation" for not being hospitable, you should probably disqualify the South as well.

Ever heard of the term "Southern Hospitality?"  That is probably a more likely term someone has heard than "Southern Racism."  Ask some 30 somethings and younger which they have heard more about.  That's stuff we learn about in the history books.  Just like the Boston Tea Party.  Unfortunately, thats not what I think of when talking about Boston.  I enjoy Boston, but from an outsiders persepective, especially as a foreigner, I don't see it being a healthy environment for an Olympics.  I have my opinion and I share said opinion with a number of Bostonians.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Mike_Young on January 26, 2015, 11:26:44 AM
Tim,
Unfortunately perceptions are perceptions and Bostonian's aren't known for their hospitality,,,  sorry, just a southerner chiming in.  You can shoot back with all the SEC superiority football stuff if you wish.  We are becoming equally arrogant.

And the south has a pretty solid reputation for racism, but that didn't prevent the Olympics from going to Atlanta. If the selection is going to be based on the personalities of the locals, we ought to just hold every Olympics in Ireland.
The South has no more racism than anywhere else in the US....actually I think the "busing issue" was in Boston...right???  I tire of hearing about all the racism in the South and then go to places like Northern Michigan and realize there is no racisn there only because there was never a need....and a few of my friends of color have come back to the south because they feel racism is much less a facotr here than in other parts of the country. 
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: JMEvensky on January 26, 2015, 11:34:44 AM
Tim,
Unfortunately perceptions are perceptions and Bostonian's aren't known for their hospitality,,,  sorry, just a southerner chiming in.  You can shoot back with all the SEC superiority football stuff if you wish.  We are becoming equally arrogant.

And the south has a pretty solid reputation for racism, but that didn't prevent the Olympics from going to Atlanta. If the selection is going to be based on the personalities of the locals, we ought to just hold every Olympics in Ireland.



The South has no more racism than anywhere else in the US....actually I think the "busing issue" was in Boston...right???  I tire of hearing about all the racism in the South and then go to places like Northern Michigan and realize there is no racisn there only because there was never a need....and a few of my friends of color have come back to the south because they feel racism is much less a facotr here than in other parts of the country. 


The worst racism I've ever witnessed was a Celtic/76er playoff game at Boston Garden. I heard things shouted at Moses Malone I'd never heard before--and I grew up in Memphis.

Boston and the South are just like every place else.

Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on January 26, 2015, 11:47:11 AM
I think the racism angle is moot at this point for South or North in the US in terms of this argument.  It's the same important problem everywhere.

What I take issue with is the thinly-veiled "People from Boston are d*cks" idea from a few in this thread.  I've never been compelled to say anything against anyone's city on GCA...

Please define "healthy environment".  And if Boston is an "unhealthy environment," does the Olympics have a recent history of avoiding "unhealthy environments?" (Athens, Beijing, Sochi...)  I'd say Boston's plan is 10x healthier than any of those...

So the locals are only 50-50 so far...if Boston gets it, the dissenters shrug and grumble...it's not like they are assaulting visitors!  As for Boston "not being set up to handle the Olympics"....the Plan involves about 75% pre-existing venues, with a swim center, velodrome, and main stadium the major construction points.  The swimming and velodrome goes to one of the local colleges (they will share funding I believe), and the Olympic stadium is partly funded by the Krafts to eventually be the soccer stadium for the Revolution.  I'm relatively indifferent to the whole idea, but I think the Plan is sound and has addressed many of the initial concerns of the public.

AGAIN, I will try to bring it back to GCA by saying that TCC is head and shoulders the best venue, if golf is still an Olympic sport by then.  Maybe have the men play at TCC, and the women at Essex, home of the Curtis sisters and the recent Curtis Cup?
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: David Whitmer on January 26, 2015, 11:50:57 AM
Just an honest question, as I don't live in Boston: in 1988 and 1999, the US Open and Ryder Cup were THE sporting event going on at the time, and as such they seemed to bring a few very vocal idiots as spectators. But if the Olympics are in Boston, and there are many sporting competitions going on at the same time, might the very vocal idiots go elsewhere, leaving more die-hard golf fans to go watch the action at TCC?
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Dan_Callahan on January 26, 2015, 01:59:43 PM

What I take issue with is the thinly-veiled "People from Boston are d*cks" idea from a few in this thread.  I've never been compelled to say anything against anyone's city on GCA...


