Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Scott Macpherson on December 16, 2014, 05:36:20 AM
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In the UK there are a number of Golfing Societies. The closest one to me here in Edinburgh is known as the Pirates Golfing Society. I believe it was established around 1927 and has around 60 members who play matches against each other and other societies. I am interested to learn what other golfing societies exist. e.g. the Hittite Golfing Society from Liverpool.
Are there similar golf societies in the US?
Scott
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The Quaysiders Golfing Society in Newcastle was originally formed of business men based around the Quayside. It has a couple of annual meetings and a dinner.
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Scott what is the difference between a club and a society?
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Joe - generally speaking, a golf society over here is a bunch of people who are connected in some non-golfing fashion who form an organisation to play golf together. They'll hold events at different clubs, though a lot of the older ones have long-standing arrangements with particular clubs for an annual meeting. They might be based around a profession - a good example is the Press Golfing Society, www.pressgs.com (http://www.pressgs.com), which was founded by a group of national newspaper journalists back in 1904.
Whereas a golf club is what you know as a golf club. Typically a club will have its own course, while a society doesn't, though there are a few groupings that we'd now identify as golf clubs that have the word 'society' in their name, just to confuse matters - for example the Royal Burgess in Edinburgh. And, of course, there are some clubs that don't own their own course but have rights to play over one or more owned by someone else - the St Andrews clubs are the most obvious example, as the Links is owned by the town.
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Scott
There are tons of golf societies. Are you just looking for the high end/good player societies or all societies?
The Leatherjackets play out of Burnham & Berrow. Its one of these societies for older very good golfers, same for the Warwickshire Bears, Wighorns is another. There are a ton of school and military societies.
Near to Liverpool, the NARWAL GS is traditionally based in north Wales..hence the name...I think.
Moles GS.
Golf Society of Great Britain is a more social society which doesn't take connections for members to join. Its probably the most active society in the UK.
In the US, we are in the middle of formalizing the Detroit GS - a very small, select group of gentlemen :D
Ciao
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As Sean says, there are hundreds of golf societies, ranging from long established high-end groups with rituals bordering on the Masonic, to those whose members just happen to drink in the same pub.
I know many keen regular golfers who play only society golf, not even contemplating club membership. By being members of several societies and running a Golfshake handicap, they play 30- 40 competitive rounds a year on 30-40 different courses, paying maybe £20 each time.
Clubs are so keen to attract the society shilling, that they lose sight of the fact that the more opportunity there is to play golf regularly and competitively as a non-club member, so the attraction of club membership dwindles even further.
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Duncan/Sean - if you reread Scott's post, he's asking specifically about US societies.
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Conrad Gamble, not a GCAer but a regular Pest, is a member of the Motor Trades Golfing Society, which has a very impressive trophy cabinet and meets several times a year. Their fixture list features St Georges Hill, West Hill, New Zealand and Walton Heath. In previous years they have been to Hankley Common, Worplesdon and Woking.
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Duncan/Sean - if you reread Scott's post, he's asking specifically about US societies.
If you re-read it REALLY CAREFULLY, you'll see he is asking about both the UK and US!
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Adam,
Not entirely true;
In the UK there are a number of Golfing Societies.
I am interested to learn what other golfing societies exist.
Are there similar golf societies in the US?
Scott
;)
Bah! Mark beat me to it!
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true :)
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There might well be more golfing societies in the US than in the UK. They're just called 'golf clubs' or 'clubs without courses.' As in the UK they can be organized of coworkers, non-golf clubs, mutual interest organizations, etc.
Mike Whitaker I believe runs one.
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Duncan
You are right. I play in one society where perhaps half the members only play social, non club golf. They won't get much mileage out of this society for golf because we only play one event a year and one match a year, both at Kington.
Whitty's golf society is proper and above board. It isn't one of these 9 hole league jobbies.
Ciao
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Hi Chaps,
My post was just a question. I know many contributors to GCA know more about this topic than I, and I thought others might like to learn more about this British institution which now has spread around the world.