This is what I was trying to get at. I'm not saying I think the South is racist. I'm saying the South has had a reputation for racism. They started a war over it if I'm recalling my history classes correctly.

My point being that the"reputation" of a site has clearly NEVER been a factor in selecting an Olympic host. Nazi Germany? Communist China with all their human rights issues? Sochi?

Boston is no better or worse than any of the other options in terms of the personality of the locals. There are incredibly nice people in Boston and there are dicks. Traffic would be an issue, but no worse than it's been at other recent locations. With all the college facilities available, there is less of a need to build new stuff for a once-in-a-lifetime event. So we wouldn't be throwing away money as so many countries do for the prestige of hosting an Olympics.

In my opinion, it would be a major headache, but it would be amazing.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Amol Yajnik on January 26, 2015, 02:34:00 PM
Just an honest question, as I don't live in Boston: in 1988 and 1999, the US Open and Ryder Cup were THE sporting event going on at the time, and as such they seemed to bring a few very vocal idiots as spectators. But if the Olympics are in Boston, and there are many sporting competitions going on at the same time, might the very vocal idiots go elsewhere, leaving more die-hard golf fans to go watch the action at TCC?

I would agree with this, and also say that a fair number of residents would choose to leave Boston for the duration of the Olympics and rent their places out to tourists as well. 

To bring it back to golf, I do wonder how the Olympics in 2024 affect the possibility of TCC getting the US Open in 2022.  It seemed like the USGA was pleased with how the golf course played during the 2013 US Amateur, but hosting the US Open on that property would have to be Merion-like in terms of attendance and where they would set up hospitality and such.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on January 26, 2015, 08:49:53 PM
I like Dan's last sentence!  My opinion exactly.

Also, Amol brings up a great point.  If the powers-at-be at TCC that have turned around the stance of "no more major events" get the Olympic tourney, I cannot see two huge events like that going to the same course within 2 years...I doubt even the club would be fired up about that.

All guesses though...I don't pretend to know the actual thoughts of the TCC leadership.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Warren on January 27, 2015, 08:42:16 AM
I obviously didn't say I don't like Bostonians or think they are all d**** since I have several friends from there and have largely enjoyed my trips there (though it has been several years since my last trip there).  Some of those other places mentioned, there aren't a ton of suitable options in those countries, maybe one or two more.  My argument is Boston is well down the list of suitable cities in the US to host an Olympics.  Why go on down the list like that?  To avoid going back to somewhere we have been before?  I'm not sure thats a great argument.  Would it be great to see the northeast get an Olympics?  Absolutely.  Do they deserve one?  Absolutely.  Are the cities in the northeast set up well for Olympics?  That's a tougher question...

Wouldn't TCC be basically the only spot worthy of consideration for the Olympics in Boston?  Any other places?
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Lawrence on January 27, 2015, 08:48:13 AM
Unless the IOC comes to its senses after next year and limits the event to amateurs, I can't imagine anything that would make Mr. Ouimet roll over more in his grave...

I have no idea why people keep raising the idea of limiting Olympic golf to amateurs. Does anyone really believe it is conceivable that golf would have been accepted into the Games if the proposition was to have people no-one had ever heard of playing for the medals?

Exactly. It shouldn't be an Olympic sport at all. Tennis hasn't worked, soccer hasn't and neither will golf.