I have a new found interest in society golf as I have recently been invited to join a golfing society made up of golfers who are/have been low handicappers. I know relatively little about society golf other than that there are a great number around the UK, and they have been active for a long period. Indeed the R&A was initially known as the Society of St Andrews Golfers prior to becoming a club in 1834 – a point Adam makes in his reference to the Royal Burgess Golfing Society.
Feel free to comment on golfing society golf as you wish. Duncan's comment was an interesting contribution, as is the comment from Mark and Sean who name a few more societies.
Scott
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Here's one to aspire to.
http://www.seniorgolferssociety.com/
They have a desirable list of venues. playing amongst old friends.
Note the fact they are oversubscribed and you can only enter the ballot 6 times. I first heard about them from a rather nervous chap who was on his 5th life.
Lets just say that if you've played in the Halford Hewitt you shouldn't be short of sponsors.
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Mike Whitaker's group is the Greenville (South Carolina) Golfing Society, and he organizes an ambitious schedule of events every year. My twisted knee caused me to have to withdraw from his three day event at Myrtle Beach, still disappointed about that.
I don't know of many, or even any, other societies in the US, unless the weekly nine hole after work leagues could be considered as societies. They typically play one nine on the same public course after work, mostly in the northern US during the warmer months.
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Scott
As well as the trade societies and professional societies, there are also a number of societies around that are for the great and the good of the game. Sean mentioned the Moles which I think is one. The society in the west of Scotland that comes into that category is the 32 Club which was started by several west of Scotland players who were returning from the Walker Cup (?) in 1932. The club has several meetings/outings year at the likes of Prestwick/Troon etc, and have regular fixtures round the country against similar societies.
Membership is by invite and generally is restricted to county players, club champions etc. Monty is the honarary professional and I think I'm right in saying his father is a member. I'm fortunate to know a few members and regularly get invited to their annual dinner which is not to be missed.
Niall
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I don't know of many, or even any, other societies in the US, unless the weekly nine hole after work leagues could be considered as societies. They typically play one nine on the same public course after work, mostly in the northern US during the warmer months.
Bill, here for example are the member clubs of the MGA -- the "E" designation in the far column are "eClubs":
http://www.mgagolf.org/mga_member_club_list
Randomly selecting Claddagh Golf Society from the list, here's their October calendar, complete with a closing day event that includes a dinner dance:
http://claddaghgolf.org/uploads/2014_Schedule__R2_.pdf
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The Walking Golfers Society in the US. thewalkinggolfer.com
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The Outpost Club is the only national golfing society that I know of in the US. To a large extent it was patterned after the golfing societies in the US.
Other than that the only thing I know of is the NJ Seniors, which is a golfing society of mostly country club members in NJ over age 60.
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A society is a group of golfers who benefit from a reduced green fee by visiting a Club at the same time.
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The Northern California Golf Association has quite a number of member Associate Clubs that are roughly similar to the UK golfing societies.
These are clubs that do not have an affiliation with any particular golf course, but are formed about a common interest other than golf (i.e. working for the same company, practicing the same profession, having the same ethnic heritage, etc.). These clubs typical organize outings & events at various courses in the area. Members of these Associate Clubs are able to establish and maintain a handicap thru these clubs.
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A society is a group of golfers who benefit from a reduced green fee by visiting a Club at the same time.
On one, very basic, level. Other societies, such as some metioned here are nearer clubs with no home.
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The Dinner Match Club based around Boston is an exceptional band of brothers who play foursomes, enjoy fine wines and cigars and play some of the best courses in the state.
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I'm sure if someone did a count there would be thousands in the States. We'd probably call them associations. As David T. mentioned, a lot are affiliated with State or regional golf associations that represent the USGA locally. We run a handful of events every year for various groups like tournaments for couples, employee groups, intercity club comps, etc. that are a bit different from corporate events because the associations are made up of volunteers like charity groups. If we are typical, multiply our 5 events or so events a year by the number of public and private courses in the US and you have a gaggle of groups. Add in the golf leagues, charity groups, corporate outings and it represents a large, important market for golf.