Erm, Brian, you are aware that football has been an Olympic sport since the second modern Games in 1900?
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Amol Yajnik on January 27, 2015, 08:31:42 PM
I obviously didn't say I don't like Bostonians or think they are all d**** since I have several friends from there and have largely enjoyed my trips there (though it has been several years since my last trip there).  Some of those other places mentioned, there aren't a ton of suitable options in those countries, maybe one or two more.  My argument is Boston is well down the list of suitable cities in the US to host an Olympics.  Why go on down the list like that?  To avoid going back to somewhere we have been before?  I'm not sure thats a great argument.  Would it be great to see the northeast get an Olympics?  Absolutely.  Do they deserve one?  Absolutely.  Are the cities in the northeast set up well for Olympics?  That's a tougher question...

Wouldn't TCC be basically the only spot worthy of consideration for the Olympics in Boston?  Any other places?

Did you miss where the US Olympic Committee took proposals from 4 cities and then earlier this year decided that Boston was their nominee?  The other cities that submitted proposals were Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Washington, DC.  Obviously I'm biased because I live here, but to say that Boston is "well down the list" is just not right, at least in the US Olympic Committe's opinion.

Re: other courses in the Boston area, there are few courses around here that could realistically handle the modern male professional game.  Obviously, TPC Boston is where the PGA Tour plays every year, but I can't imagine a scenario where Olympic golf is played in July or August and then the regular PGA Tour tournament at TPC Boston comes on Labor Day weekend in the same year.  Brad brought up having the men play one course and the women play another course, but I doubt the organizing committee would have that type of vision.

Perhaps they could widen their scope and play at a course that was pretty far away from metro Boston, but one of the big things they have stressed is a "compact" games in terms of where the venues are, and TCC far and away fits that criteria compared to other top courses in the area.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on January 28, 2015, 01:53:45 PM
I suppose they could use the International...no shortage of length there.  Could also spread the even over two courses on site.  The Pines would have to be renovated though...much of it is pleasant but boring.

There really aren't other venues other than TPC, TCC, or the above.  Even if you go 100 miles in every direction, there still are very few.

Could resurrect the Ponky Bethpage-treatment idea...that would be fantastic someday but would only mean more spending for the Olympics...
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Warren on March 24, 2015, 04:58:09 PM
Posted without comment.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/sports/olympics/in-reversal-boston-2024-wants-a-vote-on-the-olympics.html?_r=0&referrer=
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Sean_A on March 24, 2015, 08:13:58 PM
Its pretty obvious the Os are not the pinnacle (or even close) for mens soccer...waste of time in the Os so far as I am concerned...same for basketball...same for tennis.  The only sport which has its pinnacle clearly outside of the Os which works is hockey...and that is mostly because of Cold War hatred (even boxing is dull these days), the international flavour of the players and hockey's minority status as a major sport...but remember, for most people even hockey doesn't matter.  Golf doesn't belong in the Os either...its more about supposedly growing the game...same ole crap from the talking heads.  

Oh, btw - Boston does suck...more specifically the Bs and their supporters  ;)  

Ciao
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Jon Wiggett on March 25, 2015, 06:44:27 AM
Brian,

I think football has got it just right at the Olympics in that it is the younger players that are involved. Golf would be the perfect sport if they kept it to the amateurs and not the professionals. I agree with you on tennis but there is the crux of the issue. The Olympics has become so big an undertaking it has to make massive amounts of money to pay for itself. It needs the big names to boost the TV and sponsorship franchises.

Jon
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Ryan Hillenbrand on March 25, 2015, 05:24:17 PM
In the politically correct climate of the Olympics, I would assume a new course or a drastic re-do would be required in order to add a female designer to the mix.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Stephen Davis on March 25, 2015, 09:17:30 PM
Posted without comment.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/sports/olympics/in-reversal-boston-2024-wants-a-vote-on-the-olympics.html?_r=0&referrer=
I live where the U.S. Olympic Commitee is located and the people who I know that are highly involved in the Olympics are very unhappy with the organizers of the Boston bid. Every voting member I have talked to is especially frustrated because in their minds LA was the best place for the U.S. to get the bid, however, politics took over and Boston got the nod. Hind site is 20/20 as they say.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Warren on March 26, 2015, 07:49:31 AM
Not seeing a lot of those that were disagreeing with me about Boston residents wanting an Olympics rushing to discount the article I posted...
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Mark Steffey on March 26, 2015, 08:57:16 AM
Not seeing a lot of those that were disagreeing with me about Boston residents wanting an Olympics rushing to discount the article I posted...

the slant on the offer to put this on a ballot was only "after the cmte has a chance to make their case" which means business as usual through 2015 and maybe a ballot spot in 2016 at the earliest.  so this is a long way away and the hacks in position now will be paid handsomely for 'work' the next 18-36 months.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Dan_Callahan on March 26, 2015, 11:01:18 AM
Not seeing a lot of those that were disagreeing with me about Boston residents wanting an Olympics rushing to discount the article I posted...

Not sure who this is directed to, but I certainly never said anything about whether or not there is support for the Olympics among Bostonians. In fact, a majority of my friends think it would be a huge pain in the ass. I, on the other hand, am willing to deal with the gridlock and logistical mess that occurs at ALL Olympic venues if it means having the event so close to home.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on March 29, 2015, 10:12:20 PM
I never disagreed with the temperature of Boston residents towards the Olympics...it was 50/50 in January when I posted.

I would say the same thing as Dan...I think it would be pretty cool, but not the end of the world if we didn't get it.



And Sean...last time the B's and Wings played who came out on top??  ;)  I'd talk more smack, but the B's have too many injuries this year...
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Anthony Butler on March 31, 2015, 12:13:03 PM
The Olympics (possibly) coming to Boston and selecting a site for the tournament (assuming golf is still part of the Olympics) are two separate issues aren't they. One a lot more complicated than the other.  

Having attended the Atlanta Olympics and worked on the Sydney Games, I was quite surprised by the lack of gridlock in each city during the Games.. Sydney almost resembled a ghost town on certain days.. and when crowds did assemble they mostly came by public transport and left in an orderly manner. Atlanta's famed traffic jams, which usually hit their peak at the intersection of i75/i85, about a mile or so away from Turner Field, were also mostly absent.. It's almost like the Games scares off anyone who is not a competitor, IOC official, volunteer or amateur boxing aficionado.

Whatever infrastructure was built for these Games seems to have been mostly integrated into the city's facilities... The Braves got a new baseball stadium, so that worked out well for them.. Stadium Australia took over from the SCG and the Football Stadium in Moore Park as the premier venue for big football matches of every code. Boston does not have a professional sports team that needs something the scale of an Olympic Stadium. There has been some talk about downsizing the Olympic Stadium into a permanent home for the Revolution nearer to Boston than their current home at Gillette Stadium. That would be a sensible idea if it can be pulled off. The Revs would need a 40,000 seat stadium max...

The newish Boston Mayor Marty Walsh, on first appearance, seems to be a caricature of the kind of Irish kid who would be throwing bricks through bus windows in Southie. I had the opportunity to speak with him at an event last year, however, and he impressed me as a thoroughly modern guy in tune with the people and ideas of this city.. He wants the Games, but recognizes he also needs the support of the residents to make it happen... it will be interesting to see the politicking around this issue between him and Charlie Baker over the next year before it goes to a vote.. As long as Martha Coakley doesn't come out in support of the Games, it still has a chance of happening in Boston..  ;)

On the matter of tournament venue... Tokyo will probably do a decent job hosting the event at an existing course.. which would probably be a better guide for Boston than what they are doing down in Rio..The 2020 Tokyo site (Kasumigaseki Country Club) is approximately 45 miles from downtown Tokyo, so if that's the radius the IOC is working with, it brings other courses into consideration, but only the TPC Boston has the infrastructure to handle a tournament of this scale. Depending on dates, that would throw the Deutsche Bank tournament scheduling into doubt for that year as well.