For example, I was at Pebble a couple of weeks ago and they were running a multi-day tournament for LA firefighters and EMT's that has been going on for forty years.
Obviously, filling up your golf course is good for business. Selling your services to groups creates opportunities for your food and beverage folks to operate efficiently, unlike the ebb and flow of daily tee sheet play which just doesn't put enough butts in seats to pay for the labor and overhead.
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There are dozens of societies affiliated to the Scottish Golf Union and they’re listed annually in the SGU Official Yearbook.
Amongst the usual suspects (pun intended) this year - which included Tayside Police, Fife Constabulary, Strathclyde Police and Lothian & Borders Police - was one that caught my eye in Perth & Kinross called The Honourable Company of Glencarse Golfers. :)
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There might well be more golfing societies in the US than in the UK. They're just called 'golf clubs' or 'clubs without courses.' As in the UK they can be organized of coworkers, non-golf clubs, mutual interest organizations, etc.
Mike Whitaker I believe runs one.
Our society, the Greenville Golfing Society, was formed in 2002 after a trip to Scotland where we learned about the concept. We called the USGA and they said we could form a club of the type they then called "golf club without real estate." It is now called a "Type II," I believe. The GGS is a member of the SC Golf Association and the USGA, so we function basically the same as any private club in the state.
As Sean would say, we are a "proper" club with a tournament committee, handicap committee and board of directors. We have weekly games and a full slate of events including a club championship, matchplay championship, and several one-day member/member or member/guest competitions.
As much as I would like, I don't "run" the club. I'm a past president and currently serve as the treasurer.
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Should there not be a golfclubatlas society, dedicated to the appreciation of what we know to be quality golf. Meet up a few times a year at venues to drool over, play, drink, discuss the next venue. ::)
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Scott
The two leading seniors golfing societies in the UK are:
uksga.co.uk
ssgs.co.uk
If you want to play Internationally for Scotland, England or Wales, you need to be a member of at least one of them. Each runs 10-15 competitive 36-hole competitions yearly at a variety of seriously good golf courses.
Rich
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I suspect the US would not have many, due to perception and lack of access to decent courses.
in the US and Aust, we would just call them social groups and they would be resigned to public tracks, resort or lower end private clubs. But the UK, some of them are quite well regarded. The Lucifer Society for example is very exclusive with membership being extremely sought after.
And of course they do at times play on the best tracks. I was a member of the London Stock Exchange Golf Society and we played on Sandwich, Deal, Walton Heath etc, as well as the Carlton Club Golf Society and we had annual matches on Rye, Swinley, Woking, NZ etc
This regard stems from their age and membership. In many cases, the membership is made up of the great and the good, and they are very old at times. The Royal Perth Golfing Society dates from 1824 and was the first ever club to be accorded the Royal Title in the UK - it has a clubhouse but has never had a course.
This would be impossible to replicate in the modern age without a course attached
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The Royal Perth Golfing Society dates from 1824 and was the first ever club to be accorded the Royal Title in the UK - it has a clubhouse but has never had a course.
This would be impossible to replicate in the modern age without a course attached
Hi Josh,
Thanks for your contribution. I am always happy to have a royal club brought into a thread, but just to avoid any doubt for those who don't know, that while the Perth Golfing Society started in 1824, it only gained the royal title in 1833 – and at that point in time became the first golf club or society to be awarded the honour. (Sorry for being a bit pedantic)
Scott
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Scott - the MCC (Melbourne Cricket Club) has a society of sorts - but not strictly by name.
A sub-group of MCC members routinely play together, and travel the sandbelt, and other higher-end private Club courses each year, and usually play both Kingston Heath and Royal Melbourne as a bigger day throughout their year. I think the MCC refer to the group as the Golf Section.