The resistance of The Country Club to this scale of event has more to do with the logistics outside the club.. They were fairly happy to host the 2013 Amateur.. But it attracted crowds of no more than 5,000 on any one day, with very little corporate presence.. There is simply nowhere to put the vehicles once you run out of spots at BC and other colleges in the area.. the Putterham Meadows arrangement was a disaster for the club.. so they would need some relief on that front before they stepped up to the plate.

Unlike the Tokyo Games course, which will undergo a renovation and lengthening with Tom Fazio, TCC had some work done to the Championship course prior to the 2013 Amateur, so very little needs to be done to make the venue tournament-ready..
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Cliff Hamm on April 02, 2015, 03:59:50 PM
http://www.mynegm.com/golf/whats-news/ponkapoag-golf-course-has-olympic-dreams/
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Mark Steffey on April 02, 2015, 04:11:18 PM
http://www.mynegm.com/golf/whats-news/ponkapoag-golf-course-has-olympic-dreams/

amen
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on April 02, 2015, 04:33:29 PM
So many things have to happen before that becomes an issue....and Ponk was well-mentioned by Mark earlier in this thread.

But THAT would be the story of the 21st century in New England golf.

As an aside, I didn't know they were planning on resurrecting the defunct holes of Course #1, that should be good...#1 was always better than #2 anyhow.  Ponky holds a spot in many hearts for many reasons, but many of us competed in the CYOe Tournament in our junior days...for alot of guys it was the lowest key of junior tournaments so less pressure than a junior am qualifer or NEPGA Jr. tour event....and it was unique that the entry age went up to 21 not 17/18 like all the others.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Anthony Butler on April 02, 2015, 08:15:31 PM
http://www.mynegm.com/golf/whats-news/ponkapoag-golf-course-has-olympic-dreams/

I'm going to assume this article was simply posted 24 hours late..
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Mark Steffey on April 13, 2015, 05:18:10 PM
Boston's mayor was on a sports radio show this morning and let out that TCC is on board with hosting
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Amol Yajnik on April 29, 2015, 05:28:55 PM
2 articles out today saying that The Country Club is the likely site for the 2022 US Open:
http://brookline.wickedlocal.com/article/20150429/NEWS/150426258
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/04/29/the-country-club-open/E0yVvxBAX3Ep9tvyTlCpXO/story.html#

A formal agreement between the club and the USGA has to be reached by October 31 of this year.

For the sake of this thread, here is an interesting comment in the first link from a member on the club's board of directors with regards to the Olympics:
Quote
Selectman Neil Wishinsky asked David Chag, general manager of The Country Club, and Will Fulton, a member of the club’s board of directors, if the club was also in discussions to host the golf event in the 2024 Olympics, which Boston is in the running for. The Boston 2024 bid identified The Country Club as the venue for golf.
Fulton said The Country Club has not had any conversations with the Olympic committee yet, but said the club did receive a call about a year ago asking if they would be interested in hosting the Olympics golf tournament.
“The next thing we know, we’re in the book as the place that will host the golf tournament,” said Fulton.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Howard Riefs on May 29, 2015, 09:15:20 PM
"Brookline Town Meeting Thursday night voted to formally oppose Boston 2024’s bid to host the Olympic Games, and urged Brookline’s local and state representatives to actively resist the plans."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/28/brookline-town-meeting-vote-opposing-olympics-bid/EddmEYhmaMBpBMSNvt9q7O/story.html# (https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/28/brookline-town-meeting-vote-opposing-olympics-bid/EddmEYhmaMBpBMSNvt9q7O/story.html#)

The bid itself looks to be unraveling fast:

http://nyti.ms/1HBsQJB (http://nyti.ms/1HBsQJB)
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Mike_Young on May 31, 2015, 09:46:39 AM
"Brookline Town Meeting Thursday night voted to formally oppose Boston 2024’s bid to host the Olympic Games, and urged Brookline’s local and state representatives to actively resist the plans."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/28/brookline-town-meeting-vote-opposing-olympics-bid/EddmEYhmaMBpBMSNvt9q7O/story.html# (https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/28/brookline-town-meeting-vote-opposing-olympics-bid/EddmEYhmaMBpBMSNvt9q7O/story.html#)

The bid itself looks to be unraveling fast:

http://nyti.ms/1HBsQJB (http://nyti.ms/1HBsQJB)

They should.  It makes no sense and golf might not even be ab Olympic sport by then anyway.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Adam Warren on June 01, 2015, 09:03:16 AM
Locals against the Olympics?  Surely not... ;)
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Anthony Butler on June 04, 2015, 02:31:37 PM
"Brookline Town Meeting Thursday night voted to formally oppose Boston 2024’s bid to host the Olympic Games, and urged Brookline’s local and state representatives to actively resist the plans."

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/28/brookline-town-meeting-vote-opposing-olympics-bid/EddmEYhmaMBpBMSNvt9q7O/story.html# (https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/28/brookline-town-meeting-vote-opposing-olympics-bid/EddmEYhmaMBpBMSNvt9q7O/story.html#)

The bid itself looks to be unraveling fast:

http://nyti.ms/1HBsQJB (http://nyti.ms/1HBsQJB)

Not surprising.. There's a lot of Brookline residents who don't like the Country Club for reasons that are easy to imagine if you know Boston well... Also no party emerged from the Putterham Meadows (Brookline town-owned golf course) fiasco after the Ryder Cup feeling good about how things ended up.

The Games bid itself does seem to be going through some hiccups as well. They replaced the lead guy (John Fish) with someone from the Celtics.. Larry Lucchino has also got involved.. Perhaps he just wants to get as far away from the fact he put Ben Cherington in the GM position when the Red Sox season goes up in flames....

Hanley Ramirez in left field???  Like Presidents, just because the first guy worked out OK, that's no excuse to put another guy with the same name in the job...  
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Amol Yajnik on July 27, 2015, 02:44:28 PM
Boston2024 bid is dead: http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2015/07/27/boston-2024-eulogy/


No need for The Country Club to worry about 2 big tournaments in 3 years.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on July 27, 2015, 03:07:10 PM
I'm really neither for nor against the Boston Olympics, so not fighting either way.  My commute will be destroyed by it if it happens, but whatever.


Mayor Walsh today said that "he was not signing the bid document that puts Boston taxpayers on the hook for Olympic cost overruns"


Fine and good...but according to the bid documents (or so I've heard), the ultimate authority on that decision lies with the Governor of Mass., not the Mayor of Boston.


Also, there are reasons to believe this is a media ploy..."I will fight for you Boston" says Walsh...the Boston residents says "wow they are finally listening to us, Mayor Walsh is our guy"...  Then Boston2024 rolls out the insurance plan on Thursday to save the taxpayer overrun risk in hopes of turning the tide of public perception.  "Look Boston, we did what you asked, aren't we great?  Get on board!!"


There will always be skeptics, so I doubt it will be enough to turn the tide of public opinion.  Interesting moves though...we Massholes love a good political dustup, sometimes just for the sake of debate.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: JLahrman on July 27, 2015, 03:13:40 PM
I don't much care who plays (pro or am) or where it is (TCC or TPC), but for the love of god, please make it match play.

I don't think it needs to be match play, but I do think it should be a TEAM competition.

I actually would like the format of the old Dunhill Cup event, before it went to a pro-am. Have three (or maybe five) man teams from each country. A round robin format where the five-man teams play individual matches (Dunhill used medal, could be medal or match) and then a team wins the match 5-0, 4-1, or 3-2.

Then the best teams advance to elimination play in the same format. Medals go to countries, not individuals.

I'm also indifferent to pro vs. amateur, and to be honest I don't think golf needs to be in the Olympics at all. But if they're going to have it, let's have a team competition instead of yet another 72-hole stroke play event. Anything but the majors bores me to tears to watch. No reason to reuse the same format.
Title: Re: The Country Club as a potential Olympic site in 2024
Post by: Brad Tufts on July 27, 2015, 04:51:43 PM
Nevermind...ESPN reporting the USOC has severed ties...so it's dead as a doornail!