I'm sure Australia has several golfing societies.
There's a book in this - the histories and intricacies of some societies would be very interesting to explore.
MM
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Of course the Society of Hickory Golfers is based in the USA.
Australia is home to the Australian Golf Heritage Society and The Golf Society, both devoted to the history of the game in Australia.
MM
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There's a book in this - the histories and intricacies of some societies would be very interesting to explore.
MM
Hi Matthew,
If there is a book in this subject, I can guarantee it won't be me who writes it – but I'd be interested to buy it. Anybody interested in taking up the challenge....?
Scott
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Here's one in southern New Jersey:
http://sjgolf.com/
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Around Liverpool/Manchester/Cheshire there are a number such societies, such as the Blasters and the Hittites, but you have to be a good player to get in - many ex Oxford or Cambridge Blues, ex county amateurs and so on. The Blasters, for instance, play matches in a team of six whose combined handicaps must be lower than 20. Prestbury used to have an unofficial team which visited the USA every other year, playing against Pine Valley, Winged Foot, The National, Shinnecock etc. On the alternate years a team would come to England from the States playing matches against Lytham, Hoylake etc and, finishing up at Prestbury. The level of golf was high, and the level of dining as fine as it comes.
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Not its original intent but I would submit our own GCA, and we are all better for it.
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There are two golf societies in the Philadelphia area - Ozone Club and Divotees - of which members are Quaker.
There was a similar thread on this topic seven years ago: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32244.0.html
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Aust has very strong reciprocal links between clubs that is somewhat unique in world golf, so there is a strong incentive to actually join a club rather than simple a social group or society as you then get access to say 20 other clubs. Bit like joining Shinnecock and as a result having defacto membership at Cypress, Chicago, Oakmont, Augusta, LACC and Seminole. Lots of annual matches between these reciprocal families around the country, at least at the top end.
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Also, in the NY Metro area. Stationers GA is perhaps the most open such society. I joined awhile ago for a few years and played Quaker Ridge, Sunningdale and Metropolis in Westchester County, among others. Each event was similar to a one day member-guest with lunch before golf, dinner after and prizes. I don't know if they still exist as their website hasn't been updated since 2012:
http://sgagolf.net/
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Matthew the MCC here has around 1500 members of the golf society and approximately 50 golf days, the same number of matches and 4 or 5 tours each year. One of the most fun days was playing against the Judges of the Old Bailey at New Zealand proper old school. The society dinners in the Long Room are pretty special as well.
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The Dinner Match Club based around Boston is an exceptional band of brothers who play foursomes, enjoy fine wines and cigars and play some of the best courses in the state.
Mark,
This is a very well written and interesting account of a Dinner Match Society meeting which I found after doing a Google search. It's definitely worth a read.
http://jpandgoldyontheroadagain.tumblr.com/post/23609663325/slumming-it-with-the-dinner-match-society (http://jpandgoldyontheroadagain.tumblr.com/post/23609663325/slumming-it-with-the-dinner-match-society)
You are right. It seems they do play a lot of good courses around the Boston area.
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Anyone who knows Jamie and Goldie - and many here do - will know they would have fitted in well with the Dinner Match guys.
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Should there not be a golfclubatlas society, dedicated to the appreciation of what we know to be quality golf. Meet up a few times a year at venues to drool over, play, drink, discuss the next venue. ::)
Marc, we already do that in the form of the King's Putter, Dixie Cup, Midwest Mashie, Thaw Out, and the international meeting every year in the UK, the Buda Cup. Come play in one, it's typically a lot of fun and a chance to meet some GCAers face to face.
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Should there not be a golfclubatlas society, dedicated to the appreciation of what we know to be quality golf. Meet up a few times a year at venues to drool over, play, drink, discuss the next venue. ::)
Marc, we already do that in the form of the King's Putter, Dixie Cup, Midwest Mashie, Thaw Out, and the international meeting every year in the UK, the Buda Cup. Come play in one, it's typically a lot of fun and a chance to meet some GCAers face to face.
Don't forget the 5th Major! ;D
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New golf societies are cropping up all the time, aided by the internet and the level of communication it offers.
This is just one example - they seem to have had a good day out! :D
http://www.bunkersgolfsociety.com/reddish-vale-2014.html
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There are probably 100,000 golf societies/groups in the UK. I think we have averaged 400 a year over the last 4 years and at least 1000 would be unique. Some societies/group just form for a single celebration though, some meet once a year.
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100,000 is possibly a slight exaggeration, but there are almost certainly more societies, both formal and informal, than golf clubs. Many organise competitive matches on a monthly or even more regular basis, and provide a way into golf for tens of thousands of players who cannot or do not want to make the commitment to joining a club. Active involvement in one or more society coupled with practice at a driving range is a very viable way of organising one's golf.
This is one of the many reasons why traditional club membership is on the decline.
Currently one has to be a member of a recognised golf club to get an official CONGU handicap. This 'closed shop' policy is going to be difficult to justify going forward. That really would be the death-knell for many clubs...
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Duncan,
I'm not sure I know what an 'informal golf society' is (doesn't sound organised), but you make an interesting point, and that is that there are more golfing societies than golf clubs. I had not contemplated this concept. Do you think this is true if you just count the formal golf societies (i.e those with a Secretary, President etc) vs actual golf clubs?
Scott
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Scott,
I'm sure that there are many golf societies who consider themselves to be highly organised but which don't have officers such as Secretary, Captain, or President. Often one guy will do all the organising. possibly with the help of an informal 'committee' who maybe meet in a pub a couple of times a year. All contact is usually done via a website, for which there are various templates available. The Bunkers Golf Society, to which I linked in an earlier post, is a perfect example.
http://www.bunkersgolfsociety.com/
Another, to which I belong, is the County Golf League in Yorkshire. It has maybe 50 golf fanatics as members, hardly any of whom are club members.
http://www.countygolfleague.com/
Typically, the kind of guys attracted to societies such as this are the very people put off by what they perceive to be the archaic structures and petty rules of the traditional golf club. Adrian Stiff has referred to them as the Sex Pistols generation. They love golf, but they don't particularly like golf clubs.
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Here's one to aspire to.
http://www.seniorgolferssociety.com/ (http://www.seniorgolferssociety.com/)
They have a desirable list of venues. playing amongst old friends.
Note the fact they are oversubscribed and you can only enter the ballot 6 times. I first heard about them from a rather nervous chap who was on his 5th life.
Lets just say that if you've played in the Halford Hewitt you shouldn't be short of sponsors.
Tony you are correct, I have just been elected and the fixture list is superb. I now have to accept I’m no longer a “promising youngster” :D
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The Northern California Golf Association has a number of Associate Clubs. These are organized groups of golfers who meet to play together at a variety of golf clubs. They are not affiliated with a particular course. They are roughly the same as the golfing societies in the UK.
https://ncga.org/membership/associate-clubs/
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Many congratulations Mark! Look forward to meeting you at one of the 100-plus SGS matches in 2023. Incidentally the SGS celebrates its centenary in 2026.
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I’d never heard of the SGS until I hosted Nick Bragg at Cavendish last month. He was telling me all about it.
I don’t think my golfing ability is quite up to scratch, although I did beat Nick! 😎
Nick and I incidentally, along with many U.K. GCAers, belong to the Top 100 Golf Society, formed in the aftermath of the pandemic.
Entry is via membership of any golf club featured in the Top 100 in the U.K. We have regular meet ups at each other’s clubs, both informal games and well organised mass get togethers.
The Society has developed organically from a transactional way of accessing expensive courses to a genuine brotherhood of golf fanatics. We have a full quota of members from most Top 100 clubs but one or two gaps in our coverage.
Anyone interested should contact me.